Re: Improvements-to Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/30/02 7:51:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,

talithakumi@... writes:

> His stool is extremely well-formed, evacuation quick and regular, and the

> most surprising to me is that he doesn't even need toilet paper!

Wondeful! I notice that I often don't need toilet paper now, so I will have

to look for a correlation with my diet, raw foods etc. :-P

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

Marla, you did very, very well discussing a subject that probably belongs in the

sewer. I do remember that those problems should disappear when eating

correctly. You are right about all of us being different. But I think you

really said a long when you talked about your husband being on other types of

diets and the one that settled his symptoms was less " one-fooded " and more a

combination and different types of mostly raw foods. I

May I ask, how does he eat his raw eggs? I make eggnog, and just tried a

wonderful egg custard. And though I don't have any ready at the moment, plan to

use them in steak tartare. I have a bad habit of liking a food and so eating it

quite a bit then can't face it ever again after a few weeks or months. Having

learned so much about myself over the extremely long time I've been on this

earth and eating, I am hoping to avoid that pitfall with the raw eggs, which I

have just started to get.

Judy

Marla <talithakumi@...> wrote:

Hi Becky:

> What sort of " interesting improvements " ?? Curious minds want to

> know...

>

### First off, for those of you that don't like to hear about stinky stuff,

you can stop reading right now. . . Okay then, moving right along, B's (he

didn't want his name typed. heehee) always had very odorous sweat and, if

he wasn't careful, breath too. When we went totally raw vegan, his body

odor and breath improved tremendously along with some spasms in his gall

bladder area that he had for about 15 years or more. BUT, he started to get

really (and I mean really) gasey and his bowel movements were extremely

smelly. Especially when he had cabbage. I didn't know that people could

get that smelly until I read Ross's Diet Cure book and found that

probably needed more fats in his diet. Extremely smelly stool was

listed as a symptom in one of her questionaires. Then he swung all the way

to the heavy raw meat consumption, but then started to have his spasms

return in his gall bladder area. (He stumbled upon the raw meat diet while

searching for natural ways to remineralize teeth.)

To make a long story short, he eventually returned to eating lots of raw

veggies and sprouts combined with some raw meats, usually raw eggs, raw

milk, raw cheeses, and whatever bone broths I happen to have ready. He

claims that the enamel on his teeth seems to be growing back and that his

teeth feel stronger. He thinks that he started to have trouble with his

teeth years ago when he got heavily into tofu and sour fruits. Aside from

his teeth improvements, his bowel movements are almost odorless. (Yeay!)

His stool is extremely well-formed, evacuation quick and regular, and the

most surprising to me is that he doesn't even need toilet paper! Ha ha! He

couldn't believe it when it first started happening, so he forced me to

look! (Ah, the joys of marriage.) Oh, he did tell me that he does need

toilet paper if he eats too many nuts. His breath is also fresh, and he's

no longer gasey.

His diet seems to be working for him. But, like everything else, we are all

different, and I can't go on his diet easily. I break out in rashes when I

eat completely raw eggs and sprouts. I seem to do better with a little

cooked foods. ( We don't need to get in to what my stools look like, but

you get the idea. Hehe.)

So there you have it, you're part of the family. )

Marla

[Guest guest]

> His stool is extremely well-formed, evacuation quick and regular, and the

> most surprising to me is that he doesn't even need toilet paper!

Wondeful! I notice that I often don't need toilet paper now, so I will have

to look for a correlation with my diet, raw foods etc. :-P

---------------->well that puts a new twist on conservation...eat right,

save a tree

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Hi Judy:

> May I ask, how does he eat his raw eggs?

### He just scrambles them up in a bowl with a fork, then drinks it.

>I have a bad habit of liking a food and so eating it quite a bit then can't

face it ever again after a few weeks or months.

### Ha ha! I've done that too! But, I usually find something else to

replace it rather quickly. )

Marla

[Guest guest]

Becky,

From the foods I've heard the Inuit ate I'd guess you're right. They ate a

whole lot of blubber! In fact, most of the American Indian populations I've

read of, at least in the colder climates, seemed to eat fat as their primary

food. When I was in Montreal at the Botanical Gardens, they had an exhibit

on Amerindian plants, and the explanations set up described how they ate

them. They put fat on everything. Bear grease, or fat from numerous

different animals I didn't know people ate fat from, they ate with berries,

etc.

I got an out-of-print personal copy of one of Steffanson's friends, of My

Life With the Eskimo, so after I read it over the winter break, I'll let you

know what I come across in there. I think there are some people on this list

who have already read it though, maybe they have a more educated opinion.

Chris

In a message dated 12/31/02 9:13:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,

beckymauldin@... writes:

> Thanks Marla,

>

> I've had similar improvements on a raw diet like body odor going

> away, excellent digestion and elimination, and better teeth. My

> teeth have never been great in the past, and got much worse on my

> vegan diet, heavy in grains, but on this diet they feel as good as

> they ever have. I haven't been to the dentist though, so I don't

> have any " proof " of them improving...

>

> I also had many of my old symptoms return when my all raw diet

> consisted of alot of animal protein. From what I'd read, as long as

> it was raw, it was OK, but now I don't think so. From what Bieler

> says, you can have too much protein. When I cut back to a more

> reasonable amount, I felt much better. In NT, a 20% protein intake

> is what the primitive cultures consumed. And reading about how

> little protein other animals need (around 20%, except for

> carnivores), this sounds like what I should aim for.

>

> One thing that bothers me is how the Eskimos are used to promote a

> high protein diet because that's what they ate...But in reality, I'm

> starting to think that many more calories came from all the fat they

> ate...I have not seen any real numbers on the particular quantities

> of fat vs. protein they ate, so I could be wrong... Any thoughts on

> this??

>

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

Also, Becky,

I wonder how to get lots of calcium without overdoing protein. Raw milk

products or bone broths seem to be the best, but they are both high in

protein.

Still, I consume more fat than protein in terms of calories, I think. Milk

is also loaded with fat, and I eat an additional pound of butter per week,

with a quart of raw cream if I can, mixed into my milk, or as whipped cream,

and some olive oil, sometimes coconut oil.

Maybe it is individual metabolism? I noticed great improvements in my health

when I started including raw meat in my diet.

Chris

In a message dated 12/31/02 9:13:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,

beckymauldin@... writes:

> Thanks Marla,

>

> I've had similar improvements on a raw diet like body odor going

> away, excellent digestion and elimination, and better teeth. My

> teeth have never been great in the past, and got much worse on my

> vegan diet, heavy in grains, but on this diet they feel as good as

> they ever have. I haven't been to the dentist though, so I don't

> have any " proof " of them improving...

>

> I also had many of my old symptoms return when my all raw diet

> consisted of alot of animal protein. From what I'd read, as long as

> it was raw, it was OK, but now I don't think so. From what Bieler

> says, you can have too much protein. When I cut back to a more

> reasonable amount, I felt much better. In NT, a 20% protein intake

> is what the primitive cultures consumed. And reading about how

> little protein other animals need (around 20%, except for

> carnivores), this sounds like what I should aim for.

>

> One thing that bothers me is how the Eskimos are used to promote a

> high protein diet because that's what they ate...But in reality, I'm

> starting to think that many more calories came from all the fat they

> ate...I have not seen any real numbers on the particular quantities

> of fat vs. protein they ate, so I could be wrong... Any thoughts on

> this??

>

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

Thanks Marla,

I've had similar improvements on a raw diet like body odor going

away, excellent digestion and elimination, and better teeth. My

teeth have never been great in the past, and got much worse on my

vegan diet, heavy in grains, but on this diet they feel as good as

they ever have. I haven't been to the dentist though, so I don't

have any " proof " of them improving...

I also had many of my old symptoms return when my all raw diet

consisted of alot of animal protein. From what I'd read, as long as

it was raw, it was OK, but now I don't think so. From what Bieler

says, you can have too much protein. When I cut back to a more

reasonable amount, I felt much better. In NT, a 20% protein intake

is what the primitive cultures consumed. And reading about how

little protein other animals need (around 20%, except for

carnivores), this sounds like what I should aim for.

One thing that bothers me is how the Eskimos are used to promote a

high protein diet because that's what they ate...But in reality, I'm

starting to think that many more calories came from all the fat they

ate...I have not seen any real numbers on the particular quantities

of fat vs. protein they ate, so I could be wrong... Any thoughts on

this??

Becky

>

> ### First off, for those of you that don't like to hear about

stinky stuff,

> you can stop reading right now. . . Okay then, moving right

along, B's (he

> didn't want his name typed. heehee) always had very odorous sweat

and, if

> he wasn't careful, breath too. When we went totally raw vegan, his

body

> odor and breath improved tremendously along with some spasms in his

gall

> bladder area that he had for about 15 years or more. BUT, he

started to get

> really (and I mean really) gasey and his bowel movements were

extremely

> smelly. Especially when he had cabbage. I didn't know that people

could

> get that smelly until I read Ross's Diet Cure book and found

that

> probably needed more fats in his diet. Extremely smelly

stool was

> listed as a symptom in one of her questionaires. Then he swung all

the way

> to the heavy raw meat consumption, but then started to have his

spasms

> return in his gall bladder area. (He stumbled upon the raw meat

diet while

> searching for natural ways to remineralize teeth.)

>

> To make a long story short, he eventually returned to eating lots

of raw

> veggies and sprouts combined with some raw meats, usually raw eggs,

raw

> milk, raw cheeses, and whatever bone broths I happen to have

ready. He

> claims that the enamel on his teeth seems to be growing back and

that his

> teeth feel stronger. He thinks that he started to have trouble

with his

> teeth years ago when he got heavily into tofu and sour fruits.

Aside from

> his teeth improvements, his bowel movements are almost odorless.

(Yeay!)

> His stool is extremely well-formed, evacuation quick and regular,

and the

> most surprising to me is that he doesn't even need toilet paper!

Ha ha! He

> couldn't believe it when it first started happening, so he forced

me to

> look! (Ah, the joys of marriage.) Oh, he did tell me that he does

need

> toilet paper if he eats too many nuts. His breath is also fresh,

and he's

> no longer gasey.

>

> His diet seems to be working for him. But, like everything else,

we are all

> different, and I can't go on his diet easily. I break out in

rashes when I

> eat completely raw eggs and sprouts. I seem to do better with a

little

> cooked foods. ( We don't need to get in to what my stools look

like, but

> you get the idea. Hehe.)

>

> So there you have it, you're part of the family. )

>

> Marla

[Guest guest]

Becky,

Was milk and butter and cheese and eggs included in the animal protein? It is

interesting what you said about the protein and fat - I think I associate fat as

being an animal protein since it comes from an animal (except for olive oil of

course). I guess I need to go back and read up more on this. Have you found

that cutting back on animal protein but not fat helps you more?

Also, I seem to remember you stopped grains and had a great improvement, but now

you can eat the sourdough bread you made. So, the soaked grain recipes in the

NT book also gave you trouble? Do you eat any of them prepared by soaking? I

have a lot of grains I would like to eat.

Also, could I ask what troubles you had that were helped by finding the right

diet for you? I really want to get to feeling better, but I think my problem is

I don't make big enough changes. I try one thing and it doesn't seem to help

anything. What you have said about how you feel and your diet really gives me

the motivation to make more changes.

How do you calculate the 20% protein? Is that 20% of your total calories?

Do you use meat broths - and how would they count as proteins?

Could the Eskimoes' bodies be adapted for that diet? Their climate and

lifestyle need that? I tend to believe the more sedentary lifestyle many of us

lead affects how our bodies react to diet. I would think their lifestyles were

vigorous enough that their bodies handled protein differently. Just a guess!

Judy

" beckymauldin2001 <beckymauldin@...> " <beckymauldin@...>

wrote:Thanks Marla,

I've had similar improvements on a raw diet like body odor going

away, excellent digestion and elimination, and better teeth. My

teeth have never been great in the past, and got much worse on my

vegan diet, heavy in grains, but on this diet they feel as good as

they ever have. I haven't been to the dentist though, so I don't

have any " proof " of them improving...

I also had many of my old symptoms return when my all raw diet

consisted of alot of animal protein. From what I'd read, as long as

it was raw, it was OK, but now I don't think so. From what Bieler

says, you can have too much protein. When I cut back to a more

reasonable amount, I felt much better. In NT, a 20% protein intake

is what the primitive cultures consumed. And reading about how

little protein other animals need (around 20%, except for

carnivores), this sounds like what I should aim for.

One thing that bothers me is how the Eskimos are used to promote a

high protein diet because that's what they ate...But in reality, I'm

starting to think that many more calories came from all the fat they

ate...I have not seen any real numbers on the particular quantities

of fat vs. protein they ate, so I could be wrong... Any thoughts on

this??

Becky

>

> ### First off, for those of you that don't like to hear about

stinky stuff,

> you can stop reading right now. . . Okay then, moving right

along, B's (he

> didn't want his name typed. heehee) always had very odorous sweat

and, if

> he wasn't careful, breath too. When we went totally raw vegan, his

body

> odor and breath improved tremendously along with some spasms in his

gall

> bladder area that he had for about 15 years or more. BUT, he

started to get

> really (and I mean really) gasey and his bowel movements were

extremely

> smelly. Especially when he had cabbage. I didn't know that people

could

> get that smelly until I read Ross's Diet Cure book and found

that

> probably needed more fats in his diet. Extremely smelly

stool was

> listed as a symptom in one of her questionaires. Then he swung all

the way

> to the heavy raw meat consumption, but then started to have his

spasms

> return in his gall bladder area. (He stumbled upon the raw meat

diet while

> searching for natural ways to remineralize teeth.)

>

> To make a long story short, he eventually returned to eating lots

of raw

> veggies and sprouts combined with some raw meats, usually raw eggs,

raw

> milk, raw cheeses, and whatever bone broths I happen to have

ready. He

> claims that the enamel on his teeth seems to be growing back and

that his

> teeth feel stronger. He thinks that he started to have trouble

with his

> teeth years ago when he got heavily into tofu and sour fruits.

Aside from

> his teeth improvements, his bowel movements are almost odorless.

(Yeay!)

> His stool is extremely well-formed, evacuation quick and regular,

and the

> most surprising to me is that he doesn't even need toilet paper!

Ha ha! He

> couldn't believe it when it first started happening, so he forced

me to

> look! (Ah, the joys of marriage.) Oh, he did tell me that he does

need

> toilet paper if he eats too many nuts. His breath is also fresh,

and he's

> no longer gasey.

>

> His diet seems to be working for him. But, like everything else,

we are all

> different, and I can't go on his diet easily. I break out in

rashes when I

> eat completely raw eggs and sprouts. I seem to do better with a

little

> cooked foods. ( We don't need to get in to what my stools look

like, but

> you get the idea. Hehe.)

>

> So there you have it, you're part of the family. )

>

> Marla

[Guest guest]

See comments below..

> Also, Becky,

> I wonder how to get lots of calcium without overdoing protein. Raw

milk

> products or bone broths seem to be the best, but they are both high

in

> protein.

This is one thing I do wonder about. I wonder how the native

cultures got so much calcium...Their soil was richer in calcium most

likely, so that would make all plant life higher in calcium. What

about the Eskimos eating bones? I bet the stock is not very high in

protein, but rich in calcium. I do take Coral Legend though..

>

> Still, I consume more fat than protein in terms of calories, I

think. Milk

> is also loaded with fat, and I eat an additional pound of butter

per week,

> with a quart of raw cream if I can, mixed into my milk, or as

whipped cream,

> and some olive oil, sometimes coconut oil.

>

Sounds like what I eat! I think I calculated it out the other day,

but I figured I got 1,500 calories just from fat! Wow!

>I noticed great improvements in my health

> when I started including raw meat in my diet.

Glad to hear you did too.

Becky

[Guest guest]

See comments below...

--- In , Judy Toney <jtseniors@y...>

wrote:

>

> Becky,

> Was milk and butter and cheese and eggs included in the animal

protein?

Yes, the total amount of protein was too high. Butter is fat not

protein.

>Have you found that cutting back on animal protein but not fat helps

you more?

Most definately, since I don't eat any grains. If anything, I

increased the fats...

> Also, I seem to remember you stopped grains and had a great

improvement, but now you can eat the sourdough bread you made. So,

the soaked grain recipes in the NT book also gave you trouble?

Well, so far the sourdough seems to be OK. I did have some symptoms

from some sourdough pretzels that were not proofed long enough. Now

I know better...The only soaked grain recipe I have tried since

learning I react to wheat is oatmeal porridge. I made sure I let it

sit for 2 days in a warm (85-90 degree) place. This was fine. I

will try wheat one of these days to see how I do. I have more

confidence that the sourdough culture eats up what I react to...

>Do you eat any of them prepared by soaking?

When I used to prepare the soaked flour recipes, I was not careful

about setting it in a warm place, so that could have been my

problem. I've been trying our sourdough first...but I plan on trying

other things to see what I can handle.

>I have a lot of grains I would like to eat.

I lost my craving for alot of grains on this diet. I still miss them

sometimes...that's why I'm trying out this sourdough. Still I only

eat it occasionally.

> Also, could I ask what troubles you had that were helped by

finding the right diet for you?

Well, all of them. I have covered my actual symptoms in detail in

earlier posts. Put the words " raw Becky " in the search field and it

should bring it up for you.

>I really want to get to feeling better, but I think my problem is I

don't make big enough changes. I try one thing and it doesn't seem

to help anything. What you have said about how you feel and your

diet really gives me the motivation to make more changes.

You hit the nail on the head. The most important thing I have

learned in studying natural healing is that all the successful

healing regimes make tons of healthy changes ALL AT ONCE. That is

the key. If you get serious about it, you will get serious results.

I wanted to see if an all raw diet really does bring results, but I

had to do it 100% to find out. And now I know the sacrifice is worth

it!

> How do you calculate the 20% protein? Is that 20% of your total

calories?

I think that is what Sally meant in NT. I keep track of it by the

amount of volume of protein I eat. I will try to calculate it

sometime...

> Do you use meat broths - and how would they count as proteins?

Only when I eat cooked protein in a meal. I don't think they are

significant sources of protein, but that is a guess...

> Could the Eskimoes' bodies be adapted for that diet? Their climate

and lifestyle need that? I tend to believe the more sedentary

lifestyle many of us lead affects how our bodies react to diet. I

would think their lifestyles were vigorous enough that their bodies

handled protein differently. Just a guess!

Maybe...I would like to know more details of the Eskimo diet. I just

know _I_ don't do well with alot of protein and it makes me wonder if

anyone did.

Becky

[Guest guest]

Hi Becky:

> I've had similar improvements on a raw diet like body odor going

> away, excellent digestion and elimination, and better teeth.

### That's great to hear! )

> I also had many of my old symptoms return when my all raw diet

> consisted of alot of animal protein. From what I'd read, as long as

> it was raw, it was OK, but now I don't think so. From what Bieler

> says, you can have too much protein.

### Yes, Bieler did believe you can get too much protein, but he also

differentiated between cooked and raw protein. I *think* he was referring

to getting too much cooked protein because he went in to some discussion of

the body's inablity to utilize cooked protein efficiently while the body

easily used raw protein. He also discussed the excellent health of the

Eskimo and some African groups who were heavy meat eaters.

When I cut back to a more

> reasonable amount, I felt much better. In NT, a 20% protein intake

> is what the primitive cultures consumed. And reading about how

> little protein other animals need (around 20%, except for

> carnivores), this sounds like what I should aim for.

### This is where it really matters--what actually happens in life. My

husband felt better cutting back on the meat too. Theory is okay, but

actuallity is what really counts. We have to do what works for us.

>

> One thing that bothers me is how the Eskimos are used to promote a

> high protein diet because that's what they ate...But in reality, I'm

> starting to think that many more calories came from all the fat they

> ate...I have not seen any real numbers on the particular quantities

> of fat vs. protein they ate, so I could be wrong... Any thoughts on

> this??

### I haven't seen any ratios either, but I think you're right, they ate a

lot more fat than is popularly known. In the book Karluk, one of the

Eskimos that McKinlay was friendly with was one of the hunters. McKinlay

wanted him to hunt for more food, but the Eskimo (I forget his name) wasn't

worried about hunting just yet because he said they had a lot of fat on

hand. Then again, the Eskimos ate other meats aside from fish/seafoods,

such as bear and, I think, caribou and reindeer.

One thing that has impress on my mind as far as the health of the Eskimo is

something Stefansson wrote in his book Cancer: Disease of Civilization? He

documents another author who wrote that the Eskimo commonly had nosebleeds

that were so severe that sometimes they would pass out because of weakness

due to loss of blood. Hmm. Too much fish oil? What do you think?

Stefansson didn't mention that was his personal observation, though.

Marla

[Guest guest]

>

> > How do you calculate the 20% protein? Is that 20% of your total

> calories?

Percent of calories is about the only way you can figure it since weight and

volume varies so depending on the water content. Incidently lean meat, on

average, still gets 50% of its calories from the fat in the meat. The

standard way of calculating protein requirements is grams per pound of body

weight. My old diet manual say for adults 0.4 gm/lb for protein, but I'm

getting about 0.6 gm/lb now, pushing to get a little extra protein. An ounce

of cooked meat or cheese, or 1 egg has about 7 gm of protein, a cup of milk

8 gm. Veggies have about 2 gm protein per 1/2 cup serving.

> I think that is what Sally meant in NT. I keep track of it by the

> amount of volume of protein I eat. I will try to calculate it

> sometime...

>

> > Do you use meat broths - and how would they count as proteins?

I wish I knew the protein content of broths, but I don't trust any of the

nutrient data bases to give the analysis of a good broth. I wouldn't think

they are a major source of protein.

Kris

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this info!

Kris <kris.johnson@...> wrote:>

> > How do you calculate the 20% protein? Is that 20% of your total

> calories?

Percent of calories is about the only way you can figure it since weight and

volume varies so depending on the water content. Incidently lean meat, on

average, still gets 50% of its calories from the fat in the meat. The

standard way of calculating protein requirements is grams per pound of body

weight. My old diet manual say for adults 0.4 gm/lb for protein, but I'm

getting about 0.6 gm/lb now, pushing to get a little extra protein. An ounce

of cooked meat or cheese, or 1 egg has about 7 gm of protein, a cup of milk

8 gm. Veggies have about 2 gm protein per 1/2 cup serving.

> I think that is what Sally meant in NT. I keep track of it by the

> amount of volume of protein I eat. I will try to calculate it

> sometime...

>

> > Do you use meat broths - and how would they count as proteins?

I wish I knew the protein content of broths, but I don't trust any of the

nutrient data bases to give the analysis of a good broth. I wouldn't think

they are a major source of protein.

Kris