yes

[Guest guest]

Hey Duffey.....

Great idea!!! LEE

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Yes, I am working on her being responsible for learning to help herself! The

pain of the up and down and the

responsibility that I cannot fix it drives me beyond. Some moments or even days

she is steady and even happy for

long periods. I just am not adjusting to the up, down and farther down

syndrome. I do work on leaving her to

master skills and do a lot more for herself. I am trying not to get caught up

in her downs so much. As moms we

want to hold and protect. All that does is bandaid it for 3 minutes. I can't

be there emotionally for her every

whim. This is so hard for me as I am a protector and hurt when my family hurts.

I don't want to learn to take

that part away from my motherhood. I DON'T WANT TO! It hurts so much. I am on

depressant meds and I feel I am up

and down along w/ her. I am working on it, cause it seems if I don't feed into

it, she gets over it faster. You

know though my feelings hurt because she hurts me. I know she loves us and most

of it is the ocd demon. I don't

know anymore which it is.

Sorry for being so down, but I am hurting and need to get my life in a stable

place. School is going very well for

her and that is such a relief. Why can't I become the strong one through this

at home?

Lori_ca

Mamimiz@... wrote:

> From: Mamimiz@...

>

> Lori. I know how you feel. I walk around with a sense of sadness. When my

> daughter makes it to school I feel better, when she doesn't I'm upset the

> whole day. Each morning I sit on the edge of my seat- will she make it or

> won't she? No one would know it- I put on a good front. The pain is quite

> profound. I'm sure if I wasn't on St. 's Wort I would be very depressed.

> I have made a vow to put the onus on her to get well. Whenver I have an

> opportunity I ask her to behave in a responsible way because most of the time

> she does not. This includes getting to school on time or she does not go, a

> couple of chores, obeying punishments (very hard for her - she is

> oppositional) and expecting her to act civilly in our household (she can be

> volatile).

> This is very different than the way she was in middle school- a straight

> A honors student. We didn't put too many restrictions on her because she did

> well in school. Unbeknownst to us, she was struggling with perfectionistic

> OCD which explained the straight As. By high school, she got burnt out and

> just began avoiding responsibilities. By setting these limits (and it is not

> easy), I feel like she is learning a better mechanism of control- not by the

> strict demons in her head. We are really a lot nicer than that slave driver

> in her head. I hope the external structure helps her learn appropriate

> limits- not too exacting but not too lax.

> I hope this helps. Expect your daughter to begin helping herself.

>

> Mamimiz

>

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> listserv@... .

> In the body of your message write:

> subscribe OCD-L your name.

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> Parenting List may be accessed by going to

> / .

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or links located in the toolbar.

[Guest guest]

Hi Lori:

I am so sorry to hear how painful things are right now. You are very right

that when we go up and down with the waxing and waning of symptoms, it is

extra hard for our beloved OCDers. The first pscyhologist I took Steve to

gave me some excellent advice although at the time I thought it was bizarre

and unachievable. She told me that it was very important that I remain calm.

Often I was anything but, and that was tough on the whole family. The hard

part is that the family tends to take their bearings on how the mother is

doing. This puts a lot of pressure on us. Sometimes I found it helped to

tell my family I was just not doing well that day, as I got stronger I

learned to just act as if I was feeling okay. The strange thing is that

this actually makes you feel better. It does take effort to achieve this

but practice makes it easier and easier.

Another thing that helped me was to recognize that OCD for Steve just waxes

and wanes, often for no observable reason. So when it waxes I remind

myself that in time it will wane. This helps me to stay on more of an even

keel.

Also I remind myself that it takes much more love, trust and faith to let

Steve be responsible for his own moods and their management. When I try to

fix by always responding like it is really bad, that just signals him that

I think he cannot cope. At first it feels like being neglectful but when

you see an improvement over time, you become hooked on this approach.

Hope you feel less down soon, take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 09:46 PM 03/24/2000 -0800, you wrote:

>From: volley4@...

>

>Yes, I am working on her being responsible for learning to help herself!

The pain of the up and down and the

>responsibility that I cannot fix it drives me beyond. Some moments or

even days she is steady and even happy for

>long periods. I just am not adjusting to the up, down and farther down

syndrome. I do work on leaving her to

>master skills and do a lot more for herself. I am trying not to get

caught up in her downs so much. As moms we

>want to hold and protect. All that does is bandaid it for 3 minutes. I

can't be there emotionally for her every

>whim. This is so hard for me as I am a protector and hurt when my family

hurts. I don't want to learn to take

>that part away from my motherhood. I DON'T WANT TO! It hurts so much. I

am on depressant meds and I feel I am up

>and down along w/ her. I am working on it, cause it seems if I don't feed

into it, she gets over it faster. You

>know though my feelings hurt because she hurts me. I know she loves us

and most of it is the ocd demon. I don't

>know anymore which it is.

>Sorry for being so down, but I am hurting and need to get my life in a

stable place. School is going very well for

>her and that is such a relief. Why can't I become the strong one through

this at home?

>Lori_ca

[Guest guest]

My problem is I haven't been able to get past faking calm to actually

feeling calm in the face of my daughter's OCD. I behave this way because

I'm convinced that it helps Kellen quite a bit, but as yet *I* don't feel

any better from acting this way. I also feel stress from spending my days

behaving one way but feeling another. Maintaining my calm is something I do

for Kel's benefit but it's hard on me, not helpful, at least not yet.

Kathy, when did maintaining a calm demeanor begin to benefit you as well as

Steve? Maybe I just haven't been at it long enough.

Kathy R. in Indiana

> From: Kathy Hammes <kathyh@...>

>

> Hi Lori:

>

> I am so sorry to hear how painful things are right now. You are very right

> that when we go up and down with the waxing and waning of symptoms, it is

> extra hard for our beloved OCDers. The first pscyhologist I took Steve to

> gave me some excellent advice although at the time I thought it was

bizarre

> and unachievable. She told me that it was very important that I remain

calm.

>

> Often I was anything but, and that was tough on the whole family. The

hard

> part is that the family tends to take their bearings on how the mother is

> doing. This puts a lot of pressure on us. Sometimes I found it helped to

> tell my family I was just not doing well that day, as I got stronger I

> learned to just act as if I was feeling okay. The strange thing is that

> this actually makes you feel better. It does take effort to achieve this

> but practice makes it easier and easier.

>

> Another thing that helped me was to recognize that OCD for Steve just

waxes

> and wanes, often for no observable reason. So when it waxes I remind

> myself that in time it will wane. This helps me to stay on more of an even

> keel.

>

> Also I remind myself that it takes much more love, trust and faith to let

> Steve be responsible for his own moods and their management. When I try

to

> fix by always responding like it is really bad, that just signals him that

> I think he cannot cope. At first it feels like being neglectful but when

> you see an improvement over time, you become hooked on this approach.

>

> Hope you feel less down soon, take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

> kathyh@...

[Guest guest]

I come to the list crying and overwhelmed and so unhappy with myself for

losing it once again, and sure enough there's a thread on being calm.

It's not the OCD, or maybe it is, but I just can't take s behavior

anymore. All I said today was you left the ice cream out to melt on the

counter, and full blown rages all day.

I know more and/or different meds some of the answer, ERP not working because

she won't do it, I know all of that. And her newest tic/compulsion flinging

her head upside down and back, and all I want her to do is tie back her hair,

so it won't get so knotty, because I'm the one who has to brush it, and that

causes a tantrum.

The psychologist (in Penzels group) advocates that we need to let all this

behavior go, that she's incapable of controlling it, she's incapable of

putting on her socks because I ask her to, and I should get used to that, she

can't put her own clothes on because it causes too much stress, and when I

lean over to help her put on her pants, and I breathe too loudly so she

smacks me (twice, naturally) I can tell her how that makes me feel, but

that's it. And believe me, etc. etc. etc.-- I could go on for hours.

End of my rope, I want to run away from home, I don't want to spend the rest

of my life living like this. I hate myself for becoming this bitchy, angry,

mean, self-pitying, because i sure do feel sorry for myself, person.

Ellen in NY

[Guest guest]

and just to add to the joy, I somehow managed to forget her 6th grade roller

skating party tonight, and the charming man I'm married to wants to know how

I can forget a thing like that, and that I should set up a family calendar so

he can know what's going on. This is the person who hasn't managed to get

off the couch the last 6 months to look for a job.

Ellen in NY

[Guest guest]

Ellen,

I have a 16 daughter and am going thru the same thing this week. My daughter

has the eye blinking tic and was put

on Klonipin to help. All this has done is keep her in her room and make her

grumpy and tired and very irritable w/

everyone. I am so tired of thinking and living ocd! I hate this! My daughter

has given up sports, friends and

cheerleading. We used to love to go watch her and interact w/ other people.

Now we just walk on pins and needles

because she will go off on everyone. My 18 yr daughter does everything she can

to stay away cause she can't handle

the hell.

My ocd daugher got her license, but won't leave the house. I hate the routines

and the way our family has become

alienated. I know that is probably my fault! What more can you do when she

chooses not to be around others or

participate in all the events that she went to camp for and was great at. I

know we must not have seen the hell

she was living in.

How do we function normal as husband and wife. It will never be the same!! I

have cried for 2 days over our loss,

but everyone says hang in there it will get better and life will be different.

Well you know what, life is

DIFFERENT AND I HATE IT. I am the one that helped the school to know and help

her, I am the one that set up

counseling and meds. Well I feel I am going crazy over this. I don't even want

to go to work and pretend to be

happy anymore.

Lori

elan214@... wrote:

> From: elan214@...

>

> I come to the list crying and overwhelmed and so unhappy with myself for

> losing it once again, and sure enough there's a thread on being calm.

>

> It's not the OCD, or maybe it is, but I just can't take s behavior

> anymore. All I said today was you left the ice cream out to melt on the

> counter, and full blown rages all day.

>

> I know more and/or different meds some of the answer, ERP not working because

> she won't do it, I know all of that. And her newest tic/compulsion flinging

> her head upside down and back, and all I want her to do is tie back her hair,

> so it won't get so knotty, because I'm the one who has to brush it, and that

> causes a tantrum.

>

> The psychologist (in Penzels group) advocates that we need to let all this

> behavior go, that she's incapable of controlling it, she's incapable of

> putting on her socks because I ask her to, and I should get used to that, she

> can't put her own clothes on because it causes too much stress, and when I

> lean over to help her put on her pants, and I breathe too loudly so she

> smacks me (twice, naturally) I can tell her how that makes me feel, but

> that's it. And believe me, etc. etc. etc.-- I could go on for hours.

>

> End of my rope, I want to run away from home, I don't want to spend the rest

> of my life living like this. I hate myself for becoming this bitchy, angry,

> mean, self-pitying, because i sure do feel sorry for myself, person.

>

> Ellen in NY

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing

> listserv@... .

> In the body of your message write:

> subscribe OCD-L your name.

> The Archives and Links List for the OCD and

> Parenting List may be accessed by going to

> / .

> Enter your email address and password.

> Click on the highlighted list name and then click on message archives by month

or links located in the toolbar.

[Guest guest]

oh do i ever understand what you just said ellen, my son, which is 14, wont take

meds, has stepfather, that is fed

up. 3 yr old that isnt good to see fights. were on spring break this week and i

dread it. told his dad to take him

but he says he doesnt have money, i am even willing to give him money. i know

this sounds awful, but i dont like

being with him any more. yesterday let him go golfing, said please just start

treating us nice. well u can guess

how that was. as much as i hate to admit, i am not a strong person, been on

paxil for 3 yrs, just to help.

thearapist says maybe put him in foster home for behavior treatment, i was shock

at first but now i am thinking

about it. any suggestions???  his dad would be furious, plus i would be afraid

he really will think i dont love

him.

lisa in indiana

elan214@... wrote:

> From: elan214@...

>

> I come to the list crying and overwhelmed and so unhappy with myself for

> losing it once again, and sure enough there's a thread on being calm.

>

> It's not the OCD, or maybe it is, but I just can't take s behavior

> anymore.  All I said today was you left the ice cream out to melt on the

> counter, and full blown rages all day.

>

> I know more and/or different meds some of the answer, ERP not working because

> she won't do it, I know all of that.  And her newest tic/compulsion flinging

> her head upside down and back, and all I want her to do is tie back her hair,

> so it won't get so knotty, because I'm the one who has to brush it, and that

> causes a tantrum.

>

> The psychologist (in Penzels group) advocates that we need to let all this

> behavior go, that she's incapable of controlling it, she's incapable of

> putting on her socks because I ask her to, and I should get used to that, she

> can't put her own clothes on because it causes too much stress, and when I

> lean over to help her put on her pants, and I breathe too loudly so she

> smacks me (twice, naturally) I can tell her how that makes me feel, but

> that's it. And believe me, etc. etc. etc.-- I could go on for hours.

>

> End of my rope, I want to run away from home, I don't want to spend the rest

> of my life living like this. I hate myself for becoming this bitchy, angry,

> mean, self-pitying, because i sure do feel sorry for myself, person.

>

> Ellen in NY

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR!

> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds!  Get rates as low as

> 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.

> Apply NOW!

> 1/2121/3/_/531051/_/954115840/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing

> listserv@... .

> In the body of your message write:

> subscribe OCD-L your name.

> The Archives and Links List for the OCD and

> Parenting List may be accessed by going to

> / .

> Enter your email address and password.

> Click on the highlighted list name and then click on message archives by month

or links located in the toolbar.

[Guest guest]

kathy R

again, your words of wisdom have reached thru my self-pity and made me

promise to try once more to be stronger

Thank you

Ellen in NY

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy:

For me this came about because I would suffer from gloomy thinking, looking

at the worst case scenario rather than being realistic. Also as Steve got

better I learned that this was a more realistic approach than the one I was

taking before of worrying and fretting. I also went through quite a bit of

supportive therapy to help me with this.

I think what helps too is moving along in the natural grieving process into

more acceptance. At first just thinking that Steve had a serious mental

illness would fill me with horror and fear and grief. Now I can think

about it and what it means for his life without that horror. Sure I am sad

that his life has to be like this but I try to focus on the positive parts

and not be overwhelmed by the negative parts.

Right now we are spending the weekend in Kona and he is having an OCD

vacation. Just seeing him reaching out to life and having a good time,

even though I see the tapping and hypermorality breaking through at times,

helps me feel more optimistic.

Another thing that really helped me was reading about how catchy anxiety

is. This is so obvious but somehow I had not incorporated this awareness

into my choices of behavior at difficult times. Now I know when Steve is

anxious I can become that way too easily, and vice versa.

I agree that if you behave one way but feel another this can be quite crazy

making. What helps is that acting calm produces better results in our kids

and this helps to calm us down. When I would get upset, Steve's symptoms

would get way worse, so getting upset really wasn't an option when he was

around. So I would get upset at my therapist's or with friends who

understand. It is very necessary to have a way of blowing off steam like

this. Eventually I just got bored listening to myself whine to the

therapist and I knew I was ready to move on and stop being stuck in painful

grief and endless reviewing of loss.

Kathy, this is a lot of hard work. What helped me stick to acting calm was

seeing the results for Steve, and it helped me feel more of a sense of

being in control of the little I could be in control of. This is

particularly true during an OCD meltdown. I would get a much greater sense

of my emerging competence around OCD meltdowns from being calm, losing it

would make me feel a failure, as if I hadn't learned a thing. This is a

powerful incentive to acting calm.

Certainly having learned how to live with advanced cancer has been a very

helpful experience to help me move along with my feelings and seek the joy

in life before it is gone. I know this sounds harsh but I do believe we

have a choice of how we want to face a difficult situation, even when it

feels overwhelming.

Taking the course " The Journey of Hope " by NAMI taught me the emotional

cycles around living with a mentally ill relative. This helped me to know

any hard feelings would not be with me forever, they might return but they

would leave again.

Please know I am not always doing a good job of being calm. It is a work

in progress. One of my friends here has three kids with various NBDs

including OCD and when I saw how calm she was around them, I decided to try

to be more like her. I figured if this was how she responded after living

with OCD for more than 10 years that was the way to go.

Kathy, hang in there, you are doing a fabulous job with Kel. Take care,

aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 10:25 AM 3/26/00 -0500, you wrote:

>From: " Kathy " <klr@...>

>

>My problem is I haven't been able to get past faking calm to actually

>feeling calm in the face of my daughter's OCD. I behave this way because

>I'm convinced that it helps Kellen quite a bit, but as yet *I* don't feel

>any better from acting this way. I also feel stress from spending my days

>behaving one way but feeling another. Maintaining my calm is something I do

>for Kel's benefit but it's hard on me, not helpful, at least not yet.

>

>Kathy, when did maintaining a calm demeanor begin to benefit you as well as

>Steve? Maybe I just haven't been at it long enough.

>

>Kathy R. in Indiana

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ellen:

The situations you describe would make a saint feel the way you do. What

you are feeling is a very normal human response to a very, very tough

situation. The only good part about these kinds of problems is that we get

angry and find the energy to do things differently.

Have you read Dr. Greene's book about " The Explosive Child " ? This helped

me a lot to back off from confronting every problem situation with Steve.

Dr. Greene teaches us to learn to pick our battles and do this ahead of

time so we don't have to feel that we need to address every problem

situation. Just giving yourself permission to do this takes off a lot of

pressure.

When things were really rough in our family we had to give appearance and

grooming issues a miss, also pretty much any issue that was not a safety

issue. It is so hard as life feels unravelled but it is too exhausting to

pursue every problem like we are used to do when dealing with healthy kids.

OCD can drive a big wedge between us and our beloved OCDers and when they

cannot control their behaviors it unfortunately only escalates the problem

when we continue to press them to improve these behaviors.

I hope the discussion of being/acting calm are not too upsetting. Please

know many of us have experienced similar situations and know how painful

and frightening they are. Take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 07:10 PM 3/26/00 EST, you wrote:

>From: elan214@...

>

>I come to the list crying and overwhelmed and so unhappy with myself for

>losing it once again, and sure enough there's a thread on being calm.

>

>It's not the OCD, or maybe it is, but I just can't take s behavior

>anymore. All I said today was you left the ice cream out to melt on the

>counter, and full blown rages all day.

>

>I know more and/or different meds some of the answer, ERP not working

because

>she won't do it, I know all of that. And her newest tic/compulsion flinging

>her head upside down and back, and all I want her to do is tie back her

hair,

>so it won't get so knotty, because I'm the one who has to brush it, and that

>causes a tantrum.

>

>The psychologist (in Penzels group) advocates that we need to let all this

>behavior go, that she's incapable of controlling it, she's incapable of

>putting on her socks because I ask her to, and I should get used to that,

she

>can't put her own clothes on because it causes too much stress, and when I

>lean over to help her put on her pants, and I breathe too loudly so she

>smacks me (twice, naturally) I can tell her how that makes me feel, but

>that's it. And believe me, etc. etc. etc.-- I could go on for hours.

>

>End of my rope, I want to run away from home, I don't want to spend the rest

>of my life living like this. I hate myself for becoming this bitchy, angry,

>mean, self-pitying, because i sure do feel sorry for myself, person.

>

>Ellen in NY

[Guest guest]

To all those who expressed feelings of hopelessness, frustration, anger and

grief concerning their OCDers. We have all been where you are now, and

take our turns at returning there. I think what helps is time to work

through the grieving process. I heartily second everything that Kathy H

has said. She mentioned NAMI's Journey of Hope class. I do strongly urge

all of you to contact your local NAMI group. You can get the information

through www.nami.org. They have support groups, offer classes and

information on all kinds of things to do with mental illness. There is

also a class for parents of children called Hand-to-Hand. And it doesn't

cost anything unless you choose to join your local chapter. You can

participate without being a member. NAMI has led me to some wonderful

friends who understand because they are living the same things. This list

is a great support, but sometimes you need someone flesh and blood to hold

you while you cry or listen to you scream. We all have tough rows to hoe.

I think one of the most difficult things for me to accept is that I AM

angry at the way my life has turned out and that my feelings are

legitimate. For years I just accepted the fact that I had to keep it all

together and shouldn't allow myself to feel those feelings because " other

people have it worse " . Maybe they do and maybe they don't, but I am

starting to allow myself to say that my feelings ARE legitimate and I have

a right to them. That being said, their legitimacy doesn't mean I get to

parade them around or wallow in them. Yes, I still have to keep it

together so I can be calm (most of the time) dealing with my OCDer, but

it's okay to be mad about it. Sometimes that's enough. I think it's also

important to allow ourselves to be human. Sometimes I can't be calm, but

instead of beating myself up about it I try to apologize and go on. No one

is perfect. The best we can do is find our own way and be willing to

accept support where we find it.

Jule in Cleveland

[Guest guest]

Thank you for all the continued support and kind words. The hardest part for me

is feeling strong and demanding

myself to move forward w/ postive thoughts and feelings. Yet the next day I

have a traumatically sad day. I know

in my heart and mind that I must go on because ocd is not going to go away. I

have never excepted that I cannot

work till I find an answer. Well this one is tough for me. I do believe

because our lives in this home and my

daughter has changed so drastically, that I am mourning the times we shared as a

family. My girl is not the girl I

have known. On one hand I am glad to know the ocd daughter because I look back

and now know she hid it mostly or I

was unaware of what was really happening. I just can't let go of the athletic

events, her being at the pool w/

friends, going to the movie, going to the store w/ me or shopping. Life has

made such a drastic change in such a

short amount of time. I know I am not wanting to except the changes or the ocd.

I just cry everyday that I want

my daughter back!!! How do I get over the grieving process without it tearing

me up. This is not good for my

daughter, family and especially me (as well as my job). Yes to some big degree

I feel like a failure. Yes I am a

fixer, but I feel like a failure because I am falling apart. Deep down I know

this only hurts my daughter's stess

level. Today I was in bed all day w/ a severe stress headache (migraine). This

is due to crying for almost 2 days

straight. Well I layed there and decided this was not worth my health!!! Life

went on for everyone else in my

home, but I became sick over it. Kathy always tells me to begin to take care of

myself, but I really don't know

where to start because I am so very sad. Just one day at a time for me from

here on out. I look at the big sad

picture, not the little accomplishments!

Thank you all for being here for me. I really have no one! This list has

changed my life. I hope someday I will

be able to help someone else as you all have done for me!!

God bless you

Lori-ca

j.monnens@... wrote:

> From: j.monnens@...

>

> To all those who expressed feelings of hopelessness, frustration, anger and

> grief concerning their OCDers. We have all been where you are now, and

> take our turns at returning there. I think what helps is time to work

> through the grieving process. I heartily second everything that Kathy H

> has said. She mentioned NAMI's Journey of Hope class. I do strongly urge

> all of you to contact your local NAMI group. You can get the information

> through www.nami.org. They have support groups, offer classes and

> information on all kinds of things to do with mental illness. There is

> also a class for parents of children called Hand-to-Hand. And it doesn't

> cost anything unless you choose to join your local chapter. You can

> participate without being a member. NAMI has led me to some wonderful

> friends who understand because they are living the same things. This list

> is a great support, but sometimes you need someone flesh and blood to hold

> you while you cry or listen to you scream. We all have tough rows to hoe.

> I think one of the most difficult things for me to accept is that I AM

> angry at the way my life has turned out and that my feelings are

> legitimate. For years I just accepted the fact that I had to keep it all

> together and shouldn't allow myself to feel those feelings because " other

> people have it worse " . Maybe they do and maybe they don't, but I am

> starting to allow myself to say that my feelings ARE legitimate and I have

> a right to them. That being said, their legitimacy doesn't mean I get to

> parade them around or wallow in them. Yes, I still have to keep it

> together so I can be calm (most of the time) dealing with my OCDer, but

> it's okay to be mad about it. Sometimes that's enough. I think it's also

> important to allow ourselves to be human. Sometimes I can't be calm, but

> instead of beating myself up about it I try to apologize and go on. No one

> is perfect. The best we can do is find our own way and be willing to

> accept support where we find it.

>

> Jule in Cleveland

>

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> In the body of your message write:

> subscribe OCD-L your name.

> The Archives and Links List for the OCD and

> Parenting List may be accessed by going to

> / .

> Enter your email address and password.

> Click on the highlighted list name and then click on message archives by month

or links located in the toolbar.

[Guest guest]

Hi Lori:

I am sorry to read that your grief continues relentlessly. If this goes on

for a couple of weeks without ceasing I hope you will see a doctor for help

with medication to stop these feelings of hopelessness. Depression is a

very treatable disorder and getting effective help will allow you to see

the small improvements in your daughter as they start to happen.

You will get back the daughter you have known. I can really relate to your

concerns about this and know that with effective treatment, determination

and time you will be amazed at the way you will get your daughter back.

This probably feels incredible right now but I expect to read posts from

you in a while confirming this. Take care, aloha, Kathy (H)

kathyh@...

At 07:59 PM 3/27/00 -0800, you wrote:

>From: volley4@...

>

>Thank you for all the continued support and kind words. The hardest part

for me is feeling strong and demanding

>myself to move forward w/ postive thoughts and feelings. Yet the next day

I have a traumatically sad day. I know

>in my heart and mind that I must go on because ocd is not going to go

away. I have never excepted that I cannot

>work till I find an answer. Well this one is tough for me. I do believe

because our lives in this home and my

>daughter has changed so drastically, that I am mourning the times we

shared as a family. My girl is not the girl I

>have known. On one hand I am glad to know the ocd daughter because I look

back and now know she hid it mostly or I

>was unaware of what was really happening. I just can't let go of the

athletic events, her being at the pool w/

>friends, going to the movie, going to the store w/ me or shopping. Life

has made such a drastic change in such a

>short amount of time. I know I am not wanting to except the changes or

the ocd. I just cry everyday that I want

>my daughter back!!! How do I get over the grieving process without it

tearing me up. This is not good for my

>daughter, family and especially me (as well as my job). Yes to some big

degree I feel like a failure. Yes I am a

>fixer, but I feel like a failure because I am falling apart. Deep down I

know this only hurts my daughter's stess

>level. Today I was in bed all day w/ a severe stress headache (migraine).

This is due to crying for almost 2 days

>straight. Well I layed there and decided this was not worth my health!!!

Life went on for everyone else in my

>home, but I became sick over it. Kathy always tells me to begin to take

care of myself, but I really don't know

>where to start because I am so very sad. Just one day at a time for me

from here on out. I look at the big sad

>picture, not the little accomplishments!

>Thank you all for being here for me. I really have no one! This list has

changed my life. I hope someday I will

>be able to help someone else as you all have done for me!!

>God bless you

>Lori-ca

[Guest guest]

Dear Lori,

I have been struggling with both anger and depression lately too. My

daughter's illness started 5 yrs. ago when she was 8. And one of the first

things that happened was a hospitalization. We have continued to have a

" rough go " at it----with various diagnosis and med trials--and still have not

had any sustained relief for her. And with the " waxing and waning " of her

symptoms, my emotions ride the rollercoaster too.

Like Kathy R. in Indiana, I too could " act " calm, but it did not carry over

to how I truly felt. (if you like scripture I found I 3:4 about a

" gentle and quiet spirit " to be really helpful). This winter has been awful

for our whole family and OCD and I have felt very often like an utter failure

in my role as a parent.......enough that I wished I could just " give up " . I

too, came to this email group for support and received a lot of it. I

listened to the people here, and my therapist telling me to " take some time

for myself " . I did. I went to a retreat center for a silent retreat. I

tried to find the calm, centering force again--which with me is God.

So? Well, I am slowly recovering from this downward turn in depression,

caused I think from a combination of over-responsibility, burn-out, and grief

over this cruel disorder OCD. I am taking a few more deep breaths, I am

seeing my therapist reguarly again, I am reading " Deep Thoughts " by Jack

Handey for humor, I am practicing " being " calm until I actually " am " calm,

and I am reaching for the hope I know is there.

One person from this list (thanks Terri) sent me some videos and those have

helped tremendously see " hope " again as well as help plan " what to do next " .

And I have been trying to acknowledge my feelings (grief, sadness, loss,

anger, etc.) but not to just " hang on to them " ........

Chronic illnesses cause a lot of stress and loss in a family's life. And this

board is very understanding of that. We have all faced so many of the same

issues. And it is even aggravating to hear people say " hang in there " , but

that is what I am going to tell you to do, because it is what I have to tell

myself too. Look for hope, look for humor, look for love........

Take care, and God bless you,

Laurie in WI

[Guest guest]

Hi Laurie in WI

I'm glad to hear the videos were of some help to you. There is help for

and your family and it's just around the corner. I hope that your

appointment in Madison went well and you can now start to formulate your

plans for the road to recovery. Your a very loving mom and dedicated to

your children.

If you need to talk feel free to call.

Terry in WI

Re: yes

>Dear Lori,

>I have been struggling with both anger and depression lately too. My

>daughter's illness started 5 yrs. ago when she was 8. And one of the first

>things that happened was a hospitalization. We have continued to have a

> " rough go " at it----with various diagnosis and med trials--and still have

not

>had any sustained relief for her. And with the " waxing and waning " of her

>symptoms, my emotions ride the rollercoaster too.

>

>Like Kathy R. in Indiana, I too could " act " calm, but it did not carry over

>to how I truly felt. (if you like scripture I found I 3:4 about a

> " gentle and quiet spirit " to be really helpful). This winter has been

awful

>for our whole family and OCD and I have felt very often like an utter

failure

>in my role as a parent.......enough that I wished I could just " give up " .

I

>too, came to this email group for support and received a lot of it. I

>listened to the people here, and my therapist telling me to " take some time

>for myself " . I did. I went to a retreat center for a silent retreat. I

>tried to find the calm, centering force again--which with me is God.

>

>So? Well, I am slowly recovering from this downward turn in depression,

>caused I think from a combination of over-responsibility, burn-out, and

grief

>over this cruel disorder OCD. I am taking a few more deep breaths, I am

>seeing my therapist reguarly again, I am reading " Deep Thoughts " by Jack

>Handey for humor, I am practicing " being " calm until I actually " am " calm,

>and I am reaching for the hope I know is there.

>

>One person from this list (thanks Terri) sent me some videos and those have

>helped tremendously see " hope " again as well as help plan " what to do

next " .

>And I have been trying to acknowledge my feelings (grief, sadness, loss,

>anger, etc.) but not to just " hang on to them " ........

>

>Chronic illnesses cause a lot of stress and loss in a family's life. And

this

>board is very understanding of that. We have all faced so many of the same

>issues. And it is even aggravating to hear people say " hang in there " , but

>that is what I am going to tell you to do, because it is what I have to

tell

>myself too. Look for hope, look for humor, look for love........

>

>Take care, and God bless you,

>Laurie in WI

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>

>You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing

>listserv@... .

>In the body of your message write:

>subscribe OCD-L your name.

>The Archives and Links List for the OCD and

>Parenting List may be accessed by going to

>/ .

>Enter your email address and password.

>Click on the highlighted list name and then click on message archives by

month or links located in the toolbar.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Iva,

No it didn't take me long to catch on, however I've only really realized

that you're supposed to pull your stomach in as much as possible during

the lift and holding your breath around June of this year. I found LL on

the Internet last summer (99), but I didn't get the tape until this past

Christmas.

My stomach has been my hardest area to tone. I started out doing 10 to 15

different belly exercises with the breathing without alot of results. I

was losing quite a bit in other areas, but my belly has been the

stubbornness. After doing all these belly exercises for quite a few

months I decided that it's time to do something different. This is what I

came up with that started working. I lay on the floor, knees bent, feet

flat on the floor. Go through the breathing process: Blow out the stale

air, take in a deep breath and hold for a few counts, pah it out slowly,

hold my breath, do the lift and flatten my stomach as flat as possible

and hold it as long as I can while holding my breath. I try and really

focus on flattening my stomach. I call this " Belly Flatteners. " I didn't

realize it at the time, however this is the whole breathing process

without doing any other position. It's really helping my stomach along

with the Buttups (Bridge) with the belly pulses.

Love, Liz

________________________________________________________________

YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!

Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!

Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:

http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

[Guest guest]

Liz,

It is so great that you take the time to help others succeed.

You really are wonderful!!

Love,

Rashelle

Hi Iva,No it didn't take me long to catch on, however I've only really realizedthat you're supposed to pull your stomach in as much as possible duringthe lift and holding your breath around June of this year. I found LL onthe Internet last summer (99), but I didn't get the tape until this pastChristmas. My stomach has been my hardest area to tone. I started out doing 10 to 15different belly exercises with the breathing without alot of results. Iwas losing quite a bit in other areas, but my belly has been thestubbornness. After doing all these belly exercises for quite a fewmonths I decided that it's time to do something different. This is what Icame up with that started working. I lay on the floor, knees bent, feetflat on the floor. Go through the breathing process: Blow out the staleair, take in a deep breath and hold for a few counts, pah it out slowly,hold my breath, do the lift and flatten my stomach as flat as possibleand hold it as long as I can while holding my breath. I try and reallyfocus on flattening my stomach. I call this "Belly Flatteners." I didn'trealize it at the time, however this is the whole breathing processwithout doing any other position. It's really helping my stomach alongwith the Buttups (Bridge) with the belly pulses.Love, Liz________________________________________________________________YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

[Guest guest]

Me, too!

Melinda )

Yes

I thought of my friends on this board with military children and

family. Connie :-)

Are you proud enough to send this on??

PLEASE KEEP THIS GOING, EVEN IF YOU HAVE PASSED IT ON BEFORE!!

Please send this on after a shortprayer!

Prayer wheel for our soldiers, sailors, and airmen...please don't break

it

" Lord, hold our troops in your loving hands.

Protect them as they protect us. Bless them

and their families for the selfless acts they perform for us in our time

of need. I ask this

in the name of Jesus, our Lord and Savior. Amen. "

When you receive this, please stop for a moment and say a prayer for our

troops

(land, air, and sea) in Afghanistan,

Kuwait, Iraq & around the world.

There is nothing attached.......

This can be very powerful......Just send

this to people in your address book.

Do not stop the wheel, please....

Of all the gifts you could give the US Military, Prayer is the very best

one.....

We wait....We cry....We worry...

We send letters...

We cry more...and worry more..

But We PRAY, PRAY and PRAY more..

We are ......

MILITARY MOMS & DADS!!!

by someones Mom

=======( " " )=====('''')=======

The secret to enjoying life is to be

thankful for what each day brings!

((~.~))

_____

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[Guest guest]

From: senthil kumar <vivi_skr@...> Sent: Thu, March 10, 2011 6:39:37 PMSubject: Re: YES - Neurological Test

yesFrom: Arhata Osho <arhatafreespeech@...>Subject: YES - Neurological Testarhatafreespeech@...Cc: Superconsciousness , "ProJewZ 12-20-10 f" <ProJewishProZionistGroup >, "2-7-09" < >, "4-18-09" <Mindfocus >, "Aruby 5-29-10" <Arubyrogers >, "Anti 10-09" <Anti_Hate_Pride_League >, "Serenityandtolerance 4-6-10" <Serenityandtolerance >, "SayitloudgayandProud 8-3-10" <SayitloudgayandProud >, "Rampa Path 11-12-10 ( moderator)"

<TheRampaPath >, "Spiritual_Deism 11-19-09" <Spiritual_Deism >, "12-25-08 (Marci)" <StruggleWithJudaism >, Thewayoflovingkindness Date: Friday, 4 February, 2011, 9:18 PM

scroll down

YES! If you can do this forward it on to friends and back to me with the word YES in the subject, but only if you can read this. A Short Neurological Test 1- Find the C below.. Please do not use any cursor help. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 2- If you already found the C, now find the 6 below. 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 69999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 3 - Now find the N below. It's a little more difficult. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMNMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM This is NOT a joke. If you were able to pass these 3 tests, you can cancel your annual visit to your neurologist. Your brain is great and you're far from having a close relationship with Alzheimer. Congratulations! Eonvrye that can raed this rsaie your hnad. To my 'selected' strange-minded friends: If you can read the following paragraph, forward it on to your friends and the person that sent it to you with 'yes' in the subject line. Only great minds can read this This is weird, but interesting! If you can raed this, you have a sgtrane mnid too Can you raed this? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can. I cdnuolt blveiee that I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd what I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in what oerdr the ltteres in a word are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is that the frsit and last ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can still raed it whotuit a pboerlm. This is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the word as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! If you can raed this forwrad it FORWARD ONLY IF YOU CAN READ IT Forward it & put 'YES' in the Subject Line =