Re: beer was mild food poison

[Guest guest]

Hi Vivian,

As of this moment I don't make my own beer, althought that will be

changing in the near future. I have the good fortune of living in the

Northwest where unpastuerized beer of varying levels of quality is fairly

easy to come by.

Many of the microbrews are unpastuerized but filtered and stored cold

(which stops the aging process). A number of beers are unpastuerized and

unfiltered, which is better, but are still stored cold, which stops the

aging process. And then some are cask conditioned (and organic) which are

processed with no heat, unfiltered, and allowed to undergo a secondary

fermentation in the cask (which is a little smaller than a keg) and

pumped without using CO2. They are also not cold stored which serves not

to arrest the aging/fermentation process.

This is by far the preferred method and is what the Campaign For Real Ale

was/is all about. You might do a web search on this campaign, I think you

will find some interesting material. There are also a number of supply

houses which can provide you with instructions and organic ingredients.

Here in the Northwest there are a number of good brewers using organic

ingredients discovering the old ways. For beer drinkers like myself it is

an exciting time. Ginger ale and root beer? Bah humbug! Bring me a great

cask conditioned ale :-)

Happy Holidays,

Bianca

On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 21:45:37 -0500 " Vivian Kooken " <vslk@...>

writes:

Bianca,

I have been wanting to experiment with making beer...Can you post your

recipe and instructions? What type of special equipment is needed, if

any, and where do you get it?

TIA,

Vivian

Now I just let my favorite lacto-fermented

beverage - cask conditioned ale - handle any problems that might arise

:-)

Oh, in case you are wondering, thats beer. Unfiltered, unpastuerized,

secondary fermented beer! The same stuff the Campaign for Real Milk was

patterned after.

Cheers,

Bianca

[Guest guest]

>Ginger ale and root beer? Bah humbug! Bring me a great

>cask conditioned ale

Believe me, Bianca, I'd much prefer beer to root beer and ginger ale, but

if drink beer, I'll weigh 500 pounds, and I can assure you it won't all be

muscle. I envy you people who can indulge without your systems going

haywire as a result, but I'm stuck just having the very occasional beer.

-

[Guest guest]

ive been injured a number of months now ( over 6 )

been pigging out nt style and have been a total sloth. lots of butter,

bacon ect and my abs are still visable. ( some fat there to ) but u

can still see em

what i did previous was yoga ( and started pilates )

i recomend these as the muscle hangs around for a logn while it seems.

( im not big, infact skinny )

so do one of these a few times a week and enjoy that beer!

( my mild food poison has subsided somewhat last this evening, so im

on cheery mood

>

> >Ginger ale and root beer? Bah humbug! Bring me a great

> >cask conditioned ale

>

> Believe me, Bianca, I'd much prefer beer to root beer and ginger

ale, but

> if drink beer, I'll weigh 500 pounds, and I can assure you it won't

all be

> muscle. I envy you people who can indulge without your systems going

> haywire as a result, but I'm stuck just having the very occasional beer.

>

>

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 02:41:29 -0500 Idol <Idol@...>

writes:

>Ginger ale and root beer? Bah humbug! Bring me a great

>cask conditioned ale

Believe me, Bianca, I'd much prefer beer to root beer and ginger ale, but

if drink beer, I'll weigh 500 pounds, and I can assure you it won't all

be

muscle. I envy you people who can indulge without your systems going

haywire as a result, but I'm stuck just having the very occasional beer.

-

What is interesting is that cask conditioned ales do not cause me to gain

weight, in fact I tend to lose weight if I'm not paying attention. What I

mean by that is that if I'm on the road (for example) my diet tends to be

dominated by flesh foods because they are the only things I can obtain

raw or very rare rather conveniently. Add beer to the mix and I lose

weight. Same goes for French wines.

Once when I was in Vegas for pleasure (and not work) I ate nothing but

very rare steaks, steak tartar, carpaccio, sliced ahi (raw), caviar,

oysters on the half shell, an ocassional salad w/ev olive oil, cask

conditioned ales, french wines, and some very dry french champagne. I

lost weight and alcohol was at every meal.

This is most decidedly *not* true of " regular " beer and most wines.

Indulge in that, no matter what my diet, and I can count the pounds the

NEXT day.

A few years back a friend if mind, a confirmed junk fooder, noticed he

lost a lot of weight in Europe while drinking a ton of their ales (and

still eating junk). It was the first thing I thought of after this

particular vegas trip.

Since then that experience has been confirmed over and over, with me and

others. So I'm inclined to believe that beer per se is not the problem,

but the adulteration of beer may be the root of the troubles.

Bianca

[Guest guest]

Bianca,

Excuse me for butting in.

Where do you find real ale? Do you have a list of brewers in the

United States or can you refer me to a website? Can one make real ale

at home? I have brewed a few batches of decent ale from 's

Brewing. Thanks for any help.

Dale Miskimins

Elkton, SD

>

>

> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 02:41:29 -0500 Idol <Idol@c...>

> writes:

>

> >Ginger ale and root beer? Bah humbug! Bring me a great

> >cask conditioned ale

>

> Believe me, Bianca, I'd much prefer beer to root beer and ginger

ale, but

>

> if drink beer, I'll weigh 500 pounds, and I can assure you it won't all

> be

> muscle. I envy you people who can indulge without your systems going

> haywire as a result, but I'm stuck just having the very occasional beer.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -

>

> What is interesting is that cask conditioned ales do not cause me to

gain

> weight, in fact I tend to lose weight if I'm not paying attention.

What I

> mean by that is that if I'm on the road (for example) my diet tends

to be

> dominated by flesh foods because they are the only things I can obtain

> raw or very rare rather conveniently. Add beer to the mix and I lose

> weight. Same goes for French wines.

>

> Once when I was in Vegas for pleasure (and not work) I ate nothing but

> very rare steaks, steak tartar, carpaccio, sliced ahi (raw), caviar,

> oysters on the half shell, an ocassional salad w/ev olive oil, cask

> conditioned ales, french wines, and some very dry french champagne. I

> lost weight and alcohol was at every meal.

>

> This is most decidedly *not* true of " regular " beer and most wines.

> Indulge in that, no matter what my diet, and I can count the pounds the

> NEXT day.

>

> A few years back a friend if mind, a confirmed junk fooder, noticed he

> lost a lot of weight in Europe while drinking a ton of their ales (and

> still eating junk). It was the first thing I thought of after this

> particular vegas trip.

>

> Since then that experience has been confirmed over and over, with me and

> others. So I'm inclined to believe that beer per se is not the problem,

> but the adulteration of beer may be the root of the troubles.

>

> Bianca

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bianca,

Would most micro-brewery ale be considered real ale?

Thanks again.

Dale Miskimins

Elkton, SD

[Guest guest]

No. Real Ale is beer that has been allowed to undergo a secondary

fermentation in the cask, thus removing the need for pastuerization

because the fermentation kills any bad buggers. Real Ale is generally

drunk at about 50 to 55 degrees, much warmer than your typical american

brew.

Most unpasturized microbrews have not undergone such a process, which is

why they are refrigerated. Many of them are filtered as well, removing

some valuable material, but some aren't. There is a local company here

that makes a great IPA that is unpastuerized and unfiltered, but has not

been subject to a secondary fermentation.

You should always check with brewer to see if the beer is actually

unpastuerized. Redhook says unpastuerized on their label. I don't drink

Redhook unless I have no choice and I just recently emailed them to find

out what they mean. Many however are not labeled and that is where a good

wine buyer comes in handy. He/she will access to that info (and will

probably be surprised that you asked).

For a microbrew or any beer that is somewhat equivalent to a cask

conditioned ale, look for something on the label that says authentically

bottle conditioned. Deshutes Brewery in Oregon comes to mind. Before

buying a bottle conditioned microbrew I would email the company and make

sure that the beer has not been pastuerized.

There are a number of good imports that have undergone a secondary

fermentation (Chimay comes to mind). But they are more expensive, and

there are other tradeoffs as well depending on the brewer.

Hope that helps,

Bianca

On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 18:48:25 -0000 " dale_miskimins <doc@...> "

<doc@...> writes:

Bianca,

Would most micro-brewery ale be considered real ale?

Thanks again.

Dale Miskimins

Elkton, SD

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 18:41:35 -0000 " dale_miskimins <doc@...> "

<doc@...> writes:

Bianca,

Excuse me for butting in.

****But in too your heart's desire :-)

Where do you find real ale? Do you have a list of brewers in the

United States or can you refer me to a website?

****Here is info on the campaign for real ale.

http://www.camra.org.uk/SHWebClass.ASP?WCI=ShowCat & CatID=1

Here is how you can find cask conditioned ale:

http://www.cask-ale.co.uk/real/realale.html

Once you are up to speed on what you are looking for you can call around

to see who has what.

Another sight on understanding real ale with some good links and info

about the Real Ale Festival held here in the states:

http://www.cask-ale.co.uk/real/realale.html

Can one make real ale

at home?

****You sure can. There are some links in a couple of the above sites

that should send you on your merry way. In the mean time below you will

find some more a brief excerpt on real ale.

happy fermenting,

Bianca

You can't read much about English beers without running into the term

" real ale. " While the subject encompasses more subtle issues, a basic

definition can be provided in 35 words or less:

" A name for a draught (or bottled) beer brewed from traditional

ingredients, matured by secondary fermentation in the container from

which it is dispensed and served without the use of extraneous carbon

dioxide. "

The pinnacle of real ale is represented by " cask-conditioned ale " -the

usual draft format for serving such products. A cask is a stainless steel

(or occasionally wood) barrel which is made to be laid on its side while

the beer is served. The term " cask-conditioned " indicates that secondary

fermentation of the ale has taken place inside the cask.

A group called the Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA) in Britain has been

working since 1971 to revive and preserve the traditions of " real " and

" cask-conditioned " ale. Fortunately, they have been quite successful.

Draft bitters and some pale ales may be " real ales " when you drink them

in the UK these days. Indeed, a beer that the typical American tourist

would describe as " warm and flat " most likely falls into this

classification - although real ale adherents would argue that their type

of beer is both cool and noticeably carbonated.

The distinction between real ale in its cask form and normal draft from a

keg comes as the result of activities by both the brewer and the

cellarman. For starters, brewers often " dry hop " their cask ales, adding

hop plugs to the beer before the cask is bunged. And, as mentioned above,

draft real ales are cask-conditioned-carbonated by secondary fermentation

in the cask. Thus when real ale brewers ship their beer, it is actively

fermenting. When it arrives at the pub (or at the festival site), such

beer requires careful management to ensure that it is served in good

condition. As a result of these actions by the brewer, " cellarmanship " is

an important skill as it impacts many qualities of the product when it is

served. During the entire history of the Real Ale Festival, Steve Hamburg

has served as the head cellarman for the event and it is thanks to his

efforts that the beer pours clear and tastes great.

When properly served, a good real ale will be transparently clear, with

no cloudiness or haze. In addition, it will be at cellar temperature (50

to 57°F) and it will have a subtle but noticeable level of carbonation.

[Guest guest]

Ah yes, the joys of research :-)

Bianca

On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:50:26 -0500 (EST) vslk <vslk@...>

writes:

Bianca,

What a wealth of information! Thanks. Using those links I found the

Portsmouth Brewery in NH, which is quite close by. It seems as though

some breweries are bottling their " live " ales also, so they can be

enjoyed

at home (Smuttynose here in New England). I'm guessing live means

unpasteurized, but may or may not be " cask-conditioned " ?

Well, I'll have fun looking into this ;o)

Vivian

[Guest guest]

Bianca-

>What is interesting is that cask conditioned ales do not cause me to gain

>weight, in fact I tend to lose weight if I'm not paying attention.

As I love (love!) beer, I wish this were true for me, but I kind of doubt

it. Some things that make me fat but give other people no such problems

are home-made kombucha, genuinely raw and unheated honey (even in tiny

quantities), and raw milk. Even heavy raw cream and home-made kefir made

with half cream and half milk and soured to the point of unpleasantness at

best impede weight loss. So though I'd love to drink beer and actually

lose weight as a result, I kind of doubt it'd happen. Do you have any idea

why real ale would have a weight loss effect on anyone, though? It sounds

quite curious.

(There are, apparently, a few bars here in Manhattan which serve

cask-conditioned ales, so I might go try a couple, all in the spirit of

investigation and experiment, you understand... <g>)

-

[Guest guest]

Marla-

>Did you take your kombuch before or after meals? I think I read that for

>weight loss to take it before meals and for weight gain take it after meals.

Between or shortly before meals, I think, but it's been awhile.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi :

Some things that make me fat but give other people no such problems

> are home-made kombucha,

Did you take your kombuch before or after meals? I think I read that for

weight loss to take it before meals and for weight gain take it after meals.

I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what I read. Also, I don't

recall how much time to wait before eating a meal or how long to wait after

eating a meal. I have not read that you take it *with* a meal. Maybe for

you it doesn't matter.

Marla

[Guest guest]

Hmmm...I'll have to check this out when I'm at the Real Ale festival, or

is this a seasonal brew?

Bianca

On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 21:21:29 -0600 Dale Miskimins <doc@...>

writes:

Bianca & Native-nutrition friends,

I also checked out some of the links and discovered Goose Island Ale

which is a " bottle conditioned " pale ale from Chicago. I am enjoying

some now. Thanks for your help Bianca.

Dale Miskimins

Elkton, SD

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 01:34:37 -0500 Idol <Idol@...>

writes:

Bianca-

>What is interesting is that cask conditioned ales do not cause me to

gain

>weight, in fact I tend to lose weight if I'm not paying attention.

As I love (love!) beer, I wish this were true for me, but I kind of doubt

it. Some things that make me fat but give other people no such problems

are home-made kombucha, genuinely raw and unheated honey (even in tiny

quantities), and raw milk.

*****,

Interesting. I've never had kombucha, lots of honey will cause me to gain

weight unless my diet is 100% raw (it is usually about 85%), and dairy

with beer will cause a weight gain if I'm not careful. So when I'm at

home and I'm drinking milk/kefir (normally two quarts a day) I have to

leave the beer for the weekends. On the road however raw milk isn't

normally available so I can drink beer to my hearts content.

I can also get away with the beer/dairy/honey combos when I'm actively

exercising, then it has no effect. But recently my exercise habits are

kind of hit and miss.

Mr. Vonderplanitz has an interesting theory as to why one gains weight on

raw foods. He believes it is the bodies way of preparing for a serious

detox by building up the fat stores, but from what I can gather that

seems to be more true of women than men.

I've also discovered something else a couple of years back, when I'm

eating lots of coconut products for at least a six month stretch, I can

eat whatever I want and no weight gain whatsoever. I think both Sally and

Ray Peat mention that coconut over time can make you " hypermetabolic " (it

may have been an article in Wise Traditions and not Sally directly).

So I guess for me, if I want the best of both worlds I should go back to

consistent exercise and eating lots of homemade coconut cream and milk.

Sounds like a good idea to me but good coconuts around here are a

seasonal item.

Even heavy raw cream and home-made kefir made

with half cream and half milk and soured to the point of unpleasantness

at

best impede weight loss. So though I'd love to drink beer and actually

lose weight as a result, I kind of doubt it'd happen. Do you have any

idea

why real ale would have a weight loss effect on anyone, though? It

sounds

quite curious.

*****I have no idea although I have given it some thought. I've seen it

happen enough that at least for some folks there is something that is

being triggered by the consumption of real ale.

Like I said for me it occurs with a diet high in flesh foods (same result

when I'm drinking wine as well) but with others the diet didn't seem to

much matter. Any thoughts?

(There are, apparently, a few bars here in Manhattan which serve

cask-conditioned ales, so I might go try a couple, all in the spirit of

investigation and experiment, you understand... <g>)

*****Oh I forgot you were in New York. Yep, I think you might find some

good choices in the winter months in NYC, IIRC. Ahh..duty can be a

wonderful and terrifying thing all at once <weg>.

Let us know what your field work uncovers.

Bianca

[Guest guest]

Bianca-

>and dairy

>with beer will cause a weight gain if I'm not careful. So when I'm at

>home and I'm drinking milk/kefir (normally two quarts a day) I have to

>leave the beer for the weekends.

How interesting. Though I'm pretty sure of the outcome, I do plan to go to

a beer bar here in Manhattan that serves cask-conditioned ale (now that I

know about it) and see what happens, but I'll make sure not to have any

dairy that day just for added protection. (At worst I'll have a nice

excuse to go out and have a couple beers for a change. <g>)

>I've also discovered something else a couple of years back, when I'm

>eating lots of coconut products for at least a six month stretch, I can

>eat whatever I want and no weight gain whatsoever.

Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be true of me. I eat 6-8 tablespoons

of coconut oil per day (the centrifuged Coconut Oil Supreme that's supposed

to be unheated) and while it does help a little, it certainly doesn't

immunize me to fat gain. Then again, I'm a special case, since I have an

extremely rare, heritable thyroid problem that nobody really understands.

-

[Guest guest]

Bianca,

The actual name of the pale ale is Goose Island Honker's Ale. I noticed

they do have a seasonal ale too.

Dale Miskimins

Elkton, SD

bianca3@... wrote:

> Hmmm...I'll have to check this out when I'm at the Real Ale festival, or

> is this a seasonal brew?

>

> Bianca

>

> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 21:21:29 -0600 Dale Miskimins <doc@...>

> writes:

> Bianca & Native-nutrition friends,

> I also checked out some of the links and discovered Goose Island Ale

> which is a " bottle conditioned " pale ale from Chicago. I am enjoying

> some now. Thanks for your help Bianca.

> Dale Miskimins

> Elkton, SD

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Where is this place???

Thanks,

I do plan to go to

a beer bar here in Manhattan that serves cask-conditioned ale

[Guest guest]

-

>Where is this place???

There are three in Manhattan:

Blind Tiger Ale House

518 Hudson Street (on the corner of West 10th Street).

Tel: (212) 675 3848

d.b.a.

41 1st Avenue, East Village (between 2nd and 3rd Streets).

Tel: (212) 475 5097

The Ginger Man

11 East 36th Street (between 5th and Madison Avenues).

Tel: (212) 532 3740

The Ginger Man is supposed to be more expensive, though, so I'll probably

be trying either the Blind Tiger or d.b.a.

-