Problem with Doctors

[Guest guest]

Greetings,

I fear doctors some of the time..Mainly because they are healthy

and I'm not..This doesn't mean they don't have compassion or a

real desire to help..But if there's one thing that has separated

people throughout the world it's Health , or the lack of

it..It's really nobody's fault but there are 2 camps of

peoples..The Healthy and the Sick, and never the twain shall

meet, or almost never...No matter what, it's just one of those

ineluctable facts of life and there's not much that can be done

about it, other than to be aware that there is a gulf between

the 2 groups..And after pondering on the differences over the

years, the reasons for the division is atavistic..For millenia

whenever a member became sick or disabled, the tribe had to

leave them behind in order to survive themselves..The concept of

Social Services just didn't exist until recent times..When man

was climbing Darwin's tree, there was just no room for the

lame..I think this all comes together in Darwin's origin of

species..The best an injured person could hope for was water and

some nuts and berries and maybe a spear to ward off the

scavengers for awhile..This method of operation was the

unwritten law for countless thousands of years dating back maybe

500,000 years...long enough so that it was programmed into our

genetic code and the imprint is still there.(however

slight).just beneath the surface..

It's kind of scary and I try not to dwell on the subject too

much but I have occassionally thought if this time were about

5,000yrs ago, i would have been left behind with some berries

and nuts to sustain me..No sense in asking for a spear because

my vision stinks and probably would not be able to see predator

coming at me until it reached 3 feet away..And of course, given

all symptoms of Reiter's since age 25-26, I probably would not

have made it much past that age anyway..I don't dwell on these

thoughts but aside from some short amusement, there is much

truth and reality to what I say...So I guess we should in some

ways, thank goodness that we live in these enlightened times

when there is a social conscious of a sorts..As bad as things

get, they could be worse..And that's coming from someone who is

sitting at this computer with a level of pain right around 8 or

9, depending whose scale is being used..Back to the message I

started off with, doctors are healthy members (of the tribe) and

although they've come such a long way, fact is they still have

some remnants of the old atavistic imprint in their genetic

code..On average they do a superb job of suppressing the

atavism..I would never put down a doctor because i just haven't

earned that right....they're brilliant and compassionate for

most part ; but I always keep reminding myself that on some

level they are working to keep that rogue gene under wraps and

for me when I have problems with doctors, I often think the

problem can be traced to the gulf between healthy and sick..It

helps me to get over some often bruised feelings I occassionally

receive from doctors...

I like wildlife shows and spend a lot of time at Discovery

channel..Several times they've replayed a marvelous documentary

taken over 3 - 4 yr period on some very large reservation in

South Africa..A lot of the story has to do with friendship and

bonding among a half-dozen lionesses from birth to

adulthood..they hunted and lived together and were about as

tight as animals can get..One night, there was this ferocious

bloodletting between lions and hyenas..The next day the

remaining healthy members reassembeled at their favorite acacia

tree..All were there except for one..During the battle she

received serious damage to one leg and it took all her energy to

get back with the pride.But Insead of being embraced by other

pride members, she was shunned because there was no room for one

who couldn't pull her own weight and certainly no room for

sentimentality..She was forcibly removed from pride grounds and

subsequently died a short while later.. Having lived with a

deep wound of sorts I occassionally think of that lioness..Not

that it has had a profound effect on me and there's no

existential message...It's just reality..That's the way things

are..or in our case, that's the way things use to be among

humans up until very recently..I often manage to dig these holes

for myself when writing from what amounts to a stream of

consciousness..I have no appropriate ending or denouement ..Just

that it pays to realize we live in such enlightened times..I

would gladly welcome any comments, criticism or just plain

differences of opinion..Personally I use these observations to

help me get past doctors who are short on bedside manners..I

figure they're doing their best..

jeff lanneau, rs, as, fibro.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

From: " Jefferson lanneau " <jlanneau@...>

< >

> Greetings,

> I fear doctors some of the time..Mainly because they are healthy

> and I'm not..

then you have to meet my Orthopaedist. He has two artificial shoulders and

one artificial knee. He certainly understands the dynamics of pain. Of

course when ever he decides to fly he really sets the metal detectors off.

My pain regimen at the moment is

Percocet up to 10 tablets per day, Prozac 40 mgm per day, Elavil 10 mg 3

times a day and two at bedtime,

For the heart and also the Parkinson's, Lanoxin .375 mgm and Inderal 10 mgms

three times a day.

The Percocet is written out as 1000 tablets to be dispensed 200 at a time.

However I do not run into problems as Health Canada, and the College of

Physicians and Surgeons have already checked out my case file. I also

qualify for the Medicinal Use of Marijuana but the paperwork is crazy. Much

more so than the paperwork for Percocet.

+Dave

AS/RS/RA/PA/Parkinson's/CML (in remission at the moment)

Older than dirt.

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[Guest guest]

Hi, I'm new to this, just wondering what is your disease. I have crohns and

was just diagnosed with Reiter's and started on methotrexate. I have serious

problems getting pain medicine. Although I am up to 9 norco a day, trying to

cut down and it is really hard. Diane.

[Guest guest]

Dave, I was just thinking about you this AM. It has been awhile since I have

seen posts from you. I have a hard time keeping up with all the posts these

days so maybe I've missed some. My health has been fairly stable. I've just

been busy. I'm trying to do some professional sewing from my home and I'm a

little nervous about the venture. Take care.

Kay

[Guest guest]

From: " Kay Braddock " <KayBraddock@...>

> Dave, I was just thinking about you this AM. It has been awhile since I

have seen posts from you.

Hi Kay

Thanks for the thoughts. While I do not post often I still read the posts

from the list and also pray over all of you daily.

My problem is that with the " promotion " within the Church I have become much

busier which is a two edged sword. I like being busy but my med problems

also get busier when I get too active.

We have just finished bringing some very disparate Orthodox Churches under

our Ukrainian Orthodox Catholic Church banner. This is no easy feat as

these different groups have been feuding for centuries.

+Dave

AS/RS/RA/PA/Parkinson's/CML (in remission at the moment)

Older than dirt.

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[Guest guest]

> From: " Jefferson lanneau " <jlanneau@...>

< >

> Greetings,

> I fear doctors some of the time..Mainly because they are

healthy

> and I'm not..

(I apologize for not cutting +Dave's post of yesterday..I

honestly couldn't figure out where to cut...without taking away

from the substance of what he had to say....)

******

***

Now that's an enlightened doctor and an enlightened Country,,No

atavism there ..So instead of Oriental hamsters, what this

country needs is more doctor''s who've experienced pain like

that of +Dave's ..Problem is, short of morphing them or cloning

them, how do we come up with such doctors? No way..... ... Way

You know the (sad) fact is, if there were more physicians like

+Dave's we'd all be getting the right amount of pain

relief..Unfortunately, that's about what it would take..

And just one closing remark about addiction to pain meds, which

we all know is rare for people who live with chronic pain..I get

so darn annoyed when some very healthy young lady who is acting

psychoanalyst for pain mgmt team..tells me how bad or dangerous

any number of popular painkillers can be for my health.. " You

don't want to get hooked " .. " Oh yes I do " if it will make this

bitchin' pain go away..And I'm really not getting hooked on the

drug, just the drug's beneficial effect, which could give me

back part of my life through less pain..But you know what,

nobody in the medical community around here want's to hear such

nonsense ..It really has come down to this.. Their 'nonsense' is

my salvation and never the twain shall meet, except in rare

situations like +Dave...

jeff lanneau

[Guest guest]

Since Adrienne was 9, she had intened to go into medicine. She has not

totally left that idea, but the tremors and fatigue make the goal seem harder

to reach. She begins at the University of Washington in the school of Arts

and Sciences with an undeclared major this fall.

Personally, I think it would be Awesome if she were to go into Rheumatology

eventually. Right now, she is enjoying Musical Theater... Hmmm could be a

long road between that and med school.... But it is so awesome to have a

doctor who actually KNOWS what the patient is feeling. I think that is why

her Neurologist is so wonderful! Dr Lucus suffers greatly from headaches...

and is active finding ways to control them.

K

Adrienne's Mom

Adrienne age 18

Spondy, CFS, Fibro, Hypo Thyroid, Senior in High School... Counting down to

Graduation day.

[Guest guest]

I couldn't agree with you more!!! We all know if the doctor's suffered this

kind of pain they would be taking pain killers. Or if one of their loved ones

was suffering, they would write them a prescription without the lecture. I

hope to one day find a doctor that understands the limitations chronic pain

can put on a persons life. If we can prove that we have a chronic painful

illness I think it should be our decision on wether to take pain meds or not,

we are the one's suffering because they have " the power " . Thanks for

listening, Diane.

[Guest guest]

Ray, I wanted to thakyou for your response. You've got a point too it, just

doesn't seem like I've ran into a caring doctor since my original dr. moved

to DesPlaines. and my original rheumatologist is no longer practicing

medicine. Can you tell me what they do aat a pain clinic? I've heard of them

but I haven't found one in the area that I live{Glendale Heights, Illinois}.

I would appreciate it if you could tell me how they help people with chronic

pain. I will be out of medicine in two days.Thanks, Diane.

[Guest guest]

Diane,

I think you have a point. There are, however, many good doctors

who do in fact have disabling condtions that cause chronic pain.

Such doctors do seem to have greater insight into and sympathy for

their patient's complaints.

Most doctors have been taught that pain is temporary. Fix the

problem that causes the pain and you bring an end to the pain.

That may be true for some injuries and some diseases that can

actually be healed. However, most of us seem to have the chronic

form of our diseases. And because of that we will not be " healed "

and therefore will continue to experience pain on a daily basis.

I know at least one rheumatologist that I would like to curse with

a visitation of unrelenting pain. I saw her for a consult just

prior to going to the pain clinic for the first time. She wrote

that I had a very low tolerance for pain. I wanted to " torture "

her with just a day or two of the pain I felt. I have held down

successful professional positions and coped with a growing family

for many years despite high levels of pain. My conclusion was that

she really had no experiences that could allow her to have any kind

of sympathy for her patients.

It bothers me greatly when a member of this list writes that their

doctor has given them pain medications but will be reducing and

eventually eliminating the pain medications. Nothing could be

harder on a patient that to find that there are medications that

will help control the pain, but that these medications will be

tapered off and eventually eliminated. How horrible to taste how

wonderful life can be with controlled pain, and then to be cast

back into uncontrolled pain.

Treating chronic pain means that the medication must achieve a

therapeutic level in the blood stream and that that level must be

sustained with a regularly scheduled doseage. To be on a

roller-coaster of pain because of undertreatment is a merciless

torture. Been there, done that.

One doctor gave me a limit of two Darvon pills a day. Their effect

lasted 3-4 hours leaving me another 8-9 hours of pain before I

could take another pill. That was cruelty beyond measure.

The biggest problem after non-treatment of pain is under-treatment

of chronic pain.

Ray

[Guest guest]

Hey Jeff, Just read your message about the lioness. Just think you are a

male in this day and age. Women are still second class citizens in some mens

eyes, even the Dr.'s. I get some real mess ups. Last time I moved I was

given a NSAIDS, because he didn't believe I was in that much pain. I was on

Morphine when I got there. Well, needless to say the fool didn't read my

chart that I have ulcers, and then they started to bleed. Now he passes the

buck and says his partner gave me the NSAIDS without reading my chart. I've

never seen his partner. Then when they were going to give me Ultram the

insurance won't cover without a good reason, the Dr. never got back to them

for a month. I was suicidal by then. Then he sent me to another

rheumatologest to have more tests. I have been dealing with this stuff since

I was 19, I am now 52. I get it everytime I see a new Dr. I only take

lorazapam for my nerves when I go to the Dr. I don't know about anyone else

out there, but my next life I hope I am the male lion! EFD

[Guest guest]

I used to get the same problem in the lower spine, neck and shoulder, and also

painful breasts for about a fortnight before my periods.

I am now 65 and in pain in the lower back and bladder every night and for much

of the day. All this was made worse when I was sterilized, and due also to drugs

that I was placed on that in turn caused weight gain. It led to incontinence. In

the end repair work was done on a rectocyle and cystocyle, and the pain

improved, but a warning I felt so much better that I got a job that entailed

heavy lifting of newspapers, as I ended up with a chest infection and the pain

came back. I think it damaged the repair on the rectocyle. Painkillers worsen it

as they in turn cause constipation.

>

> I went for blood tests this morning and my doctor has phoned me and told me I

need to have them done again because they went wrong. I knew what the problem is

I take 150mg t3 daily, I did not take any this morning but even so.

>

> I did not know what to do as he had spoken to a lab tech and they told him I

must give another sample as either there was a mistake or I'm in trouble. My TSH

was 0. he said one was low one was high, I presume t3 high t4 low. I only went

for a cholestral check as my optition told me I had white rings in my eyes and

the doctor saw that I had had thyroid tests and decided to do a full panel.

>

> I ended up telling him I was self treating as I thought it was daft to go back

for more tests as they would only be the same. He did not argue with me, just

told me I could have a stroke etc etc. He also said he would talk to the lab

tech and get back to me. I have not been on the group for a while as I am a lot

better. In fact I only get problems two weeks a month one week before my period

and the week of it. I have just gone on the pill microgynon to try and help

this, so far it is just making me feel sick.

>

> Sorry this is a long ramble what I would like help with is:

>

> When the doctor comes back to me what can I say, have you anything I can point

him to, to help.

>

> Does anyone else have the same problem with real bad shoulder, neck and lower

back pain that is for two weeks around their period.

>

> Thanks

> Caroline

>

[Guest guest]

Can anyone else help me with this. I am so worried about what he is going to do,

strike me off, etc.

Also he says from my results I'm going to have a stroke. I know this is wrong

but my dad was due to fly to canada for 4 1/2 weeks fly drive holiday on 11th

Sept, he was fit and well. He had been stung by a dozen or so wasps and had arm

pain since. He went to the doctors on the tuesday they said he was fine. On

thursday sept 10 he had a massive heart attack and he died on the early hours of

sept 11. This is playing on my mind and as I take such a high dose of T3 I'm

frankly a little scared.

Thanks for any advice for the doctors or for myself.

Caroline

---

[Guest guest]

Hi Caz

I don't think he would strike you off just like that. He will probably want to

try and work with you to sort things out.

What's your history? Were you diagnosed with hypo by the NHS or did you just

start treating yourself? Did you ever get treatment from the NHS or take levo

etc. or did you just start straight away on high-dose T3?

Lou

[Guest guest]

>

Hi Lou

My history I was diagnoised with stress by NHS in about 2000, got a private

diagnosis of Fibromyalgia.

Did lots of reasearch including this site and worked out it was thyroid related.

Saw Dr P got diagnoised, started on Armour. This made me worse gave me terrible

headaches. Dr P said I was not converting T4 to T3 put me on T3. Since then at

first under Dr P upped T3.

In between I tried to get NHS diagnosis and told nothing wrong.

I have got myself pretty well and have just gone back to work, albeit part time.

Hope that helps.

Caroline

[Guest guest]

Have you 'spoken' to Val on the US adrenals/RT3 group? She's very knowledgable

and has been on T3 only for some time I believe maybe she could point you to

some research papers that would help show it's safe (or not).

RT3_T3/

NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

Doesn't Dr Lowe take about 150mcg t3 a day? Maybe his site would be of help to

you. http://www.drlowe.com/

sorry i can't be of more help

Chris

Sorry to hear about your dad.

[Guest guest]

Hi Caroline

When the doctor comes back to you with all sorts of 'scary'

stories about what might happen to you and tells you that you could have a

stroke, I would be tempted to say " the reason I have been doing the

necessary research to find out what was making me so ill is because mainstream

diagnostic and treatment protocol for diagnosis and management of

hypothyroidism leaves a lot to be desired and Internet and Thyroid Support

groups throughout the UK are overflowing with thousands of sufferers who are

NHS failures because doctors will only give a diagnosis if the thyroid gland

function tests are outside of the TSH ref. range and they only treat with the

mainly inactive hormone levothyroxine.

Tell him that you found thyroxine must convert to the active hormone

triiodothyronine (T3) through the liver, kidneys and other thyroid receptors and

that it is T3 your every cell in your body and brain need to make them

function.

Tell him that his serum thyroid gland function tests do not test

for peripheral hormone metabolism, peripheral hormone reception or peripheral

hormone deficiencies (Peripheral Resistant Hypothyroidism) - and ask him if he

is even aware of this.

Tell him the RCP, BTA et al. and the endocrinology specialty as

a whole are ignoring 40 years of science, ignoring peripheral thyroid hormone

resistance, dismissing peripheral conversion and discrediting diagnostics and

banning their therapies (T3) Current literature reveals an extensive list of

mutations, drugs, toxins, metabolites and autoimmune antibodies that may impair

TH action in the cell, but such impairment may not be picked up by assays of TH

and TSH in blood plasma. Ask him to do you the courtesy of reading the

following paper Tjørve E, et al., On commonness and rarity of thyroid

hormone resistance: A discussion based on mechanisms..., Med Hypotheses (2007),

doi:10.1016/j.mehy.2006.12.056  

Tell him that these patients are being systematically ignored

and denied proper diagnostics and treatments, in spite of medical science

having defined deficient peripheral metabolism and peripheral cellular hormone

reception (Thyroxine Resistant Hypothyroidism). These patients form a

counterexample to prevailing reliance on blood tests and levothyroxine- only

treatment and are diagnosed and treated in accordance with existing

endocrinology practice without success.  There is sufficient medical and

clinical research to demonstrate that patients with peripheral thyroid hormone

deficiencies could be successfully treated with triiodothyronine (T3)

containing products, either synthetic or natural. Such treatment is now under

increasing threat of proscription by the medical authorities.

Luv - Sheila

I went for blood tests this morning and my

doctor has phoned me and told me I need to have them done again because they

went wrong. I knew what the problem is I take 150mg t3 daily, I did not take

any this morning but even so.

I did not know what to do as he had spoken to a lab tech and they told him I

must give another sample as either there was a mistake or I'm in trouble. My

TSH was 0. he said one was low one was high, I presume t3 high t4 low. I only

went for a cholestral check as my optition told me I had white rings in my eyes

and the doctor saw that I had had thyroid tests and decided to do a full panel.

I ended up telling him I was self treating as I thought it was daft to go back

for more tests as they would only be the same. He did not argue with me, just

told me I could have a stroke etc etc. He also said he would talk to the lab

tech and get back to me. I have not been on the group for a while as I am a lot

better. In fact I only get problems two weeks a month one week before my period

and the week of it. I have just gone on the pill microgynon to try and help

this, so far it is just making me feel sick.

Sorry this is a long ramble what I would like help with is:

When the doctor comes back to me what can I say, have you anything I can point

him to, to help.

Does anyone else have the same problem with real bad shoulder, neck and lower

back pain that is for two weeks around their period.

Thanks

Caroline

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19:39:00

[Guest guest]

I had this trouble with my endo, the scary warnings about 'too much T3' and

having a heart attack or stroke.

I told him I'd much prefer to have a heart attack and die than lower my dose of

Armour or go back to levothyroxine. He tried to argue with me til I said 'Have

you any idea what this sort of pressure and stress does to me as a patient?' He

backed off a little then!!

You don't need a cholesterol check unless you want to see if its come down now

you are on better medication. More people with LOW cholesterol have heart

attacks than those with high!!

[Guest guest]

Thanks Chris

I'm actually thinking about having an email or phone consultation with him. I

first heard about possible thyroid connections to fibromyalgia by an friend who

went to US to visit. She is now completely well, and yes I wish I could afford

it.

Caroline

>

> Have you 'spoken' to Val on the US adrenals/RT3 group? She's very

knowledgable and has been on T3 only for some time I believe maybe she could

point you to some research papers that would help show it's safe (or not).

>

> RT3_T3/

> NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

> Doesn't Dr Lowe take about 150mcg t3 a day? Maybe his site would be of help to

you. http://www.drlowe.com/

>

> sorry i can't be of more help

>

> Chris

>

> Sorry to hear about your dad.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that, I told my husband the same thing last night.

I was also reading eat fat get slim and it said women especially are better with

higher cholestrol.

Regards

Caroline

>

>

> I had this trouble with my endo, the scary warnings about 'too much T3' and

having a heart attack or stroke.

> I told him I'd much prefer to have a heart attack and die than lower my dose

of Armour or go back to levothyroxine. He tried to argue with me til I said

'Have you any idea what this sort of pressure and stress does to me as a

patient?' He backed off a little then!!

>

> You don't need a cholesterol check unless you want to see if its come down now

you are on better medication. More people with LOW cholesterol have heart

attacks than those with high!!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Shelia

Thanks

I have copied a load of stuff and am going to take it to him. He hasn't actually

rung back yet so may just forget about the whole thing.

Regards

Caroline

>

> Hi Caroline

>

> When the doctor comes back to you with all sorts of 'scary' stories about

> what might happen to you and tells you that you could have a stroke, I would

> be tempted to say " the reason I have been doing the necessary research to

> find out what was making me so ill is because mainstream diagnostic and

> treatment protocol for diagnosis and management of hypothyroidism leaves a

> lot to be desired and Internet and Thyroid Support groups throughout the UK

> are overflowing with thousands of sufferers who are NHS failures because

[Guest guest]

Dr Peatfield is much cheaper Caroline, and has nothing to sell -

so I would trust the advice coming from somebody who makes nothing out of it

than somebody who is selling thyroid hormone replacements. Sorry, just the way

I feel.

Luv - Sheila

Thanks Chris

I'm actually thinking about having an email or phone consultation with him. I

first heard about possible thyroid connections to fibromyalgia by an friend who

went to US to visit. She is now completely well, and yes I wish I could afford

it.

Caroline