Re: article about Price's research

[Guest guest]

This is just typical Quackbuster stuff. They do a lot of name calling make

lots of assertions but don't back anything up. Like " the idea that " body

chemistry " goes in and out of balance is a quack concept " . Who says? They

might in fact be right in what they say but they give no reason to believ

them other than they said so.

Irene

At 02:57 PM 11/30/02, you wrote:

>Hello, I found this article about the Price-Pottenger foundation and

>Price's work, and I am wondering what you all think about it. Note:

>I am not saying that I agree with this man's argument, but I am

>wondering where he gets some of these ideas from. Like where he says

>that the groups Price studied were malnourished from the start and

>that malnourished people don't get many cavities. The link to the

>article is:

>

><http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/holisticdent.html>http://www\

..quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/holisticdent.html

>

>Rebekah

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Note: I am not saying that I agree with this man's argument,

> but I am wondering where he gets some of these ideas from.

Hi Rebekah:

I would wonder where they are getting their ideas from too. (The

article lists 2 authors, Barrett and Jarvis.) I bet

they didn't get their ideas by reading " Nutrition and Physical

Degeneration " . They probably would say they are busy men and

wouldn't have time to read it.

If you are concerned about Price's advice on nutrition in relation

to what these two men know about nutrition, you might ask these two

men to explain to you the relationship between soil fertility and

the nutritional value of food. If they can't explain that the

nutritional value of food is not determined by the species of food

but rather by the soil fertility, you might best disregard whatever

nutritional advice they might give you.

Chi

[Guest guest]

I could spend a half hour rebutting the information from

Barrett but instead I'll just say this and this can be applied to

anything you might read from stephen barrett or quackwatch.

In a battle of wits Mr. Barrett would be unarmed. I'd recommend

just ignoring him.

DMM

> >Hello, I found this article about the Price-Pottenger foundation

and

> >Price's work, and I am wondering what you all think about it.

Note:

> >I am not saying that I agree with this man's argument, but I am

> >wondering where he gets some of these ideas from. Like where he

says

> >that the groups Price studied were malnourished from the start and

> >that malnourished people don't get many cavities. The link to the

> >article is:

> >

>

><http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/holisticdent.html

>http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/holisticdent.html

> >

> >Rebekah

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I haven't looked at the article yet but was just thinking that there are

pictures of the people Price studied in his book and I never thought any of them

looked malnourished, except maybe the people that claimed they lived on the

processed foods and sugars. Just a thought anyway.

Michele

----- Original Message -----

From: Rebekah F-J

Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 2:57 PM

Subject: article about Price's research

Hello, I found this article about the Price-Pottenger foundation and

Price's work, and I am wondering what you all think about it. Note:

I am not saying that I agree with this man's argument, but I am

wondering where he gets some of these ideas from. Like where he says

that the groups Price studied were malnourished from the start and

that malnourished people don't get many cavities. The link to the

article is:

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/holisticdent.html

Rebekah

[Guest guest]

Well, they did a lot of pontificating and very little on offering evidence.

They only cited any type of research to back their opinion once or twice in

the whole article with dozens of assertions.

Their most common assertion is that there is no scientific evidence for the

other side. This may be true in some of the cases, as I am not familiar with

everything they talked about. However, it is surely untrue for certain

parts. For example, on root canals causing jaw cavitations, there is a

large-scale study being conducted currently, or recently (I read an article a

few months ago when it was currently) that was finding 85% of root canals to

end up with these cavitations, and the National Institute of Health was

interested in hopping on board the research project. As to focal infection,

there was an article in one of last year's Scientific American about the

correlation between tooth decay and heart disease, and proposing that

bacteria migrate from the teeth into the bloodstream to contribute to

atherosclerosis.

Interestingly, they forgot to mention the studies Price did analyzing the

nutritional content of the " primitive " 's foods, finding them much more

nourished than Americans, which seems to conflict with their unfounded

assertion that they lacked tooth decay because they were malnourished. (As

if that made any sense anyway.)

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

I glanced at the article and found it interesting that he didn't

mention the fact that these isolated groups had wide dental arches

with no crowding of teeth, whereas people eating white flour/sugar

had crowding of teeth within one generation. You couldn't attribute

perfectly straight teeth to malnutrition! IIRC, one of the

motivating factors in Price's research was the issue of wide vs

narrow dental arches.

> Hello, I found this article about the Price-Pottenger foundation

and

> Price's work, and I am wondering what you all think about it.

Note:

> I am not saying that I agree with this man's argument, but I am

> wondering where he gets some of these ideas from. Like where he

says

> that the groups Price studied were malnourished from the start

and

> that malnourished people don't get many cavities. The link to

the

> article is:

>

>

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/holisticdent.html

>

> Rebekah

[Guest guest]

I should add that contrary to their theory of " excess " Price found numerous

cases in many of the cultures he studied of people who were eating part their

traditional foods, supplemented with modern foods, in addition to people

subsisting mostly or completely on each. These people resembled the modern

generation of Americans, I think-- had several cavities, maybe five or six,

as opposed to half of their teeth having cavities. So it isn't excess, it is

the disease in proportion to the amount of sugary sweets eaten. The two

Gaelic towns he studied were 10 miles apart and ate exactly the same foods,

except in one they were supplemented with the foods that came in from the

port, but also ate all the traditional foods, and the latter had tremendously

more cavities.

Moreover, Price's theory, contrary to what they state, wasn't that sugar

causes cavities, but that it displaces the nutritious foods needed for

healthy teeth. I happen to think that sugar _does_ actively contribute to

tooth decay, but this wasn't Prices theory. The patients he had on the

remineralizing diet ate two meals and however many snacks of junk when at

home, but managed to remineralize their teeth through one meal a day with him.

I do wonder whether they've read the book or not.

I also find their argument arrogant, and nauseatingly racist: that the

cultures Price studied were too stupid to be moderate, and so ate too much

fat before modernization and too much sugar after modernization, as if they

had no self-control and were driven completely by taste. How contrary is the

truth and how nauseating the arrogance.

Chris

In a message dated 12/1/02 4:13:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,

ChrisMasterjohn@... writes:

> Well, they did a lot of pontificating and very little on offering evidence.

> They only cited any type of research to back their opinion once or twice

in

> the whole article with dozens of assertions.

>

> Their most common assertion is that there is no scientific evidence for

the

> other side. This may be true in some of the cases, as I am not familiar

> with

> everything they talked about. However, it is surely untrue for certain

> parts. For example, on root canals causing jaw cavitations, there is a

> large-scale study being conducted currently, or recently (I read an

article

> a

> few months ago when it was currently) that was finding 85% of root canals

to

>

> end up with these cavitations, and the National Institute of Health was

> interested in hopping on board the research project. As to focal

infection,

>

> there was an article in one of last year's Scientific American about the

> correlation between tooth decay and heart disease, and proposing that

> bacteria migrate from the teeth into the bloodstream to contribute to

> atherosclerosis.

>

> Interestingly, they forgot to mention the studies Price did analyzing the

> nutritional content of the " primitive " 's foods, finding them much more

> nourished than Americans, which seems to conflict with their unfounded

> assertion that they lacked tooth decay because they were malnourished.

(As

> if that made any sense anyway.)

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/2/02 1:41:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Idol@... writes:

> Wasn't it Price who discovered that ingestion of sugar causes the fluids

> which course through the tubules in teeth to withdraw for a time, thus

> contributing to tooth decay?

I don't think so, I think that was later, but if it was, Price didn't seem to

subscribe to that theory during the time he was writing N & PD. It seemed

implicit from his use of the terms " displacing foods of modern commerce, "

etc, that he thought sugar was causing tooth decay by displacing

nutrient-dense foods in the diet. Also, his tooth remineralization program

emphasized including nutritious foods in the diet, rather than removing sugar

or white flour from the diet.

I thought it was someone else, but maybe he is the one who discovered that.

Maybe someone else can clue us in.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>Moreover, Price's theory, contrary to what they state, wasn't that sugar

>causes cavities, but that it displaces the nutritious foods needed for

>healthy teeth. I happen to think that sugar _does_ actively contribute to

>tooth decay, but this wasn't Prices theory.

Wasn't it Price who discovered that ingestion of sugar causes the fluids

which course through the tubules in teeth to withdraw for a time, thus

contributing to tooth decay?

-

[Guest guest]

> Wasn't it Price who discovered that ingestion of sugar causes the fluids

> which course through the tubules in teeth to withdraw for a time, thus

> contributing to tooth decay?

I don't think so, I think that was later, but if it was, Price didn't seem

to

subscribe to that theory during the time he was writing N & PD. It seemed

implicit from his use of the terms " displacing foods of modern commerce, "

etc, that he thought sugar was causing tooth decay by displacing

nutrient-dense foods in the diet. Also, his tooth remineralization program

emphasized including nutritious foods in the diet, rather than removing

sugar

or white flour from the diet.

I thought it was someone else, but maybe he is the one who discovered that.

Maybe someone else can clue us in.

-------->according to Pat McConnelly, curator of the Price-Pottenger

Foundation archives, that was indeed Price's contention - that sugar has a

systemic harmful effect. She mentioned in a recent interview that a

researcher at Loma Univ. confirmed this theory by *injecting* sugar

into rats - bypassing any contact with the teeth. IIRC, it slowed blood flow

in some kind of tubules in their mouths that bring nutrients to the teeth

for something like 36 hours after injection. sorry, i'm hazy on the details.

i think the researcher found that the *effects* of *injected* sugar were

equavalent to the effects of *consumed* sugar. This is all to the best of my

recollection, so don't hold me to the details :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

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