Enzyme question

November 17, 2001

> My son has been on enzymes one week on Thursday. Last night,

> he had a bad time with diarrhea. I am very worried about that

> because of his rectal prolapse history. I also started him on

> calcium and magnesium supplement yesterday.

I tried 4-5 different cal/mag supplements before I found one that my

son tolerated without diarrhea. Plus the fact you just started that

one yesterday, I would say it was the cal/mag and not the enzymes.

Dana

May 8, 2002

Hi ,

I have a few questions. How often did you give the enzymes before

(serenaid and Kirkman)? Everyday consistently or here and there as

needed? Which one of the Kirkman products was it (there are 4) and

they are all different?

> In the last 6 months I have seen increasing

> problems with other foods, soy and corn mostly. I

> have started giving , my son, enzymes with things

> like soy ice cream, soy cheese, and popcorn.

Did he always eat these foods and you added the enzymes? Or did you

introduce these foods new?

> Two weeks ago I switched from Kirkman's to HNI. I

> am only using the enzymes about 1 time per day.

Which HNI enzymes? How much did you give at a time?

> Finally...my question...Could HNI enzymes one time

> per day for a child that has been G/C free for 2 1/2

> years cause this reaction?

HNI enzymes are not like other ones. Really. It has been seen that

yes, even if someone has been GFCF for a year or more, there will be

some more withdrawal with HNI enzymes. This is also common when going

from other products to HNI ones. The HNI ones tend to pick up more

peptides at a given dose than others or with just food eliminations.

This may not be the case, but is a possibility that has occurred

before. Especially if he was getting soy and " appearing " to being

more intolerant to common foods (his gut was not healing).

>>> The only new food I have introduced is Nabisco

> fruit snacks( without enzymes). He has had Farley

> fruit snacks in the past.

Do these foods include artificial coloring or dyes? Those ingredients

can provoke bad reactions, especially the Red #40 and Yellow #5. I

will wait until you reply to the other questions. For now, probably

wait on enzymes, or only give 1/4- 1/2 capsule. If you are using Pep

and Zyme, go with just the Zyme for a few days. It has less proteases

and is 'gentler' on the system until it can heal up a little. With

the Peptizyde you can start low at about 1/4 capsule at a time and

work up, if you plan on giving it regularly. Best results are seen

when enzymes are given regularly for a few months. But if you only

want to give them " as needed " then just go with about 1/2

capsule...at least until you get with a little more information.

Thank you,

.

May 8, 2002

Very good. Thank you for the extra answers. This is my

interpretation of events which you can compare with others.

The Peptizyde may be picking up extra peptides and may have a little

gut healing going on too. It seems to be a pattern that when someone

keeps progressively " becoming " reactive to one food after another,

there is some leaky gut or something going on. Since it is on a half-

regular/half as needed basis (which is a perfectly fine why to do

it) try giving a half Peptizyde at a time for contamination, and

then a 1/2 or whole capsule for large quantities.

What I am thinking is that is he periodically gets an entire

Peptizyde (all proteases) for contamination, he may be getting a

little gut irritation along with the broken down food. But the

enzymes are not given regularly enough for the gut to heal and stay

healed - I might be babbling on here, it is late. Giving less for

contamination would reduce the irritation and still get the job

done.

Maybe try that at least until school is out.

.

May 9, 2002

-I see that has answered you(with all of her usual incredible

help!) but I just thought I would add that this did indeed happen

with my daughter. She was gfcf for about 7mo before we tried

enzymes...we started with Kirkmans and saw no noticable behavior

changes without food challenges. Then we tried Houston's and wow-we

got major withdrawl behavior so they definitely were cleaning

something up. The good thing was-as opposed to what happened with a

food infraction-we started seeing new improvements-slow at first but

now-wow! We have had fabulous results with Peptizide, Zyme Prime and

No Fenol(although we're still going slow with this one.) Good luck.

--

In @y..., lisa schael <lschael@y...> wrote:

> Hi everyone,

> I have a question about the difference between

> Kirkman and HNI enzymes.

> My son has been G/C free for 2 1/2 years. We have

> used Kirkman enzymes and Serenaid for contamination

> issues.(i.e.- McDs).

> In the last 6 months I have seen increasing

> problems with other foods, soy and corn mostly. I

> have started giving , my son, enzymes with things

> like soy ice cream, soy cheese, and popcorn.

> Two weeks ago I switched from Kirkman's to HNI. I

> am only using the enzymes about 1 time per day.

> has gone berserk. Increased tantrumming, intentionally

> peeing in pants, destructive , hyper. All behaviors

> that I see when we have a diet infraction.

> Finally...my question...Could HNI enzymes one time

> per day for a child that has been G/C free for 2 1/2

> years cause this reaction? It seems unlikely to me,

> but I don't know what else it could be.

> The only new food I have introduced is Nabisco

> fruit snacks( without enzymes). He has had Farley

> fruit snacks in the past.

> Thanks for any advice!

>

> __________________________________________________

>

September 10, 2002

Hi Vicki-

First, I would make it very clear to your doctor that your son is

just that-your son. Your doctor should make recommendations-say

enzymes-then what brand you choose he should respect. I assume since

you did indeed purchase Houston's enzymes that you have read the

information available at that website. If you haven't yet, you could

read what is available in the files section here (look to the left of

your screen then click on " files " ) to read other parents experiences

using the Houston enzymes.

I tried the Enzyme Complete with DPPIV prior to using Peptizide and

it didn't come close to giving my daughter the great effects I have

seen now. That doesn't mean, of course that you wouldn't like it for

your son. You don't say if your son is gfcf or you want him to be-

that would be something to consider also. Last I knew Kirkman's did

not promote using their enzymes in place of a gfcf diet. Houston's

makes that option available to interested parents. My daughter was

able to successfully come off the gfcf diet using Houston's enzymes.

Many children have, but some have not(celiacs need to continue to

avoid gluten.) Many children who were not gfcf prior to using

Houston's enzymes have a withdrawl reaction once the gluten and

casein are blocked from their systems. My daughter had some withdrawl

starting enzymes even thought she was on the diet-I believe she was

reacting to soy as well prior to enzymes.

What kind of results did you achieve using the enzyme you used

before? Was there a reason you decided to switch to Houston's? Did

your doctor tell you why he feels another type of enzyme would work

better for your son? All things to consider. I would just educate

yourself as much as you can on the different enzymes and then tell

your doctor which one you as the parent have chosen. Good luck!!

---

In @y..., " vblaesing " <vblaesing@y...> wrote:

> Last school year my son was taking a digestive enzyme that his

> naturopath doctor recommended (intenzyme forte).

>

> During the school year I've started my son on houstonni enzymes. I

> tried to get the doctor to send a note to school for this school

year

> so that he could take the houstonni enzymes with lunch. His new

> directive is for my son to take enzymaid complete with dppv. I'm

not

> happy with this, especially since I just bought 6 bottles of the

> houstonni enzymes.

>

> Does anyone have experience with enzymaid complete with dppiv or

> whatever it is called?

>

> Thank you

>

> VickiB

September 10, 2002

Vicki,

I have been using the enzyme complete with my daughter, now 4 yrs

old. We started out with a trial of houstons enzymes that a friend

of mine gives her child. I did not see anything noticeable so the

next time I placed my order for supplements from Kirkman I went ahead

and ordered the enzyme complete. I was doing the diet with my

daughter for about 6 months prior to starting the enzymes. I knew

that I was NOT 100% GF/CF, so I research the enzymes and began them.

I have seen so many positives. She is now interacting with kids.

Doesn't have tantrums like she use to. He BM's are for the most part

normal. She has just turned out to be a loving angel. Oh, and I

have been able to add in most of the foods that I previously had

stopped giving her when we were trying the diet. Still my happy

little angel. I wouldn't give up my enzymes for anything. Liz

> Last school year my son was taking a digestive enzyme that his

> naturopath doctor recommended (intenzyme forte).

>

> During the school year I've started my son on houstonni enzymes. I

> tried to get the doctor to send a note to school for this school

year

> so that he could take the houstonni enzymes with lunch. His new

> directive is for my son to take enzymaid complete with dppv. I'm

not

> happy with this, especially since I just bought 6 bottles of the

> houstonni enzymes.

>

> Does anyone have experience with enzymaid complete with dppiv or

> whatever it is called?

>

> Thank you

>

> VickiB

September 9, 2003

Hi, Marilyn;

The enzymes stay active in the GI system for at least 6 hours, however, the

enzymes

stay with the food they are eaten with, and food moves through the gut

continually.

By " effective " , you mean " will there be enzyme around to take care of the next

food

intake? " Food stays in the stomach up to about 90 minutes after eating, then

starts

to enter the small intestine. The timing can vary, fatty foods will delay

stomach

emptying, carbs tend to cause it to empty faster, so there are a number of

factors

involved. 2 hours is right on the borderline, so if the food is definitely

gluten or

casein, then give another enzyme, if not, then maybe you don't need it.

Devin

> Hi,

> I am just starting my son on the Houston AFP peptizyde enzymes. My

> question is: If he has one with his breakfast will it still be

> effective a couple of hours later? Today was his first day at

> preschool and he already managed to get into some non GFCF cookies.

> Thanks for much for any advice. Marilyn

September 9, 2003

Thank you so much for the great info!

Marilyn

> > Hi,

> > I am just starting my son on the Houston AFP peptizyde enzymes.

My

> > question is: If he has one with his breakfast will it still be

> > effective a couple of hours later? Today was his first day at

> > preschool and he already managed to get into some non GFCF

cookies.

> > Thanks for much for any advice. Marilyn

March 13, 2004

>>>Does this mean it is the new formulation or just a new label?

If it lists rice bran it is the older formulation. If the top label

lists cellulose, then it is the newer formulation. The label must

match what is in the actual bottle.

>>Also, can we still get the old ZP as well as the new, as I can't

see both on the Houston website?

My understanding is that only the new formulation will be offered

now. If you notice any difference in the two, please post it.

.

March 15, 2004

You'd have to call and ask. I bought 11 bottles of the old stuff, after

e-mailing with Devin about ph needing the Bromelain. He didn't have very

much of the old formulation left, and was Kind enough to package it for me.

I've never been helped by an individual as much as Devin, with regards to

both the product he designed and his willingness to answer questions.

enzyme question

> I have a bottle of ZP with a new label on. Does this mean it is the new

formulation or just a new label? Also, can we still get the old ZP as well

as the new, as I can't see both on the Houston website?

> TIA

> Prue

>

March 2, 2005

When you start out I think its a good idea to give with all except maybe

water! I don;t give for juice now, Sam doesn;t have milk at all.

Mandi in UK

I bought 's book yesterday from Amazon, and it should come in

the mail tomorrow. I just wanted to know if the enzymes are only

given with solid food, or should they be put in fruit juices and soy

milks as well?

March 3, 2005

Beginners question, sorry, what book?

Thanks,

Marie

> When you start out I think its a good idea to give with all except

maybe

> water! I don;t give for juice now, Sam doesn;t have milk at all.

> Mandi in UK

>

> I bought 's book yesterday from Amazon, and it should come in

> the mail tomorrow. I just wanted to know if the enzymes are only

> given with solid food, or should they be put in fruit juices and

soy

> milks as well?

>

March 3, 2005

" Beginners question, sorry, what book? "

http://enzymestuff.com/

in Oceanside, CA

Fighting for one child, in hopes it helps another child.

---------------------------------

Celebrate 's 10th Birthday!

Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

April 27, 2005

>

> My 6 year old two weeks ago started using No Phenol with good results.

> We are up to 1/2 cap once a day. Can I mix this enzyme with the AFP

> Peptizyde?

I have mixed all three enzymes together for YEARS with good results.

Dana

April 27, 2005

Dana, did you ever mix them with probiotics? The enzymestuff site

mention it can cause problems?

> >

> > My 6 year old two weeks ago started using No Phenol with good

results.

> > We are up to 1/2 cap once a day. Can I mix this enzyme with the

AFP

> > Peptizyde?

>

> I have mixed all three enzymes together for YEARS with good results.

>

> Dana

April 27, 2005

Hi:

Not Dana...but we do mix our enzymes w/our probiotic for lack of a better

solution right now...and recently had a stool test that confirmed our

probiotic is working and successfully populating my daughter's gut. I think

prob a lot of it depends on the probiotic. The concern is that the protease

in particular will " eat " the probiotic...but we havent found that to be

true. FWIW we currently use Custom Probiotics Adult Formula CP-1

Josie

Re: enzyme question

Dana, did you ever mix them with probiotics? The enzymestuff site

mention it can cause problems?

> >

> > My 6 year old two weeks ago started using No Phenol with good

results.

> > We are up to 1/2 cap once a day. Can I mix this enzyme with the

AFP

> > Peptizyde?

>

> I have mixed all three enzymes together for YEARS with good results.

>

> Dana

April 28, 2005

>

> Dana, did you ever mix them with probiotics? The enzymestuff site

> mention it can cause problems?

I mix probiotics and enzymes without problems. However, certain

enzymes will digest certain probiotics. You can research for the

specific enzymes and probiotics you use, or just give them apart.

I have used Culturelle and Natural Factors probiotics with HNI enzymes

without problems. The probiotics have still been effective.

Dana

April 28, 2005

It seems like most of the 'good' probiotic products commonly used work

just fine with the 'good' enzymes.

.

July 10, 2005

What brand and type of enzymes? What's in them?

S S

<tt>

I have been trying enzymes with ds for the last few days. His bms have been

loose

and " fluffy " which seems like yeast to me. We've always battled yeast, but would

the

enzymes make yeast worse, or is he having reaction to enzymes? any ideas? he is

gfcf

and takes probiotics.

</tt>

<tt>

=======================================================

July 10, 2005

Houston's new chewable Prime Zyme. I am beginning to worry. He was also

very stimmy tonight. More so than I've seen him in a long time. But,

his eye contact was great, and he used great language. He's 4.5 yrs

old. It is almost like a " die off " reaction to yeast that I've read

about. We've made no changes to his yeast protocol. I thought enzymes

might actually help us fight the yeast.

Ensymes really seemed like the right step, but maybe he can't tolerate

them.

I'd be grateful for any suggestions. I've included a link to the

Enzymes.

Amy

http://houstonni.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=HNI-

USA & Product_Code=HN002-TAB

On Sunday, July 10, 2005, at 09:02 PM, Shepard wrote:

>

> What brand and type of enzymes? What's in them?

> S S

>

> <tt>

> I have been trying enzymes with ds for the last few days. His bms have

> been loose

> and " fluffy " which seems like yeast to me. We've always battled yeast,

> but would the

> enzymes make yeast worse, or is he having reaction to enzymes? any

> ideas? he is gfcf

> and takes probiotics.

>

> </tt>

>

>

> <tt>

> =======================================================

>

July 10, 2005

> Houston's new chewable Prime Zyme. I am beginning to worry. He was

also

> very stimmy tonight. More so than I've seen him in a long time. But,

> his eye contact was great, and he used great language. He's 4.5 yrs

> old. It is almost like a " die off " reaction to yeast that I've read

> about. We've made no changes to his yeast protocol. I thought enzymes

> might actually help us fight the yeast.

> Ensymes really seemed like the right step, but maybe he can't tolerate

> them.

Is this his first go with enzymes? If so, what you're describing is

right on target -- some regression mixed with improvements. There's

usually an adjustment period that can take anywhere from a week to 3

months, because the enzymes are making so many changes to the gut. If

the balanace tips way to the regression side you can lower the

dose...but a long as you're seeing good stuff too I'd try to hang in

there.

It took my son 10 days of holy hell (with glimpses of sunshine) and

after that *huge improvements. I think with him the main adjustment

was yeast die-off from No-Fenol.

Nell

July 10, 2005

Amy,

I know that No Fenol will assist with yeast issues and you may be

experiencing a die off period...how long, how much and often are you giving

them? The rule most of us follow is 'low and slow' with enzymes. Please

provide more information about the above questions. Jackie---

Houston's new chewable Prime Zyme. I am beginning to worry. He was also

very stimmy tonight. More so than I've seen him in a long time. But,

his eye contact was great, and he used great language. He's 4.5 yrs

old. It is almost like a " die off " reaction to yeast that I've read

about. We've made no changes to his yeast protocol. I thought enzymes

might actually help us fight the yeast.

Ensymes really seemed like the right step, but maybe he can't tolerate

them.

July 11, 2005

I was giving one chewable enzyme with each meal (3 total-- too much?)

He is still gfcf, but he eats soy products, and rice carbs, so I

thought adding the enzymes was a good idea. I did give him one no-fenol

each day. I am on the East coast and we've just gotten up. I don't know

if I should give him any enzymes today or not. Maybe I should increase

yeast protocol first to make sure that is under control, then go back

to enzymes? Candex is supposed to et rid of the yeasts food source,

therfore, no die off response. I am thinking trying this from local HF

store.

Amy

On Sunday, July 10, 2005, at 11:15 PM, Jackie Hines wrote:

> Amy,

> I know that No Fenol will assist with yeast issues and you may be

> experiencing a die off period...how long, how much and often are you

> giving

> them? The rule most of us follow is 'low and slow' with enzymes.

> Please

> provide more information about the above questions. Jackie---

>

> Houston's new chewable Prime Zyme. I am beginning to worry. He was also

> very stimmy tonight. More so than I've seen him in a long time. But,

> his eye contact was great, and he used great language. He's 4.5 yrs

> old. It is almost like a " die off " reaction to yeast that I've read

> about. We've made no changes to his yeast protocol. I thought enzymes

> might actually help us fight the yeast.

> Ensymes really seemed like the right step, but maybe he can't tolerate

> them.

>

> =======================================================

>

July 11, 2005

Amy,

I would reduce the enzyme to one meal per day for at least 7 days, then

increase to 1 tablet for 2 meals for 7 days, and then try one with each meal

the third week. Do you know what the equivalent amounts of the tablets are

to a capsule? I still only give a half of a cap per meal with my kids after

months on enzymes. It is still good that he is GFCF, so you don't have to

worry about infractions.

Reduce the amount and slowly build up.... I bet you will see a difference.

Jackie---