Guest guest Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 In a message dated 7/18/2007 11:40:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes: Interesting, I have noticed that he does like the sameness of most of the stuff we buy him... very servicable but very plain in style... he seems to like dark colors and lots of black... but I am ok with what ever he chooses... as long as he is changing and wearing clean every day. Rose I usually buy a few sets of something I like and keep to the same styles. For example: I have about three pairs of jeans, some black Tshirts and a Jeans type short sleeve jacket that is more or less my summer uniform. In winter is it jeans and a sweat shirt, usually gray. My mother hates that I wear the same thing all the time, but I don't see the problem. I don't have to waste any time thinking about what matches and what goes with what. All I really have to do is to pick up things, put them on and I know that they will match. It might not look the best, but for many reasons I don't care about that. Everything is clean and I look more presentable than a lot of people, and I do have a couple of suits for those rare occasions when I need one. I just don't see the need for spending money on a vast wardrobe when what I have works and doesn't look that bad. Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 In a message dated 7/18/2007 11:40:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes: Interesting, I have noticed that he does like the sameness of most of the stuff we buy him... very servicable but very plain in style... he seems to like dark colors and lots of black... but I am ok with what ever he chooses... as long as he is changing and wearing clean every day. Rose I usually buy a few sets of something I like and keep to the same styles. For example: I have about three pairs of jeans, some black Tshirts and a Jeans type short sleeve jacket that is more or less my summer uniform. In winter is it jeans and a sweat shirt, usually gray. My mother hates that I wear the same thing all the time, but I don't see the problem. I don't have to waste any time thinking about what matches and what goes with what. All I really have to do is to pick up things, put them on and I know that they will match. It might not look the best, but for many reasons I don't care about that. Everything is clean and I look more presentable than a lot of people, and I do have a couple of suits for those rare occasions when I need one. I just don't see the need for spending money on a vast wardrobe when what I have works and doesn't look that bad. Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Interesting, I have noticed that he does like the sameness of most of the stuff we buy him... very servicable but very plain in style... he seems to like dark colors and lots of black... but I am ok with what ever he chooses... as long as he is changing and wearing clean every day. Rose > > " IT's not unusual for my to buy a couple identical pairs of pants and > 3 or 4 of the same shirt... when you find something that works for you > hold on to it. " > > I'm pretty much the same way. I've got a bunch of identical shirts. > > My dress shoes are all the same style also primarily because they feel > great on my feet, but since I wore them every day to work I rotated > them so that they would have time to " ait out. " > > Tom > Administrator > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Ender, Wow, great insight and thoughts and ideas. I cannot tell you how much this helps me to understand more what Mitch is all about. and yes the bi-polar mix in is very interesing... and to be totally honest there are days I just do not want to go home, but I always do. We are fortunate that we have more than just mom & dad to help - he has cousins and a big brother he idolizes and they are around everyday...espcially if mom & dad are working and he is not in school. I tell ya between you & Tom I have learned more in 2 days than all my research in 2 years. Thank you Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 It is fun for both of us because we both love to do that kind of work. He really likes to find the names of the different plants and can usually tell you the scientific name as well as the common name. He once he gets going it is hard to get him to stop. My favorite thing is to split up at the greenhouse each of us with a dollar limit and see who can find the most interesting plants. What a ball he absolutly loves it. Have not had the guts to teach him how to use the lawn mower. May be I should as he is more than old enough and I think it might give him a sense of responsibility. Rose > > " Thank you for yet more insight... I think I have a basic idea- you > know we (Mitch, his counselor, Mom & Dad) had already decided that > his greatest interests are plants of all kinds espcially flowering > or herbs... he is fascianted by landscaping and has many plans > already drawn out and labled for when we have the funds to re create > the back yard. We are trying to let him learn all we can about it > and visit greenhouses all the time. " > > Keep encouraging him. When I was twelve, I was doing the same thing. > I cut five lawns, went around the neighborhood and trimmed trees and > bushes, and drew up the plans for the backyard, which my father did > not change one iota, and I relandscaped it. I had quite a business > going and used the money I earned from it to pay for booksm room and > board, and partial tuition at college for five years. > > For me, that was a passing perseverative interest, although I > already have thoughts in my mind about how I would like to landscape > the next house I purchase. > > Tom > Administrator > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 I love that cartoon and so does Mitch... soemtimes I look at mitch and wonder why others can't see what I see... I know why they cant but it is so frustrating. I have been telling people the same thing about creating the habit of social skills. and you are right no matter what they teach him he still feels like he does not fit in. It is so hard for him to remember to do what they try to teach him. He does great with family and really has blossomed when we are around them but have never done well in groups I think he cannot filter all the infromation coming in at him at once. Rose > > " Yes all of you are very chatty and very inteligent as far as I can > see. There are some very thought provoking conversations going on > in here. All I can say is well done. " > > Well, as I said earlier, we all have different levels of > functionality, but we say and post here is what goes on inside our > heads. The problem, as you say, is that most people cannot see > inside our heads. > > I don't know if you have ever seen that old bugs bunny cartoon where > this construction worker is tearing down a building, and in the > cornerstone is a box. Within the box is a frog, who promptly gets > out and dances and sings. > > The construction worker thinks there is money in this so he brings > the frog to a talent agency, but all the frog will do there > is " Brrrrrrrrrrrroooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkk! " > > Not dissuaded, the optimistic construction worker gathers together > all the money he has and buys a theatre and sends out fliers. People > rush in to see the frog, who is singing and dancing back stage, but > when the curtain is lifted... > > " Brrrrrrrrrrrroooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkk! " > > He winds up taking the frog to the construction site and puts the > frog in the cornerstone for the new building and seals it up. > > AS people are like that frog, and a select few people are like that > construction worker. > > > > " I will take you up on your invitation to stay ;0) and please be > assured all of you that I am not going to be posting a lot I really > need to " see " into what it is Mitch " sees " and you all can help me > with my quest, not so much to change him to conform but I like the > idea Tom gave to strip away the socialtal notions and be who he was > intended to be. " > > I think the more question you ask the better. If you just sit > silently and watch, you may misunderstand some of the things that > happen here. > > For instance, as you can see, we are in the midst of a number of > conversations which might appear topical to anyone. But they are in > fact reflective of our perseverative interests, which is why for > example, you could go back three years and see is talking about > pretty much the same things in many cases. > > Do we ever get tired of the same old things? Some do but many don't. > > " What really ticks me off is that everyone we deal with insists that > he conform and that just ticks me off...' > > Well, there is no crime in wanting him to conform. The problem is > that he can never completely conform. Recently, Scherer at > Sick Kids Hospital in Toronto identified the GENES which autistics > have. This means that we are built a certain way, and not much will > change us in terms of therapy or medication. (No therapy or > medication will change your eye color for example.) But medication > does help with co-morbidities, and therapy helps to the extent that > it can relieve stress and give us coping mechanisms to deal with the > real world. > > The biggest misconception about AS people is that people think we > are just social rejects who are not willing to make the changes > necessary to fit in. That is untrue. Even when we make the changes, > people sense enough differences in us that we just are not accepted. > As much as society promotes tolerance, we can accept others, but > others cannot accept us, which is why most of us struggle, except > those like Bill Gates and Speilberg, who have AS and managed > to break free of the reigns and harnesses put on them. > > This group is founded on the idea that we should all accept > ourselves, but not be too complacent either. Most of us here have > fashioned out some kind of living for ourselves, or at least have > managed to find some online friends, or have become a bit more > optimistic about ourselves, which in many cases is more than meds > and therapy have done. > > Tom > Administrator > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 I love that cartoon and so does Mitch... soemtimes I look at mitch and wonder why others can't see what I see... I know why they cant but it is so frustrating. I have been telling people the same thing about creating the habit of social skills. and you are right no matter what they teach him he still feels like he does not fit in. It is so hard for him to remember to do what they try to teach him. He does great with family and really has blossomed when we are around them but have never done well in groups I think he cannot filter all the infromation coming in at him at once. Rose > > " Yes all of you are very chatty and very inteligent as far as I can > see. There are some very thought provoking conversations going on > in here. All I can say is well done. " > > Well, as I said earlier, we all have different levels of > functionality, but we say and post here is what goes on inside our > heads. The problem, as you say, is that most people cannot see > inside our heads. > > I don't know if you have ever seen that old bugs bunny cartoon where > this construction worker is tearing down a building, and in the > cornerstone is a box. Within the box is a frog, who promptly gets > out and dances and sings. > > The construction worker thinks there is money in this so he brings > the frog to a talent agency, but all the frog will do there > is " Brrrrrrrrrrrroooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkk! " > > Not dissuaded, the optimistic construction worker gathers together > all the money he has and buys a theatre and sends out fliers. People > rush in to see the frog, who is singing and dancing back stage, but > when the curtain is lifted... > > " Brrrrrrrrrrrroooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkk! " > > He winds up taking the frog to the construction site and puts the > frog in the cornerstone for the new building and seals it up. > > AS people are like that frog, and a select few people are like that > construction worker. > > > > " I will take you up on your invitation to stay ;0) and please be > assured all of you that I am not going to be posting a lot I really > need to " see " into what it is Mitch " sees " and you all can help me > with my quest, not so much to change him to conform but I like the > idea Tom gave to strip away the socialtal notions and be who he was > intended to be. " > > I think the more question you ask the better. If you just sit > silently and watch, you may misunderstand some of the things that > happen here. > > For instance, as you can see, we are in the midst of a number of > conversations which might appear topical to anyone. But they are in > fact reflective of our perseverative interests, which is why for > example, you could go back three years and see is talking about > pretty much the same things in many cases. > > Do we ever get tired of the same old things? Some do but many don't. > > " What really ticks me off is that everyone we deal with insists that > he conform and that just ticks me off...' > > Well, there is no crime in wanting him to conform. The problem is > that he can never completely conform. Recently, Scherer at > Sick Kids Hospital in Toronto identified the GENES which autistics > have. This means that we are built a certain way, and not much will > change us in terms of therapy or medication. (No therapy or > medication will change your eye color for example.) But medication > does help with co-morbidities, and therapy helps to the extent that > it can relieve stress and give us coping mechanisms to deal with the > real world. > > The biggest misconception about AS people is that people think we > are just social rejects who are not willing to make the changes > necessary to fit in. That is untrue. Even when we make the changes, > people sense enough differences in us that we just are not accepted. > As much as society promotes tolerance, we can accept others, but > others cannot accept us, which is why most of us struggle, except > those like Bill Gates and Speilberg, who have AS and managed > to break free of the reigns and harnesses put on them. > > This group is founded on the idea that we should all accept > ourselves, but not be too complacent either. Most of us here have > fashioned out some kind of living for ourselves, or at least have > managed to find some online friends, or have become a bit more > optimistic about ourselves, which in many cases is more than meds > and therapy have done. > > Tom > Administrator > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 In a message dated 7/18/2007 4:04:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes: ,Thank you for your input, could it be the simplicity of the clothing and the ease of use that makes it so appealing? Mitch is the same way- ;0) he does not like to have to think about what matches... UNLESS he is dressing up then everything has to be perfect- grey pants & jacket- bright red or maroon tie and a grey or black shirt... almost monocromatic- except for the tie. Very Very picky when it comes to dressing up. All these idosyncrasys (sorry my spelling is atrocious) make for a very interesting life in my house. Rose For me it is the simplicity and comfort that are appealing. I don't care about fashion and as long as I look presentable, that's what I care about. By that I mean I won't go out in public in dirty clothes, a complete set of sweats or athletic clothes, etc. When I buy clothes, I make sure that things match then so that I don't have to fool with putting together outfits later. Being able to practically get dressed in the dark and not having to worry about things going together. I have two suits. The first one is dressy casual and is khaki pants with a light blue shirt, dark blue blazer and a couple of ties. The other one is my business suit which is dark gray pants and jacket with a white shirt and a couple of ties. Another reason dressing the same doesn't bother me is that all through primary schooling, meaning kindergarten through 12th grade, I always wore uniforms anyway. At the private school it was blue pants and white shirt with collar, same at the Catholic school. 8th grade to 12th was a military school where we had a variety of uniforms. Even then we didn't have to worry about what to wear because the uniform was specified by day, event and daily orders. Monday and Wednesday was fatigues because those days we had drill. All other were "class B." Class B was in early fall and late spring: black shoes (leather to be kept shiny) and black socks, dark blue pants with a black stripe on the outside of the leg and a blue, short sleeve shirt with open collar. Winter was a gray long sleeve shirt with a tie. Sunday for chapel, going on leave or day pass and some other occasions was "class A." In early fall and spring uniform, you simply put your ribbons and braids on a regular shirt. In winter we had a "battle jacket" on which you could put all that stuff and leave it, which was easy. Each uniform set had a hat to go with it as well. There was also parade dress which was white pants, battle jacket with white shirt and black tie, white parade hat, white gloves and for the line companies, the piping and cartridge boxes to go with their rifles. Officers wore white pants, coattee and sash, saber and either white parade hat or shako and plume. The sash might look nice, but it was a pain in the backside to put on just right and was uncomfortable. Might scan my senior picture one day so you can see an officer's uniform. The uniforms could be modified somewhat by orders of the day. If it was considered cold enough by the staff, jackets would be ordered. If not, they would be ordered off. If it was raining or looked like it might rain, rain capes were ordered. Usually you carried those folded over your arm and only ware them in the rain. They looked cool, but weren't the easiest things to get around in and were very hot. There was often a lot of scrambling around at the daily formations as orders were called out and people had to go get or take back to their rooms different things. Being out of uniform was a punishable offense. So, wearing the same thing all the time is nothing unusual for me. Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 , Thank you for your input, could it be the simplicity of the clothing and the ease of use that makes it so appealing? Mitch is the same way- ;0) he does not like to have to think about what matches... UNLESS he is dressing up then everything has to be perfect- grey pants & jacket- bright red or maroon tie and a grey or black shirt... almost monocromatic- except for the tie. Very Very picky when it comes to dressing up. All these idosyncrasys (sorry my spelling is atrocious) make for a very interesting life in my house. Rose > > > In a message dated 7/18/2007 11:40:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > no_reply writes: > > Interesting, I have noticed that he does like the sameness of most > of the stuff we buy him... very servicable but very plain in > style... he seems to like dark colors and lots of black... but I am > ok with what ever he chooses... as long as he is changing and > wearing clean every day. > Rose > > > > I usually buy a few sets of something I like and keep to the same styles. > For example: I have about three pairs of jeans, some black Tshirts and a Jeans > type short sleeve jacket that is more or less my summer uniform. In winter is > it jeans and a sweat shirt, usually gray. > > My mother hates that I wear the same thing all the time, but I don't see the > problem. I don't have to waste any time thinking about what matches and what > goes with what. All I really have to do is to pick up things, put them on and > I know that they will match. > > It might not look the best, but for many reasons I don't care about that. > Everything is clean and I look more presentable than a lot of people, and I do > have a couple of suits for those rare occasions when I need one. I just don't > see the need for spending money on a vast wardrobe when what I have works and > doesn't look that bad. > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all- new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 , Thank you for your input, could it be the simplicity of the clothing and the ease of use that makes it so appealing? Mitch is the same way- ;0) he does not like to have to think about what matches... UNLESS he is dressing up then everything has to be perfect- grey pants & jacket- bright red or maroon tie and a grey or black shirt... almost monocromatic- except for the tie. Very Very picky when it comes to dressing up. All these idosyncrasys (sorry my spelling is atrocious) make for a very interesting life in my house. Rose > > > In a message dated 7/18/2007 11:40:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > no_reply writes: > > Interesting, I have noticed that he does like the sameness of most > of the stuff we buy him... very servicable but very plain in > style... he seems to like dark colors and lots of black... but I am > ok with what ever he chooses... as long as he is changing and > wearing clean every day. > Rose > > > > I usually buy a few sets of something I like and keep to the same styles. > For example: I have about three pairs of jeans, some black Tshirts and a Jeans > type short sleeve jacket that is more or less my summer uniform. In winter is > it jeans and a sweat shirt, usually gray. > > My mother hates that I wear the same thing all the time, but I don't see the > problem. I don't have to waste any time thinking about what matches and what > goes with what. All I really have to do is to pick up things, put them on and > I know that they will match. > > It might not look the best, but for many reasons I don't care about that. > Everything is clean and I look more presentable than a lot of people, and I do > have a couple of suits for those rare occasions when I need one. I just don't > see the need for spending money on a vast wardrobe when what I have works and > doesn't look that bad. > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all- new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 interesting how our lives so different can be so much the same. Mitch just likes the sameness... thanks for your thoughts. Rose > > > In a message dated 7/18/2007 4:04:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > no_reply writes: > > , > Thank you for your input, could it be the simplicity of the > clothing and the ease of use that makes it so appealing? Mitch is > the same way- ;0) he does not like to have to think about what > matches... UNLESS he is dressing up then everything has to be > perfect- grey pants & jacket- bright red or maroon tie and a grey or > black shirt... almost monocromatic- except for the tie. Very Very > picky when it comes to dressing up. > > All these idosyncrasys (sorry my spelling is atrocious) make for a > very interesting life in my house. > > Rose > > > > For me it is the simplicity and comfort that are appealing. I don't care > about fashion and as long as I look presentable, that's what I care about. By > that I mean I won't go out in public in dirty clothes, a complete set of sweats > or athletic clothes, etc. > > When I buy clothes, I make sure that things match then so that I don't have > to fool with putting together outfits later. Being able to practically get > dressed in the dark and not having to worry about things going together. > > I have two suits. The first one is dressy casual and is khaki pants with a > light blue shirt, dark blue blazer and a couple of ties. The other one is my > business suit which is dark gray pants and jacket with a white shirt and a > couple of ties. > > Another reason dressing the same doesn't bother me is that all through > primary schooling, meaning kindergarten through 12th grade, I always wore uniforms > anyway. At the private school it was blue pants and white shirt with collar, > same at the Catholic school. 8th grade to 12th was a military school where > we had a variety of uniforms. Even then we didn't have to worry about what to > wear because the uniform was specified by day, event and daily orders. Monday > and Wednesday was fatigues because those days we had drill. All other were > " class B. " Class B was in early fall and late spring: black shoes (leather to > be kept shiny) and black socks, dark blue pants with a black stripe on the > outside of the leg and a blue, short sleeve shirt with open collar. Winter was > a gray long sleeve shirt with a tie. Sunday for chapel, going on leave or day > pass and some other occasions was " class A. " In early fall and spring > uniform, you simply put your ribbons and braids on a regular shirt. In winter we > had a " battle jacket " on which you could put all that stuff and leave it, which > was easy. Each uniform set had a hat to go with it as well. There was also > parade dress which was white pants, battle jacket with white shirt and black > tie, white parade hat, white gloves and for the line companies, the piping and > cartridge boxes to go with their rifles. Officers wore white pants, coattee > and sash, saber and either white parade hat or shako and plume. The sash might > look nice, but it was a pain in the backside to put on just right and was > uncomfortable. Might scan my senior picture one day so you can see an officer's > uniform. > > The uniforms could be modified somewhat by orders of the day. If it was > considered cold enough by the staff, jackets would be ordered. If not, they would > be ordered off. If it was raining or looked like it might rain, rain capes > were ordered. Usually you carried those folded over your arm and only ware them > in the rain. They looked cool, but weren't the easiest things to get around > in and were very hot. There was often a lot of scrambling around at the daily > formations as orders were called out and people had to go get or take back > to their rooms different things. Being out of uniform was a punishable > offense. > > So, wearing the same thing all the time is nothing unusual for me. > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all- new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 " One Froggy Evening " by Chuck ... Rated one of the top 5 cartoons ever make and Spielberg has described it as " the most perfect cartoon ever made " . I totally agree, a true classic with out a doubt. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048449/ Feeling you don't fit in is what the problem is... Aspies don't fit in... we weren't on the distribution for the rule book on human interaction that everyone else was born with pre-wired... Aspies have to figure it all out for themselves... generally with out any held. You've heard of the book " Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus " (There is a lot of truth in that concept) Well Aspies are from Phobos and Deimos (The moons of Mars... most Aspies are male and some of the traits are male behaviors taken to extremes so that seemed to be a good point of origin) we got dumped out of a spaceship on earth where these Martians and Venusians have reached an uneasy state of co-existence. A lot of what we find is sort of familiar but everything is just a bit off. And we need to find a way to survive, but (this is the kicker) you're the only alien that you are likely to meet anytime soon. With time we build about theories how the world around us works the things we have the most contact with get workable theories the quickest and having a theory gives us some level of control and we are less threatened. With time we build up a set of that allows us to operate the world and to some extent simulate the behaviors these weird beings we have to live with... Learning to act like them is important be cause they turn hostile if you don't perform the rituals correctly and every thing has some sort silly ritual for it... I think you get the idea... To greater or lesser extent Aspies feel lost and alone in a world they have little control of populated beings that they don't understand and are likely to vicious on you if you make an error in one of these foolish ritual game they seem compelled to play... ie The world is a scary place... With you and people he knows has a model of how to interact with you and them. You and he have negotiated which (of what appear to him to be silly) rituals need to be observed and to what precision. So he feels safe and in control enough that he can relax and not be as hyper-vigilant as he is in less familiar situations. The way an Aspie sees the world is vastly different than NT. When you live in a world that can't/won't understand you and your most solid fact about it is the it's populated by beings that don't behave rationally most of the time it is real easy to get paranoid. Telling him to relax and be himself in an unfamiliar situation is not an option. He's alone in enemy territory surrounded by natives that are at best unstable and unpredictable. My mom always told me, " That to know me is to love me " every time I got the " relax and be yourself pep talk. You say the same about right... I think moms are generally right when they tell sons that but for an Aspie it's a lot more complex... Get to know an Aspie and the Aspie getting know you takes tiime, most people can class people as a friend or foe in a few seconds it takes longer when you need to build a model of the new person... So while he's building the model in his mind the Aspie has his katana drawn and held on-guard as he circles the new person sizing him up. Lots of people get confused that Aspies take as long as they do on first impression and some are offended if they pick up on being evaluated as a threat. Most people are lazy and don't want to invest the time it times to be become friends with an Aspie... ly the only real world people I have considered friends are people I end up being throw together with for what ever reason class, seating lab partner, working on the same project... I grow on people sort of like a fungus I guess when they are around me long enough... As an Aspie's theory of the world grows and evolves he gets better at passing for normal and that is what people want for Aspies (including many Aspies themselves) to be indistinguishable from normal people... The problem is that for that to happen we would need to lose what ever it this that makes us Aspies... and if that happened we wouldn't be the people we are anymore... Would it be a loss or a gain to the universe I don't know I your first post you said " I love the fact that this group is based on the fact that what my son has is not a disorder but rather an asset. I need help on how to guide him to utilize this asset and make it work for him in the real world. " Asperger Syndrome is a disorder. It causes a great deal of pain to those that are touched by it, but there are a lot of things that are a lot worse... I have four nephews the third has Downs Syndrome (a permanent toddler it could be worse but not much) Watching him it's pretty clear he is rather severely autistic too. My baby sister his mom died of primary cancer to years ago (caused be a rare and very nasty mold getting into their house) With her gone it's a matter of time before he'll need to be Institutionalized. Compared to that AS would by a joy... Aspies can lead very productive and relatively happy lives... I design " data handling system " I'm very good at it and I like to think I've done something of worth to the world. I can see how some aspie traits may have been helpful there, but the down side is outside of my work I have no life to speak of ... Lab rats in psych lab in many way lead a more interesting life than me... I get up and go to gym and " run on my exercise wheel, " come home eat my rat pellets (a bowl of oatmeal) go to work where I solve puzzles (run mazes) eat some more pellets (tuna or turkey sandwich), repeat last two steps, run more mazes, go home, go to the gym, run in the wheel some more, push some weights around, go home, eat pellets (chicken breast and broccoli), go to bed, repeat from beginning ad nauseoum .. real lab rats get visits from lady lab rats once and a while, I think the rats have a better agents. Don't get me wrong it's no a bad life I'm comfortable and not unhappy alone but not really lonely... But it would be nice to have a live person to talk to now and then, typing here helps but it's not the same... This has taken a different course than I had intended and I've gotten rather depressed in the last few minutes... I've babbled enough for now... If I can remember the point I was going for I'll come be and finish. Ender At 12:12 PM 7/18/2007, you wrote: >I love that cartoon and so does Mitch... soemtimes I look at mitch >and wonder why others can't see what I see... I know why they cant >but it is so frustrating. I have been telling people the same thing >about creating the habit of social skills. and you are right no >matter what they teach him he still feels like he does not fit in. >It is so hard for him to remember to do what they try to teach him. >He does great with family and really has blossomed when we are >around them but have never done well in groups I think he cannot >filter all the infromation coming in at him at once. > >Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 " Have not had the guts to teach him how to use the lawn mower. May be I should as he is more than old enough and I think it might give him a sense of responsibility. " See how he fares with other (less dangerous) power tools first, such as a weed-wacker, a hedge trimmer, and an edger. If he seems uncoordinated, hold off on the lawn mower for a while. Tom Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 " I cannot tell you how much this helps me to understand more what Mitch is all about. And yes the bi-polar mix in is very interesing... and to be totally honest there are days I just do not want to go home, but I always do. " Many Aspies DO have a bipolar co-morbidity, but one has to be careful about that. It is said that many Aspies seem unresponsive or unemotional to average, run of the mill stimuli, but then they can blow up over trivia, or they can express " too much " joy over triffles. This can be mistaken for bipolar disorder. Aspies can may explode for no APPARENT reason, but they, in their minds, can have a very good one. I used to blow up at my mom during my adolescent years very frequently, because the standards she held me to were ones which she would not hold herself up to. Even now as a 38 year old adult I still get upset with her but tend to hold it in. Most of what I used to get upset about with her is memory lapses. My mother would spend afternoons knitting in front of the TV and watch an hour and a half of news before making dinner. During dinner, we would all discuss the news and she would get all the facts wrong. I would correct her on those facts. Dad too. And then maybe at a family gathering, she would repeat what she'd heard on the news with the facts still wrong. I would blow up at her then, feeling that I had not been listened to: " I told you that THIS is what happened! " To which she would respond: " Well I didn't hear it that way! " To which I would respond: " Three weeks ago at dinner, dad and I corrected you at the dining room table over dinner and told you the facts. " Her reply: " YOU DID NOT! NOW SHUT UP! " " I did too, and maybe if you paid attention and didn't have three whisky dstraights before dinner you would have remembered what it was dad and I where talking about instead of some incorrect facts lodged in your own head. " Then I would of course get grounded, and the cycle would repeat itself when she would misrember something else, except this time, at the dinner table, when I corrected her, I would say " I don't know why I'm correcting you, you will have have forgotten at the next family gathering anyway. Better you look stupid in front of all those people than I get grounded. " To which she would reply: " I don't remember forgetting anything at the last family gathering. And don't you talk that way to your mother! You're grounded. " I would mutter something about being plotzo at the gathering and get some extra days tacked on to my sentence. Thus I would have this constant rage inside of me for most of my adolescence. My father used to take me aside periodically and tell me that as I got older, I would hit certain milestones in my life where I would become more like them, and I have since PASSED the ages that he was at when he gave me those lectures, and I have NOT hit those milestones. Yet I see other adults my age hitting those milestones. So as an Aspie you begin to feel after a while that you are an alien being who misses out on some of the worst portions of " normal " life and keep the best parts, but the trouble is, when you try to share that with your parents, they don't remember what they were like ten years ago so none of it matters. Anyway, were my outbursts inappropriate? Yes. However, why guild the lilly? My mother was an alcoholic, and I was the only one out of the whole family at that time who had guts enough to confront her about it. Everyone else in my family let her alcoholism progress, with the exception of my sister, who became a very religious person and tried to get her to quit about five years ago. Conversely, Aspies tend to be very observant, and there is much joy to be found in...say...watching a squirrel build a nest. Or maybe our extra sensitive eyes allow us to see really cool blends of color in a rainbow, so we get excited about stuff that most people could care less about. The mundane, most of us don't care for, so if someone gets excited because some new style of clothes is now being marketed, we won't care. Tom Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 One of the things you can dispense with if you are anti-social is a wardrobe. From an Aspie point of view, being social is pointlessly expensive. From our perspective, people do not like PEOPLE. They like IMAGES that people present. It costs money to maintain images: " In " clothing, flashy cars, jewelry, expensive haircuts, manicures. Some of the most deep and insightful people I have ever met are HERE in this forum, but because of the way we Aspies dress, I doubt anyone walking down the street would give us a second glance. I dress up nicely for business, but once people get to know me, they feel I am too " deep. " By contrast, I feel that such people are too " shallow " ...but always well-dressed. Yes, for Aspies dress can be functional only. But our clothes are also representative of what we like and who we are. Lots of times the clothes people wear they wear because society tells them that that is what they have to wear to be " in. " I've known women who spend hours fussing over make-up, hair, and what to wear. Men too. All this wasted expense, time, and worrying over being social. It is inefficient and silly. And if you STILL don't get it right, society rejects you. The advantage of not caring about having friends is that you never have to spend money maintaining friendships, and you don't care if people reject you. In this respect, I think Aspies have it better than non-Aspies. e.g. There is no psychological torment because someone thinks you have bad hair and won't hang out with you. Tom Administrator , Thank you for your input, could it be the simplicity of the clothing and the ease of use that makes it so appealing? Mitch is the same way- ;0) he does not like to have to think about what matches... UNLESS he is dressing up then everything has to be perfect- grey pants & jacket- bright red or maroon tie and a grey or black shirt... almost monocromatic- except for the tie. Very Very picky when it comes to dressing up. All these idosyncrasys (sorry my spelling is atrocious) make for a very interesting life in my house. Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 In a message dated 7/19/2007 1:33:22 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes: One of the things you can dispense with if you are anti-social is a wardrobe. Nothing anti-social about it. I think it might more accurate to say asocial, like being asexual: you don't have anything against society really, you just don't care to get involved with it. From an Aspie point of view, being social is pointlessly expensive. From our perspective, people do not like PEOPLE. They like IMAGES that people present. It costs money to maintain images: "In" clothing, flashy cars, jewelry, expensive haircuts, manicures. My economics professor used to say that all those college kids and street kids who complained about being poor and having no money should just look at their cars and clothes. They would spend fortunes on sounds system, paint jobs, rims and spinners, designer clothes, jewelry, etc. If they didn't do that, they would have plenty of money. He aptly put it that they were choosing popularity and (I'll be polite) "one night stands" over investing in the future and finding someone they could start a family with. "Some of the most deep and insightful people I have ever met are HERE in this forum, but because of the way we Aspies dress, I doubt anyone walking down the street would give us a second glance. I dress up nicely for business, but once people get to know me, they feel I am too "deep." By contrast, I feel that such people are too "shallow"...but always well-dressed." They don't, or at least not people that we are interested in. People are shallow too. They judge a lot about a person based on how they are dressed, or whatever. Most get a real surprise if they actually bother to talk to me, as on the train or whatever. But that is nothing new: people thought Einstein was some rumpled old man until they were told who he was. Besides, I like the look on people's faces when they are sort of looking down on me and I tell them that I own my own business. You'd be surprised how impressed and/or jealous people get when they here that YOU are the boss and not just an employee. Mind you, I don't say anything about that unless I am specifically asked. "Yes, for Aspies dress can be functional only. But our clothes are also representative of what we like and who we are. Lots of times the clothes people wear they wear because society tells them that that is what they have to wear to be "in." " For me it is being functional and not having to worry about keeping them too clean and neat, meaning with creases and all that. I used to go dressy casual but gave that up as being a waste of time, since dressing nicely had no effect on the way people reacted to me. So, that being the case, why put forth too much effort? I still look OK, and I don't go out in public in dirty clothes, etc, just I don't make too much of an effort to impress. I have been told I look good in a suit, but I don't put much stock in that: most politicians and lawyers look good in suits too, but that doesn't make them any less of a sleaze ball. "I've known women who spend hours fussing over make-up, hair, and what to wear. Men too. All this wasted expense, time, and worrying over being social. It is inefficient and silly. And if you STILL don't get it right, society rejects you." My childhood best friend's, wasn't really but only tolerated me because I was one of the few other kids in this neighborhood, mother was like that and still is. She'll take hours to get ready. People say she is attractive and all that, but I just don't see it, never have. Perhaps I knew her for what she was and just couldn't see beyond that. "The advantage of not caring about having friends is that you never have to spend money maintaining friendships, and you don't care if people reject you. In this respect, I think Aspies have it better than non-Aspies. e.g. There is no psychological torment because someone thinks you have bad hair and won't hang out with you.TomAdministrator" That might be a little overstated. I have a few friends and we look out for each other. If I'm sick, I can usually call one of them, or more precisely I should say him, since I'm not too sure about the others really, and he would pick up some things for me at the store. Very helpful when I had that norovirus that was going around. I do the same. He would like it if I dresses a little more white collar, but I don't see the need to, unless I have to. There is some torment over appearance and lack of acceptance, but then I just remind myself of what kind of vermin are being like that, and it goes away some. Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 In a message dated 7/19/2007 10:58:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, no_reply writes: You have hit the nail on the head.. Mitch has those outbursts and is fightenly honest which can be great and then not.... I do try to help him understand that burtal honestly is not always the right thing to do. "Social graces" are hard for him. That is something that can be learned, though. Tact is something some people are born with, but most have to learn it. A simple way to look at it is to think before speaking, "would I get upset if someone said that to me?" That's a good start, but isn't perfect for us, because sometimes that thing might not bother us at all, but would really hurt or anger someone else. I handle that by keeping my own council most of the time, unless I know the people and know how far I can go. I also try not to be blunt and wave off certain kinds of questions, like what to I think about a person's clothes, hair, or what do I think about someone who isn't around at the moment. Those kinds of things are just begging for trouble. It gets easier over time to learn tact, what to say and not to and when. It helps to observe other people's reactions and learn to guess what things are likely to make people mad and what isn't. From there you learn to keep your mouth shut or phrase it in such a way as to be milder. Not always easy, but it can be done, most of the time. On the other hand, being honest can be a good thing. If you speak but little but when you do speak, you are right on the money (and you do it in an inoffensive way), then you can get a good reputation. If people know that when you actually bother to speak, what you have to saw will be important, they tend to listen. They might not act on what you say, but they will listen. Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Tom Will do... he is not very coordinated. R > > " Have not had the guts to teach him how to use the lawn mower. May > be I should as he is more than old enough and I think it might give > him a sense of responsibility. " > > See how he fares with other (less dangerous) power tools first, such > as a weed-wacker, a hedge trimmer, and an edger. If he seems > uncoordinated, hold off on the lawn mower for a while. > > Tom > Administrator > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Ender, You and the others in this group are helping me in more ways than I can count..... I really apprecieate all your openess- I know that the things you tell me in here can make you feel depressed and I am not going to sit here and tell you it will be alright... I can empathize with what you are going through, and even relate in some manner as I to do the same thing in and out every day and see the same people, so we do have some things alike.... I have been married to a wonderful man for 23 years and I get lonely all the time- sometimes I wonder if I am not a bit of an aspie myself... as a child I always was parinoid that the other kids were talking about me and I have always not gotten the joke as they say.... I know genetics play a part but wonder as I watch the issues he goes through and remember feeling the same way when I was young.... Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Ender, You and the others in this group are helping me in more ways than I can count..... I really apprecieate all your openess- I know that the things you tell me in here can make you feel depressed and I am not going to sit here and tell you it will be alright... I can empathize with what you are going through, and even relate in some manner as I to do the same thing in and out every day and see the same people, so we do have some things alike.... I have been married to a wonderful man for 23 years and I get lonely all the time- sometimes I wonder if I am not a bit of an aspie myself... as a child I always was parinoid that the other kids were talking about me and I have always not gotten the joke as they say.... I know genetics play a part but wonder as I watch the issues he goes through and remember feeling the same way when I was young.... Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Tom, You have hit the nail on the head.. Mitch has those outbursts and is fightenly honest which can be great and then not.... I do try to help him understand that burtal honestly is not always the right thing to do. " Social graces " are hard for him. You said, > Conversely, Aspies tend to be very observant, and there is much joy to > be found in...say...watching a squirrel build a nest. Or maybe our > extra sensitive eyes allow us to see really cool blends of color in a > rainbow, so we get excited about stuff that most people could care > less about. > > The mundane, most of us don't care for, so if someone gets excited > because some new style of clothes is now being marketed, we won't care. > and you are so on the mark is was scary.... this is mitch to a t. he right now is engrossed in japanese art or anything oriental... we even have painted bamboo screens with chinese words and made pillows and purchased screen dividers... he is in heaven. We got him the Art Of Japanese Tea- (a boxed set with rituals and samples) and he now has a tea hut (makeshift) in his room... I draw the line at fire... but he can heat the water on the stove and then put it in his tea catche and go from there... he loves it. Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Tom You wrote: > The advantage of not caring about having friends is that you never > have to spend money maintaining friendships, and you don't care if > people reject you. In this respect, I think Aspies have it better > than non-Aspies. e.g. There is no psychological torment because > someone thinks you have bad hair and won't hang out with you. First i laughed out loud at the last sentence... because that is always how I feel... If you do not like what I look like or how I dress, or how my hair is done... look the other way... I am me and whoever does not like it tough Sh*t. Mitch is the same way... the bad part is although we have these thoughts and we truly don't care... our hearts are on our sleeves and we do get hurt by the nasty comments and the hurtful words. I am an adult and I just ignore and move on... teaching Mitch how to handle it is still difficult. Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Not worring is something that mitch sometimes does and then there are times when he gets frustrated about what others think and wants to know why he is different and how come they (the docs) can't fix it. Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 > > Hi Ender, > It is a bit of missed social activies due to his lack of interest > and inablility to handle large groups and is apathy and > unwillingness to take on regular responsibilities of daily life, > coupled with a huge sense of what is right and wrong in his eyes and > being completely unable to comprimise. There is s world and our world, I DO NOT want to > change my funny, charming,intelligent, wonderful son, I do however, > want to at least help him gain the skills that our society deems > neccesary for him to exist in the world. Hello I am mimi. If I may jump in a moment. You need to first build a bridge to his world and help him visit yours so that as a family you share. If you can do this you can reason with him and have him realize that you love him, value him, and want to help him achieve what he wants. ..My main issues to cut to > the chase are hygiene- (hairwashing is a 1 or 2 times every 2 weeks- > a major battle, I believe it is due to hypersensitive skin...face > washing, and brushing of teeth all are a major battles) and Changing > of clothes on a daily basis. Ya know if I could get this part of it > handled, I believe I could help him in other areas. > Thanks for listening to me rant...lol. > > ROse My son is only 6. He also dislikes the bathing thing and I do not fight with him every day more like 3 times a week. we don't fight anymore. i wash him. i get the temp where he likes it. i use a shampoo that is called Rainbow. It is made of non-irritating sufercants. so no eye burning. we do a psudo-bath. I run the water, but the tub doesn't fill up. I only pour water over his head to wet and rinse. We have come to this after long discussion and agreement. the wahing is for him and right now he values being " not- stinky " I also wash our dogs for him so he can pet them. so the need for washing is reinforced for other important " people " , Also obtaining friends is easier when one smells better. Tooth brushing maybe a sensory issue too. Ravi actually prefers mint, but doesn't like it to stay on his tongue. i have a washcloth and I will wipe his tongue afterward and then use water. he also hates to have his face wet. the point of my recount is that perhaps small things get in the way of the action and he hasn't been able to communicate the roadblocks. As far as clothing goes. I make sure he changes at night. the clothes are wisked away and washed immeadiatily and if it is that a shirt is a preference, it is available the next am. Maybe even get multiple shirts. i have heard parents say they just get 3 of the same shirt, shoes pants shorts etc. i also ask what he wants to wear. texture can play a big role and sometimes I make a mistake and a shirt never gets worn. (he hates plackets) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 > By the way, I am not a doctor, so everything I just said you ought > to run past a professional. > > Tom > Administrator > Tom in that meeting I mentioned the doctors turned to myself and another mom and acknowledged that we are the experts. but just like professionals we have different opinions. your input was sound and pragmatic far more valuable than a " professional " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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