STROKE

[Guest guest]

Pete:

Is there ever any hope of reversing some motor functions that have been

lost?

Mark

Stroke

Dear Group:

Monday morning I will be assessing my first stroke victim. If anyone

has

any tips for working with this type of client, I would really

appreciate

them.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Mark

Sorry I answer in Petes place but as I am related to this issues I want to tell

you this:

Everything is possible within the wonderful restoring possibilities of the

brain. But is very important not to harm the family of the client with false

expectations also.

We have been studying amazing restorations from ComaII levels, and different

kinds of strokes.

Go to the website of Margaret Ayers:

www.neuropathways.com

Best

Stroke

Dear Group:

Monday morning I will be assessing my first stroke victim. If anyone

has

any tips for working with this type of client, I would really

appreciate

them.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Thanks

Re: Stroke

Mark

Sorry I answer in Petes place but as I am related to this issues I want

to tell you this:

Everything is possible within the wonderful restoring possibilities of

the brain. But is very important not to harm the family of the client

with false expectations also.

We have been studying amazing restorations from ComaII levels, and

different kinds of strokes.

Go to the website of Margaret Ayers:

www.neuropathways.com

Best

Stroke

Dear Group:

Monday morning I will be assessing my first stroke victim. If anyone

has

any tips for working with this type of client, I would really

appreciate

them.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Mark,

I've only worked with a few stroke victims, but my experience in that area

was good. The brain will try to re-organize functions even without training

to re-establish function, so the NF can help that process along.

Anyone else have any experience with strokes?

Pete

Stroke

Dear Group:

Monday morning I will be assessing my first stroke victim. If anyone

has

any tips for working with this type of client, I would really

appreciate

them.

Mark

[Guest guest]

You are welcome!

Stroke

Dear Group:

Monday morning I will be assessing my first stroke victim. If anyone

has

any tips for working with this type of client, I would really

appreciate

them.

Mark

[Guest guest]

dear Mark:

Here is more.....

JACQUELINE BAKER is a Lecturer in Nursing Studies at the Sydney College of

Advanced Education.

Head injury is a major cause of death and permanent disability. In New South

Wales, a report from the Government Insurance Office 1 indicates that road

trauma accounts for 70 percent of cases of severe brain damage and that 50

percent or these occur in the 17 to 25 year age group. The report further

indicates that approximately 1,000 people each year are left with a permanent

deficit in brain function and that one third will be left seriously disabled for

life. These people have often been forgotten, seen as being beyond the help of

rehabilitative care. However Ian Hunter, 2 in an oral submission to the

Parliamentary Social Development Committee inquiry into the options for dying

with dignity stated:

It cannot be proven that there is no potential for recovery following brain

injury, even in the most severe cases ... because there is no known diagnostic

test that can scientifically demonstrate that recovery of function will not

occur ... (therefore) every attempt should be made to tap this ...

As a result of this increasing awareness of the potential for recovery, coma

arousal programs have developed.

Coma is: " ... the total absence of awareness of self and environment even when

the subject is externally stimulated. " 3 Through controversial coma arousal

programs it is being shown that even when in a coma a person may be reached

through the use of external stimulation. Coma arousal is a planned series of

activities aimed at " arousing " a person from a coma.

Physiological theories

The theoretical underpinnings of coma arousal therapy lie in achieving

wakefulness in the patient and capitalizing on the adaptability or plasticity of

the brain. Bach-y-Rita 4 refers to this adaptability as:

.... the adaptive capacities of the central nervous system - its ability to

modify its own structural organization and function. It is an adaptive response

to functional demand ... plasticity permits enduring functional changes to take

place.

There are four scientific theories that address the issue of the brain's

apparent adaptability in recovering from brain injury. These are: spare capacity

and reorganization; redundancy; response at a cellular level and environmental

effects.

a.. Spare capacity and reorganization refer to the brain's apparent ability to

reorganize its functions following injury. 5 The premise of this theory is that

many parts of the brain are non-active or " spare " , so that when damage to

another part of the brain occurs this " spare " area is able to assume the

function of the damaged area, thereby compensating for any potential loss of

function. Levin 6 cites Professor Lorber's research on people with spina bifida

which illustrated this theory. Many of the subjects had cerebral ventricular

expansion greater than 90% of the cranium, however over half had IQ scores of

greater than 100 and one an IQ of 126 and a first class honours degree in

mathematics. It would appear that time is a critical factor if this adaptability

is to occur. The slower the insult to the brain, such as a gradual

hydrocephalus, the more likely the brain's ability to adapt.

b.. The redundancy theory is closely related to the theory of reorganization

and refers to the brain's apparent ability to duplicate neuronal pathways. 7

Therefore, if one pathway is damaged the other will be able to take over. Ayers

8 believes that this duplication of pathways is the result of evolution and

states:

c.. As the nervous system evolved to meet the expanding needs of existence,

the newer structures tended to duplicate older structures and functions, and

improve on them rather than to devise different functions ... Thus the same

kinds of functions are repeated at several layers of the brain.

These older or redundant pathways, it is believed, may be utilized following

injuries that have destroyed the newer pathways.

a.. The response at a cellular level theory revolves around the scientific

fact that when cells in the central nervous system are dead, recovery does not

occur. From this has come research on the subsequent effects on cells around the

dead area. The work of Lui and Chambers 9 in 1958 demonstrated that the

undamaged axons of the neurons send out new connections in an attempt to re-wire

the system, a process called collateral sprouting. In this way the brain

attempts to compensate for its inability to grow new cells.

b.. The environmental effects theory refers to the improved performance that

is noted in animals and humans when increased environmental stimulation occurs.

Hunter 10 cites a number of studies which support the theory. For example, one

demonstrated that increased environmental stimulation in rats resulted in

greater weight and thickness of the cerebral cortex, 11 and another that it

improved performance and increased brain growth in animals. 12 For ethical

reasons studies to date have not been carried out on human subjects, however

instances where humans have suffered sensory deprivation have been studied and

in most cases serious neurological deficits have resulted. 13 Alternatively, a

study of institutionalized children found that those who received increased

visual and motor stimulation developed skills such as reaching out and grabbing

much quicker than those who had not received the stimulation. 14 Increased

stimulation may therefore result in increased ability and brain size. It causes

activation of collateral sprouting which in turn absorbs the extra space

available and causes a reorganization of the brain's activity.

Hunter 15 refers to the process of adaptability as " re-directing the call " and

uses the analogy of making a telephone call. For many years the caller has been

used to picking up the phone and dialing direct to London. One day the direct

dialing system does not work, so the caller goes to the operator to make the

connection. The operator also has difficulty making the connection but

eventually achieves it via Perth, Hong Kong and furt. Obviously this takes

more time and is more expensive than direct dialing. The caller later finds out

that the direct line with London will never work again, so that to call London

it will have to be via Perth, Hong Kong and furt. With time, this more

cumbersome method of making the call becomes efficient. Hunter 16 proposes that

this is the same process that occurs in the injured brain: the original

connections do not work but through collateral sprouting and the plasticity of

the brain the call or message is redirected. "

Stroke

Dear Group:

Monday morning I will be assessing my first stroke victim. If anyone

has

any tips for working with this type of client, I would really

appreciate

them.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Pete and :

I checked out Margaret's site. All of the case examples she gave were

from T4 to C4 inhibit 4-7 and enhance 15-18. I got the impression that

that is the only protocol she uses. What is it about T4/C4?

Mark

Stroke

Dear Group:

Monday morning I will be assessing my first stroke victim. If anyone

has

any tips for working with this type of client, I would really

appreciate

them.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Dear Mark,

I believe I can assist you. I'm a board certified health psychologist, who

had a stroke, brain injury and brain surgery..have a hole in my brain now,

and recovered and am back practicing again. I've written a self-help

reference book , see below and my web site. I've come up with even newer

approaches along with NF since the book was written. I'd be more than glad

to speak with you.. my office # is 978-352-8269.

Diane

At 03:31 PM 1/11/2003 -0300, you wrote:

>diane=drdiane.com@...

>Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n19.grp.scd. with NNFMP; 11 Jan

>2003 18:33:23 -0000

>X-Sender: drrocatti@...

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>Message-ID: <002201c2b99f$ad6f8220$0a00000a@...>

Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D.

For information on how to obtain

" Coping with Mild Traumatic Brain Injury:

A Guide to Living with the Challenges Associated with Concussion/ Brain

Injury "

Click the link below

<http://www.drdiane.com>

[Guest guest]

Dear Mark

The concept beyond this is that the Sensory strip that is already discovered

that is not so really so separated in Motor to one side and sensory to the other

side of the gyrus. May be in the Motor 312 Brodman there is 70% Motor and 30%

sensorial neurons and the reverse in sensorial strip. It seems that due to the

Neuronal Shock the SensoriMotor cortex loose contact between each 6 layers and

the Thalamic Nuclei, So M. Ayers found that as this connection weakens the

consciousness get worse and to reverse the RASA stimulation the best placements

are C3T3 and C4 T4. But She always train down theta were ever she finds the

injury, be it open brain injury or closed brain injury.

I have used always this in many Coma II patients and they have great response.

The difference is that she says not to train SMR, just to down Theta.

But with the last patient I have a very particular issue.

With the same placements in Coma II, when I hooked him, he (16 years old hypoxic

coma) begun to snore....So I setup SMR 13 to 15 and stop theta 7 to 4. Then he

open her eyes. then 5 minutes later. I set up SMR 12 to 15 and begun to snore,

so I changed to 13 15.and he opened his eyes.

So I decided to do what I see it work in him and begun to make little changes in

1hz changes in SMR in C4 and a very low beta in C3 15 17, just to see, well all

his eyes reflexes got better.

So, we have to see what works better for the patient.

With a locked in Sdme I have done the same and after 10 years she woke up in a

few session.

Good Luck

Stroke

Dear Group:

Monday morning I will be assessing my first stroke victim. If anyone

has

any tips for working with this type of client, I would really

appreciate

them.

Mark

[Guest guest]

,

I have always wondered how much real difference one would see between C3/T3

and C3/A1. Certainly when you do T3/A1 training, there is usually very little

signal, which suggests that the " signal " we see (if any) at the earlobe is

really a signal bleeding over from the temporals. So training a differential

between C3 and T3 (or C4 and T4) may simply be the equivalent of training

theta down at C3 or C4, which is almost always a good approach.

Your story of the client who responded so differently to SMR 12-15 vs 13-15 is

very interesting. That is a frequency that does seem to have very individual

responses.

Pete

p.s. to all

Please remember to delete all messages prior to the specific one to which you

are responding. For those who do not, I may force you to go on the Digest

format for one week, so you can see how much fun it is to scroll through all

those repeated messages.

[Guest guest]

Wow, Diane, I sure would like to " hear more " about your approaches, especially

with the NF. Will you please write some more on this list?

St. Clair, MSW

Re: Stroke

Dear Mark,

I believe I can assist you. I'm a board certified health psychologist, who

had a stroke, brain injury and brain surgery..have a hole in my brain now,

and recovered and am back practicing again. I've written a self-help

reference book , see below and my web site. I've come up with even newer

approaches along with NF since the book was written. I'd be more than glad

to speak with you.. my office # is 978-352-8269.

Diane

At 03:31 PM 1/11/2003 -0300, you wrote:

>diane=drdiane.com@...

>Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n19.grp.scd. with NNFMP; 11 Jan

>2003 18:33:23 -0000

>X-Sender: drrocatti@...

>X-Apparently-

>Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 11 Jan 2003 18:33:20 -0000

>Received: (qmail 89677 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2003 18:33:20 -0000

>Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216)

> by m8.grp.scd. with QMQP; 11 Jan 2003 18:33:20 -0000

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> by mta1.grp.scd. with SMTP; 11 Jan 2003 18:33:19 -0000

>Received: from mail3.tucbbs.com.ar [200.43.56.1]

> by tucumail.com.ar [127.0.0.1]

> with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v5.0.4.R)

> for < >; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:30:55 -0300

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>SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13)

> id CWNHT4K8; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:56:58 -0300

>Message-ID: <002201c2b99f$ad6f8220$0a00000a@...>

Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D.

For information on how to obtain

" Coping with Mild Traumatic Brain Injury:

A Guide to Living with the Challenges Associated with Concussion/ Brain

Injury "

Click the link below

<http://www.drdiane.com>

[Guest guest]

Pete

As I really begun with no experience at all in Coma, and I read about the 32

cases of Coma II of M Ayers, I decided to begun with her approach.

Later, all the Coma II I saw, and the locked in had strange movements like

Bruxism ( told me they were already awaken and trying to talk) , so they

move a lot the temporal muscle, the tonge, and create a lot of artifact. So I

decided that this also will benefit because will cancel the artifact that will

go to both places at the same time.

About the size of the signal is little in people like us but this Coma had High

delta and Theta and also in referential you se the signal very big. I never see

the famous Alpha Theta Coma.

But really I expected and placed my hopes in the internal neocortical loops

effects of this hook up, I mean the loop of the sensorimotor strip and the

Temporal cortex (at least, there is also, or must be a great activity of

Putamen, Globus Pallidus and Caudate Nucleus, if they are not damaged) . May be

the activation of temporal help In the remembering issues, so important for this

Coma clients.

But the size of the slow waves depends on the cause of the Coma II, is not the

same an Hypoxic Coma (The worst) than the traumatic or the hemorrhagic Coma II,

this two have very big slow waves.

ABOUT SMR

You wont believe but the SMR issue I try with me and have the same effect.

If I train in C4 12-15, I become sleepy and got very bored. I change to 13-15

and feel wonderful awake and calm.

Beta 15-20 makes me fell anxious as I have taken 10 cups of coffee.

Beta 15-18 fells good.Sharp, clear and awaken mind.

One of the things that really shocked me in the cases I have seen in NFK

protocols is how sometimes a change in 1 hz can make a big difference.

I am still skeptical ...but I see it happens to me also!

[Guest guest]

HI,

The best I have seen are M. Ayers. I used in Coma II and Locked IN.

C3T3 /g/ C4 T4

Theta down. Not Up B1 nor B2.

See more on this

www.neuropathways.com

Good luck

stroke

Hi fellow s,My 80 year old mother suffered a ischemic thrombotic stroke to the right brain last year May, resulting in paralysis of the left side, left sided neglect,, some blind spots in vision, inability to swallow, decreased cognitive functioning, incontinence, etc. A year later, with precribed rehab, there has been some improvements: She swallows fine, some bowel control, moves her left side a little but cannot walk unassisted, mainly due to weak muscles and poor balance; her cognitive functioning and memory has slightly improved. Also, cannot read, sadly since she was an avid reader. Becomes anxious trying, since she cannot follow a line. Would appreciate feedback from others who have used neurofeedback with stroke survivors. What protocols? successes, suggestions for improvements in any of the above areas. Thank you. Renfroe

[Guest guest]

,

You should find very slow areas in the right brain (dominated by theta/delta) if you do some mini assessments site by site, just looking at eyes closed and eyes open. These are the foci of the stroke. If there was any kind of scan or EEG done following, they may point you to such sites.

Training to reduce slow activity at those sites is probably the most effective protocol.

Pete

stroke

Hi fellow s,My 80 year old mother suffered a ischemic thrombotic stroke to the right brain last year May, resulting in paralysis of the left side, left sided neglect,, some blind spots in vision, inability to swallow, decreased cognitive functioning, incontinence, etc. A year later, with precribed rehab, there has been some improvements: She swallows fine, some bowel control, moves her left side a little but cannot walk unassisted, mainly due to weak muscles and poor balance; her cognitive functioning and memory has slightly improved. Also, cannot read, sadly since she was an avid reader. Becomes anxious trying, since she cannot follow a line. Would appreciate feedback from others who have used neurofeedback with stroke survivors. What protocols? successes, suggestions for improvements in any of the above areas. Thank you.

[Guest guest]

Dear :

M.Ayers says that in case of Coma and stroke, her experience was that reinforcing B1(12-15 or SMR) or B2 (Beta 15 -20) INCREASED Theta, that was the main goal.

And also as said , she used to look for the place where the slowest waves were present and train there. Also in Open Brain Injury.

Warm Regards

stroke

and Pete, I checked out your recommendation to check out www. neuropathways.com site. I do not understand the protocol used on the stroke survivor A2-C4-T4. Seems it says reward 15-18, inhibit 4-7. Pete, in his trainings, recommends to not use beta rewards on the right side. Any comments, Pete and others. Below is the specific page. http://www.neuropathways.com/case.evanjddc.001.htmlAlso, , re your response which indicated a protocol of C3/T3/g/C4/T4; theta down; not up B1 nor B2. I do not understand "not up B1 nor B2."

[Guest guest]

SORRY

:

The Goal is to REDUCE Theta.

I mistake in the last e mail.

stroke

and Pete, I checked out your recommendation to check out www. neuropathways.com site. I do not understand the protocol used on the stroke survivor A2-C4-T4. Seems it says reward 15-18, inhibit 4-7. Pete, in his trainings, recommends to not use beta rewards on the right side. Any comments, Pete and others. Below is the specific page. http://www.neuropathways.com/case.evanjddc.001.htmlAlso, , re your response which indicated a protocol of C3/T3/g/C4/T4; theta down; not up B1 nor B2. I do not understand "not up B1 nor B2."

[Guest guest]

:

Margaret Ayers' primary focus is on reducing theta activity. At the same time, she does augment 15-18 Hz beta, but at a very low level.....In other words, she is not trying to drive beta up; instead, she is just making sure it doesn't fall below a minimal level. She doesn't like to augment smr activity because it is so close to alpha activity, and she doesn't want to inadvertantly encourage more eyes open alpha, particularly in the frontal regions.

Fred

stroke

and Pete, I checked out your recommendation to check out www. neuropathways.com site. I do not understand the protocol used on the stroke survivor A2-C4-T4. Seems it says reward 15-18, inhibit 4-7. Pete, in his trainings, recommends to not use beta rewards on the right side. Any comments, Pete and others. Below is the specific page. http://www.neuropathways.com/case.evanjddc.001.htmlAlso, , re your response which indicated a protocol of C3/T3/g/C4/T4; theta down; not up B1 nor B2. I do not understand "not up B1 nor B2."

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I guess it is my time to put in my 2 cents. I had a stroke

(cerebral bleed), which had been leaking for 10 years, then it bled out ,

while I was driving. I pass out from the bleed and had a 60

mile-an-hour head-on auto collusion. Five months later I had brain

surgery to remove the cause of the bleed. I now have a hole

in my posterior left frontal lobe.

For 4 years post surgery, I was unable to speak, read, use my right side,

short and long term memory problems, attentional problems, along with

chronic pain from the auto accident...4 displace cervical, etc.

etc. and the list goes on and on.

The point is that the doctor told me I was permanently brain damage and

would never recover. Hearing this, I decided to develop my own

program, which included NF. I did NF for one year with

Swingle. My subtest scores in areas of brain damage went from the 6th

percentile to the 80th after one year of treatment.

To make a long story short, I'm back working full time as a

board certified health psychologist and sports psychologist, authored the

book, Coping with Mild Traumatic Brain Injury. I can

attest that NF can and does help in the recovery of a stroke.

I have also had great success with my patients with traumatic brain

injury and/or stroke.

Along with the NF, if you have been keep up with nutritional and

vitamins on this listserve, I found a company, Nature Most ,that

has put out an excellent formula, which really works. I used

it everyday along with a high protein diet. It is posted on

the self-help page of my web site.

Also, My 91 year old mother had one severe stroke similar to your

mom and 3 concussions. She changed her diet, is taking

the brain formula kit and did NF in Cleveland. She is now

back reading her 5 books a week.

, I've written this for you to have hope. NF does

work.

Best Regards,

Diane

aka Dr. Diane

At 10:08 PM 5/17/2003 -0500, you wrote:

:

Margaret Ayers' primary focus is on

reducing theta activity. At the same time, she does augment 15-18 Hz

beta, but at a very low level.....In other words, she is not trying to

drive beta up; instead, she is just making sure it doesn't fall below a

minimal level. She doesn't like to augment smr activity because it is so

close to alpha activity, and she doesn't want to inadvertantly encourage

more eyes open alpha, particularly in the frontal regions.

Fred

stroke

and Pete,

I checked out your recommendation to check out www. neuropathways.com site. I do not understand the protocol used on the stroke survivor A2-C4-T4. Seems it says reward 15-18, inhibit 4-7. Pete, in his trainings, recommends to not use beta rewards on the right side. Any comments, Pete and others. Below is the specific page.

http://www.neuropathways.com/case.evanjddc.001.html

Also, , re your response which indicated a protocol of C3/T3/g/C4/T4; theta down; not up B1 nor B2. I do not understand " not up B1 nor B2. "

[Guest guest]

Hi Fred and Diane,

Thank you for your reply. I am new to neurofeedback, so I have specifics re

your comments. Fred, You say MAyers augments with 15-18 and at low levels.

At what sites? " low levels " translates to? small increments of time or ?

Diane, your reply is so hopeful and your story so courageous and inspiring.

Thank you for your input. Your Mom's recovery is inspiring. I will be

discussing neurofeedback with my Mom today. You used a supervisor in your

training. Would you have suggestions re me doing the same, and would you

recommend someone?

Also, I will be looking at your site re supplements. My Mom eats very well;

my Dad is a great cook. But she has stopped taking vitamins, and she had

always been an advocate of vitamins to enhance health.

Renfroe

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Try again with sending your question. My email has husband

Fred's name but I am working with kids - ADHD/FAE and stablizing an SED 8yr.old. But I have an 81 yr. old stroke-stricken mother-in-law so keep looking and post the replies!! Lori/Brainworks/Alaska

Re: stroke

Hi Fred and Diane,Thank you for your reply. I am new to neurofeedback, so I have specifics re your comments. Fred, You say MAyers augments with 15-18 and at low levels. At what sites? "low levels" translates to? small increments of time or ? Diane, your reply is so hopeful and your story so courageous and inspiring. Thank you for your input. Your Mom's recovery is inspiring. I will be discussing neurofeedback with my Mom today. You used a supervisor in your training. Would you have suggestions re me doing the same, and would you recommend someone? Also, I will be looking at your site re supplements. My Mom eats very well; my Dad is a great cook. But she has stopped taking vitamins, and she had always been an advocate of vitamins to enhance health. Renfroe

[Guest guest]

:

Ayers augments 15-18 Hz activity with the the threshold set at .4 uVolts on her Neuropathways unit. I don't know what the equivalent would be for the Brainmaster, but .4 uVolts is a very low level of activity. In her approach, the patient is almost always focusing exclusively on bringing Theta or other slow wave activity down. She doesn't like to train up Beta because sometimes Beta is superimposed on Theta in brain damaged individuals, as a compensatory mechanism, and in those cases training up Beta will actually raise the Theta levels. She tends to pick areas of training based on a preliminary evaluation of where Theta levels are abnormally high, or based upon the symptom presentation. She tends to train the central areas first, then moves toward the frontal areas, and trains the posterior areas after the others. But, again, she will sometimes opt to begin by focusing on specific areas based on the presenting symptoms.

Fred

Re: stroke

Hi Fred and Diane,Thank you for your reply. I am new to neurofeedback, so I have specifics re your comments. Fred, You say MAyers augments with 15-18 and at low levels. At what sites? "low levels" translates to? small increments of time or ? Diane, your reply is so hopeful and your story so courageous and inspiring. Thank you for your input. Your Mom's recovery is inspiring. I will be discussing neurofeedback with my Mom today. You used a supervisor in your training. Would you have suggestions re me doing the same, and would you recommend someone? Also, I will be looking at your site re supplements. My Mom eats very well; my Dad is a great cook. But she has stopped taking vitamins, and she had always been an advocate of vitamins to enhance health. Renfroe

[Guest guest]

I hope everyone on the list is aware that you can go to the listserver site and review all prior messages by simply pointing your browser to . When you get to the site, you can click on the link for "Messages" on the left side of the page and look through (or even search) the messages since the beginning of the group. You can also go through the Files section and download a variety of forms as well as information on places to buy paste, prep, electrodes, etc. that are high quality and relatively low-priced.

Pete

Re: stroke

Hi Fred and Diane,Thank you for your reply. I am new to neurofeedback, so I have specifics re your comments. Fred, You say MAyers augments with 15-18 and at low levels. At what sites? "low levels" translates to? small increments of time or ? Diane, your reply is so hopeful and your story so courageous and inspiring. Thank you for your input. Your Mom's recovery is inspiring. I will be discussing neurofeedback with my Mom today. You used a supervisor in your training. Would you have suggestions re me doing the same, and would you recommend someone? Also, I will be looking at your site re supplements. My Mom eats very well; my Dad is a great cook. But she has stopped taking vitamins, and she had always been an advocate of vitamins to enhance health. Renfroe

[Guest guest]

dalmudlee wrote:

> Hi Group Members,

>

> I have observed that a great percentage of my relatives demise, with this BT,

has been stroke. Is there some common link and if so, what can be done to turn

it around?

>

Good question.

I would think it has to do with what fat is eaten especially:

Meat eaters get too much saturated fat unless they take severe steps to

change that, and use extra-virgin olive oil instead for the oleic acid

in it, and to also eat high-fat fish for the DHA, EPA and DHEA in there.

Also at the cellular level, saturated fat causes inflammation where the

oils mentioned reverse it. Likewise inflammation of blood vessels that

raise blood pressure. high blood pressure can precipitate strokes and

people often don't know they have it.

Anti-oxidants from food pigments are also beneficial and missing from

many diets. So I do think there are ways to fight back, but that we need

to consciously choose them.

When I started taking a teaspoon of EV olive oil 5 times a day, (I was

already low fat on the saturated side) my totally off scale

triglycerides and bad cholesterol came right dramatically fast - like in

about a month or two.

The other major change I made was to lower my sodium salt and replace

with potassium salt. That brought my BP down from 210/165 to 140/110.

The EV olive has dropped it further to 130/90.

Those are my two cents on this for now :-)

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/16/2004 11:33:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

cherylhcmba@... writes:

Another interesting point about hemorrhagic stroke is that risk

increases as cholesterol levels become extremely low which is very

possible for Type O. I try to keep mine between 160 & 180 with

favorable HDL and triglyceride values. Moderation in everything also

applies to managing cholesterol levels.

LOL--so if your cholesterol drops below 160, you gorge on saturated fat and

trans fat?

My cholesterol is 122-128 thanks to the diet. No one in my considerably

large family has ever had a stroke. Read an article that tried to explain why

the

liver regulates cholesterol up and down. His point was that as our arteries

and veins get pin holes in them from our bodies being out of whack chemically

(too acid or to alkaline), the liver responds by releasing more cholesterol

to " patch " these pinholes. Continued eating of improper foods causes continued

pinhole damage and continued increases of cholesterol being released into the

blood stream. Obviously, it's a case of the body killing itself clogging

arteries by trying to save itself from bleeding to death. I don't know how

relevent this article is but I do know that many people on this list have seen

their cholesterol level dropping while eating the very foods that doctors tell

them not to. The premise seems to make sense. I've always believed that

cholesterol level is a health effect and not a cause and should be controlled by

diet

and lifestyle and not drugs. My opinion is that if you eat right, your veins

and arteries stay healthy and won't bleed.

[Guest guest]

Dr. D’Adamo states that type Os have an increased risk of stroke caused by

bleeding in the brain, because of their low levels of blood clotting

factors. Type As have an increased risk of stroke caused by clotting.

Clearly type Os thinner blood and clotting disorders caused by their lower

levels of blood clotting factors was a factor in determining our food status

lists. Following the BTD will reduce your risk. Eat your greens.

Do you have access to the Encyclopedia? He has a section about strokes in

it. It gives some statistics about stroke occurrence but not a lot of other

information. Besides the appropriate BTD and lifestyle he recommends the

following protocols:

Antistress

Cardiovascular

Metabolic Enhancement

Don

Stroke

Hi Group Members,

I have observed that a great percentage of my relatives demise, with this

BT, has been stroke. Is there some common link and if so, what can be done

to turn it around?

THX,

L