Re: need milk for calcium?

[Guest guest]

cherylhcmba wrote:

> He recommends Tums as and inexpensive calcium supplement however and

> I do not think that is a great source either.

I agree with you and that's enough silliness to put me off what else he

says.

Tums and all antacids swallowed tell the body that it made too little

acid (as it is now all gone and a feedback loop detects that) and so it

makes more next time.

It's a vicious circle and a doctor should know that :-)

Besides they all lacks the oil, etc to absorb calcium left after the

stomach acid is destroyed.

> The kids in Kenya probably have so many deficiencies that it becomes

> hard to pin anything on one mineral. It could also be deficiencies

> of vitamin K, C or protein needed to induce adequate alkaline

> phosphatase for absorption.

It could be, but it wasn't in the study in question :-)

> A 4'11 " mother and a 6'3 " daughter, now that is interesting

> genetics. Walking is not enough weight bearing for a person that

> slight. Heavy old girls like me can get by with it though.

My mother wondered about the genetics too. When I chose to study

genetics it was the first thing she wanted explained. She didn't

appreciate my joke about the dustman :-)

Tall is recessive autosomal in humans so my two shortish parents had a

tall daughter by each carrying a tallness gene form their respective

mothers who were both over 6 foot.

I agree my mother needed more exercise than she got by walking in her

70s and 80s. But she had rickety bones and artificial knees etc by then

and the options were limited. She played hockey in her younger years and

tennis, but her bones were devoid of proper calcium from a young age.

> The Japanese reference underscores the fact that there is no magic

> number for everyone. It depends on weight, exercise level, diet,

> environment (sunlight for vitamin D) and blood type, of course.

There's no magic number but there is a minimum requirement in relation

to size. BAsically if you want a lot of bone you need a lot of calcium.

Japanese on average can get by on 600 mg, Americans on average need

1000 mg or more daily, and Australia's research points to 1200 mg

minimum for the average person and is more recent. It measures the

calcium actually absorbed and used by the body on a reasonable

controlled diet.

How much calcium you need is fixed - how effectively you absorb it

is variable. But if you want bone, you have to consume the right minimum

amount. It's not like we can get by with 500 mg of calcium in the diet.

You still have to consume what you need :-))

As a 6 foot 3 person I probably need more than the average AMerican who

needs 1000mg. My mom probably needed less than 1000 mg but she was not

getting it. My sons nearer 7 foot in height drank milk by the gallon

growing up and still do. They have extremely strong bones. I know their

needs are much higher again than mine. I look small next to them and

that takes doing :-)

I'm quite willing to get my 1200 to 1500mg of calcium a day from

somewhere besides milk in my diet so as to be O-compliant if possible -

IF there is somewhere - but I don't know of a place and am not prepared

to have 6 foot 3 of brittle hollow sponge where my bones belong in order

to stick to a diet with a good theory on other aspects.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

> I'm not convinced milk is not the answer, but I am open to

suggestion.

> So far nobody suggested a viable alternative in the diet :-)

> By viable, I mean an amount from food that can reasonably be

consumed daily.

>

> I'd like there to be an alternative :-)))

>

> Namaste,

> Irene

If you aren't eating things that leech the calcium from your

bones, you don't NEED as much calcium. That's your alternative

right there.

[Guest guest]

kathy matthews wrote:

> Doing healthy oil with milk is probably not answerable. If milk is not

> good for you, if you don't digest it well just doing a healthy oil will

> not make a lot of difference.

Hi,

I am not concerned about digesting it - I digest it extremely well. In

fact when I was very ill from allergic reactions in 1972, milk was for

nearly 6 months, the *only* food I could tolerate. I gradually managed

to re-introduce other foods starting with pears, and then beef, but milk

is what kept me alive in the hospital for 6 months.

> cherylhcmba <cherylhcmba@...> wrote:

> I had written in a post you must have missed, wondering if having a

> healthy oil with skim milk would bring it up to the same level as

> whole milk. That sounds reasonable to me.

I did see that post, but did not comment as I had already mentioned I

take a teaspoon of olive oil five times a day with each meal/snack.

It seems there are more issues with milk than digestibility. What

concerns me is to know about any aspect that would be bad for my health.

I'm not worried about details like digestibility, it's a non-issue in my

case, and I'm not worried about weight gain issues as that also is minor

and controllable, nor about supposed gut irritation as I have none of that.

What would concern me is some kind of reaction that messed up my

immune system or some other hidden aspect. I'd then want to know how and

why at a chemical detail level so I can figure out whether I can counter

it with a suitable supplement or other approach that interrupts the

metabolic pathway of harm or compensates for it in some way.

I get the impression D'Adamo has done a lot of research - but where is

it? Most researchers publish in a medical journal or somewhere and then

it gets into the medical library - but there is no listing of D'Adamo in

there - not even one little paragraph.

Does he keep it a secret?

I'd like to read it.

Namaste,

IRene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

cherylhcmba wrote: contributing to indican and

> polyamine toxicity.

If milk does this in my case I'd be surprised, but I

see some good counter measures to these toxic indicators in LR4YT.

Per LR4YT, only 1 in three *new* patients have high indole (indican

level) and that's before the BTD is started, and he says it is usually

from grains. So a little milk doesn't sound serious as regards indican

level. Mainly he talks about wrong upper intestine gut bacteria due to

undigested protein. Maybe most folks can't digest milk but I seem to be

able to live on milk alone better than any food - though of course one

needs meat as well for iron etc.

The polyamine issue seems to be one of the gut stealing the

polyamines so the body gets too few and growth is stunted. However,

living on milk all my life seems not to have stunted me too much :-)

Again he talks more of grains than dairy here.

So far maybe I can handle a bit of skim milk with EV olive. I think it

is seriously necessary to look into this for all O's - at least that's

my opinion - for reasons of getting proper calcium. Maybe it's not

perfect, but I think dairy is necessary.

Namaste,

IRene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/1/2004 12:57:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

furryboots@... writes:

Joke to you maybe.

My survival is what I have at stake

Why don't you take calcium supplements for two weeks to a month and stop

using any form of dairy and then try it again? That's how I knew it was bad for

me. I used to drink a gallon of milk a week.

[Guest guest]

OK, Irene, all I can hear is the fact that you want to have milk.

" However,

living on milk all my life seems not to have stunted me too much :-) "

You tell us, you have all kinds of health issues and you don't seem to correlate

those with dairy consumption ?

Like Max said: You just wanna have milk, LOL.

[Guest guest]

Belinda wrote:

> If you aren't eating things that leech the calcium from your

> bones, you don't NEED as much calcium.

Not sure why you say that?

I don't eat things that leach calcium, the only thing that leaches

calcium from bones is a lack of calcium intake from food.

But it is not true that my calcium need is less than the minimum

requirement for adults with fully grown bones as that is what I am. So I

need 1000 mg a day (or more for my size.)

The calcium requirement in adults is not as high as for kids who need to

build bones, because it is for the myriad other functions of calcium

that adults need. It's not a matter of just " keeping what's in the

bones " . But anyway - keeping it in the bones requires the minimum daily

amount of 1000mg in the diet :-)

Those stories about carbonated drinks leaching calcium are not true.

Research shows this conclusively. The damage done is the displacement of

milk. In other words if you fill up on pop, there is no space for the

milk that contains the calcium needed.

Caffeine initially increases calcium excretion in the morning- but the

metabolism adjusts and it is compensated for later in the day.

Calcium is used up in dozens of functions not just bones, and is

excreted in ratio with other minerals such as phosphorus and magnesium.

We only take it from bones when we fail to eat the minimum requirement.

Those other requirements for calcium other than for bones - do not go

away. The minimum calcium requirements I mentioned of 1000 mg a day are

for fully grown adults. (The requirement is higher for kids who have

bones to grow.)

> That's your alternative

> right there.

Sorry no it's not :-)

If I was leaching it I would need *more* than the minimum.

I am still looking for a way to get the minimum.

Why are folks on this list so keen to believe they don't need calcium;

it is really hiding from the truth in a most risky fashion.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

welllll .... I must help Irene a little bit :

me too I always read in different books, that milk is the best absorbable

calcium-deliverer

I don't know if that's true, but Irene asks for good alternative things - so

where are they ? ...

she sounds like : " if I can do without milk but with good calcium I'd be

glad "

love

Re: Re: need milk for calcium?

> OK, Irene, all I can hear is the fact that you want to have milk.

>

> " However,

> living on milk all my life seems not to have stunted me too much :-) "

>

> You tell us, you have all kinds of health issues and you don't seem to

correlate those with dairy consumption ?

>

> Like Max said: You just wanna have milk, LOL.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Irene,

Milk is supposed to contribute to polyamine toxicity because of it's

high content of polyamines. Serum alubumin is an indicator of

polyamine toxicity. If your values are below 4 g/dL then you might

worry less about replacing the skim milk. Of course there are other

things to work on the polyamine toxicity besides giving up your milk

as well. I can understand your reluctance to give up something that

is working for you. I like to have concrete measures, the serum

albumin is one way to monitor how the diet is working for you.

Cheryl

> > I had written in a post you must have missed, wondering if having

a

> > healthy oil with skim milk would bring it up to the same level as

> > whole milk. That sounds reasonable to me.

>

> I did see that post, but did not comment as I had already mentioned

I

> take a teaspoon of olive oil five times a day with each meal/snack.

>

> It seems there are more issues with milk than digestibility. What

> concerns me is to know about any aspect that would be bad for my

health.

> I'm not worried about details like digestibility, it's a non-issue

in my

> case, and I'm not worried about weight gain issues as that also is

minor

> and controllable, nor about supposed gut irritation as I have none

of that.

> What would concern me is some kind of reaction that messed up my

> immune system or some other hidden aspect. I'd then want to know

how and

> why at a chemical detail level so I can figure out whether I can

counter

> it with a suitable supplement or other approach that interrupts the

> metabolic pathway of harm or compensates for it in some way.

>

> I get the impression D'Adamo has done a lot of research - but where

is

> it? Most researchers publish in a medical journal or somewhere and

then

> it gets into the medical library - but there is no listing of

D'Adamo in

> there - not even one little paragraph.

> Does he keep it a secret?

> I'd like to read it.

>

> Namaste,

> IRene

> --

> Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

> P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

> http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

> Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

Wow! I didn't know that. I have had my serum Albumin tested at each

physical, but I didn't know what it meant. It will be interesting to see

how it changes with my improved compliance.

Re: need milk for calcium?

Hi Irene,

Milk is supposed to contribute to polyamine toxicity because of it's

high content of polyamines. Serum alubumin is an indicator of

polyamine toxicity. If your values are below 4 g/dL then you might

worry less about replacing the skim milk. Of course there are other

things to work on the polyamine toxicity besides giving up your milk

as well. I can understand your reluctance to give up something that

is working for you. I like to have concrete measures, the serum

albumin is one way to monitor how the diet is working for you.

Cheryl

> > I had written in a post you must have missed, wondering if having

a

> > healthy oil with skim milk would bring it up to the same level as

> > whole milk. That sounds reasonable to me.

>

> I did see that post, but did not comment as I had already mentioned

I

> take a teaspoon of olive oil five times a day with each meal/snack.

>

> It seems there are more issues with milk than digestibility. What

> concerns me is to know about any aspect that would be bad for my

health.

> I'm not worried about details like digestibility, it's a non-issue

in my

> case, and I'm not worried about weight gain issues as that also is

minor

> and controllable, nor about supposed gut irritation as I have none

of that.

> What would concern me is some kind of reaction that messed up my

> immune system or some other hidden aspect. I'd then want to know

how and

> why at a chemical detail level so I can figure out whether I can

counter

> it with a suitable supplement or other approach that interrupts the

> metabolic pathway of harm or compensates for it in some way.

>

> I get the impression D'Adamo has done a lot of research - but where

is

> it? Most researchers publish in a medical journal or somewhere and

then

> it gets into the medical library - but there is no listing of

D'Adamo in

> there - not even one little paragraph.

> Does he keep it a secret?

> I'd like to read it.

>

> Namaste,

> IRene

> --

> Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

> P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

> http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

> Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

E. Andersen wrote:

> OK, Irene, all I can hear is the fact that you want to have milk.

No - Only that I want to have proper calcium and don't know another

option. also that milk has helped me avoid BArretts syndrome.

> " However,

> living on milk all my life seems not to have stunted me too much :-) "

>

> You tell us, you have all kinds of health issues and you don't seem

> to correlate those with dairy consumption ?

No I don't correlate with dairy, but I am asking about dairy to know if

I should be seeing a correlation.

The evidence is against it.

I have an inherited kidney defect, and that is the start of many issues,

and severely limits what options I have in many areas. That's nothing to

do with blood type.

Nor is the cushing's syndrome I have. That started only in 1998 after I

was locked in a basement for several months and fed only a instant cup

of soup a day. That would mess up anyone's health and it sure messed up

mine.

The allergies I had started about 1970 when I was working on allergy

research with sensitizer chemicals and lasted till 1984 when I got rid

of them with Touch For Health methods and tossed out all the drugs I had

been taking for asthma. Never needed them again.

My own research proved that my susceptibility to allergies was due to

excessive vaccinations my mother had me get as a baby and young child.

Especially multiple whooping cough ones.

So my ill health had a lot of reasons beside possibly also being

affected by blood type and what I ate.

Since trying the BTD I can see that grains are not helpful to me and

aggravate edema.

I've had 2 weeks with no dairy - and then I reintroduced it - and saw no

difference other than healing of my badly burned oesophagus that was

burned for lack of its accustomed milk protection.

I have a very complex health situation - not a simple one. And I am

looking for the best way to survive with the best health I can arrange

in my circumstances.

I have already outlived predictions for doctors several times - and it

has been by careful investigation each time and not taking anything at

face value or at the word of a doctor or specialist. I do my own

investigating to try to find what's best for me. And that's all I am

trying to do here.

It's not as you imply, some kind of stubborn streak to like milk. I do

not especially like it. (Though I like frozen yogurt.) I like what it

does for me and has done for me in the past and I would be remiss to

overlook that and fail to se the benefit I already experienced.

But if I found something better I'd drop it as cold turkey as I quit

smoking and I quit coffee - the instant I figured it was a health

disadvantage. My health comes first. It always did. I ran away from home

as a kid to ensure that, and hid in the library to read what I needed to

know. It saved my life then, and so knowing the details has paid off for

me. I do not always need what people say I need - I need to figure it

out for myself.

> Like Max said: You just wanna have milk, LOL.

Joke to you maybe.

My survival is what I have at stake and with the odds set against me in

areas I have no real control over - kidney defect, and cushing's

syndrome, both being killers - and I do have to decide what I must do

bearing in mind those things and their consequences are in the picture

for me - it's not a nice clear picture like most folks may have.

I don't get to just do the BTD and be done with it.

Cushings syndrome causes broken backs from osteoporosis as the

commonest break from just a jar - Coughing too hard can break a rib.

Cortisol destroys tissue everywhere - bone is no exception. So calcium

for me is not a matter of the MDR as it might be for others. Choosing a

diet that leaves out practically all calcium is not an option in my

case, even though I take Ca supplements. I have to eat a very high

nutrient diet to replace what cushings damages on a daily basis. Calcium

is part of that and milk looks to be my only *viable* option.

I need to stay viable is all :-))

And I am surprised so many list members do not take calcium seriously.

That's technically not my problem, but it's a great group of folks and

it seems a shame to just say nothing when I know what the symptoms feel

like and I know that the amount needed for a normal person is nowhere

near the O type diet possibility. D'ADamo admits it himself - but list

folks here are not admitting it. They want to find out the hard way?

And laugh at my taking it seriously.

The last laugh will come.....

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

Opernschule BGZ, Y.Zollikofer wrote:

> welllll .... I must help Irene a little bit :

>

> me too I always read in different books, that milk is the best absorbable

> calcium-deliverer

>

> I don't know if that's true, but Irene asks for good alternative things - so

> where are they ? ...

> she sounds like : " if I can do without milk but with good calcium I'd be

> glad "

Exactly - Thanks, :-))

....IRene

[Guest guest]

cherylhcmba wrote:

> Hi Irene,

> Milk is supposed to contribute to polyamine toxicity because of it's

> high content of polyamines. Serum alubumin is an indicator of

> polyamine toxicity. If your values are below 4 g/dL then you might

> worry less about replacing the skim milk.

Good point.

My last measure was 3.7, but that was early last year after the winter

and I was practically living on milk then, mostly for financial reasons

- I could get it subsidized and was too ill to earn anything else to eat

to replace the muscle breakdown from cushings. The latest test values

should be back from the doc soon. I'm a good deal healthier than I was

then, and able to eat somewhat better, but my cortisol is higher, so it

will be interesting.

> Of course there are other

> things to work on the polyamine toxicity besides giving up your milk

> as well.

LR4YT has a nice list on p106 and I do most of it already.

> I can understand your reluctance to give up something that

> is working for you. I like to have concrete measures, the serum

> albumin is one way to monitor how the diet is working for you.

I hope it is included in my recent tests - they took ten tubes of

" juice " ; you'd think that would do it!!! But I won't know for sure till

I see the results.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

Irene, nobody is laughing at your healthproblems.

The BTD advocates to be close to 100 % compliant in order to help along with the

issues.

Many of us are taking Dr. D's Phytocal for calciumsupps, sure helps me with my

legcramps and I assume is good for my bones besides. I mean, what have you got

to loose to just try it for a while. Am wondering if the calcium tabs taken at

the same time would buffer your potassium intake ?

[Guest guest]

Hi Irene-

I do admire you for trying to avoid milk, to see what happens. And also for

not dismissing the whole diet because that part didn't work at this time.

Your intelligent approach to your health is very evident. I'm curious

though...locked in a basement and fed only an instant cup of soup a day?

Literally? I admire you for surviving, don't think I would have.

If you do decide to cut out milk again, you may want to try goat's milk

instead of cow's milk. I know they're both avoids for Os, but goat is

better for most Os...of course Cheryl mentioned genetic linkage and rare

cases where crossovers can happen, which could give rare individuals

differences in some aspects of diet. Or it could be that your state of

health requires more gradual changes in that regard.

Are you concerned others on the list aren't taking enough calcium

supplements, or that those supplements aren't properly absorbed?

-

Re: Re: need milk for calcium?

E. Andersen wrote:

> OK, Irene, all I can hear is the fact that you want to have milk.

No - Only that I want to have proper calcium and don't know another

option. also that milk has helped me avoid BArretts syndrome.

> " However,

> living on milk all my life seems not to have stunted me too much :-) "

>

> You tell us, you have all kinds of health issues and you don't seem

> to correlate those with dairy consumption ?

No I don't correlate with dairy, but I am asking about dairy to know if

I should be seeing a correlation.

The evidence is against it.

I have an inherited kidney defect, and that is the start of many issues,

and severely limits what options I have in many areas. That's nothing to

do with blood type.

Nor is the cushing's syndrome I have. That started only in 1998 after I

was locked in a basement for several months and fed only a instant cup

of soup a day. That would mess up anyone's health and it sure messed up

mine.

The allergies I had started about 1970 when I was working on allergy

research with sensitizer chemicals and lasted till 1984 when I got rid

of them with Touch For Health methods and tossed out all the drugs I had

been taking for asthma. Never needed them again.

My own research proved that my susceptibility to allergies was due to

excessive vaccinations my mother had me get as a baby and young child.

Especially multiple whooping cough ones.

So my ill health had a lot of reasons beside possibly also being

affected by blood type and what I ate.

Since trying the BTD I can see that grains are not helpful to me and

aggravate edema.

I've had 2 weeks with no dairy - and then I reintroduced it - and saw no

difference other than healing of my badly burned oesophagus that was

burned for lack of its accustomed milk protection.

I have a very complex health situation - not a simple one. And I am

looking for the best way to survive with the best health I can arrange

in my circumstances.

I have already outlived predictions for doctors several times - and it

has been by careful investigation each time and not taking anything at

face value or at the word of a doctor or specialist. I do my own

investigating to try to find what's best for me. And that's all I am

trying to do here.

It's not as you imply, some kind of stubborn streak to like milk. I do

not especially like it. (Though I like frozen yogurt.) I like what it

does for me and has done for me in the past and I would be remiss to

overlook that and fail to se the benefit I already experienced.

But if I found something better I'd drop it as cold turkey as I quit

smoking and I quit coffee - the instant I figured it was a health

disadvantage. My health comes first. It always did. I ran away from home

as a kid to ensure that, and hid in the library to read what I needed to

know. It saved my life then, and so knowing the details has paid off for

me. I do not always need what people say I need - I need to figure it

out for myself.

> Like Max said: You just wanna have milk, LOL.

Joke to you maybe.

My survival is what I have at stake and with the odds set against me in

areas I have no real control over - kidney defect, and cushing's

syndrome, both being killers - and I do have to decide what I must do

bearing in mind those things and their consequences are in the picture

for me - it's not a nice clear picture like most folks may have.

I don't get to just do the BTD and be done with it.

Cushings syndrome causes broken backs from osteoporosis as the

commonest break from just a jar - Coughing too hard can break a rib.

Cortisol destroys tissue everywhere - bone is no exception. So calcium

for me is not a matter of the MDR as it might be for others. Choosing a

diet that leaves out practically all calcium is not an option in my

case, even though I take Ca supplements. I have to eat a very high

nutrient diet to replace what cushings damages on a daily basis. Calcium

is part of that and milk looks to be my only *viable* option.

I need to stay viable is all :-))

And I am surprised so many list members do not take calcium seriously.

That's technically not my problem, but it's a great group of folks and

it seems a shame to just say nothing when I know what the symptoms feel

like and I know that the amount needed for a normal person is nowhere

near the O type diet possibility. D'ADamo admits it himself - but list

folks here are not admitting it. They want to find out the hard way?

And laugh at my taking it seriously.

The last laugh will come.....

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/1/2004 7:51:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

furryboots@... writes:

Are you non-secretor too? Rh factor? (I'm negative for A, B, Rh and

secretor. I got none of them antigen things!)

I wonder why it feels good to me and bad to you. There has to be a

scientific reason somewhere right?

I'm an O positive non-secreter. Before the diet, I was a meat and potatoes

guy. Bread and butter, ice cream, milk, corn, lots of coffee, booze, you name

it. I suffered a serious illness that eventually lead me to this diet. I

went cold turkey for 30 days and was shocked to find out how badly my body

reacted to potatoes, bread, etc. when I experimented after my 30 day test. Talk

about sick!! However, if I consistently ate something (like cake etc over the

holidays), I stopped feeling so bad but knew I was damaging my body. My belief

is that the human body will adjust to anything and that if I were to start

eating bread, potatoes, milk etc. consistently, my body would adjust to it and

I'd feel less miserable but I would have a weak immune system and get fat and

sick. The younger we are the better we can handle poor eating habits. Now that

I'm older, I get sick a lot sooner if I stray from the diet. I also believe

that the diet is very cleansing and will slowly heal our bodies the longer we

stay on it.

Dairy, in small amounts, effects me the least of all of the avoids. When a

recipe calls for milk, I use whipping cream because it is full of fat and very

close to butter. Milk or skim milk gives me indigestion and cramps.

[Guest guest]

Maddviking@... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/1/2004 12:57:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> furryboots@... writes:

> Joke to you maybe.

> My survival is what I have at stake

>

> Why don't you take calcium supplements for two weeks to a month and stop

> using any form of dairy and then try it again?

Thanks for the idea. I already did that - I did 2 weeks of 100% BTD

compliance. I developed severe burned oesophagus and throat from acid

running up my oesophagus during sleep, got infected with pneumonia due

to the compromised throat, and as I have no resistance with cushing's

syndrome blocking my immune system, and no ability to take antibiotics

due to the kidney defect, I am stuck with pneumonia for a long time and

it is dangerous for me.

Milk for me is protective to my intestinal tract lining. Dunno why

but it is. I felt bad without it for those 2 weeks, and felt forced to

return to using it, and I feel much better now with milk added back -

and the rest of the BTD as it is supposed to be.

I went through my medical records after the post last night

suggesting albumen level is relevant, and even when I was mainly using

milk as my protein source that was 3.7 - below 4 being good on

polyamines per the BTD approach. So far I have no evidence that milk is

bad for me. I sure feel much better using it after being without.

I actually feel like I may get over the pneumonia faster than ever

before without the grain and stuff - I am O-compliant in every other way

and that does help me a lot.

I hope this doesn't sound too gross - but this is the first pneumonia

I've had since cushings where I can readily expectorate instead of the

junk accumulating and making me worse. I feel like I shall get over this

before the winter - at least I hope so. I am not deteriorating as badly

as usual, and I attribute that to the BTD with " skim-milk with EVOlive "

as the exception.

So basically the test has shown I feel better with milk than without

it. Dunno why that works.

It's so crystal clear how well BTD works for me for everything else that

I have to wonder if there is a subtype that can use milk as beneficial.

> That's how I knew it was bad for

> me. I used to drink a gallon of milk a week.

Are you non-secretor too? Rh factor? (I'm negative for A, B, Rh and

secretor. I got none of them antigen things!)

I wonder why it feels good to me and bad to you. There has to be a

scientific reason somewhere right?

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

Maddviking@... wrote:

> I'm an O positive non-secreter. Before the diet, I was a meat and potatoes

> guy. Bread and butter, ice cream, milk, corn, lots of coffee, booze, you name

> it.

Wow. I get the idea. That's a lot of no-nos to start with.

I did not have all those, as I got here in steps.

My energy had gone west, and weight gain was 4 pounds a week and had

shot me in six months from 195 (correct for me) to 300 lbs.

Doctors I went to said I was fat and lazy and needed to get off my duff

and exercise. Hurt like hell but I did, determined to get well somehow -

I got congestive heart failure and ended up collapsed in my yard, and

dragged to hospital by a neighbour. My cholesterol and triglycerides and

blood sugar all through the roof I looked for more diet help and

eventually found Perricone's anti-inflammatory diet. That helps

enormously and I still use its principles, but despite feeling less sick

(at one point I was vomiting for 4 hours a day) I still did not know I

had cushings, so I was eating " normal foods " .

Then I got the diagnosis by accident late 2001 and started looking for

answers to cushing's syndrome - and when I found that it turns muscles

to sugar especially if one eats starch and sugar I cut out starch and

sugar and increased protein to fight back. So I had no bread except

Ezekiel, no potato, rice or pasta type stuff, just rice bran and I was

using powdered milk all day to pack in protein to rebuild the muscles

that were being " eaten alive " . Over 2 years I managed to lose 14 lbs,

eating very little and always ravenous and feeling malnourished.

My next step was Dr Phil's weight loss solution. That helped me lose

another 30 lbs but I regained 20 which I can not explain by eating

habits, and nothing I did seemed to help. So I struggled not to gain

more, also lost none, for about 6 or 7 months.

THEN I came here to BTD. I lost 10 lbs of edema first 2 weeks, then

added back skimmed milk and lost another 4 lbs the 3rd week. Fourth week

I dropped the milk again trying to be more compliant, lost a lot of

sleep trying to sleep upright top avoid BArrett's issues - and regained

the 4 pounds. That's where I am now. Between a rock and a hard place,

and not sure whether the milk prevents weight loss or helps it. :-))

Seemed to help. I feel better when I am using it. I am still 70 lbs

overweight and it's not good.

> I suffered a serious illness that eventually lead me to this diet. I

> went cold turkey for 30 days and was shocked to find out how badly my body

> reacted to potatoes, bread, etc. when I experimented after my 30 day test.

Talk

> about sick!!

Nasty!

A 30 day test is a better time than I used. I did 2 weeks and then added

skim only. But I had consequences from the lack of skim - I could not

have done 30 days.

However, if I consistently ate something (like cake etc over the

> holidays), I stopped feeling so bad but knew I was damaging my body. My

belief

> is that the human body will adjust to anything and that if I were to start

> eating bread, potatoes, milk etc. consistently, my body would adjust to it and

> I'd feel less miserable but I would have a weak immune system and get fat and

> sick.

That's exactly why I am so keen to understand the molecular level issues

relate to milk and Type O. I do not want consequences to milk that are

not easy to see as being directly related.

> The younger we are the better we can handle poor eating habits. Now that

> I'm older, I get sick a lot sooner if I stray from the diet. I also believe

> that the diet is very cleansing and will slowly heal our bodies the longer we

> stay on it.

I sure hope that my mostly-compliant approach currently will be enough-

but with all the illnesses I already have I can't afford to mess about

with anything not as optimum as I can make it - and if there is

something really important regarding milk then I want to know it :-)

> Dairy, in small amounts, effects me the least of all of the avoids.

That's interesting - I wonder if that is the case for others too.

> When a

> recipe calls for milk, I use whipping cream because it is full of fat and very

> close to butter.

I am different with butter - I can not tolerate much fat at all. I

stopped eating butter a few decades ago. I probably had many years of

not eating enough fat at all. I seem to manage the olive oil okay - but

dairy fat I do avoid instinctively (not sure if it is for valid reasons)

and I get along well with skim milk and nonfat cream cheese and nonfat

frozen yogurt etc. I do like a few shavings of extra sharp extra aged

white cheddar though - such as grated onto a heap of steamed spinach.

> Milk or skim milk gives me indigestion and cramps.

Oh that's no fun. I have no such response thankfully.

So how long have you used the BTD and is it making constant improvement

for you?

I am not getting a consistent response. The first 2 weeks on it I felt

good - NOT hungry. Now I am constantly hungry this week - and I am not

using dairy this week as a 2nd try without it.

The odd thing is that the first 2 days of the 2 weeks BTD I was pigging

out on German sausage. I thought it was beef - it's pork, an avoid. How

weird is that.

So that's partly why I decided I need to do 2 weeks compliant again- as

the first two had about 4 to 7 pork sausages the first couple days.

Tasted great though :-) But I am VERY hungry doing it - and I get the

feeling it should not be that way. It was not like that the first

go-round. I'm also ill which is not helpful. So many factors in the mix..

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

> Sorry no it's not :-)

> If I was leaching it I would need *more* than the minimum.

> I am still looking for a way to get the minimum.

> Why are folks on this list so keen to believe they don't need

calcium;

> it is really hiding from the truth in a most risky fashion.

>

> Namaste,

> Irene

We aren't saying we don't need calcium. We are saying that we

can get it from the foods we eat that are compliant. We don't

need to get it from milk.

[Guest guest]

> Belinda wrote:

> > It's not assumption about the sodapop. At least regular

soda.

> > There is plenty of research that shows that corn strips

calcium

> > from the bones.

>

> Dear Belinda,

> I took you seriously, and searched.

> Where please is this " plenty research " ?

> I can not find any on an extensive search of the NAtional

Medical

> Library research articles.

It's in Dr D'Adamo's books. He includes footnotes.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/2/2004 3:46:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

furryboots@... writes:

So how long have you used the BTD and is it making constant improvement

for you?

I've been on the diet since 1998. Back then we called it the ER4YT diet.

BTD is easier. I had read Dr D's father's book who had the right idea but he

hadn't linked it to blood type. You had to test foods trial and error by eating

them and/or get blood tests all the time. It was too hard but I liked the

idea. In 1998 I went into congestive heart failure from an enlarged heart I

didn't know I had. When they sent me home I had a handful of meds and patches

and the AMA diet. A death sentence.

Say what you want but in desperation I prayed for guidance and the next day a

friend I hadn't talked to in a year called me. She was on this new diet and

in the course of our conversation she told me about it. It made so much

sense!! I immediately started the BTD and have been on it ever since.

Eventually,

she fell off of the diet and never went back. Sad.

Considering that I have a chronic disease, I have steadily improved and feel

more cleansed than I used to. I can " listen " to my body more and any avoid

(grain, dairy, nightshade veg) I eat will make me obviously sick so I know it is

an avoid. It's easier for me to ferret out avoids by using my senses than it

used to be. That's why I don't eat many foods that have artifical or natural

flavors. What are those smells/tastes hiding? Take that makeup off and show

what you really look like.--LOL.

I don't know if you're taking meds for your heart but they can swell you up

like a tick or keep you from losing weight. I think that protein, green leafy

vegetables, and exercise will help you to lose weight or at least feel better.

If you can't take diuretics, eat foods that act as diuretics like celery,

watermelon, etc. Another thing to remember is that 90% compliant is pretty good

so if you feel you need milk you can still do the diet and feel it's affects.

Also, you may be able to slowly wean off of it. Hope this helps.

Max

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/2/2004 3:46:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

furryboots@... writes:

But I am VERY hungry doing it - and I get the

feeling it should not be that way.

E-A-T M-O-R-E R-E-D M-E-A-T. More protein will fill you up. Don't worry

about portions. Eat your fill.

[Guest guest]

Belinda wrote:

> We aren't saying we don't need calcium. We are saying that we

> can get it from the foods we eat that are compliant. We don't

> need to get it from milk.

We already know that is not true though: I wrote a post to show how

little is available from the compliant foods with the most calcium and

D'Adamo himself says you can NOT get enough calcium from an O-compliant

diet. That was the starting point in the conversation - it has now come

full circle :-) And still there is no way to get needed calcium from an

O diet to meet the *necessary* daily requirement of 1000 mg :-))

If you have a way to get 1000 mg of calcium in one day from an O

compliant diet please tell us. The discussion so far has not managed to

come close. I wish it could, I can not find those foods you say do the job.

Instead some have tried to argue that 1000 mg is not the daily needed

minimum - but there's a dozen research studies and D'Adamo to say is IS

needed :-)) So that also is not valid as a solution to the problem of

getting the calcium.

So now what?

Are we supposed to believe that it is " normal " to need massive

supplements in a diet that is supposedly healthy?

This sure bothers me. I can not believe a healthy diet is complete

without milk or something else with equal calcium.

Hee hee - we are back where we started :-)) In denial.

We literally have nothing else with equal calcium to milk in the O diet

- not even close :-)

That is the fact. The problem seems to be failure to recognize that.

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

Belinda wrote:

>

>>>There is plenty of research that shows that corn strips

>>

> calcium

> It's in Dr D'Adamo's books. He includes footnotes.

Dear Belinda, Please can you name a book and chapter or page - I went

through LR4YT cover to cover including all the refs without finding

anything.

When I looked in the medical library there are plenty of references that

refute this claim - at least 6, and they refer to old studies which made

incorrect conclusions in that they did not supply calcium in the diet -

but just replaced milk with corn - which is of course no test.

Many studies D'Adamo uses are very old. for example mid-80s is typical

for refs in LR4YT, and they go back to 1971 and before. That does not

automatically make them invalid but research techniques have become

tighter to control false conclusions since 20 years ago :-) And all that

is recent has shown no validity to claims of corn having an adverse

effect on bone - OTHER THAN replacing milk so that too little calcium is

consumed in the first place. Also - they did not know then that calcium

is recycled and bone has to be replaced, it's not static, so they

supplied too little calcium in the diet for that - it was not the corn

stripping the calcium but the body's natural activity to replenish bone.

Happy to read an old study if there is one and assess the research and

conclusion for the " corn stripping calcium off bones " for myself. Just

can't find one :-)

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

I am sure hunter/gatherers had and have enough calcium in their diets. But

they probably eat the bones with the meat.

Original Message:

-----------------

From: Irene de Villiers furryboots@...

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 12:31:04 -0700

Subject: Re: need milk for calcium?

<html><body>

<tt>

Belinda wrote:<BR>

> We aren't saying we don't need calcium.  We are saying that we<BR>

> can get it from the foods we eat that are compliant.  We don't<BR>

> need to get it from milk.<BR>

<BR>

We already know that is not true though: I wrote a post to show how <BR>

little is available from the compliant foods with the most calcium and <BR>

D'Adamo himself says you can NOT get enough calcium from an O-compliant <BR>

diet. That was the starting point in the conversation - it has now come <BR>

full circle :-) And still there is no way to get needed calcium from an <BR>

O diet to meet the *necessary* daily requirement of 1000 mg :-))<BR>

<BR>

If you have a way to get 1000 mg of calcium in one day from an O <BR>

compliant diet please tell us. The discussion so far has not managed to <BR>

come close. I wish it could, I can not find those foods you say do the

job.<BR>

Instead some have tried to argue that 1000 mg is not the daily needed <BR>

minimum - but there's a dozen research studies and D'Adamo to say is IS <BR>

needed :-)) So that also is not valid as a solution to the problem of <BR>

getting the calcium.<BR>

<BR>

So now what?<BR>

Are we supposed to believe that it is " normal " to need massive <BR>

supplements in a diet that is supposedly healthy?<BR>

This sure bothers me. I can not believe a healthy diet is complete <BR>

without milk or something else with equal calcium.<BR>

<BR>

Hee hee - we are back where we started :-)) In denial.<BR>

<BR>

We literally have nothing else with equal calcium to milk in the O diet <BR>

- not even close :-)<BR>

That is the fact. The problem seems to be failure to recognize that.<BR>

<BR>

Namaste,<BR>

     Irene<BR>

-- <BR>

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.<BR>

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.<BR>

<a

href= " http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html " >http://www.ange

lfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html</a><BR>

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.<BR>

<BR>

</tt>

<br><br>

<tt>