cholesterol

November 29, 2004

Pratick,

I believe this is debatable and may be misleading as far as the 'natural'

transfats are concerned. According to Udo Erasmus, (one of the leading

'experts' on fats), meats only contain transfats when the animal has been fed

foods that contain transfats, unless they are dairy animals/foods:

http://www.udoerasmus.com/articles/udo/trans_fats_labelling.htm

However, even the FDA's own site, where they say there are small amounts of

transfats in dairy products, lists butter as containing zero transfats in their

own chart:

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2003/503_fats.html

But, if there are indeed natural transfats, it doesn't sound like there is

enough to worry about.

Carol

and Carol --

All animal products contain a small amount of natually occuring trans fats.

It is not media propaganda.

It is listed in the Nutritional Information on all products, such as butter and

meat.

If you check the listings of common products on the USDA website, it lists trans

fats

too.

My understanding is that those trans fats are different from the artificial

trans fats

created by hydrogenation, but I am not sure exactly what the difference is and

why they

are somehow better.

-Pratick

November 29, 2004

> It may also be true that all meats contain a small (maybe negligible)

amount of trans

> fat.

>

~~~I could go along with you there, but at under .5 gram, I have to

wonder if it's worth worrying about.

Carol

November 29, 2004

This has come up before, butI can't find the post.

Gist of it was that Sally said the transfats naturally occurring in

the beef were not a damaging kind. Or something. Shout out to

Masterjohn...

B.

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:17:17 -0000, <toyotaokiec@...> wrote:

>

> When I first started hearing the mainline press saying that trans

> fats were bad for us, they always ended the article by saying that

> trans fats are found in beef and milk.

>

> :-P

>

> > There are no transfats in meat and butter. Transfats come from man

> > playing around with natural fats, as in hydrogenation, and over

> heating.

> > There are no transfats that are safe.

> > Carol

> >

> > >

> > > While on the subject of cholestrol and trans fat, does anyone

> know how

> > the trans fat

> > > created artifically (hydrogenation) are different from the

> naturally

> > occuring trans fat

> > > in animal products like butter, meat, etc?

> > >

> > > I would like to see something that says both types of trans fats

> are

> > different, and one

> > > causes damage and the other one doesn't.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Pratick

> > >

>

December 2, 2004

From: Lillig [mailto:catzandturtles@...]

we make plans to move... that and somewhere dry... with no mildew...

L. - dreaming of fresh air with no mildew...

Northern NV is rather nice in that regard -- it's most often quite dry, and

sunny, even when it's 20 degrees out...

Although here, like anywhere else, mold / mildew will happen if you have

say, hidden roof leaks into walls... [trying quite hard not to say anything

undeservedly derogatory about certain subcontractors... :-( ]

B.

(a happy refugee from the Gray North Wet)

December 2, 2004

>> B.

(a happy refugee from the Gray North Wet)<<

~~~In defense of the " Gray North Wet " . Seattle and the west side of the

Cascades are often gray, but not so of Eastern Washington. People always seem

to think the whole state is like Seattle, when actually the gray area is smaller

than the larger land area of sunny Eastern Washington! :-)

Carol

December 6, 2004

This is very true, but I love the Gray North Wet!

On that subject, does anyone know of naturopaths in the Puget Sound

area who are sympathetic to Weston Price's work? I am seeing a

naturopath, but she is still in favor of soy and thinks cholesterol

should be lowered with drugs. I would really like to work with

someone more in tune with the way I'm trying to eat.

Thanks,

Ann

Puyallup, WA

>

> >> B.

> (a happy refugee from the Gray North Wet)<<

>

> ~~~In defense of the " Gray North Wet " . Seattle and the west side of

the Cascades are often gray, but not so of Eastern Washington. People

always seem to think the whole state is like Seattle, when actually

the gray area is smaller than the larger land area of sunny Eastern

Washington! :-)

> Carol

>

December 6, 2004

Having come from sunny southern CA, I also love the Gray North Wet! I

have been in Seattle for over 7 years now.

~a

> >

> > >> B.

> > (a happy refugee from the Gray North Wet)<<

> >

> > ~~~In defense of the " Gray North Wet " . Seattle and the west side of

> the Cascades are often gray, but not so of Eastern Washington. People

> always seem to think the whole state is like Seattle, when actually

> the gray area is smaller than the larger land area of sunny Eastern

> Washington! :-)

> > Carol

> >

February 20, 2005

Hi Magda:

I actually did read it a couple years ago, that's why I wasn't worried

about having a heart attack. LOL But since I had never had my

cholesterol checked, I wasn't knowledgeable at all about the actual

numbers--what was considered normal or high or what.

I also read another book by Broda , Hypothyroidism, (I think

it's called) where he discusses the importance of cholesterol and that

misconceptions came when only part of the findings of Rudolph Virchow

was remembered and the other part forgotten. Virchow had demonstrated

that when tissue degenerated, large amounts of cholesterol were

liberated. This fact has been remembered, but something even more

important that Virchow demonstrated was forgotten. He clearly showed

that cholesterol did not cause damage to the tissue but rather was

released as a result of the damage. also gave an example of

cholesterol feeding experiments with dogs. The cholesterol level had

to be raised to 4,000 and higher before atherosclerosis developed. So

I wasn't really worried about my heart or anything, although I had no

idea what " high " was for people. I remembered that did mention

that high cholesterol interfered with the thyroid, and I don't want

that. Ack! And I've also heard that cholesterol is elevated when

lots of toxins are present. And I didn't want that either! LOL When

my doc called me, it was like an emergency or something. LOL That's

what got me alittle flustered cuz I had No idea what high was. LOL

But thanks to you guys, I can be calm when I see her this week.

Oh, this reminds me, I briefly skimmed over a book called The Heart by

Matthias Rath, M.D. He writes that arteriosclerosis and

atherosclerosis is caused by a lack of vit C and that cardiac problems

like heart attacks and strokes are actually an early form of scurvy.

Any thoughts on this? I know I've had a few running through my mind

and may be the answer to some questions I've had about the Eskimo.

Marla

>

> Marla,

> If you haven't already, you might want to read " Cholesterol myths "

> by Uffe Ravnskov (sp?). I'm almost done with my copy.... what

> fantastic and eye-opening reading!

> Magda

May 22, 2006

--- In , Short <ottawan50@...>

wrote:

Hi :

Well since you ask (!):

" Is it better to be measured as healthy even if you feel lousy? " .

Gosh, what an interesting question. You have to find a way to

measure AND feel healthy, imo. What kind of foods do you eat?

Meats? Dairy? Fats? Potato chips? .............

" Are there a lot of people who do not feel good with statins? " .

Dunno, but there are quite a few different statins. See if another

leaves you feeling better, as well as measured better.

" What are the measuring units that the doctor gave me? "

Millimoles per litre probably. For cholesterol the conversion fator

is 38.45, FROM MEMORY. So 6.6 is 250 in US units, approximately. I

think the conversion factor is different for triglycerides. Try a

Google seach using the terms " conversion factor triglyceride " .

" Is my cholesterol borderline or worse? "

It is worse than borderline, but not dreadful, imo. Find a statin

that is better for you. Walk an extra mile a day. Examine very

critically everything you eat. Check a database for the fat content

of everything you put in your mouth. You **may** be surprised at the

fat content of some of the things you didn't realize contained any

fat at all. And enter everything you eat for at least a full week,

and preferably for a full month, into nutrient tracking software to

see what nutrient deficiencies you have. And fix those you find.

" If I pushed the calorie restriction in a disciplined way would I

probably get normal cholesterol? "

It improves with most people. Very nearly everything improves with

CRON. What is your current caloric intake? What is your age? What

is your BMI? What is your ratio of waist to hip (butt)

circumferences? My advice, fwiw, is that if you have room to lose

weight then drop your caloric intake by just 100 calories a day, and

watch what happens. Then in six months edge down another 100

calories until you reach some of the recognized desirable body

metrics. (But if your BMI is already 20 then restriction of calories

is not the issue).

All the above just my opinion in response to your request for

suggestions. I do NOT have a medical qualification.

Rodney.

May 22, 2006

Short wrote:

>

> I think I am borderline CR. I have never weighed less since the age

> of 17. At 54 I still have blood pressure and cholesterol problems. I do

> not really have the discipline or confidence to push the calorie

> restriction further.

> I am not sure about my cholesterol. I was taking a statin drug but

> did not feel well. I felt weak and stopped and felt better. However my

> blood work suggests that maybe that was a mistake. With statins my total

> cholesterol was 4 now 6.6. My doctor was especially concerned with my

> ldl, from 2.2 to 4.7. My high density after leaving statins went from

> 1.35 to 1.34, almost the same. The ratio deteriorated from 3 to 4.9. My

> tryglycerides might have improved from 1.35 to 1.3 after leaving

> statins, not too significant. I am confused because I do not know the

> measures of the numbers, it's a different system than the measuring

> units in the United States. Also I am left with 3 questions, is it

> better to be measured as healthy even if you feel lousy, are there a lot

> of people who do not feel good with statins? What are the measuring

> units that the doctor gave me? and is my cholesterol borderline or

> worse? If I pushed the calorie restriction in a disciplined way would I

> probably get normal cholesterol? In any case I have no doubt that I am

> healthier at this lower weight.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

General medical questions, especially about medication for a diagnosed

condition is best discussed with a real medical professional.

That caveat out of the way, some (most?) statins have known side

effects. You should have a list of them provided with the medication at

time of purchase. There is no free lunch in nature either.

Cleaning up your diet and exercise will improve most common " lifestyle "

maladies but there are also hereditary (genetic) predispositions for

high BP and high cholesterol that may need to be chronically treated.

If you don't like your doctors advice, find another doctor. We (I?) can

only offer some basic nutritional advice.

JR

May 23, 2006

--- In , Short <ottawan50@...>

wrote:

> I think I am borderline CR. I have never weighed less since the

age of 17. At 54 I still have blood pressure and cholesterol problems.

I do not really have the discipline or confidence to push the calorie

restriction further.

> I am not sure about my cholesterol. I was taking a statin drug

but did not feel well. I felt weak and stopped and felt better.

However my blood work suggests that maybe that was a mistake. With

statins my total cholesterol was 4 now 6.6. My doctor was especially

concerned with my ldl, from 2.2 to 4.7. My high density after leaving

statins went from 1.35 to 1.34, almost the same. The ratio

deteriorated from 3 to 4.9. My tryglycerides might have improved from

1.35 to 1.3 after leaving statins, not too significant. I am confused

because I do not know the measures of the numbers, it's a different

system than the measuring units in the United States. Also I am left

with 3 questions, is it better to be measured as healthy even if you

feel lousy, are there a lot of people who do not feel good with

statins? What are the measuring units that the doctor gave me? and is

my cholesterol borderline or worse? If I pushed the calorie

restriction in a disciplined way would I probably

> get normal cholesterol? In any case I have no doubt that I am

healthier at this lower weight.

==

,

High cholesterol levels may be caused by familial

hypercholesterolemia, but more frequently, high cholesterol is caused

by a diet deficient in omega-6 fatty acids, by consumption of

partially hydrogenated fats and saturated fats, and by lack of soluble

fiber to bind bile acids in the intestine.

Statins block hydroxy-methylglutaryl-coenzyme A reductase which

produces cholesterol in the liver. However, they also interfere with

Coenzyme Q10, and can cause severe muscle problems. Many doctors are

too quick to give you a pill and are not familiar with fat metabolism,

the Hegsted equation, or the Mensink and Katan formulas.

CR can help, but changing the balance of the fatty acids in your diet

and increasing sources of soluble fiber is probably more effective.

Look at my web pages on cholesterol:

http://www.scientificpsychic.com/health/cholesterol.html

Tony

May 23, 2006

Hi :

The conversion factor for cholesterol data is 38.61.

The conversion factor for triglycerides is 88.56.

Rodney.

>

> Hi :

>

> Well since you ask (!):

>

> " Is it better to be measured as healthy even if you feel lousy? " .

>

> Gosh, what an interesting question. You have to find a way to

> measure AND feel healthy, imo. What kind of foods do you eat?

> Meats? Dairy? Fats? Potato chips? .............

>

> " Are there a lot of people who do not feel good with statins? " .

>

> Dunno, but there are quite a few different statins. See if another

> leaves you feeling better, as well as measured better.

>

> " What are the measuring units that the doctor gave me? "

>

> Millimoles per litre probably. For cholesterol the conversion

fator

> is 38.45, FROM MEMORY. So 6.6 is 250 in US units, approximately.

I

> think the conversion factor is different for triglycerides. Try a

> Google seach using the terms " conversion factor triglyceride " .

>

> " Is my cholesterol borderline or worse? "

>

> It is worse than borderline, but not dreadful, imo. Find a statin

> that is better for you. Walk an extra mile a day. Examine very

> critically everything you eat. Check a database for the fat

content

> of everything you put in your mouth. You **may** be surprised at

the

> fat content of some of the things you didn't realize contained any

> fat at all. And enter everything you eat for at least a full week,

> and preferably for a full month, into nutrient tracking software to

> see what nutrient deficiencies you have. And fix those you find.

>

> " If I pushed the calorie restriction in a disciplined way would I

> probably get normal cholesterol? "

>

> It improves with most people. Very nearly everything improves with

> CRON. What is your current caloric intake? What is your age?

What

> is your BMI? What is your ratio of waist to hip (butt)

> circumferences? My advice, fwiw, is that if you have room to lose

> weight then drop your caloric intake by just 100 calories a day,

and

> watch what happens. Then in six months edge down another 100

> calories until you reach some of the recognized desirable body

> metrics. (But if your BMI is already 20 then restriction of

calories

> is not the issue).

>

> All the above just my opinion in response to your request for

> suggestions. I do NOT have a medical qualification.

>

> Rodney.

>

May 23, 2006

Hi All,

http://www.reducetriglycerides.com/reader_triglycerides_conversion.htm is quite

informational and provides glucose data too.

--- Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote:

> The conversion factor for cholesterol data is 38.61.

>

> The conversion factor for triglycerides is 88.56.

-- Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...

__________________________________________________

May 23, 2006

My cholesterol on the Mediterranean diet was 236. On meat (any kind), low

glycemic index vegetables, some fruit, dairy and nuts and chocolate, is 176.

Never much on trans fats, but I don't worry about eggs or saturated fats.

From: " citpeks " <citpeks@...>

High cholesterol levels may be caused by familial

hypercholesterolemia, but more frequently, high cholesterol is caused

by a diet deficient in omega-6 fatty acids, by consumption of

partially hydrogenated fats and saturated fats, and by lack of soluble

fiber to bind bile acids in the intestine.

_________________________________________________________________

Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!

http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

May 24, 2006

> My cholesterol on the Mediterranean diet was 236. On meat (any

> kind), low glycemic index vegetables, some fruit, dairy and nuts

> and chocolate, is 176. Never much on trans fats, but I don't

> worry about eggs or saturated fats.

>

Olive oil, which is common in the Mediterranean diet, has a reputation

as a " healthy " oil, but it does not reduce cholesterol because it is

mostly monounsaturated oil with approximately equal parts of saturated

fat and polyunsaturated fat. Nuts, like walnuts and sunflower seeds,

do lower cholesterol because they are high in polyunsaturated fats.

The publication below has some details.

Tony

Pedersen A, Baumstark MW, Marckmann P, Gylling H, Sandstrom B., An

olive oil-rich diet results in higher concentrations of LDL

cholesterol and a higher number of LDL subfraction particles than

rapeseed oil and sunflower oil diets. J Lipid Res. 2000

Dec;41(12):1901-11. PMID: 11108723

May 24, 2006

Interesting. What do you think accounts for the fact that I have lower

cholesterol now that I use butter, 3 eggs a day, and saturated fats in

cheese and meat, (but no grains when eating fats) than I did on the various

oils, with grain products. That is the major way my diet has changed. I

have always eaten nuts.

Plus, I gained weight on the Mediterranean diet.

From: " citpeks " <citpeks@...>

Reply-

Subject: [ ] Re: cholesterol

Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 02:19:55 -0000

> My cholesterol on the Mediterranean diet was 236. On meat (any

> kind), low glycemic index vegetables, some fruit, dairy and nuts

> and chocolate, is 176. Never much on trans fats, but I don't

> worry about eggs or saturated fats.

>

Olive oil, which is common in the Mediterranean diet, has a reputation

as a " healthy " oil, but it does not reduce cholesterol because it is

mostly monounsaturated oil with approximately equal parts of saturated

fat and polyunsaturated fat. Nuts, like walnuts and sunflower seeds,

do lower cholesterol because they are high in polyunsaturated fats.

The publication below has some details.

Tony

Pedersen A, Baumstark MW, Marckmann P, Gylling H, Sandstrom B., An

olive oil-rich diet results in higher concentrations of LDL

cholesterol and a higher number of LDL subfraction particles than

rapeseed oil and sunflower oil diets. J Lipid Res. 2000

Dec;41(12):1901-11. PMID: 11108723

May 24, 2006

Hi Kayce:

Well if you are interested in data for DEATHS from heart disease,

rather than biomarkers of risk, the japanese diet is, by far,

superior to the 'Mediterranean Diet'.

But at lease some of the japanese benefit is no doubt attributable to

the consumption of fewer calories.

Rodney.

--- In , " kayce cover " <k_cover@...>

wrote:

>

> Interesting. What do you think accounts for the fact that I have

lower

> cholesterol now that I use butter, 3 eggs a day, and saturated fats

in

> cheese and meat, (but no grains when eating fats) than I did on

the various

> oils, with grain products. That is the major way my diet has

changed. I

> have always eaten nuts.

>

> Plus, I gained weight on the Mediterranean diet.

>

> From: " citpeks " <citpeks@...>

> Reply-

>

> Subject: [ ] Re: cholesterol

> Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 02:19:55 -0000

>

> --- In , " kayce cover " <k_cover@>

wrote:

> > My cholesterol on the Mediterranean diet was 236. On meat (any

> > kind), low glycemic index vegetables, some fruit, dairy and nuts

> > and chocolate, is 176. Never much on trans fats, but I don't

> > worry about eggs or saturated fats.

> >

>

> Olive oil, which is common in the Mediterranean diet, has a

reputation

> as a " healthy " oil, but it does not reduce cholesterol because it is

> mostly monounsaturated oil with approximately equal parts of

saturated

> fat and polyunsaturated fat. Nuts, like walnuts and sunflower

seeds,

> do lower cholesterol because they are high in polyunsaturated fats.

> The publication below has some details.

>

> Tony

>

> Pedersen A, Baumstark MW, Marckmann P, Gylling H, Sandstrom B., An

> olive oil-rich diet results in higher concentrations of LDL

> cholesterol and a higher number of LDL subfraction particles than

> rapeseed oil and sunflower oil diets. J Lipid Res. 2000

> Dec;41(12):1901-11. PMID: 11108723

>

May 24, 2006

What's your point? The japanese eat meat and dairy as well as fish. On

the other hand some would say that their's is a med diet in disguise

given the fact that lard, their consumption of which being

surprisingly high, is made up of 47% oleic acid. Is there less fish in

the med diet? Could it be that dairy and meat have protective effects?

We know that dairy is very positively associated with good health

status in japanese centenarians.

" The survival rate for those preferring dairy products was the highest

of the four dietary patterns... A dietary

pattern preferring dairy products was associated with increased

survival in Tokyo-area centenarians " .

PMID: 12887160

Kind regards,

> > > My cholesterol on the Mediterranean diet was 236. On meat (any

> > > kind), low glycemic index vegetables, some fruit, dairy and nuts

> > > and chocolate, is 176. Never much on trans fats, but I don't

> > > worry about eggs or saturated fats.

> > >

> >

> > Olive oil, which is common in the Mediterranean diet, has a

> reputation

> > as a " healthy " oil, but it does not reduce cholesterol because it is

> > mostly monounsaturated oil with approximately equal parts of

> saturated

> > fat and polyunsaturated fat. Nuts, like walnuts and sunflower

> seeds,

> > do lower cholesterol because they are high in polyunsaturated fats.

> > The publication below has some details.

> >

> > Tony

> >

> > Pedersen A, Baumstark MW, Marckmann P, Gylling H, Sandstrom B., An

> > olive oil-rich diet results in higher concentrations of LDL

> > cholesterol and a higher number of LDL subfraction particles than

> > rapeseed oil and sunflower oil diets. J Lipid Res. 2000

> > Dec;41(12):1901-11. PMID: 11108723

> >

May 24, 2006

>

> Interesting. What do you think accounts for the fact that I have

> lower cholesterol now that I use butter, 3 eggs a day, and

> saturated fats in

> cheese and meat, (but no grains when eating fats) than I did on

> the various

> oils, with grain products. That is the major way my diet

> has changed. I have always eaten nuts.

>

> Plus, I gained weight on the Mediterranean diet.

>

Kayce,

Carbohydrates in excess of those needed for energy or to replenish

glycogen are converted to fat by a process called " de novo " synthesis

of fatty acids. The result is palimitic acid, which is a saturated

fatty acid that increases cholesterol. So, if you are gaining weight,

the excess carbohydrates will increase your cholesterol.

In contrast, eating fat (beef tallow or lard) provides ~43% oleic acid

(monounsaturated fat) and ~25% palmitic acid. You are eating

proportionally fewer calories of cholesterol-raising fatty acids by

eating animal fats.

Below are some references that tackle this issue.

Tony

===

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed & pubmedid=1052504\

7

J Clin Invest. 1999 October 15; 104(8): 1087–1096.

Effects of a low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet on VLDL-triglyceride

assembly, production, and clearance

J. Parks,

Abstract

Low-fat, high-carbohydrate (LF/HC) diets commonly elevate plasma

triglyceride (TG) concentrations, but the kinetic mechanisms

responsible for this effect remain uncertain. Subjects with low TG

(normolipidemic [NL]) and those with moderately elevated TG

(hypertriglyceridemic [HTG]) were studied on both a control and an

LF/HC diet. We measured VLDL particle and TG transport rates, plasma

nonesterified fatty acid (NEFA) flux, and sources of fatty acids used

for the assembly of VLDL-TG. The LF/HC diet resulted in a 60%

elevation in TG, a 37% reduction in VLDL-TG clearance, and an 18%

reduction in whole-body fat oxidation, but no significant change in

VLDL-apo B or VLDL-TG secretion rates. Significant elevations in

fasting apo B-48 concentrations were observed on the LF/HC in HTG

subjects. In both groups, fasting de novo lipogenesis was low

regardless of diet. The NEFA pool contributed the great majority of

fatty acids to VLDL-TG in NL subjects on both diets, whereas in HTG

subjects, the contribution of NEFA was somewhat lower overall and was

reduced further in individuals on the LF/HC diet. Between 13% and 29%

of VLDL-TG fatty acids remained unaccounted for by the sum of de novo

lipogenesis and plasma NEFA input in HTG subjects. We conclude that

(a) whole-food LF/HC diets reduce VLDL-TG clearance and do not

increase VLDL-TG secretion or de novo lipogenesis; ( sources of

fatty acids for assembly of VLDL-TG differ between HTG and NL subjects

chylomicron remnants in the fasting state on LF/HC diets may

contribute to elevated TG levels by competing for VLDL-TG lipolysis

and by providing a source of fatty acids for hepatic VLDL-TG

synthesis; and (d) the assembly, production, and clearance of elevated

plasma VLDL-TG in response to LF/HC diets therefore differ from those

for elevated TG on higher-fat diets.

===

Dietary omega-3 fatty acids prevent carbohydrate-induced

hypertriglyceridemia.

WS, Connor WE, Inkeles SB, Illingworth DR.

Dietary fish oils rich in omega-3 fatty acids are remarkably

hypotriglyceridemic in both normal and hypertriglyceridemic subjects.

This present study was designed to examine the hypothesis that dietary

fish oils could prevent the usual sharp increase in plasma

triglyceride and very low-density lipoprotein (VLDL) levels that occur

physiologically after the induction by a high-carbohydrate diet.

PMID: 6493044

===

May 24, 2006

My point, , was that for those interested in minimizing CHD,

since deaths from CHD in Japan are about 75% less (~6% of deaths)

than in the Mediterranean countries, it might be a good idea to pay

more attention to what is eaten in Japan, and less to the standard

mediterranean diet. While not forgetting that compared with many

others the japanese are also more calorically restricted.

By the way, where do you get your information about lard? I ask

because here a couple of years ago a resident of Japan went into

considerable detail about the foods consumed in Japan, and emphasized

that all fats/oils used were VEGETABLE oils, with no particular

concern about the vegetable source from which it was extracted. This

japanese resident made no mention at all of lard, although pork was

on the list of meats, but not in large amounts.

She also never mentioned dairy products. Nor have I ever seen milk

products (milk, cream, yoghurt, cheese) in a japanese grocery store

here. Do we have any information about how much in the way of milk

products is consumed in Japan? My *impression* is that it is not

much, but that impression could be changed by some tangible data on

the subject.

As you will see when you visit a japanese grocery store, there is a

multitude of differences between japanese and western eating habits.

I do not know which factor accounts for their much reduced rate of

CHD deaths.

Rodney.

> > > > My cholesterol on the Mediterranean diet was 236. On meat

(any

> > > > kind), low glycemic index vegetables, some fruit, dairy and

nuts

> > > > and chocolate, is 176. Never much on trans fats, but I don't

> > > > worry about eggs or saturated fats.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Olive oil, which is common in the Mediterranean diet, has a

> > reputation

> > > as a " healthy " oil, but it does not reduce cholesterol because

it is

> > > mostly monounsaturated oil with approximately equal parts of

> > saturated

> > > fat and polyunsaturated fat. Nuts, like walnuts and sunflower

> > seeds,

> > > do lower cholesterol because they are high in polyunsaturated

fats.

> > > The publication below has some details.

> > >

> > > Tony

> > >

> > > Pedersen A, Baumstark MW, Marckmann P, Gylling H, Sandstrom B.,

An

> > > olive oil-rich diet results in higher concentrations of LDL

> > > cholesterol and a higher number of LDL subfraction particles

than

> > > rapeseed oil and sunflower oil diets. J Lipid Res. 2000

> > > Dec;41(12):1901-11. PMID: 11108723

> > >

May 25, 2006

Hi All,

What is all your point? The paper

http://www.jlr.org/cgi/content/full/41/12/1901

starting the thread appears to have found that rapeseed = canola oil with its

high

concentrations of alpha-linolenic acid seemed to fare best.

--- Séguin <patrickseguin@...> wrote:

> What's your point? The japanese eat meat and dairy as well as fish. On

> the other hand some would say that their's is a med diet in disguise

> given the fact that lard, their consumption of which being

> surprisingly high, is made up of 47% oleic acid. Is there less fish in

> the med diet? Could it be that dairy and meat have protective effects?

> We know that dairy is very positively associated with good health

> status in japanese centenarians.

>

> " The survival rate for those preferring dairy products was the highest

> of the four dietary patterns... A dietary

> pattern preferring dairy products was associated with increased

> survival in Tokyo-area centenarians " .

>

> PMID: 12887160

> > > Pedersen A, Baumstark MW, Marckmann P, Gylling H, Sandstrom B., An

> > > olive oil-rich diet results in higher concentrations of LDL

> > > cholesterol and a higher number of LDL subfraction particles than

> > > rapeseed oil and sunflower oil diets. J Lipid Res. 2000

> > > Dec;41(12):1901-11. PMID: 11108723

-- Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...

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May 25, 2006

Thanks Tony and Rodney. I appreciate your input.

Kayce

From: " citpeks " <citpeks@...>

Reply-

Subject: [ ] Re: cholesterol

Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 19:17:42 -0000