Re: Re: My Experience of Pigment Gallstones

May 14, 2007

You could do a gall bladder/liver flush when you feel better - this will push

all the stones out of your gall bladder and liver.

tina83862 <tina83862@...> wrote: I am amazed at what you have

been through---

did you ever try the epsom salts added with water or I use cranberry

juice? (one big tablespoon added with a cup or so of liquid)

This opens up the ducts (be near a bathroom for most of the day)

This relieves the pain right away and allows the stones to pass--

Empty stomach is best (I do this in the morning if I awake with back

pain).

I also have mostly sludge and it seems to build up. I am sure I have

stones but still have a hard time getting them out.

digestive enzymes have slowed down the formation of stones I thing

beause I have less and less pain over the years now.

Also I do a flush at least every 3 or 4 months.

http://www.curezone.com/cleanse/liver/huldas_recipe.asp

Can't hurt to try this--but you better ask your doctors first---

-- In gallstones , " silversblue3000 " <max@...> wrote:

>

> Hi

> Here in Japan, I was hospitalized after a gallstone blocked the

> common bile duct for 2 weeks. Previously, by the grace of God,

> I had been quite healthy and enjoying life to the fullest, for

> which I am very thankful.

> However, the stone blockage was very painful. I had white stools

and

> very dark urine. The liver panel showed AST/ALT around 300 and

> bilirubin at 6.0! I had severe jaundice, my eyes and skin were

> yellow.

> I took all manner of herbal preparations including " GallCleanse "

> and " gold coin grass " , and eventually, after consuming a glass of

> Italian fizzy water, the pain of the stone suddenly vanished -

> presumably, the fizzy water had generated a pressure in the

> duodenum which opened the sphincter of Oddi, allowing the stone

> to fall out. But my liver was all shot up from the blockage and

all

> the herbs I had thrown at it. Then I developed unremitting

itching

> and stinging all over the body which was not relieved by

scratching.

> I gave up at that point and decided to go to hospital.

> I know it is a " good " hospital and the surgeons are very skilled,

but

> the fact that there is no alternative to surgery in Japan made me

go

> weak at the knees. Also, since I had been told my gallbladder was

> probably " folded over on itself " , I was trying to " undo "

> the supposed adhesion of the gallbladder by doing spinal twists

> which gave me two herniated disks at L2-L3 and L4-L5.

> So I was admitted to the hospital in a wheelchair, and stayed

> bedridden for 1 week.

> I was put on antibiotics for 3 days on a drip with no food in a

ward

> with another person scheduled for GB surgery and others who were

> recovering from pancreas and colon cancer operations, and

> pursuing chemo/radiation treatments. I had a cascade of tests,

> although I was unable to walk - 8 X-rays for the back plus an MRI,

> and an MRCP for the bile ducts. I also had an endoscopic

ultrasound

> showing the gallbladder was full of stones (a horrible procedure),

> but since the bile duct was no longer blocked and the bilirubin

level

> was falling, I was told I could be discharged from the hospital

> without having the GB removed, at least for now.

> They also told me my stones were " pigment " stones of calcium

> bilirubinate, coated with a protective layer of calcium salts.

> I had the " GallCleanse " product at home, but I did not take

> it any more since my liver was all shot up. It also appears that

the

> product cannot dissolve pigment stones, although the

> maker says otherwise (over the phone).

> Internet searches showed the only substances so far known to

> dissolve the hard, brittle pigment stones are the calcium

> chelator, EDTA, and - sodium metaphosphate (toxic, please do

> not attempt to consume that substance).

> In lab tests, the solvent action of EDTA was enhanced with a

> cholesterol dissolvent such as " urso " , and a bile production

> agent like heparin. Alternatively, the action was enhanced with a

> detergent (surfactant) such as " Lubrol " and another bile production

> agent - urea (toxic waste product of metabolism).

> The Japanese authors of these reports from the 1970s " hoped that the

> results would soon lead to a safe oral treatment for gallstones " ,

and

> they also said that it was quite feasible to develop one.

> Why have their wishes and hopes been ignored?

> Actually, I think the EDTA could be replaced by another, safer

> calcium/iron chelator (IP6 - inositol hexaphosphate). The

> " urso " might be replaced by terpenes such as those in peppermint,

> coriander or " GallCleanse " . The surfactant might be Manuka honey.

> The bile production agent could be ginger. I also contacted

> Ayurvedic doctors in Sri Lanka and they recommend consuming

> aloe vera, perhaps it facilitates entry of these agents into the GB.

> They also said that in Sri Lanka, the aim of surgery is now to

remove

> only the stones and leave the GB, whose function is then restored

> with herbs.

> At www.earthclinic.com, I read a story about a Thai village

> where " all the gallstone sufferers got better by consuming

> sesame seeds " . This is possible since sesame seeds are full of

> phosphorus, some of which could end up as metaphosphate

> (although they also have lots of calcium and iron) which might well

> help to dissolve the stones - re the Internet reports - and Thai

> people also have the black pigment stones which are the most

> difficult to get rid of.

> Anyway, I have been taking the IP6 and appear to be getting

> better. The fatigue and nausea which I got in the late afternoon

> and evening seems to be disappearing, however I still vomit

> once in the morning (nothing comes up - I don't know whether

> this is due to the fact that the liver is still damaged, or whether

> the body is still trying to expel the stones).

> The herniated disks are very unstable in the morning and I am

> treating them with Chinese herbal patches, hoping that they will

> improve over the next month.

> If my back gets stronger, I hope to travel to the National

> Gallbladder Center of Long Hua International Hospital, Shanghai, to

> see the Director, Zhu Pei Ting. He has developed several new

herbal

> treatments for pigment and cholesterol gallstones over the last 10

> years which are available only in China. However, the hospital said

> he will not answer the phone (I heard he doesn't speak English) and

> it is necessary to go to Shanghai to be treated by his protocols.

> I apologize for the long post, but I hope it will stimulate

> discussion on the difficulties of dissolving brown and hard black

> pigment stones, which account for 15-20% of gallstones in Western

> countries and 80-100% in Asian peoples.

> My heart goes out to everyone suffering from gallstones and

> all degenerative diseases.

> God Bless,

> Max

>

---------------------------------

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protection.

May 15, 2007

Hi Liz,

I wondered what sorts of food do you eat that creates " sludge " in the liver as

I don't have my gall bladder but I am also diabetic so I do a balancing act all

the time. Just curious, thanks. Sabina ~

Liz Sapareto <lizsapar@...> wrote:

You could do a gall bladder/liver flush when you feel better - this

will push all the stones out of your gall bladder and liver.

tina83862 <tina83862@...> wrote: I am amazed at what you have been

through---

did you ever try the epsom salts added with water or I use cranberry

juice? (one big tablespoon added with a cup or so of liquid)

This opens up the ducts (be near a bathroom for most of the day)

This relieves the pain right away and allows the stones to pass--

Empty stomach is best (I do this in the morning if I awake with back

pain).

I also have mostly sludge and it seems to build up. I am sure I have

stones but still have a hard time getting them out.

digestive enzymes have slowed down the formation of stones I thing

beause I have less and less pain over the years now.

Also I do a flush at least every 3 or 4 months.

http://www.curezone.com/cleanse/liver/huldas_recipe.asp

Can't hurt to try this--but you better ask your doctors first---

-- In gallstones , " silversblue3000 " <max@...> wrote:

>

> Hi

> Here in Japan, I was hospitalized after a gallstone blocked the

> common bile duct for 2 weeks. Previously, by the grace of God,

> I had been quite healthy and enjoying life to the fullest, for

> which I am very thankful.

> However, the stone blockage was very painful. I had white stools

and

> very dark urine. The liver panel showed AST/ALT around 300 and

> bilirubin at 6.0! I had severe jaundice, my eyes and skin were

> yellow.

> I took all manner of herbal preparations including " GallCleanse "

> and " gold coin grass " , and eventually, after consuming a glass of

> Italian fizzy water, the pain of the stone suddenly vanished -

> presumably, the fizzy water had generated a pressure in the

> duodenum which opened the sphincter of Oddi, allowing the stone

> to fall out. But my liver was all shot up from the blockage and

all

> the herbs I had thrown at it. Then I developed unremitting

itching

> and stinging all over the body which was not relieved by

scratching.

> I gave up at that point and decided to go to hospital.

> I know it is a " good " hospital and the surgeons are very skilled,

but

> the fact that there is no alternative to surgery in Japan made me

go

> weak at the knees. Also, since I had been told my gallbladder was

> probably " folded over on itself " , I was trying to " undo "

> the supposed adhesion of the gallbladder by doing spinal twists

> which gave me two herniated disks at L2-L3 and L4-L5.

> So I was admitted to the hospital in a wheelchair, and stayed

> bedridden for 1 week.

> I was put on antibiotics for 3 days on a drip with no food in a

ward

> with another person scheduled for GB surgery and others who were

> recovering from pancreas and colon cancer operations, and

> pursuing chemo/radiation treatments. I had a cascade of tests,

> although I was unable to walk - 8 X-rays for the back plus an MRI,

> and an MRCP for the bile ducts. I also had an endoscopic

ultrasound

> showing the gallbladder was full of stones (a horrible procedure),

> but since the bile duct was no longer blocked and the bilirubin

level

> was falling, I was told I could be discharged from the hospital

> without having the GB removed, at least for now.

> They also told me my stones were " pigment " stones of calcium

> bilirubinate, coated with a protective layer of calcium salts.

> I had the " GallCleanse " product at home, but I did not take

> it any more since my liver was all shot up. It also appears that

the

> product cannot dissolve pigment stones, although the

> maker says otherwise (over the phone).

> Internet searches showed the only substances so far known to

> dissolve the hard, brittle pigment stones are the calcium

> chelator, EDTA, and - sodium metaphosphate (toxic, please do

> not attempt to consume that substance).

> In lab tests, the solvent action of EDTA was enhanced with a

> cholesterol dissolvent such as " urso " , and a bile production

> agent like heparin. Alternatively, the action was enhanced with a

> detergent (surfactant) such as " Lubrol " and another bile production

> agent - urea (toxic waste product of metabolism).

> The Japanese authors of these reports from the 1970s " hoped that the

> results would soon lead to a safe oral treatment for gallstones " ,

and

> they also said that it was quite feasible to develop one.

> Why have their wishes and hopes been ignored?

> Actually, I think the EDTA could be replaced by another, safer

> calcium/iron chelator (IP6 - inositol hexaphosphate). The

> " urso " might be replaced by terpenes such as those in peppermint,

> coriander or " GallCleanse " . The surfactant might be Manuka honey.

> The bile production agent could be ginger. I also contacted

> Ayurvedic doctors in Sri Lanka and they recommend consuming

> aloe vera, perhaps it facilitates entry of these agents into the GB.

> They also said that in Sri Lanka, the aim of surgery is now to

remove

> only the stones and leave the GB, whose function is then restored

> with herbs.

> At www.earthclinic.com, I read a story about a Thai village

> where " all the gallstone sufferers got better by consuming

> sesame seeds " . This is possible since sesame seeds are full of

> phosphorus, some of which could end up as metaphosphate

> (although they also have lots of calcium and iron) which might well

> help to dissolve the stones - re the Internet reports - and Thai

> people also have the black pigment stones which are the most

> difficult to get rid of.

> Anyway, I have been taking the IP6 and appear to be getting

> better. The fatigue and nausea which I got in the late afternoon

> and evening seems to be disappearing, however I still vomit

> once in the morning (nothing comes up - I don't know whether

> this is due to the fact that the liver is still damaged, or whether

> the body is still trying to expel the stones).

> The herniated disks are very unstable in the morning and I am

> treating them with Chinese herbal patches, hoping that they will

> improve over the next month.

> If my back gets stronger, I hope to travel to the National

> Gallbladder Center of Long Hua International Hospital, Shanghai, to

> see the Director, Zhu Pei Ting. He has developed several new

herbal

> treatments for pigment and cholesterol gallstones over the last 10

> years which are available only in China. However, the hospital said

> he will not answer the phone (I heard he doesn't speak English) and

> it is necessary to go to Shanghai to be treated by his protocols.

> I apologize for the long post, but I hope it will stimulate

> discussion on the difficulties of dissolving brown and hard black

> pigment stones, which account for 15-20% of gallstones in Western

> countries and 80-100% in Asian peoples.

> My heart goes out to everyone suffering from gallstones and

> all degenerative diseases.

> God Bless,

> Max

>

---------------------------------

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protection.

May 15, 2007

hi max

glad i read your story. im sorry to hear you went through such an ordeal, but

glad to hear you still have your gallbladder. ive tried some chinese herbs and

homeopathy as well... i am not sure what type of stones i have as these US

doctors aren't very helpful or interested. they see stones, they want to remove

the whole gb.

do keep us posted on your visit to this gallbladder hospital in shanghai. my

father frequently visits there for business and it would be interesting to go

there and see what the doctor has to say. i too want to avoid surgery.

hope all is well,

shefy

---------------------------------

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.

Answers - Check it out.

July 24, 2008

sludge in the liver are unformed gall stones, which are a mix of stuff -

cholesterol, bile salts.

>

> Hi

> Here in Japan, I was hospitalized after a gallstone blocked the

> common bile duct for 2 weeks. Previously, by the grace of God,

> I had been quite healthy and enjoying life to the fullest, for

> which I am very thankful.

> However, the stone blockage was very painful. I had white stools

and

> very dark urine. The liver panel showed AST/ALT around 300 and

> bilirubin at 6.0! I had severe jaundice, my eyes and skin were

> yellow.

> I took all manner of herbal preparations including " GallCleanse "

> and " gold coin grass " , and eventually, after consuming a glass of

> Italian fizzy water, the pain of the stone suddenly vanished -

> presumably, the fizzy water had generated a pressure in the

> duodenum which opened the sphincter of Oddi, allowing the stone

> to fall out. But my liver was all shot up from the blockage and

all

> the herbs I had thrown at it. Then I developed unremitting

itching

> and stinging all over the body which was not relieved by

scratching.

> I gave up at that point and decided to go to hospital.

> I know it is a " good " hospital and the surgeons are very skilled,

but

> the fact that there is no alternative to surgery in Japan made me

go

> weak at the knees. Also, since I had been told my gallbladder was

> probably " folded over on itself " , I was trying to " undo "

> the supposed adhesion of the gallbladder by doing spinal twists

> which gave me two herniated disks at L2-L3 and L4-L5.

> So I was admitted to the hospital in a wheelchair, and stayed

> bedridden for 1 week.

> I was put on antibiotics for 3 days on a drip with no food in a

ward

> with another person scheduled for GB surgery and others who were

> recovering from pancreas and colon cancer operations, and

> pursuing chemo/radiation treatments. I had a cascade of tests,

> although I was unable to walk - 8 X-rays for the back plus an MRI,

> and an MRCP for the bile ducts. I also had an endoscopic

ultrasound

> showing the gallbladder was full of stones (a horrible procedure),

> but since the bile duct was no longer blocked and the bilirubin

level

> was falling, I was told I could be discharged from the hospital

> without having the GB removed, at least for now.

> They also told me my stones were " pigment " stones of calcium

> bilirubinate, coated with a protective layer of calcium salts.

> I had the " GallCleanse " product at home, but I did not take

> it any more since my liver was all shot up. It also appears that

the

> product cannot dissolve pigment stones, although the

> maker says otherwise (over the phone).

> Internet searches showed the only substances so far known to

> dissolve the hard, brittle pigment stones are the calcium

> chelator, EDTA, and - sodium metaphosphate (toxic, please do

> not attempt to consume that substance).

> In lab tests, the solvent action of EDTA was enhanced with a

> cholesterol dissolvent such as " urso " , and a bile production

> agent like heparin. Alternatively, the action was enhanced with a

> detergent (surfactant) such as " Lubrol " and another bile production

> agent - urea (toxic waste product of metabolism).

> The Japanese authors of these reports from the 1970s " hoped that the

> results would soon lead to a safe oral treatment for gallstones " ,

and

> they also said that it was quite feasible to develop one.

> Why have their wishes and hopes been ignored?

> Actually, I think the EDTA could be replaced by another, safer

> calcium/iron chelator (IP6 - inositol hexaphosphate) . The

> " urso " might be replaced by terpenes such as those in peppermint,

> coriander or " GallCleanse " . The surfactant might be Manuka honey.

> The bile production agent could be ginger. I also contacted

> Ayurvedic doctors in Sri Lanka and they recommend consuming

> aloe vera, perhaps it facilitates entry of these agents into the GB.

> They also said that in Sri Lanka, the aim of surgery is now to

remove

> only the stones and leave the GB, whose function is then restored

> with herbs.

> At www.earthclinic. com, I read a story about a Thai village

> where " all the gallstone sufferers got better by consuming

> sesame seeds " . This is possible since sesame seeds are full of

> phosphorus, some of which could end up as metaphosphate

> (although they also have lots of calcium and iron) which might well

> help to dissolve the stones - re the Internet reports - and Thai

> people also have the black pigment stones which are the most

> difficult to get rid of.

> Anyway, I have been taking the IP6 and appear to be getting

> better. The fatigue and nausea which I got in the late afternoon

> and evening seems to be disappearing, however I still vomit

> once in the morning (nothing comes up - I don't know whether

> this is due to the fact that the liver is still damaged, or whether

> the body is still trying to expel the stones).

> The herniated disks are very unstable in the morning and I am

> treating them with Chinese herbal patches, hoping that they will

> improve over the next month.

> If my back gets stronger, I hope to travel to the National

> Gallbladder Center of Long Hua International Hospital, Shanghai, to

> see the Director, Zhu Pei Ting. He has developed several new

herbal

> treatments for pigment and cholesterol gallstones over the last 10

> years which are available only in China. However, the hospital said

> he will not answer the phone (I heard he doesn't speak English) and

> it is necessary to go to Shanghai to be treated by his protocols.

> I apologize for the long post, but I hope it will stimulate

> discussion on the difficulties of dissolving brown and hard black

> pigment stones, which account for 15-20% of gallstones in Western

> countries and 80-100% in Asian peoples.

> My heart goes out to everyone suffering from gallstones and

> all degenerative diseases.

> God Bless,

> Max

>

------------ --------- --------- ---

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protection.

July 28, 2008

So, I am not the only person who suffers from fatigue from the gall stones? I

assumed it was all in my head, but some days I can not get out of my way..

> >

> > Hi

> > Here in Japan, I was hospitalized after a gallstone blocked the

> > common bile duct for 2 weeks. Previously, by the grace of God,

> > I had been quite healthy and enjoying life to the fullest, for

> > which I am very thankful.

> > However, the stone blockage was very painful. I had white stools

> and

> > very dark urine. The liver panel showed AST/ALT around 300 and

> > bilirubin at 6.0! I had severe jaundice, my eyes and skin were

> > yellow.

> > I took all manner of herbal preparations including " GallCleanse "

> > and " gold coin grass " , and eventually, after consuming a glass of

> > Italian fizzy water, the pain of the stone suddenly vanished -

> > presumably, the fizzy water had generated a pressure in the

> > duodenum which opened the sphincter of Oddi, allowing the stone

> > to fall out. But my liver was all shot up from the blockage and

> all

> > the herbs I had thrown at it. Then I developed unremitting

> itching

> > and stinging all over the body which was not relieved by

> scratching.

> > I gave up at that point and decided to go to hospital.

> > I know it is a " good " hospital and the surgeons are very skilled,

> but

> > the fact that there is no alternative to surgery in Japan made me

> go

> > weak at the knees. Also, since I had been told my gallbladder was

> > probably " folded over on itself " , I was trying to " undo "

> > the supposed adhesion of the gallbladder by doing spinal twists

> > which gave me two herniated disks at L2-L3 and L4-L5.

> > So I was admitted to the hospital in a wheelchair, and stayed

> > bedridden for 1 week.

> > I was put on antibiotics for 3 days on a drip with no food in a

> ward

> > with another person scheduled for GB surgery and others who were

> > recovering from pancreas and colon cancer operations, and

> > pursuing chemo/radiation treatments. I had a cascade of tests,

> > although I was unable to walk - 8 X-rays for the back plus an MRI,

> > and an MRCP for the bile ducts. I also had an endoscopic

> ultrasound

> > showing the gallbladder was full of stones (a horrible procedure),

> > but since the bile duct was no longer blocked and the bilirubin

> level

> > was falling, I was told I could be discharged from the hospital

> > without having the GB removed, at least for now.

> > They also told me my stones were " pigment " stones of calcium

> > bilirubinate, coated with a protective layer of calcium salts.

> > I had the " GallCleanse " product at home, but I did not take

> > it any more since my liver was all shot up. It also appears that

> the

> > product cannot dissolve pigment stones, although the

> > maker says otherwise (over the phone).

> > Internet searches showed the only substances so far known to

> > dissolve the hard, brittle pigment stones are the calcium

> > chelator, EDTA, and - sodium metaphosphate (toxic, please do

> > not attempt to consume that substance).

> > In lab tests, the solvent action of EDTA was enhanced with a

> > cholesterol dissolvent such as " urso " , and a bile production

> > agent like heparin. Alternatively, the action was enhanced with a

> > detergent (surfactant) such as " Lubrol " and another bile production

> > agent - urea (toxic waste product of metabolism).

> > The Japanese authors of these reports from the 1970s " hoped that the

> > results would soon lead to a safe oral treatment for gallstones " ,

> and

> > they also said that it was quite feasible to develop one.

> > Why have their wishes and hopes been ignored?

> > Actually, I think the EDTA could be replaced by another, safer

> > calcium/iron chelator (IP6 - inositol hexaphosphate) . The

> > " urso " might be replaced by terpenes such as those in peppermint,

> > coriander or " GallCleanse " . The surfactant might be Manuka honey.

> > The bile production agent could be ginger. I also contacted

> > Ayurvedic doctors in Sri Lanka and they recommend consuming

> > aloe vera, perhaps it facilitates entry of these agents into the GB.

> > They also said that in Sri Lanka, the aim of surgery is now to

> remove

> > only the stones and leave the GB, whose function is then restored

> > with herbs.

> > At www.earthclinic. com, I read a story about a Thai village

> > where " all the gallstone sufferers got better by consuming

> > sesame seeds " . This is possible since sesame seeds are full of

> > phosphorus, some of which could end up as metaphosphate

> > (although they also have lots of calcium and iron) which might well

> > help to dissolve the stones - re the Internet reports - and Thai

> > people also have the black pigment stones which are the most

> > difficult to get rid of.

> > Anyway, I have been taking the IP6 and appear to be getting

> > better. The fatigue and nausea which I got in the late afternoon

> > and evening seems to be disappearing, however I still vomit

> > once in the morning (nothing comes up - I don't know whether

> > this is due to the fact that the liver is still damaged, or whether

> > the body is still trying to expel the stones).

> > The herniated disks are very unstable in the morning and I am

> > treating them with Chinese herbal patches, hoping that they will

> > improve over the next month.

> > If my back gets stronger, I hope to travel to the National

> > Gallbladder Center of Long Hua International Hospital, Shanghai, to

> > see the Director, Zhu Pei Ting. He has developed several new

> herbal

> > treatments for pigment and cholesterol gallstones over the last 10

> > years which are available only in China. However, the hospital said

> > he will not answer the phone (I heard he doesn't speak English) and

> > it is necessary to go to Shanghai to be treated by his protocols.

> > I apologize for the long post, but I hope it will stimulate

> > discussion on the difficulties of dissolving brown and hard black

> > pigment stones, which account for 15-20% of gallstones in Western

> > countries and 80-100% in Asian peoples.

> > My heart goes out to everyone suffering from gallstones and

> > all degenerative diseases.

> > God Bless,

> > Max

> >

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ---

> Get the free toolbar and rest assured with the added security

of spyware protection.

>

July 29, 2008

Very interesting indeed.

During my last GB attack I was only able to consume sports drink to

rehydrate since I cannot eat because of the bloatedness and the pain. After

that I was able to pass loose green stools and my urine was dark orange.

Would consuming right amounts of sesame oil be good for the GB?

" feb4512 "

<joanlee0107aol (DOT)

com> To

Sent by: gallstones

gallstones@g cc

roups.com

Subject

Re: My Experience of

07/29/2008 01:10 Pigment Gallstones

AM

Please respond to

gallstones@g

roups.com

Wow thanks Max very interesting.

>

> -- In gallstones@gro ups.com, " silversblue3000 " max@ wrote: