Re: true flush efficacy?

[Guest guest]

Hi Greg, This is a good question. It's one that has been asked many

times in the past several years on and off this discussion group.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this your question: " Are these

really stones that my body produces and are removed by the flush, or

are they produced only by the flush " ? Lot's of opinions and I can't

once and for all answer that. I've made some observations that I'll

pass on and you can take them for what they are worth to you.

Facts:

1) Lots of people do the flush several times the same way and get

decreasing stones over a period of time (same ingredients each time

and the same body etc.)

2) Lots of people get rid of serious health problems after flushing

several times (8-20 times). These healings can't be ascribed to

placebo. If they can be then I'll take this kind of placebo any day

over drugs or surgery, and I won't need expensive medical insurance to

pay for it.

3) The green stones are identical in look, feel, and lab analysis to

the cholesterol stones that are removed from the gall bladder during

surgery (when no flushes were ever done). The other color stones are

identical to the other many kind of stones formed in the gall bladder

(white, black, brown, etc.).

Does the flush form at least some stones or accelerate the formation

of stones? I don't know for sure, but I'm convinced that if the flush

forms stones, that's a real good thing for my health. The formation

of stones is probably the bodies attempt to encapsulate toxic material

to keep it out of the bodies tissues until it can get rid of it. A

flush forming the toxic stones and getting rid of it at the same time

would be a great thing if it happens. I believe based on the

different accounts that I've experienced and read about that our

bodies definitely form stones that the flushes remove. Whether or not

the flushes form any stones, when our bodies get cleaned out of what

ever is being expelled when our body makes stones we quit making

stones. I'm all for expelling the bad stuff from my body whether some

stones are made during the flush or not. I'm all for getting better

whether any placebo is involved or not.

If I were you, I'd keep flushing and address my diet to address the

toxin issue. When your body gets rid of whatever it is getting rid of

with your stones you'll stop making the stones before and during the

flushes. The numerous stones you are passing each time you flush is

an indicator of your toxin load. It says you are still very toxic.

When your toxic load goes down, your stone formation will go down, and

your problems will get better (assuming you are getting the nutrients

you need to rebuild your health).

Best Regards,

Vince

>

> Okay, I have done the flush near 20 times in the past year and I am

> not convinced it is really doing anything at all. I continue because

> I do not want to have my gallbladder removed and all over the net the

> flush is heavily praised. But each time, I pass enormous amounts of

> green stones and often times they are quite large. What really makes

> me question where these stones are formed is the fact that sometimes I

> pass stones that are near an inch in diameter.

> Assuming the bile ducts can open to that size, it seems odd that the

> stones seem to break apart rather easily when handled. It seems like

> they would have just as easily broken up in the passing through the

> hepatic ducts. Unless they were formed in the intestines in which

> case there is plenty of room to form such massive stones.

> Also, there have been instances where I have done multiple flushes

> within a small period of time, and without fail, I get dozens of

> massive stones each time. For passing what seems like a combined mass

> of stones equal to or greater than the liver itself, my problems are

> not much better if any at all. How much of this is placebo effect?

>

> greg

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Vince,

Good response!

Very well worded my friend. I would rather benefit from the placebo

effect as well considering how dangerous, toxic and expensive drugs

are! The mind is a very powerful thing the autonomic parts of the

brain can fix many many things so that is what the placebo effect

is! Researchers try to rule out a placebo's effects during studies.

But whats happening all the time is that people are healing without

spending money and without toxic exposure to chemicals. So I LOVE

the placebo effect!

However, of course the placebo effect is playing a role here with

every flush but I think in addition to the placebo there is

physiological benefits from the direct action of the flush

ingredients themselves.

And I totally agree with the comment that Vince made about the body

potentially using stones to encapsulate dangerous chemicals and

biotoxins maybe inside of the stones to eliminate them from the body

safely. Maybe we are even getting out heavy metals?? Who knows? All

I know is i feel a bit better with every flush and thats all that

counts no matter what the method of healing is!

Brad

> >

> > Okay, I have done the flush near 20 times in the past year and I

am

> > not convinced it is really doing anything at all. I continue

because

> > I do not want to have my gallbladder removed and all over the net

the

> > flush is heavily praised. But each time, I pass enormous amounts

of

> > green stones and often times they are quite large. What really

makes

> > me question where these stones are formed is the fact that

sometimes I

> > pass stones that are near an inch in diameter.

> > Assuming the bile ducts can open to that size, it seems odd that

the

> > stones seem to break apart rather easily when handled. It seems

like

> > they would have just as easily broken up in the passing through

the

> > hepatic ducts. Unless they were formed in the intestines in which

> > case there is plenty of room to form such massive stones.

> > Also, there have been instances where I have done multiple flushes

> > within a small period of time, and without fail, I get dozens of

> > massive stones each time. For passing what seems like a combined

mass

> > of stones equal to or greater than the liver itself, my problems

are

> > not much better if any at all. How much of this is placebo

effect?

> >

> > greg

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Vince, that is a pretty comprehensive answer. In the past I

have spent hours on the cure zone list reading arguments as to whether

or not it is real. I have come across no conclusive evidence, as the

few web analysis documents I did come across saying the stones were

real, were later proven to be forgeries. Also, the color of the

stones seems to slightly very between light and dark green depending

on the brand of olive oil I use.

It is just a little hard to buy after 20 flushes with no noticeable

relief. Especially when the combined mass of my stones in my last

flush alone seems like it would almost equal the size of my fist.

There is obviously a severe contraction of the gall bladder, as one

would expect when ingesting such a large amount of fat at one sitting.

And I even believe the bile released might be somewhat toxic and

therefore allow the body to rid itself of some crap. But I just

wonder if it is worth it to put myself through this every week or 2.

I guess what speaks loudest is the testimonials, and there are alot of

" I feel betters " which is great, but has anyone completely solved acid

reflux with this, or even gall bladder pain? Here's a little info

from the other side

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/flushes.html

[Guest guest]

I don't know what makes yellow stones, Amber. What ever your body is

getting rid of by making the stones is what determines the color and

consitency.

Best Regards,

Vince

>

> What about yellow stones? For over a year after my 3 purges, I

passed a few green but hundreds of yellow ones with white speckles .

>

> Amber

>

>

>

>

> 3) The green stones are identical in look, feel, and lab analysis to

> the cholesterol stones that are removed from the gall bladder during

> surgery (when no flushes were ever done). The other color stones are

> identical to the other many kind of stones formed in the gall bladder

> (white, black, brown, etc.).

>

>

> .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I can understand your frustration and dissapointment if you've done 20

flushes and have no sign of relief from your problems or slowing of

stone formation. I'd keep up the flushing, but not every week or two.

You have to treat getting more healthy like running a marathon (so

I've been told, I've never been that ambitious myself). You don't try

to run the marathon all at once quickly. You take one step at a time

and keep going at a reasonable rate that allows you to complete the

race. I'd stop flushing until you get energy back after each flush.

If that's a month instead of two weeks wait a month. Keep ingesting

the good oils and good foods. Eliminate or reduce all processed

foods. This is a life long process.

Sorry about not clicking on your link. The quackwatch address tells

me not to waste my time on the info provided. They are totally

unreliable and of no value to truth seekers. They are worse than

unreliable, they are totally untruthful in their effort to denegrate

every health enhancement which isn't drugs or surgeries. Their

favorite insult is " it hasn't been proven by scientific studies

[meaning multimillion dollar, double blind, placebo controlled

studies] to be effective " . Neither has water been scientifically

proven to rehydrate our body tissues, but we drink it anyway. Who or

what company would waste millions of dollars to prove something that

wounldn't allow them to recup their investment and make a profit?

Same with health care. The absurd insinuation (and non-scientific in

the true sense of science) is that something can't work to make us

healthy until the companies with all the money and studies tell us

they work. I've got an idea. If something works for lots of people

without hurting them, lets believe it until the companies with all the

money to study it prove that it doesn't work.

There are also no scientific studies which prove the flushes are

harmful and/or not beneficial. So because of this, my own experience,

and the experiences of countless others, I'll believe the fulshes are

beneficial until multi-million dollar studies prove other wise.

Is there some small danger doing the flushes? Yes. Is there danger

not doing the flushes? Absolutely. Is there danger driving our cars?

Yes, and we do it because we assess the risk and have decided that

the benefit far outweighs the risk. We pick our dangers. We don't

totally avoid danger in any area of our lives.

I choose to flush in order to enjoy the benefits which far outweigh

the small risk I take. That is a choice everyone must make for

themselves.

I wish you the best in evaluating all the information out there to

decide what's best for you. I'd encourage you to consider the source

of your information though to ensure it is all accurate.

Best Regards,

Vince

>

> Thanks Vince, that is a pretty comprehensive answer. In the past I

> have spent hours on the cure zone list reading arguments as to whether

> or not it is real. I have come across no conclusive evidence, as the

> few web analysis documents I did come across saying the stones were

> real, were later proven to be forgeries. Also, the color of the

> stones seems to slightly very between light and dark green depending

> on the brand of olive oil I use.

> It is just a little hard to buy after 20 flushes with no noticeable

> relief. Especially when the combined mass of my stones in my last

> flush alone seems like it would almost equal the size of my fist.

> There is obviously a severe contraction of the gall bladder, as one

> would expect when ingesting such a large amount of fat at one sitting.

> And I even believe the bile released might be somewhat toxic and

> therefore allow the body to rid itself of some crap. But I just

> wonder if it is worth it to put myself through this every week or 2.

> I guess what speaks loudest is the testimonials, and there are alot of

> " I feel betters " which is great, but has anyone completely solved acid

> reflux with this, or even gall bladder pain? Here's a little info

> from the other side

>

> http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/flushes.html

>

[Guest guest]

common sense tells me you are doingb the right thing. your liver must have been

a mess and is getting better. I would think in time and after enough flushes,

your condition will improve. I would also guess it already has and you are not

acknowledging it.

dreaminginnoother <dreaminginnoother@...> wrote: Okay, I have

done the flush near 20 times in the past year and I am

not convinced it is really doing anything at all. I continue because

I do not want to have my gallbladder removed and all over the net the

flush is heavily praised. But each time, I pass enormous amounts of

green stones and often times they are quite large. What really makes

me question where these stones are formed is the fact that sometimes I

pass stones that are near an inch in diameter.

Assuming the bile ducts can open to that size, it seems odd that the

stones seem to break apart rather easily when handled. It seems like

they would have just as easily broken up in the passing through the

hepatic ducts. Unless they were formed in the intestines in which

case there is plenty of room to form such massive stones.

Also, there have been instances where I have done multiple flushes

within a small period of time, and without fail, I get dozens of

massive stones each time. For passing what seems like a combined mass

of stones equal to or greater than the liver itself, my problems are

not much better if any at all. How much of this is placebo effect?

greg

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

I did 3 flushes and my N.D. said to stop and let my GB rest. I also passed

stones about 3/4 inch. My studies have shown that the purpose of the flushes is

to soften the stones to allow them to pass. I passed several stones every day

for a YEAR!

Amber

I have done the flush near 20 times in the past year

But each time, I pass enormous amounts of

green stones and often times they are quite large. What really makes

me question where these stones are formed is the fact that sometimes I

pass stones that are near an inch in diameter.

Assuming the bile ducts can open to that size, it seems odd that the

stones seem to break apart rather easily when handled.

greg

.