Re: Endo visit - now ?'s about PRIONS and Steroids in Armour and Adrenal Supplements

[Guest guest]

Could I please remind everyone that they are not to mention doctors names in full. Just Dr.A or Dr. F etc.

Lilian

Moderator

[Guest guest]

Hi Adrienne,

Armour thyroid comes from a special closed ( no new individuals

added) herd of pigs which are specially kept and fed a vegetarian diet ( so

no risk of prions). After the thyroid glands are removed for processing, the

meat goes into the usual food industry. If you email Forest pharmaceuticals

they will probably send you a 'patient pack' giving all the relevant info.

My view of the PRION issue is that there seems to be no more risk

from this as there is from eating a pork chop. However I would want

to know what exactly any risk might be so that I can make an informed

choice. In the end the benefits to my health may greatly outweigh any

slight risk.

Because my symptoms have

been so severe and prolonged (I have had fibro, IBS, headaches,

severe energy slumps since 2000) I opted for the Armour/Adrenal Extra

route, which was supported by a consultation with Dr Peatfield.

I would be very grateful for any members' comments on the above

issues.

Many thanks

Adrienne

------------------------------------

Messages are not a substitute for professional medical advice. Always

consult with a suitably qualified practitioner before changing

medication.

[Guest guest]

Hi Adrienne

I went to see an endocrinologist Dr A, at the City Hospital Nottingham, today. I spent around 45 minutes with him. My GP's referral letter mentioned my wish to have his support for a trial of Armour and I told him that I had been taking it for the last month. I took with me information about the number and severity of my symptoms prior to taking Armour and my subjective estimation of my improvements. (I am MUCH improved – on many levels; sleeping better, increased energy, decreased fibro pain, lessened frequency and intensity of headaches, to name but a few). I also took a graph of my improving basal temperature (improved from av.35.8 C to av. 36.2 C).

Good for you Adrienne that you went to this trouble to try to prove to your endocrinologists the benefits you had achieved by following a completely different protocol to that laid out within the NHS.

He said he had read the information about the TPA protocol on treating hypothyroidism, but was not familiar with Armour, has not been trained in prescribing it, etc so would not be prescribing it for me.

A more open endocrinologist would have made himself "familiar with Armour" and learned that before the manufacture of L-thyroxine, thyroid extract was the ONLY medication for hypothyroids and it had been proved effective and safe for over 100 years. "It is an easy cop-out to say I know nothing about it, therefore I refuse to use it".I gave him the results of my 24 hour Adrenal Stress test results which showed that my levels drop below the normal range by 8 am. He called into question the validity of this test as there have been some variations in interpretation of these tests from lab to lab, especially if they are not routinely doing this test.

I doubt he is talking about the 24 hour salivary test. Perhaps you should ask him to be specific about this. The NHS only do a test to see where your cortisol levels are at one time during the day, usually morning, but do no other test to see where this lies at any other time of day to compare. The NHS do not do this test, so he needs to explain what he is talking about.

He felt that a better test would be to give a substance that stimulates the adrenal gland and compare bloods before and after. But then said it would not be useful in my case – I can't recall why!

This is the ACTH Stim test. I have been told that this would make even a dead donkey kick.I showed him the Adrenal Extra supplement and the Armour tablets. He wanted me to assure myself that neither of them has contamination by PRIONS – which are implicated in diseases like Spongiform Encephalopathy, (Mad Cow Disease, or Scrapie - something similar is also present in pigs). He said that he definitely would not take anything himself that held a risk like this.

Why don't these doctors keep up to date with what is happening - why don't they use their brains and study the facts. Under the "Duties of a medical doctor" under the GMC, it states that one of the duties is that doctors keep their medical knowledge up to date. I am setting out fully the information about this so you can, if you wish, copy it out and send to Dr A.

What many general practitioners fail to recognise is that the thyroid powder that contains the active ingredients for Armour Thyroid is derived from the thyroid glands of 'grain-fed' pigs and hogs. The USDA changed the requirements about feeding ground animal remains to pigs several years ago. The porcine thyroid glands that go into Armour Thyroid tablets are only derived from animals that DO go into the US food supply. If any animal were rejected from the food supply, its thyroid gland would never get into Forest Pharmaceutical’s product. Armour Thyroid has been on the U.S. pharmaceutical market for over 100 years and there are NO reports of any Armour Thyroid patient ever contracting CJD".

The disease status of porcine animals born, raised, and slaughtered in the USA or Canada can be accessed through the World Health Organization, Office Internationale des Epizooties (OIE) website at http://www.oie.int Here you will find that the USA and Canada are classified as being free of List 'A' porcine diseases including foot-and-mouth disease, hog cholera, swine vesicular disease, and African swine fever. This disease information can also be confirmed through USDA Animal Plant and Health Inspection Service (APHIS) Armour is a natural preparation of USP grade desiccated thyroid powder derived from porcine thyroid glands.

Armour Thyroid meets all the requirements set by the USP for thyroid medications and manufacturing specifications are tightly controlled, contrary to the BTA and BTF's current misconceptions about desiccated thyroid. The natural porcine thyroid powders are not sterile products nor are they designed to be such. The finished lots are tested for and meet all USP compendial requirements including those for the absence of Salmonella and E.coli pathogens. The manufacturers also verify that the Total Aerobic Plate Count (TAPC) does not exceed 10,000 Colony Forming Units per gram (CFU/g). The entire thyroid process is performed in accordance with the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) Current Good Manufacturing Practices (cGMP) requirements. After processing, the thyroid products are packaged, stored, and handled in a manner to prevent any cross-contamination.He also wanted to know if either Armour or the Adrenal Extra contained steroids which could explain my improvement rather than it being anything to do with the thyroid hormones in Armour or the Adrenal or Pituitary extract in Adrenal Extra – and with the implication that steroid use over the long term is bad.

If their patients are getting well on something other than the NHS treatment protocol, they have to try to find another reason rather than the fact that 'natural' v 'synthetic' is the answer. We know all about the effects of steroids, and NAE do not contain steroids, neither does Armour.My view of the PRION issue is that there seems to be no more risk from this as there is from eating a pork chop.

Perhaps Dr A should be asked whether he checks his pork chops to see whether there is a priorn issue there.

However I would want to know what exactly any risk might be so that I can make an informed choice. In the end the benefits to my health may greatly outweigh any slight risk.

If there was ANY such risk with Armour, the FDA would NOT have approved it for the treatment of hypothyroidism. How can anybody even think such a thing would be allowed.Dr Archer has requested a TFT for TSH and T3 levels and for this to be taken first thing in the morning, before I take my Armour meds and from that he would have a better picture of what was going on. He seemed to be also saying that he does favour the addition of T4 alongside T3 as his preferred method of treatment in cases like mine, but would await my test results before advising me.

I would make sure that you do not take your Armour for a couple of days before your blood test because if your TSH is completely suppressed, your FT3 high, he will be convinced that he is right and you are wrong and that Armour is bad for you and try to persuade you to stop it completely because you are going hyperthyroid. This is what happens when you are taking all the thyroid hormones your body requires. By stopping it for a couple of days or more, your TSH should be in a place where he is satisfied and will not be a cause of concern for him. Because your body is getting everything it needs, without stopping your Armour it would show your TSH completely suppressed your FT4 and FT£ high in the range (if not over the top of the range).

At the end of the consultation I gave him the two March papers that are to be circulated to Endos and GPs shortly. He said he would read them.

I hope that if he has any questions regarding the two papers that he will write to TPA asking for clarification of the facts. We will wait and see. Some doctors don't want their minds changing, even when faced with the facts.My concern about his approach centres around his seeming lack of interest in any clinical symptoms like basal temperature, pulse, blood pressure (he made no physical examination of me what so ever) and his focus on blood test results.

You could write to him and ask him exactly WHY he didn't give you a physical examination when this is recommended by the GMC, BTF and various other bodies.

He said that the reference range for TSH (between 0.3 – 5.5) was too wide, feeling that the top end of the range should be 3.0. But he did not comment on the idea that the reference ranges might be compromised in the first place and that reliance on them entirely as a method of diagnosis was flawed.

Slowly, slowly, catchee monekey Adrienne. He IS learning.Along side taking Armour and Adrenal Extra, I have also been using progestrerone cream and treating candida with Fluconazole combined with strictly excluding any sugars in my diet. It is possible these latter strategies could account for my improvements to date but I don't think so. I shall continue to take Armour and Adrenal Extra as I am getting so much benefit and have planned to steadily up the dose (120 gms currently) as per the suggested protocol. However I wonder now if I should have given more consideration to continuing with Levothyroxine and trying out additional T4. Because my symptoms have been so severe and prolonged (I have had fibro, IBS, headaches, severe energy slumps since 2000) I opted for the Armour/Adrenal Extra route, which was supported by a consultation with Dr Peatfield.

It is probably a combination of all the various treatments you are now on. There are so many associated conditions that go along with hypothyroidism that we need to look after them all. I am so pleased you are doing so well. These doctors WILL listen to us one day, and we must never give up. We KNOW the facts - they have yet to learn.I would be very grateful for any members' comments on the above issues.Many thanksAdrienne

Luv - Sheila

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