frustration

[Guest guest]

> ,

> >

> > I think you're at the same stage as I am....we really only have a few

> > more pounds to take off. Those are the hardest ones to get off. I

> > feel the same way about being pretty toned, but there's this little

> > layer of fat over my stomach muscles that I'd really like to get rid

> > of. What helped keep me motivated was seeing TQ on QVC this morning.

> > Her stomach has come a long way in this past year. She was really

> > toned. If you notice in most of the videos, she's always wearing a

> > tank top that doesn't really show her stomach. Well, this morning she

> > had on a shirt that showed her whole stomach (it might of just been a

> > jogbra or a taebo shirt cut and tied). She has really toned up those

> > muscles. I think it just takes a lot of time. I'm definitely stuck at

> > this weight right now, but that's ok...because my body has undergone

> > enormous change in the last year, and maybe it just needs to regroup

> > for awhile. I know that if I keep doing what I am doing, that I will

> > continue to tone and that I will eventually reach my goal. Just keep

> > doing what you are doing and remember that it's harder when you only

> > have a few pounds to lose to get to your goal. I know it can be

> > frustrating at times, but it will come eventually

> >

> >

> > who can understand where is coming from

> >

> , my abs thank you for giving them some more time to improve. If TBQ

can do it, we can do it.

Elena

[Guest guest]

Agaw12577@... wrote:

>

>I know

> what you mean about the frozen WW meals. I don't even bother with them

> anymore. For about the same calories you could have a grilled chicken breast,

> some veggies and a big salad and feel much more satisfied!

>

I agree with , . The portions are just not satisfying to

me and you can cook with more taste yourself.

Elena

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/11/00 5:28:53 PM Central Standard Time,

etcarroll@... writes:

<<

I felt the same way about an ab-showing top and wanting to look like

. Remember she is a very tall woman. We 5'6 " women may have

shorter (and wider) tummies. My abs aren't ready for prime time yet

either. I bought some cute work out tops that go just over the belt

line. I guess you could even wear a leotard under your pants or

shorts. Well at least you can fill out your tops; mine always look like

there is room for a few more up there. We can have a dress rehearsal on

Wed. night.

Elena, who is glad, I guess, that just has the Crud, whatever

that is. >>

AHHH...I'm only 5'4...barely. HA HA. Ya'll will laugh because when I'm not

sneakers I wear tall shoes all the time....it balances my chest better

:-)....which if you want to borrow to fill out you letoard...go ahead and

keep it.

Who found one pair of striped pants, one pair of all black capri leggings and

one top thus far.....off to comb the thrift stores tomorrow.

[Guest guest]

>

> I know most Brides forget to eat at therir wedding...but I will

probably stuff my face :-) I love Crawfish and BBQ and cake and beer..

OH....the calories :-)

>

,

Didn't you know..calories never stick to a bride on her wedding day!

So, enjoy yourself..but lend a Tae-Bo tape to the maid of

honor..because it's her job to take your calories for the day.

Maybe you're more stressed than you realize with so many things

happening for you? Why don't you go easy on yourself for a while? Take

a few days off and don't feel guilty about it..in the grand scheme of

things a few days off isn't going to hurt you unless you beat yourself

up about it. We all need a break from time to time..even from the

things we love.

I'm sure that your motivation will be through the roof once you go

out to CA.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/11/2000 12:08:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Aimattae@... writes:

<< .I think maybe I am

going to go to the doctor because I just am not feeling so well lately. >>

Amy

You're sweet to be so supportive of someone else when you're feeling so down!

Its definitely a good idea to talk to your doc to see what he/she suggests,

you may feel better just talking about it to him/her.

Take care.

Chrissy

202.5/188/140-145

10% goal=182

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/11/2000 12:47:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,

slowens@... writes:

<< What helped keep me motivated was seeing TQ >>

Which one is TQ, I read her post that Barb posted but which one is she in the

videos?

Chrissy

202.5/188/140-145

10% goal=182

[Guest guest]

bobbysgirl-@... wrote:

original article:tae-bo_on/?start=11522

> Which one is TQ, I read her post that Barb posted but which one is

she in the

> videos?

which tapes do you have? She's only in the live tapes. She was also

on QVC...her name is . She was the one on the right side (of

the tv screen) if you caught any of the qvc stuff.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 02/13/2000 11:19:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Bobbysgirl6@... writes:

<< .I think maybe I am

going to go to the doctor because I just am not feeling so well lately. >>

Amy

You're sweet to be so supportive of someone else when you're feeling so

down!

Its definitely a good idea to talk to your doc to see what he/she suggests,

you may feel better just talking about it to him/her.

Take care.

Chrissy

202.5/188/140-145

10% goal=182 >>

Thanks Chrissy,

I appreciate the niceness!!! LOL

I feel better only when I know that I can make others feel better:)

AmyK

[Guest guest]

Amen sister!!!

God bless, Bonnie

**********************************************With God, ALL things are possible.**********************************************

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/6/01 10:02:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

writes:

> Then he goes

> and makes one silly mistake with something and he then only writes that

> letter or number wrong, like he has undone, in one go, all the weeks of

> learning. 

>

We've pretty much dispensed with writing goals on the IEP, because of this

trait in Sheila. At this point I am convinced that Sheila will never learn to

read or do math also--but I haven't voiced this out loud to the team, because

the team isn't ready to quit trying to teach her to read or do simple math.

nancy

[Guest guest]

Sue, I have the same problem with the writing here.

(9) was forming all his letters wrong because he

was drawing them not following basic writing. He would

get them correct then slip back. The writing program

Handwriting without tears has helped so much this

year. I am really raving about it because the change

in his writing is very dramatic. is not perfect

but is getting better. He has used the program for one

school year. You can get it off the net just type in

handwriting without tears in a search. Pam PS sorry

this is so late in responding.

--- sue wong <sbntwong@...> wrote:

> Hi,

> I am wondering if we are alone or not with this one.

> It seems to be that

> Tim will learn something, eg he has learnt to spell

> 11 words to date and can

> write his numbers 1-20 independantly. He spelt

> these words great, with good

> letter formation and ditto to the numbers, correct

> formation. Then he goes

> and makes one silly mistake with something and he

> then only writes that

> letter or number wrong, like he has undone, in one

> go, all the weeks of

> learning. for instance he used to do a beautiful 5

> but now writes a

> backward 'c', and his 'd' looked like an 'a' for

> ages but now looks like a

> 'q'. He is starting his letters and numbers in the

> wrong places and so they

> are getting muddled. It invariably takes as long

> again and sometimes twice

> as long to reteach him the skill he effectively

> untaught himself. I get SO

> frustrated particularly as he gets really cross to

> be told he has made a

> mistake. Then he starts with the forced tears, he

> will screw up his face

> until he can squeeze at least one out but by then he

> is so intent on whining

> that he can't concentrate on anything else. If I

> give in to him then the

> whining and tears simply start earlier the next time

> so I don't budge until

> he finishes his homework. Today, what could have

> taken a maximum of 20

> minutes took one and a half hours. Sigh, I don't

> know why he suddenly

> starts doing things differently or why once he has

> done it wrong only once

> after dozens of correct times he then can't do it

> right again for ages. Is

> this a tim thing or something other kids with DS do

> too?

> Sue Wong

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Dear Z.,

I don't have any great help for handling the frustration - others on this list will be full of wonderful suggestions I know (they are the best) - but I just felt that I had to tell you that we all have been there and understand. I spent a good half hour in the shower crying today (it would have been an hour but I live in Nevada and even OCD frustration doesn't win out over water conservation issues!!). My daughter has lots of meltdowns and often our whole lives seem to revolve around her OCD. Her younger brother is certainly growing up in the shadow of it and my life has been reduced to basically full-time OCD manager. The only suggestion I have is to try hard to remember that it is an illness, not your son, that is causing this and eventually he will get better. The right medication is a godsend, but good therapy can also make a tremendous difference. My daughter switched meds this past month and we went through an AWFUL time with her begging us to kill her, saying she hated her life, her family, had no friends, etc. This week she is basically her old self again - still the same old OCD, but she is cheerful and outgoing again. Your situation will improve as well. I dont' remember if you said how old your son is, but if he is old enough to learn more about OCD he will have more hope. When Annie is feeling really bad, I hand her some of the books I got her about kids with OCD, and she always feels a little more hopeful afterward.

Remember to get enough sleep and find some way to take breaks. OCD is EXHAUSTING to deal with, but getting away for a little while makes a huge difference.

Good luck to you and your family,

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris:

I am sorry that your family is going through such a tough time right now.

OCD is a very cruel disorder that takes a lot out of sufferers and their

loved ones.

Probably your son's doc has already told you that sometimes an SSRI can

cause symptoms to worsen at first. That is usually a good sign that the

medication will be effective for OCD. It sounds like your son's symptoms

are worsening a bit after starting Paxil so this may well be happening.

This certainly happened to my son, Steve, when he started Paxil. His

behavior got very difficult and his depression worsened considerably at first.

Crying is not a bad idea and a very normal response to such a difficult

situation. Do you have anyone who can support you who understands the

impact of OCD on a family? It is important to grieve about what has

happened to your family as this will prepare you to cope with the journey

toward recovery. It is helpful to work on keeping family life as calm as

possible during these times so finding ways to process your emotions away

from your son will help him keep things together more. I can say this was

not always possible in our family and we lived literally from moment to

moment as day to day seemed impossible.

Sometimes I would visualize OCD as a merry-go-round that I was on and

needed to hold on with all my strength until it slowed down. This would

help me focus on the moment. The true key is getting effective treatment

and I would suggest you contact your son's doc and let them know how truly

difficult things are at home. Stepping up therapy or augmenting meds

temporarily might help get through this time. It sounds like depression

has got your son in his grip and this is a very treatable condition. Until

his depression is under control it is unlikely that he will be able to make

swift strides with doing E & RP.

Please keep us posted on your son's progress, take care, aloha, kathy (h)

kathyh@...

09:10 PM 05/20/2001 -0000, you wrote:

>To everyone, Any ideas on how your family handles the frustration

>that OCD causes? My son has a problem with outbursts daily. This

>includes saying over and over that he wants to be in the hospital,

>that he does not want to live, that he hates his family. He has

>isolated himself from every activity and friends. He just started

>taking paxil two weeks ago after trying zoloft and luvox. Yes we are

>working with a therapist that is knowledgable in OCD treatment. The

>daily frustration is hard to know how to handle. Often I feel like

>just sitting and crying forever. But I know this is a bad idea. Any

>ideas would be considered helpful. Thanks for listening. Z.

[Guest guest]

HUGS CHRIS!

The way we used to handle frustration at home was to yell and scream

at each other! Boy was that fun! One good thing came of it though.

Since my daughter hated THAT as much I did, she decided that she

would again go to therapy. This time with me. It has only been

three weeks, but things have calmed down a bit. Therapy has taught

me ways to " walk away " . Although the frustration is still there, I

am dealing with it by doing something else instead of aguing and

yelling. (IS that " bossing back " OCD?) Sometimes dealing with it IS

going to my room and crying. Nothing wrong with that. The therapist

did suggest that I get back on an antidepressant. Are you taking any

meds yourself? That may help your own frustration. I haven't yet

decided whether or not to go back on meds since Prozac, Paxil and

Zoloft made me extremely sleepy and interfered with intimacy. My

daughter hasn't begun any therapy yet for OCD itself, since she

adamantly says she is " cured " . The psychologist is approaching the

therapy slowly via the " family " problem but that does incorporate the

outbursts which you describe with your son. Maybe when we get to the

core of the matter of OCD, I will need to get back on meds.

> To everyone, Any ideas on how your family handles the

frustration

> that OCD causes? My son has a problem with outbursts daily. This

> includes saying over and over that he wants to be in the hospital,

> that he does not want to live, that he hates his family. He has

> isolated himself from every activity and friends. He just started

> taking paxil two weeks ago after trying zoloft and luvox. Yes we

are

> working with a therapist that is knowledgable in OCD treatment.

The

> daily frustration is hard to know how to handle. Often I feel like

> just sitting and crying forever. But I know this is a bad idea.

Any

> ideas would be considered helpful. Thanks for listening. Z.

[Guest guest]

> To everyone, Any ideas on how your family handles the

frustration

> that OCD causes? My son has a problem with outbursts daily. This

> includes saying over and over that he wants to be in the hospital,

> that he does not want to live, that he hates his family. He has

> isolated himself from every activity and friends. He just started

> taking paxil two weeks ago after trying zoloft and luvox. Yes we

are

> working with a therapist that is knowledgable in OCD treatment.

The

> daily frustration is hard to know how to handle. Often I feel like

> just sitting and crying forever. But I know this is a bad idea.

Any

> ideas would be considered helpful. Thanks for listening. Z.

Lot's of hugs and support to YOU! I know how mind-boggling mood

swings are and the only way to save your sanity is to DETACH,

DISENGAGE and walk away! That is sooooo hard to do when you think

your son is coming apart at the seams, however, is there any better

way to demonstrate your faith in his ability to handle his own

problems? Is there any better way to demonstrate your FAITH in a

Higher Power that takes care of us, especially our children? Is

there a better way to demonstrate that OCD is a grain of sand on the

beach of LIFE? He's going to be FINE. Believe that and it will

be so!

Once, when I was VERY depressed due to several things, a friend told

me something that I thought at the time was extremely INSENSITIVE!

She said, 'Joni- get off the pity pot. Depression is nothing more

than wallowing in self-pity. Focus and be grateful for what you DO

have instead of being focused on what you DONT have.' Wow-- what a

slap in the face to wake me up! But, it was what I needed to

hear! She was absolutely right, I *was* being selfish and

thinking 'poor me.' When we focus on what's wrong with our lives, we

get more of it. When we focus on what's RIGHT and count our

blessings, it multiplies! When our kids see us worrying and

wallowing in self-pity, they worry and wallow too. 'If mama ain't

happy, nobody is happy.' Get happy, Chris. Find something that YOU

love and do more of it. Get a good book (something juicy with lots

of SPICE) and forget about him!! Unless, of course, he's suicidal,

in which case he DOES need immediate medical attention. If his

problems aren't life-threatening, let go and focus on yourself.

You're worth it!!!

What *I've* found about dealing with mental illness (and believe me,

it's all around me - and the sickness of others made me crazy at one

point too!) is that THEY BOUNCE BACK after these episodes like

nothing happened!! Me? I'm left with the backlash of it - being

strong through it-- but falling apart afterwards. This tells me that

I over-committed myself again. I forgot to draw the line in the sand

and take care of MYSELF through the episode!! I forgot to let go and

detach myself from it. Is it any wonder, with sons who are ADHD and

OCD, a mother-in-law with severe OCD and a sister with bipolar, that

I felt completely drained and depressed? I forgot about my BOUNDRIES

and LIMITATIONS!

My sister (with bipolar) is just now coming out of a SEVERE

depressed phase and you know what she said to me when I was

complaining about her illness and it's effects on me? She said, 'Why

didn't you take care of yourself?' LOL Good question!!! She

continued with, 'If you were in a boat that was sinking, would you

save me instead of yourself?' I said, 'Yeah- I probably would.' She

replied, 'and you think *I'm* nuts? Look at YOU! Save

YOURSELF!' The trick is - make sure everyone has a life-

preserver (meds, therapy, other resources) and that's all you can

do. You're ONLY human! Get out of the way and let Bigger Hands

(or 'God') take over.

Don't lose faith, - model it! And don't let OCD steal your JOY!

Peace and happiness to you and yours,

Joni

~Letting Go~

To let go doesn't mean to stop caring.

It means I can't do it for someone else.

To let go isn't to cut myself off.

It's the realization that I can't control another.

Rather than to enable...it is to allow learning from

natural consequences.

Letting go is to admit powerlessness.

Meaning the outcome is not in my hands.

It is not to try to change or blame another; but

knowing that I can only change *myself.*

Instead of caring for, it is to care about.

It is to be supportive instead of to fix.

To let go is not to judge, but to allow another to be

a human being.

To allow others to effect their own outcomes, instead

of being in the middle arranging all the outcomes.

It is not to be protective but to permit another to

face reality.

To let go is not to deny but to accept.

Not to nag, scold or argue, but rather to search out

my *own* shortcomings and to correct them.

To let go is not to adjust everything to my own

desires but to take Each day as it comes and to cherish each moment.

Not to criticize and to regulate anyone, but to try to

become the dream I can be.

Instead of regret for the past...

It is to grow and live for the future,

To fear less and to love more.

-Author unknown

[Guest guest]

Hi , Thank you so much for your reply to frustration. My son is 12 and doesn't understand why this has happened to him. Dying, hating us, hating himself, and isolation are very diffucult. We are hoping for better days. Thanks Z.

Re: frustration

Dear Z., I don't have any great help for handling the frustration - others on this list will be full of wonderful suggestions I know (they are the best) - but I just felt that I had to tell you that we all have been there and understand. I spent a good half hour in the shower crying today (it would have been an hour but I live in Nevada and even OCD frustration doesn't win out over water conservation issues!!). My daughter has lots of meltdowns and often our whole lives seem to revolve around her OCD. Her younger brother is certainly growing up in the shadow of it and my life has been reduced to basically full-time OCD manager. The only suggestion I have is to try hard to remember that it is an illness, not your son, that is causing this and eventually he will get better. The right medication is a godsend, but good therapy can also make a tremendous difference. My daughter switched meds this past month and we went through an AWFUL time with her begging us to kill her, saying she hated her life, her family, had no friends, etc. This week she is basically her old self again - still the same old OCD, but she is cheerful and outgoing again. Your situation will improve as well. I dont' remember if you said how old your son is, but if he is old enough to learn more about OCD he will have more hope. When Annie is feeling really bad, I hand her some of the books I got her about kids with OCD, and she always feels a little more hopeful afterward. Remember to get enough sleep and find some way to take breaks. OCD is EXHAUSTING to deal with, but getting away for a little while makes a huge difference. Good luck to you and your family, You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to the OCD and Homeschooling List at ocdandhomeschooling-subscribe . You may change your subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives for our list at . Our list advisors are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D. Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail Pesses, Kathy , and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at lharkins@... .

[Guest guest]

Dear :

I'm finally getting to read my posts from a couple of days ago. Thank you for your post to Z re frustration. Your dealings with your daughter and how it affects you and your family sounds like ours. It is nice to realize that there are other people out there suffering the same things; and I'm glad we have this venue to share our struggles and triumphs. Thanks for sharing.

Where do you live in Nevada -- we lived in Reno for 13 months (wow!!! 97 - 98).

Tamra

Re: frustration

Dear Z., I don't have any great help for handling the frustration - others on this list will be full of wonderful suggestions I know (they are the best) - but I just felt that I had to tell you that we all have been there and understand. I spent a good half hour in the shower crying today (it would have been an hour but I live in Nevada and even OCD frustration doesn't win out over water conservation issues!!). My daughter has lots of meltdowns and often our whole lives seem to revolve around her OCD. Her younger brother is certainly growing up in the shadow of it and my life has been reduced to basically full-time OCD manager. The only suggestion I have is to try hard to remember that it is an illness, not your son, that is causing this and eventually he will get better. The right medication is a godsend, but good therapy can also make a tremendous difference. My daughter switched meds this past month and we went through an AWFUL time with her begging us to kill her, saying she hated her life, her family, had no friends, etc. This week she is basically her old self again - still the same old OCD, but she is cheerful and outgoing again. Your situation will improve as well. I dont' remember if you said how old your son is, but if he is old enough to learn more about OCD he will have more hope. When Annie is feeling really bad, I hand her some of the books I got her about kids with OCD, and she always feels a little more hopeful afterward. Remember to get enough sleep and find some way to take breaks. OCD is EXHAUSTING to deal with, but getting away for a little while makes a huge difference. Good luck to you and your family, You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to the OCD and Homeschooling List at ocdandhomeschooling-subscribe . You may change your subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives for our list at . Our list advisors are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D. Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail Pesses, Kathy , and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at lharkins@... .

[Guest guest]

I read your post to -- good advice. I am on anti-depression

medication too. I am on Wellbutrin and Effexor and they do not make me

sleeping and I have a lot of energy -- boy, did it help me with my

frustration level living with my OCDer.

Tamra

Re: frustration

>

>

> HUGS CHRIS!

> The way we used to handle frustration at home was to yell and scream

> at each other! Boy was that fun! One good thing came of it though.

> Since my daughter hated THAT as much I did, she decided that she

> would again go to therapy. This time with me. It has only been

> three weeks, but things have calmed down a bit. Therapy has taught

> me ways to " walk away " . Although the frustration is still there, I

> am dealing with it by doing something else instead of aguing and

> yelling. (IS that " bossing back " OCD?) Sometimes dealing with it IS

> going to my room and crying. Nothing wrong with that. The therapist

> did suggest that I get back on an antidepressant. Are you taking any

> meds yourself? That may help your own frustration. I haven't yet

> decided whether or not to go back on meds since Prozac, Paxil and

> Zoloft made me extremely sleepy and interfered with intimacy. My

> daughter hasn't begun any therapy yet for OCD itself, since she

> adamantly says she is " cured " . The psychologist is approaching the

> therapy slowly via the " family " problem but that does incorporate the

> outbursts which you describe with your son. Maybe when we get to the

> core of the matter of OCD, I will need to get back on meds.

>

>

> > To everyone, Any ideas on how your family handles the

> frustration

> > that OCD causes? My son has a problem with outbursts daily. This

> > includes saying over and over that he wants to be in the hospital,

> > that he does not want to live, that he hates his family. He has

> > isolated himself from every activity and friends. He just started

> > taking paxil two weeks ago after trying zoloft and luvox. Yes we

> are

> > working with a therapist that is knowledgable in OCD treatment.

> The

> > daily frustration is hard to know how to handle. Often I feel like

> > just sitting and crying forever. But I know this is a bad idea.

> Any

> > ideas would be considered helpful. Thanks for listening. Z.

>

>

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In

the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may

subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at

parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to

the OCD and Homeschooling List at

ocdandhomeschooling-subscribe . You may change your

subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives for our

list at . Our list advisors

are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D.

Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail

Pesses, Kathy , and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or

suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at

lharkins@... .

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi first, *have* you considered hospitalization for your son while he

is stabilized on his meds? He is asking to be hospitalized, and has two

failed SSRI trials behind him. He also sounds suicidal from what you write.

Hospitalization could provide him a safe place while also giving you a

much-needed break from the distress you are witnessing daily in your son and

living with yourself.

If all concerned (you, therapist, pdoc) don't believe he needs

hospitalization, you can help yourself and your son get through this rough

time as he begins the Paxil trial by doing all you can to encourage him to

*do* something. Any small step in a positive direction toward your former

lives can help dispel the frustration of this time. Does he leave the house

at all? Even a few minutes out in the backyard throwing a basketball or

whatever he used to enjoy before he got so sick will be a step forward.

Will he take a walk around the block or to a neighborhood park? Go to the

grocery to pick up a few items? Just being around other people can help him

defocus from his misery. I was surprised how physical exercise helped my

daughter, though to begin with it was very difficult to get her going. In

time she herself began distracting herself by rollerblading or jumping on

the trampoline when things got tough.

If he won't, you can reduce your own frustration by doing these types of

things yourself. Remember what you used to enjoy doing before OCD and your

concerns about your son became all-encompasing? If that was gardening, or

walking, or whatever, force yourself to do it again until taking some time

for yourself despite your son's problems begins to feel normal again. I

know from experience that this might feel disloyal, but suffering every

moment along with your son is not easing his burden and is taking so much

from you. I've written this before to others, but by forcing myself to

disengage from my daughter's OCD, I actually made it less formidable for

her. Her *own* experience of OCD was lessened in severity. BTW, when I was

first told this by a counselor, I thought " Ha, she doesn't understand at all

what we are going through " but she was right. This was very hard for me to

do, but as I look back, one of the few positive and helpful moves I made

during that time when OCD was raging and ruling us all.

During a quiet time, remind your son that yes, things are really rough and

awful right now, but better days are coming and it won't always be like

this. Make sure he knows you are on his side (despite all the acting out

and the mouth--that is the OCD, not your son) and will always be working to

help him get well. There is a med out there for him, though finding it may

try the patience of a saint. Therapy can certainly work for him if it can

work so well for my six-year-old girl.

(((Hugs Chris))) I'm sorry it's so hard right now, but better days are

ahead.

Kathy R. in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

From: <Zobels1@...>

> To everyone, Any ideas on how your family handles the frustration

> that OCD causes? My son has a problem with outbursts daily. This

> includes saying over and over that he wants to be in the hospital,

> that he does not want to live, that he hates his family. He has

> isolated himself from every activity and friends. He just started

> taking paxil two weeks ago after trying zoloft and luvox. Yes we are

> working with a therapist that is knowledgable in OCD treatment. The

> daily frustration is hard to know how to handle. Often I feel like

> just sitting and crying forever. But I know this is a bad idea. Any

> ideas would be considered helpful. Thanks for listening. Z.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, so much Joni! I am printing your post, making numerous

copies and taping it on every conceivable surface in my house!

Melinda S.

> > To everyone, Any ideas on how your family handles the

> frustration

> > that OCD causes? My son has a problem with outbursts daily.

This

> > includes saying over and over that he wants to be in the

hospital,

> > that he does not want to live, that he hates his family. He has

> > isolated himself from every activity and friends. He just

started

> > taking paxil two weeks ago after trying zoloft and luvox. Yes we

> are

> > working with a therapist that is knowledgable in OCD treatment.

> The

> > daily frustration is hard to know how to handle. Often I feel

like

> > just sitting and crying forever. But I know this is a bad idea.

> Any

> > ideas would be considered helpful. Thanks for listening. Chris

Z.

>

>

> Lot's of hugs and support to YOU! I know how mind-boggling mood

> swings are and the only way to save your sanity is to DETACH,

> DISENGAGE and walk away! That is sooooo hard to do when you think

> your son is coming apart at the seams, however, is there any better

> way to demonstrate your faith in his ability to handle his own

> problems? Is there any better way to demonstrate your FAITH in a

> Higher Power that takes care of us, especially our children? Is

> there a better way to demonstrate that OCD is a grain of sand on

the

> beach of LIFE? He's going to be FINE. Believe that and it

will

> be so!

>

> Once, when I was VERY depressed due to several things, a friend

told

> me something that I thought at the time was extremely INSENSITIVE!

> She said, 'Joni- get off the pity pot. Depression is nothing more

> than wallowing in self-pity. Focus and be grateful for what you DO

> have instead of being focused on what you DONT have.' Wow-- what a

> slap in the face to wake me up! But, it was what I needed to

> hear! She was absolutely right, I *was* being selfish and

> thinking 'poor me.' When we focus on what's wrong with our lives,

we

> get more of it. When we focus on what's RIGHT and count our

> blessings, it multiplies! When our kids see us worrying and

> wallowing in self-pity, they worry and wallow too. 'If mama ain't

> happy, nobody is happy.' Get happy, Chris. Find something that

YOU

> love and do more of it. Get a good book (something juicy with lots

> of SPICE) and forget about him!! Unless, of course, he's suicidal,

> in which case he DOES need immediate medical attention. If his

> problems aren't life-threatening, let go and focus on yourself.

> You're worth it!!!

>

> What *I've* found about dealing with mental illness (and believe

me,

> it's all around me - and the sickness of others made me crazy at

one

> point too!) is that THEY BOUNCE BACK after these episodes like

> nothing happened!! Me? I'm left with the backlash of it - being

> strong through it-- but falling apart afterwards. This tells me

that

> I over-committed myself again. I forgot to draw the line in the

sand

> and take care of MYSELF through the episode!! I forgot to let go

and

> detach myself from it. Is it any wonder, with sons who are ADHD

and

> OCD, a mother-in-law with severe OCD and a sister with bipolar,

that

> I felt completely drained and depressed? I forgot about my

BOUNDRIES

> and LIMITATIONS!

>

> My sister (with bipolar) is just now coming out of a SEVERE

> depressed phase and you know what she said to me when I was

> complaining about her illness and it's effects on me? She

said, 'Why

> didn't you take care of yourself?' LOL Good question!!! She

> continued with, 'If you were in a boat that was sinking, would you

> save me instead of yourself?' I said, 'Yeah- I probably would.'

She

> replied, 'and you think *I'm* nuts? Look at YOU! Save

> YOURSELF!' The trick is - make sure everyone has a life-

> preserver (meds, therapy, other resources) and that's all you can

> do. You're ONLY human! Get out of the way and let Bigger Hands

> (or 'God') take over.

>

> Don't lose faith, - model it! And don't let OCD steal your

JOY!

> Peace and happiness to you and yours,

> Joni

>

> ~Letting Go~

>

> To let go doesn't mean to stop caring.

>

> It means I can't do it for someone else.

>

> To let go isn't to cut myself off.

>

> It's the realization that I can't control another.

>

> Rather than to enable...it is to allow learning from

> natural consequences.

>

> Letting go is to admit powerlessness.

>

> Meaning the outcome is not in my hands.

>

> It is not to try to change or blame another; but

> knowing that I can only change *myself.*

>

> Instead of caring for, it is to care about.

>

> It is to be supportive instead of to fix.

>

> To let go is not to judge, but to allow another to be

> a human being.

>

> To allow others to effect their own outcomes, instead

> of being in the middle arranging all the outcomes.

>

> It is not to be protective but to permit another to

> face reality.

>

> To let go is not to deny but to accept.

>

> Not to nag, scold or argue, but rather to search out

> my *own* shortcomings and to correct them.

>

> To let go is not to adjust everything to my own

> desires but to take Each day as it comes and to cherish each moment.

>

> Not to criticize and to regulate anyone, but to try to

> become the dream I can be.

>

> Instead of regret for the past...

> It is to grow and live for the future,

> To fear less and to love more.

>

> -Author unknown

[Guest guest]

Thanks, thanks, thanks so much for all the wisdom this group

provides. I managed for the first time to " detach, disengage and

walk away " as Joni says.

I attend a BSA Troop Family campout/Court of Honor yesterday. My

ODCer (15 yo)who is a Life Scout and was on the fast track to Eagle

hasn't camped with the troop much this year due to his C's regarding

exercises (when would he get them done, etc.) Yesterday he was in

charge of the crew building the monkey bridge. Prior to OCD, this

would have been a highlight. By the time I arrived, the bridge was

successfully built, but was walking around with a long face

and came over to me to share his anxiety re his " workout. " I simply

told him that I had already offered my advise (skip the exercises,

live with the anxiety, survive it and next time would be easier)and

he could choose to act on it and go have some fun or he could

continue to focus on the negative. Then I suggested that while fun

comes naturally to most people that he was going to have to work at

it for a while. Finally, I said (with a smile...OK, not entirely

genuine!)that I was going to go try the monkey bridge and WALKED AWAY

without looking back. Whew! Did that feel good! eventually

rejoined the group and participated in the fun. He did begin again

during the Court of Honor, saying he was so worried about " getting

everything done " and I just said, " I know, I'm sorry " and turned back

to the program.

I did not camp, but rather returned home last night, but time will

tell what shape R will be in upon his return today.

Thanks again for all the advise!

Melinda S.

> Hi first, *have* you considered hospitalization for your son

while he

> is stabilized on his meds? He is asking to be hospitalized, and

has two

> failed SSRI trials behind him. He also sounds suicidal from what

you write.

> Hospitalization could provide him a safe place while also giving

you a

> much-needed break from the distress you are witnessing daily in

your son and

> living with yourself.

>

> If all concerned (you, therapist, pdoc) don't believe he needs

> hospitalization, you can help yourself and your son get through

this rough

> time as he begins the Paxil trial by doing all you can to encourage

him to

> *do* something. Any small step in a positive direction toward your

former

> lives can help dispel the frustration of this time. Does he leave

the house

> at all? Even a few minutes out in the backyard throwing a

basketball or

> whatever he used to enjoy before he got so sick will be a step

forward.

> Will he take a walk around the block or to a neighborhood park? Go

to the

> grocery to pick up a few items? Just being around other people can

help him

> defocus from his misery. I was surprised how physical exercise

helped my

> daughter, though to begin with it was very difficult to get her

going. In

> time she herself began distracting herself by rollerblading or

jumping on

> the trampoline when things got tough.

>

> If he won't, you can reduce your own frustration by doing these

types of

> things yourself. Remember what you used to enjoy doing before OCD

and your

> concerns about your son became all-encompasing? If that was

gardening, or

> walking, or whatever, force yourself to do it again until taking

some time

> for yourself despite your son's problems begins to feel normal

again. I

> know from experience that this might feel disloyal, but suffering

every

> moment along with your son is not easing his burden and is taking

so much

> from you. I've written this before to others, but by forcing

myself to

> disengage from my daughter's OCD, I actually made it less

formidable for

> her. Her *own* experience of OCD was lessened in severity. BTW,

when I was

> first told this by a counselor, I thought " Ha, she doesn't

understand at all

> what we are going through " but she was right. This was very hard

for me to

> do, but as I look back, one of the few positive and helpful moves I

made

> during that time when OCD was raging and ruling us all.

>

> During a quiet time, remind your son that yes, things are really

rough and

> awful right now, but better days are coming and it won't always be

like

> this. Make sure he knows you are on his side (despite all the

acting out

> and the mouth--that is the OCD, not your son) and will always be

working to

> help him get well. There is a med out there for him, though

finding it may

> try the patience of a saint. Therapy can certainly work for him if

it can

> work so well for my six-year-old girl.

>

> (((Hugs Chris))) I'm sorry it's so hard right now, but better days

are

> ahead.

>

> Kathy R. in Indiana

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: <Zobels1@m...>

>

> > To everyone, Any ideas on how your family handles the

frustration

> > that OCD causes? My son has a problem with outbursts daily. This

> > includes saying over and over that he wants to be in the hospital,

> > that he does not want to live, that he hates his family. He has

> > isolated himself from every activity and friends. He just started

> > taking paxil two weeks ago after trying zoloft and luvox. Yes we

are

> > working with a therapist that is knowledgable in OCD treatment.

The

> > daily frustration is hard to know how to handle. Often I feel

like

> > just sitting and crying forever. But I know this is a bad idea.

Any

> > ideas would be considered helpful. Thanks for listening. Chris

Z.

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy R. in Indiana.. Thank you so much for your reply. Part of Dan's

therapy is to spend 25 minutes each day outside and take a walk to the

" township lot " (about 5 minutes). The therapist does not think the hopital

is the place for Dan. Some days are better than others and I appreciate

that things will get better because you and so many others have experienced

this. Thanks. Z.

Re: frustration

> Hi first, *have* you considered hospitalization for your son while

he

> is stabilized on his meds? He is asking to be hospitalized, and has two

> failed SSRI trials behind him. He also sounds suicidal from what you

write.

> Hospitalization could provide him a safe place while also giving you a

> much-needed break from the distress you are witnessing daily in your son

and

> living with yourself.

>

> If all concerned (you, therapist, pdoc) don't believe he needs

> hospitalization, you can help yourself and your son get through this rough

> time as he begins the Paxil trial by doing all you can to encourage him to

> *do* something. Any small step in a positive direction toward your former

> lives can help dispel the frustration of this time. Does he leave the

house

> at all? Even a few minutes out in the backyard throwing a basketball or

> whatever he used to enjoy before he got so sick will be a step forward.

> Will he take a walk around the block or to a neighborhood park? Go to the

> grocery to pick up a few items? Just being around other people can help

him

> defocus from his misery. I was surprised how physical exercise helped my

> daughter, though to begin with it was very difficult to get her going. In

> time she herself began distracting herself by rollerblading or jumping on

> the trampoline when things got tough.

>

> If he won't, you can reduce your own frustration by doing these types of

> things yourself. Remember what you used to enjoy doing before OCD and

your

> concerns about your son became all-encompasing? If that was gardening, or

> walking, or whatever, force yourself to do it again until taking some time

> for yourself despite your son's problems begins to feel normal again. I

> know from experience that this might feel disloyal, but suffering every

> moment along with your son is not easing his burden and is taking so much

> from you. I've written this before to others, but by forcing myself to

> disengage from my daughter's OCD, I actually made it less formidable for

> her. Her *own* experience of OCD was lessened in severity. BTW, when I

was

> first told this by a counselor, I thought " Ha, she doesn't understand at

all

> what we are going through " but she was right. This was very hard for me

to

> do, but as I look back, one of the few positive and helpful moves I made

> during that time when OCD was raging and ruling us all.

>

> During a quiet time, remind your son that yes, things are really rough and

> awful right now, but better days are coming and it won't always be like

> this. Make sure he knows you are on his side (despite all the acting out

> and the mouth--that is the OCD, not your son) and will always be working

to

> help him get well. There is a med out there for him, though finding it

may

> try the patience of a saint. Therapy can certainly work for him if it can

> work so well for my six-year-old girl.

>

> (((Hugs Chris))) I'm sorry it's so hard right now, but better days are

> ahead.

>

> Kathy R. in Indiana

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: <Zobels1@...>

>

> > To everyone, Any ideas on how your family handles the frustration

> > that OCD causes? My son has a problem with outbursts daily. This

> > includes saying over and over that he wants to be in the hospital,

> > that he does not want to live, that he hates his family. He has

> > isolated himself from every activity and friends. He just started

> > taking paxil two weeks ago after trying zoloft and luvox. Yes we are

> > working with a therapist that is knowledgable in OCD treatment. The

> > daily frustration is hard to know how to handle. Often I feel like

> > just sitting and crying forever. But I know this is a bad idea. Any

> > ideas would be considered helpful. Thanks for listening. Z.

>

>

>

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In

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>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Thanks, thanks, thanks so much for all the wisdom this group

> provides. I managed for the first time to " detach, disengage and

> walk away " as Joni says.

Woo hoo! Awesome, Melinda! Now... when *I* forget to 'detach,

disengage and walk away' ... kick me in the butt, ok?

But, it DOES prove to our children (no matter what their ages

or 'disorders') when we walk away from their anxiety-related problems

that....

1) They have Nothing to Fear!

2) *We're* in charge and NOT their disorder or meltdown or worries or

whatEVER

3) We have FAITH in their capabilities to handle their OWN problems.

4) We have FAITH in a Higher Power that will take care of them and us.

5) We have enough Love and FAITH in *ourselves* not to allow the

sickness (or behavior) of others make US sick. And THAT'S a real

security blanket for our kids! If we're healthy and 'sane' and worry-

free-- they feel more secure and peaceful.

You know, sometimes I'm actually GRATEFUL for my dad's alcoholism

which led me to 12 step programs. I see how finding my way to Ala-

teen when I was a teenager, to ACOA when I was a young adult, and

later to CoDA (co-dependent groups) when I was a young wife and

mother helped PREPARE me for ADHD and OCD in my sons later on, and

for LIFE in general. The tools I've learned over the last 20 years

have been AWESOME for surviving ANY type of illness, physical or

emotional. It's even helped me at work to SURVIVE the games people

play at the office and other behaviors. The books 'Co-dependent NO

MORE' and 'The Language of Letting Go' (by Melody Beattie) have been

life savers for me because I tend to care TOO MUCH! They were

especially useful through the teenage 'letting go years' when my

heart didn't want to let go of my two teenage sons, but my head knew

that they HAD to learn -- because they stopped listening to me and

became 'mommy deaf!' A therapist once told me that kids know Right

from Wrong by the time they're 12 years old, so all the talking in

the world isn't going to help. I needed to Let Go and let them

learn! The only thing I can do is to MODEL fearless, in control

behavior in MYSELF. Everything else is out of my control.

'God grant me the SERENITY to accept the things I cannot change.

COURAGE to change the things I can.

And the WISDOM to know the difference!'

Joni

(who had a GREAT time at the lake! And 's OCD? WHAT OCD?? I

wasn't looking for it and when it DID show up - we told him that 'too

much thinking and worrying about all the 'what ifs' wasn't allowed

THIS weekend' and we changed the subject and walked away!) Congrats

to both of us, Melinda! Doesn't if feel great to show OCD that's

it's not going to boss US around anymore?

[Guest guest]

Indeed! Congrats to us both! I feel better than I have in a long

time. I know my husband and non-OCD child are looking forward to

this new attitude. Although I think I knew it needed to come to

this, I resisted because I knew the possible repercussions would be

tough during the school year. Now I have steeled myself against the

inevitable meltdowns when I am not there to enable and reinforce OCD

and know that summertime will be more forgiving of the hours wasted

over OCD. Thanks again for your advise. I re-read your original

post on the subject every morning before I face the day!

Melinda S.

> > Thanks, thanks, thanks so much for all the wisdom this group

> > provides. I managed for the first time to " detach, disengage and

> > walk away " as Joni says.

>

> Woo hoo! Awesome, Melinda! Now... when *I* forget to 'detach,

> disengage and walk away' ... kick me in the butt, ok?

>

> But, it DOES prove to our children (no matter what their ages

> or 'disorders') when we walk away from their anxiety-related

problems

> that....

> 1) They have Nothing to Fear!

> 2) *We're* in charge and NOT their disorder or meltdown or worries

or

> whatEVER

> 3) We have FAITH in their capabilities to handle their OWN problems.

> 4) We have FAITH in a Higher Power that will take care of them and

us.

> 5) We have enough Love and FAITH in *ourselves* not to allow the

> sickness (or behavior) of others make US sick. And THAT'S a real

> security blanket for our kids! If we're healthy and 'sane' and

worry-

> free-- they feel more secure and peaceful.

>

> You know, sometimes I'm actually GRATEFUL for my dad's alcoholism

> which led me to 12 step programs. I see how finding my way to Ala-

> teen when I was a teenager, to ACOA when I was a young adult, and

> later to CoDA (co-dependent groups) when I was a young wife and

> mother helped PREPARE me for ADHD and OCD in my sons later on, and

> for LIFE in general. The tools I've learned over the last 20 years

> have been AWESOME for surviving ANY type of illness, physical or

> emotional. It's even helped me at work to SURVIVE the games people

> play at the office and other behaviors. The books 'Co-dependent NO

> MORE' and 'The Language of Letting Go' (by Melody Beattie) have

been

> life savers for me because I tend to care TOO MUCH! They were

> especially useful through the teenage 'letting go years' when my

> heart didn't want to let go of my two teenage sons, but my head

knew

> that they HAD to learn -- because they stopped listening to me and

> became 'mommy deaf!' A therapist once told me that kids know Right

> from Wrong by the time they're 12 years old, so all the talking in

> the world isn't going to help. I needed to Let Go and let them

> learn! The only thing I can do is to MODEL fearless, in control

> behavior in MYSELF. Everything else is out of my control.

> 'God grant me the SERENITY to accept the things I cannot change.

> COURAGE to change the things I can.

> And the WISDOM to know the difference!'

> Joni

> (who had a GREAT time at the lake! And 's OCD? WHAT OCD?? I

> wasn't looking for it and when it DID show up - we told him

that 'too

> much thinking and worrying about all the 'what ifs' wasn't allowed

> THIS weekend' and we changed the subject and walked away!)

Congrats

> to both of us, Melinda! Doesn't if feel great to show OCD that's

> it's not going to boss US around anymore?

[Guest guest]

HI Melinda:

Good for you!!! You gave your beloved son a very strong message that you

believe in him and in his ability to cope with OCD. What you did is very

hard but you did it very, very well, Good luck, I am looking forward to

hearing more of his successes soon, take care, aloha, Kathy (h)

kathyh@...

At 04:55 PM 05/27/2001 -0000, you wrote:

>Thanks, thanks, thanks so much for all the wisdom this group

>provides. I managed for the first time to " detach, disengage and

>walk away " as Joni says.

>I attend a BSA Troop Family campout/Court of Honor yesterday. My

>ODCer (15 yo)who is a Life Scout and was on the fast track to Eagle

>hasn't camped with the troop much this year due to his C's regarding

>exercises (when would he get them done, etc.) Yesterday he was in

>charge of the crew building the monkey bridge. Prior to OCD, this

>would have been a highlight. By the time I arrived, the bridge was

>successfully built, but was walking around with a long face

>and came over to me to share his anxiety re his " workout. " I simply

>told him that I had already offered my advise (skip the exercises,

>live with the anxiety, survive it and next time would be easier)and

>he could choose to act on it and go have some fun or he could

>continue to focus on the negative. Then I suggested that while fun

>comes naturally to most people that he was going to have to work at

>it for a while. Finally, I said (with a smile...OK, not entirely

>genuine!)that I was going to go try the monkey bridge and WALKED AWAY

>without looking back. Whew! Did that feel good! eventually

>rejoined the group and participated in the fun. He did begin again

>during the Court of Honor, saying he was so worried about " getting

>everything done " and I just said, " I know, I'm sorry " and turned back

>to the program.

>I did not camp, but rather returned home last night, but time will

>tell what shape R will be in upon his return today.

>Thanks again for all the advise!

>Melinda S.