HELP!

[Guest guest]

Anyone worried about osteopenia/osteoporosis should request a

calcium blood test.

They can tell whether you need a bone scan by your blood calcium.

I was hyocalcemic and osteopenic with total calcium 2.23 down from

2.40 and corrected calcium level of 2.13, down from 2.23 (reference

range 2.10 - 2.55).

Just shows what damage a reduction of 50mcg thyroxine can do as not

only did I have the hypo symptoms but also the added hypocalcemic

symptoms which are very unpleasant.

Chris

> >

> > - there are no studies to show that having a suppressed TSH

> > when taking thyroid hormone replacement is a cause of

osteoporosis.

>

>

>

> [Edit Abbrev Mod]

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , i am still having problems, mostly the adrenals which are closely connected to the thyroid. but don`t get treatment from a doctor at present. I am treating myself.

but in the past way back in 1968 when I was 21 years old I married and got pregnant

2 months after which I thought was lucky, umm. not so lucky after all. had a miscarrage,

then another one and a third one,. I then waited a year and had a little boy . six years after

this had another boy both prem and small for time. they are aged 36 and 30. both have autistic problems. this is due to the auto-antibodies. as my tests are in the reference

range my GP will not treat me, so I saw DR P in 1990. and it was he how diagnosed me

hypothyroidism, but not hash`s, this group is great for support and I realised in 2006 that

it may be hash`s ,so got the test done privately and the rest is history as they say.lol.

hope things go well for you. regards angel.

[Guest guest]

Hi

You have had a dreadful time, but with the help of this site and Dr P,

we DO get better. And yes, you are right the treatment (or rather

mistreatment) of thyroid patients is shocking. Most GPs just don't

have a clue.

You are in the right place now!

Good luck Pen x

[Guest guest]

Thanks Pennny, I am going to call Dr P tomorrow, hopefully to get an

appointment, obviously don't know how booked up he gets though..?

x

>

> Hi

> You have had a dreadful time, but with the help of this site and Dr P,

> we DO get better. And yes, you are right the treatment (or rather

> mistreatment) of thyroid patients is shocking. Most GPs just don't

> have a clue.

> You are in the right place now!

> Good luck Pen x

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

I have had a bone scan and everything was fine, still the doctors were

worried about my suppressed tsh levels. Also I didn't feel well on 150

mcgs and felt I needed more rather than less thyroxine. They reassured

me that this was normal and convinced me to try less. I actually have

felt better on a lower dose of thyroxine 100mcgs, the problems have

come in a different disguise - two miscarriages. So now I don't know

what my body needs...are there any endorcinologists that you could

recommend? - I can travel from here..(Hay on Wye)

Thanks emily

>

> - there are no studies to show that having a suppressed TSH when

> taking thyroid hormone replacement is a cause of osteoporosis. Many

women

> who are menopausal can start to show signs of this disease. These

doctors

> should do a little more research and should be asked to cite

references to

> such cases. Your GP, if worried, should send you to have a bone scan

done.

>

>

>

> luv - Sheila

>

>

>

> Hi Angel,

> Thanks for that, isn't it interesting that the doctors were so

concerened

> about my supressed tsh, so much so that they just kept on at me to

lower my

> dose, otherwise I would get osteoporsis, they were quite worried

about my

> bone density, so we lowered the dose and then what ? I have two

> miscarriages, presumably both are due to the antibodies...? I have

learnt

> lots and realise that I have probably been a bit passive and just

listened a

> lot to the professionals, thanks for the info though, yes what did we do

> before the internet...? Are you well now? Do you take natural thyroid

> extract?

> _,_._,___

>

[Guest guest]

Sheila,

You wrote:

>

> - there are no studies to show that having a suppressed TSH when

> taking thyroid hormone replacement is a cause of osteoporosis....

Actually, there are, but suppression studies have been consistently

based on suppression of TSH by T4 only medication. The most recent one

showed that if TSH is held below 0.1 for three consecutive months, there

is measurable bone loss and changes in cardiac muscle. That is the study

that led to the recommendation to drop the lower end of the TSH

reference range to 0.3 .

Chuck

[Guest guest]

OK that explains things as mine was below 0.1 for a long time - years

even. Where do you find these studies? On the internet?

Thanks

> >

> > - there are no studies to show that having a suppressed TSH

when

> > taking thyroid hormone replacement is a cause of osteoporosis....

>

> Actually, there are, but suppression studies have been consistently

> based on suppression of TSH by T4 only medication. The most recent one

> showed that if TSH is held below 0.1 for three consecutive months,

there

> is measurable bone loss and changes in cardiac muscle. That is the

study

> that led to the recommendation to drop the lower end of the TSH

> reference range to 0.3 .

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

,

You wrote:

>

>

> OK that explains things as mine was below 0.1 for a long time - years

> even. Where do you find these studies? On the internet?

This one was famous, because the lowered limit of the TSH reference

range hinged on it. At work, I can get at least an abstract on every

paper published through SciFinder, a library service from the American

Chemical Society. However, Google Scholar is almost as good, if you take

time to separate wheat from chaff.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Hi

I am sending you a list of doctors in case you still need to find one

in your area - or if you are prepared to travel. This will be sent by

seperate post.

Please will you remember to delete the messages you have already read

before clicking 'SEND' and just leave a portion of what you are

responding to. It makes it difficult if you don't do this for people

who have opted to receive a 'Daily Digest' (with up to 25 messages in

one email " or who read direct from the web site when they have to

scroll through these to get to the next message.

Luv - Sheila

______________________________________

I have noticed that Dr Peatfield runs a clinic in Malvern which is

close...Thanks for the advice on temp etc - I am thinking of keeping a

little record book of everything...I will get some up to date bloods

done and post them with some of my old results..

> Thanks again

> emily

>

[Guest guest]

Chuck -

will you post references to the studies you mention please.

luv -

Sheila

Sheila,

You wrote:

>

> - there are no studies to show that having a suppressed TSH when

> taking thyroid hormone replacement is a cause of osteoporosis....

Actually, there are, but suppression studies have been consistently

based on suppression of TSH by T4 only medication. The most recent one

showed that if TSH is held below 0.1 for three consecutive months, there

is measurable bone loss and changes in cardiac muscle. That is the study

that led to the recommendation to drop the lower end of the TSH

reference range to 0.3 .

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Hi Angel,

Thanks for your story, I didn't know about the connection between anti

bodies and autism, it seems there's lots I don't know!!

[Guest guest]

I have a friend at work who has taken thyroxine for years, she usually takes between 150mcg-200mcg a day, she has no thyroid it was removed. She started off hyper and then had the thyroid removed. Last year she actually broke a rib just by leaning over a seat on the school bus she was off for a long time while it healed. I am now wondering if all those years on Thyroxine has weakened her bones and thats why her rib broke so easily? Of course I doubt she knows nothing of armour and seems ok on thyroxine but it makes me wonder

Anyone worried about osteopenia/osteopor osis should request a calcium blood test. They can tell whether you need a bone scan by your blood calcium.I was hyocalcemic and osteopenic with total calcium 2.23 down from 2.40 and corrected calcium level of 2.13, down from 2.23 (reference range 2.10 - 2.55).Just shows what damage a reduction of 50mcg thyroxine can do as not only did I have the hypo symptoms but also the added hypocalcemic symptoms which are very unpleasant.Chris> >> > - there are no studies to show that having a suppressed TSH> > when taking thyroid hormone replacement is a cause of osteoporosis.> > > > [Edit Abbrev Mod]>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ruth

- I am so sorry to hear you are going through this as I remember how well you

were doing. I had assumed you had gone away because you were continuing to do

well and was just getting on with the business of living.

You

should ask to be tested for diabetes - some hypothyroids do develop diabetes.

However, would your GP refer you to an endocrinologist as I think that would be

best. Ask your GP to test your ferritin level, B12, Vitamin D, Zinc, Copper and

Magnesium. Can you talk with Dr Peatfield on the phone as you are a patient of

his and put him in the picture. I'm so sorry to offer such little information

about what might be your problem that could help you right now, but as you get

tested for various things, it should become clear about what road you need to

travel.

Luv -

Sheila

I

had been coping very well with the stress of it all but beginning to

wonder if i was kidding myself! My GP isn't that knowledgable about

adrenals and thyroid, basically went along with what Dr P advised,

so he might be clueless too when I see him monday. Anyone else

experienced this on HC? Thanks in advance for any replies, Ruth

[Guest guest]

Hi Ruth,

I'm sorry you're having a stressful time of it.

One needs to keep some reserve energy. 50 lengths twice a week may be

a bit too much, with the other stressors thrown into the equation.

Was that giving you a 'high' feeling ? High cortisol may cause

euphoria if it gets out of hand.

Running out of glycogen is a problem; that may have depleted some

tissues and you can't now 'fill up' on glycogen (stored form

of 'starch' in tissues).

CFS has some/maybe all of the symptoms of low mitochondrial function

( mitochondria ~ energy producing units in the cells ).

As suggested, look for insulin/diabetes problems or maybe

pituitary/adrenal function too. Diabetes insipidus can cause lots of

very dilute urine output. Of the two types of diabetes

(mellitus/insipidus) the former type implies sugar in the urine, the

latter type implies no 'taste' ie, insipid.

Glucagon and insulin (sugar storage and use ) act in opposite

directions ~ hence feeling hungry and thirsty is to be expected if

the signallng system has faltered, but why; as you say, HC ~ too much

or too little?

best wishes,

Bob

>

> Hi everyone, haven't been here for a while. I've been diagnosed

> with adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidsm by Dr P last June, I took

> NAE for a while, then added Nutri Thyroid, then started on Armour,

> didn't tolerate the Armour well at all so started on

> hydrocortisone.

[Guest guest]

Hi Ruth,

I am really sorry to hear about all those problems. It is horrid when at

first you do so well, and then all goes pearshaped.

To add to what Sheila and Bob have already said, I would suggest you

also check yourself for possible Candida albicans as the culprit (i.e.

do the early morning spit-test - it's in the files), since taking

cortisol can invite yeast overgrowth.

Please get in touch with Dr. P. He is the best person to advise and

make sense of what is happening to you.

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi Ruth, have you been tested for diabetes .? why i ask is it sounds like all your symptomsmay be linked to it. get tested asap . angel.

[Guest guest]

Hi Ruth,

Suggest you phone Dr. P- you maybe right about no longer

needing the pred, but best check with him first. Have you had blood

sugars checked- diabetes- just a thought.

Subject: HELP!

I have begun to feel very

weak and tired, am extremely thirsty and hungry, although trying

not to eat abnormal amounts. My weight loss has stalled also after

doing really well, have swelling on my legs, ankles and belly some

days, face looks puffy and have issues with blood sugar again,

craving carbs. I am weeing all the time, but not at night for some

reason, wee is clear like water. I also have weird bruises and

getting new stretch marks. Looking at side effects, I'm guessing it's

the HC, as in excess of it, , Ruth

------------------------------------

TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

practitioner before changing medication.

[Guest guest]

Hi Ruth Margaret here

Just read your email.I feel exactly like you are describing every bit of it.I was tested for diabetes but was NORMAL .I had to leave work and go to bed it is one of the most awful feelings.At the time I was on 125mcg of Eltroxin and they would not up it so I cut a 25mcg in half and added 12.5mcg daily.I did this as I was so ill my gp told me to SUCK A MINT I was furious.With the increase all my hypoglicemia went.That was November.I have started on Armour a month ago and all these feelings have come back off and on and I think that is because I am obviosly not on stable meds yet as have to uup slowly.I have never taken HC so I know it wasnt that.

Hope this helps

Margaret

From: Stenning <jennystenning@...>thyroid treatment Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 12:04:13 PMSubject: RE: HELP!Subject: HELP!I have begun to feel very weak and tired, am extremely thirsty and hungry, although trying not to eat abnormal amounts. ------------------------------------TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medicalpractitioner before changing medication.

[Guest guest]

Hello everyone, thank you for your replies. :-) I have been told I have a severe

water infection and tried one antibiotic, had an allergic reaction to it, would

be awkward! ha ha. Now on a different sort and have had no allergic reaction so

far so good! After a discussion with GP thinking that my symptoms partly may be

stressed out adrenals due to extra physical stress (not been right for weeks

and quite probably have had water infection for 4 weeks but like an idiot left

it till it got really bad coz took me a while to realise that it's not normal

to go to loo 20 times a day ha ha), have upped HC to 30mg from 20mg whilst I'm

ill. Having major issues with blood sugar I think, being so hungry and up and

down with eating very 'adrenally', dizziness on standing also. I think maybe I

am still a bit hypothyroid, hard to tell at the moment, but will need to speak

to Dr P about it, last blood tests last year showed a high normal T3 and low

normal T4 and supressed TSH (at 2 and a half grains i think) but temp still a

bit low 36.3 c from 35.4c (before treatment), nearly there?, pulse before rising

is 70 bpm. I am on three grains of Armour a day, my NHS GP thinks two ha ha, T3

is probably out of range now. It took me a while to get up to three grains

because of adrenals, I have been on three grains of Armour for about 8 weeks

now, I have noticed improvement of energy levels and for the most part

maintained the other improvements like being warmer, eyes brighter, aches and

pains mostly gone but my weight loss has completely stalled after losing nearly

4 stone in about 6 months, still got another 2 to lose to reach ideal weight,

weight hasn't changed since beginning of year despite doing more exercise and

eating really healthily. My face is still a bit puffy and I still get swollen

ankles and legs and I've noticed my tongue is still swollen and scalloped, would

of thought if I was on right dose would be normal by now? I still don't get up

in the morning and feel awake ha ha so I'm not normal yet. I suppose I should

speak to Dr P about it,I do wonder whether the T4/T3 ratio in the Armour is

right for me as T4 was low normal and T3 high normal, thought supposed to

both be high in range? I don't know, complicated business this is ha ha,

thanks all for replies :-) XX

>

> Hi Ruth Margaret here

> Just read your email.I feel exactly like you are describing every bit of it.I

was tested for diabetes but was NORMAL .I had to leave work and go to bed it is

one of the most awful feelings.At the time I was on 125mcg of Eltroxin and they

would not up it so I cut a 25mcg in half and added 12.5mcg daily.I did this as I

was so ill my gp told me to SUCK A MINT I was furious.With the increase all my

hypoglicemia went.That was November.I have started on Armour a month ago and all

these feelings have come back off and on and I think that is because I am

obviosly not on stable meds yet as have to uup slowly.I have never taken HC so I

know it wasnt that.

>

> Hope this helps

>  

> Margaret

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: Stenning <jennystenning@...>

> thyroid treatment

> Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 12:04:13 PM

> Subject: RE: HELP!

>

>

>

>

> Subject: HELP!

> I have begun to feel very

> weak and tired, am extremely thirsty and hungry, although  trying 

> not to eat abnormal amounts.

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

> practitioner before changing medication.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would

feel very tempted to add 25 mcgs to your Armour Ruth. There seems to be so much

going on but obviously, there is something happening that has not been

addressed. Your water infection will not be helping matters right now. Your

blood sugar might have something do with your cortisol, and those taking this

medication might be able to help you with this. Have you had your

ferritin tested recently, B12, Vitamin D, magnesium, zinc and copper? Could you

have Candida? Something stopping your thyroid hormone replacement from working

as it should. You MUST speak with Dr P, so don't delay this.

Luv -

Sheila

My face is still a bit puffy and I still get swollen

ankles and legs and I've noticed my tongue is still swollen and scalloped,

would of thought if I was on right dose would be normal by now? I still don't

get up in the morning and feel awake ha ha so I'm not normal yet. I suppose I

should speak to Dr P about it,I do wonder whether the T4/T3 ratio in the Armour

is right for me as T4 was low normal and T3 high normal, thought supposed to

both be high in range? I don't know, complicated business this is ha ha, thanks

all for replies :-) XX

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila, thank you for reply. Do you mean add 25 mcgs of T4 to the Armour? I

think maybe from previous blood tests and the urine test I have had done which

have both shown low normal T4 but before treatment very low out of range T3 that

may not be using the T3, may be pooling in my blood and not actually doing much,

would make sense but have no idea why, could be adrenals, could be something

else ha ha. I have not had vit D, magnesium or zinc tested, not sure about

copper, had ferritin tested a while ago which was low, then again after starting

ferrous sulphate and was much improved although not optimum, there was a big

improvement after starting the Armour, have been slacking a bit taking the

ferrous sulphate, will ask for another test to check how it is. I will try doing

the spit test for candida tomorrow, antibiotics would not help in that area so

taking high dosage of prebiotics and probiotics and eating live yogurt whilst

taking them. Best plan I think is to talk to Dr P like you said and then tell my

GP what he said ha ha, I'm lucky, he pretty much goes along with what Dr P says,

although nervous ha ha and we're careful what goes in my notes. Trying to manage

with GP and Dr P to sort things out as adding an endo would probably screw

everything up! You're right, water infection won't be helping, nor is all the

never ending crap going on around me at the moment ha ha but for the most part

have maintained quiet dignity and stayed positive,wouldn't of been able to if I

was still untreated so I'm very thankful for your input as you pointed me in the

right direction, thank you. I hope to play a more active part in your campaign

once I have my life sorted ha ha, one thing at a time :-) It would be great to

be in perfect health, amoungst other things, to prove to my GP that Armour does

work, and he was right to put his trust in me and Dr P and to question

'procedure', he finds me fascinating apparently ha ha, would love him to say he

is prescribing Armour for other people, one can only hope ha ha xxx Thanks again

xx

>

> I would feel very tempted to add 25 mcgs to your Armour Ruth. There seems to

> be so much going on but obviously, there is something happening that has not

> been addressed. Your water infection will not be helping matters right now.

> Your blood sugar might have something do with your cortisol, and those

> taking this medication might be able to help you with this. Have you had

> your ferritin tested recently, B12, Vitamin D, magnesium, zinc and copper?

> Could you have Candida? Something stopping your thyroid hormone replacement

> from working as it should. You MUST speak with Dr P, so don't delay this.

>

>

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

Problem

is Ruth, we can go on and on and on saying… " it could be thios...or

it could be that… " and not getting any better in the meantime. If

there is a suspicion, then get the appropriate test done so you know whether or

not it is this or that. We just cannot guess with this game.

If

the T3 was " pooling " you would be getting feelings of toxicity with

palpitations, feeling very 'spaced out' sweating, dizziness, trembling and general

shakiness etc. and yes, I did mean adding 25 mcgs T4 to see if that will help.

I couldn't exist with this tiny amount I added to my Armour. I would forget

about previous blood tests, what matters is what is going on now and finding

the reasons you are showing the results you are. Please get your Vitamin D

checked - this is SO important (Read the website information www.tpa-uk.org.uk and see the connection with

low vitamin D and the effect it has on the thyroid. You will find this under

Hypothyroidism and then Associated Conditions. Please also get your ferritin, zinc,

copper, magnesium, B12 checked at the same time. There has to be no guess work

here. You may find you still need to take ferrous sulphate - your ferritin

needs to be between 70 and 90 for you to feel good and for your thyroid hormone

to be able to work.

The

spit test is only an indication you might have Candida - it is not 100%

positive that should your spit spread out like an octopus with threads floating

towards the bottom of the glass means you have systemic candidiasis - but a

damned good bet. You need to get tested to see if you have Candida antibodies

if you feel this is a real possibility.

Let

us know what Dr P suggests.

Luv -

Sheila

Trying to manage with GP and Dr P to sort things out

as adding an endo would probably screw everything up! You're right, water

infection won't be helping, nor is all the never ending crap going on around me

at the moment ha ha but for the most part have maintained quiet dignity and

stayed positive,wouldn't of been able to if I was still untreated so I'm very

thankful for your input as you pointed me in the right direction, thank you. I

hope to play a more active part in your campaign once I have my life sorted ha

ha, one thing at a time :-) It would be great to be in perfect health, amoungst

other things, to prove to my GP that Armour does work, and he was right to put

his trust in me and Dr P and to question 'procedure', he finds me fascinating

apparently ha ha, would love him to say he is prescribing Armour for other

people, one can only hope ha ha xxx Thanks again xx

[Guest guest]

HI Lostgirl

" Lowish FT4 and highish FT3 are normal for Armour

I beg to differ with this remark. If FT4 is low with high FT3 when on 3 grains

Armour I would strongly suspect that LOW Cortisol is causind FT3 pooling.

I see you are on only 20mg HC I think that is too low a dose for anyone. On RTH

& Hormone Support Group we see Women needing MINIMUM of 25mg HC & Men 30mg HC.

Especially with the amount of exercise you were doing you would have been

burning through the HC too. Were you stress dosing before the exercise?

As regards to frequent copious weeling I strongly recommend you get Aldosterone,

Renin, Salt & Potassium tested. Do you have low BP fast HR at all? Does BP drop

or rise from sitting to standing? Systolic should consisitently rise at least 10

points.

See my post here on how to correctly test

thyroid treatment/message/35532

When was Potassuim & Sodium last tested & what were the results?

Do you do Sea Salt supping at all? Have you tried increasing it to see if it

reduces the peeing?

Suboptimal & unbalanced electrolytes causes cellular dehydration, affects every

body function & is a big stressor as well. Worth checking it out.

If you are having blood sugar regulation problems that can be related to HC

amount & dosing too. Not having ENOUGH will cause reactive Hypoglycemia &

Insulin Resistance. Eating frequent small meals & having plenty of good quality

fats & proteins will help with that. So will optimal DHEAS levels. Chromium

Picolinate is also helpful in regulating Insulin levels as is ALA.

" Armour as it contains more T3 than a healthy human would produce. Some of us

need to balance it with a little thyroxine. "

This is incorrect and an argument oft used by Endos to justify T4 only! See this

article by Dr Ray Peat which points out that in fact that in fact the Thyroid

produces at T3:T4 ratio of 1:3 even HIGHER than the 1:4 Armour & Dessicated

Thyroid USP!!!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion and Fraud

excerpt

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/thyroid.shtml

Years ago it was reported that Armour thyroid, U.S.P., released T3

and T4, when digested, in a ratio of 1:3, and that people who used it

had much higher ratios of T3 to T4 in their serum, than people who

took only thyroxine.

The argument was made that thyroxine was superior to thyroid U.S.P.,

without explaining the significance of the fact that HEALTHY PEOPLE

WHO WEREN'T TAKING ANY THYROID SUPPLEMENT HAD HIGHER T3:T4 RATIOS

THAN THE PEOPLE WHO TOOK THYROXINE, or that OUR OWN THYROID GLAND

RELEASES A HIGH RATIO OF T3 TO T4.

The fact that the T3 IS BEING USED FASTER THAN T4, REMOVING IT FROM

THE BLOOD MORE QUICKLY THAN IT ENTERS FROM THE THYROID GLAND ITSELF,

hasn't been discussed in the journals, possibly because it would

support the view that a natural glandular balance was more

appropriate to supplement than pure thyroxine.

The SERUM'S HIGH RATIO OF T4 TO T3 is a pitifully poor argument to

justify the use of thyroxine INSTEAD OF A PRODUCT THAT RESEMBLES THE

PROPORTION OF THESE SUBSTANCES SECRETED BY A HEALTHY THYROID GLAND,

OR MAINTAINED INSIDE CELLS.

About 30 years ago, when many people still thought of thyroxine

as " the thryoid hormone, " someone was making the argument that " the

thyroid hormone " must work exclusively as an activator of genes,

since most of the organ slices he tested didn't increase their oxygen

consumption when it was added.

In fact, the ADDITION OF THYROXINE TO BRAIN SLICES SUPPRESSED THEIR

RESPIRATION BY 6% during the experiment. Since most T3 is produced

from T4 in the liver, not in the brain, I think that experiment had

great significance, despite the ignorant interpretation of the

author.

AN EXCESS OF THYROXINE, IN A TISSUE THAT DOESN'T CONVERT IT RAPIDLY

TO T3, HAS AN ANTITHYROID ACTION. (SEE GOUMAZ, ET AL, 1987.) THIS

HAPPENS IN MANY WOMEN WHO ARE GIVEN THYROXINE; AS THEIR DOSE IS

INCREASED, THEIR SYMPTOMS GET WORSE.

The brain concentrates T3 from the serum, and may have a

concentration 6 times higher than the serum (Goumaz, et al., 1987),

and it can achieve a higher concentration of T3 than T4. It takes up

and concentrates T3, while tending to expel T4.

REVERSE T3 (RT3) DOESN'T HAVE MUCH ABILITY TO ENTER THE BRAIN, BUT

INCREASED T4 CAN CAUSE IT TO BE PRODUCED IN THE BRAIN. These

observations suggest to me that the blood's T3:T4 ratio would be

very " brain favorable " if it approached more closely to the ratio

formed in the thyroid gland, and secreted into the blood. Although

most synthetic combination thyroid products now use a ratio of four

T4 to one T3, many people feel that their memory and thinking are

clearer when they take a ratio of about three to one.

MORE ACTIVE METABOLISM PROBABLY KEEPS THE BLOOD RATIO OF T3 TO T4

RELATIVELY HIGH, with the liver consuming T4 at about the same rate

that T3 is used.

Since T3 has a short half life, it should be taken frequently. If the

liver isn't producing a noticeable amount of T3, it is usually

helpful to take a few micrograms per hour. Since it restores

respiration and metabolic efficiency very quickly, it isn't usually

necessary to take it every hour or two, but until normal temperature

and pulse have been achieved and stabilized, sometimes it's necessary

to take it four or more times during the day. T4 acts by being

changed to T3, so it tends to accumulate in the body, and on a given

dose, usually reaches a steady concentration after about two weeks.

An effective way to use supplements is to take a combination T4-T3

dose, e.g., 40 mcg of T4 and 10 mcg of T3 once a day, and to use a

few mcg of T3 at other times in the day. Keeping a 14-day chart of

pulse rate and temperature allows you to see whether the dose is

producing the desired response. If the figures aren't increasing at

all after a few days, the dose can be increased, until a gradual

daily increment can be seen, moving toward the goal at the rate of

about 1/14 per day

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Lethal Lee

[Guest guest]

Hello everyone, thanks for your replies. I spoke to Dr P briefly last week,

forgot to tell him about the needing to wee alot as my GP was so sure it was a

UTI but lab results never showed any bacteria (only one dipstick did), but here

I am 6 weeks of feeling like I need to wee all the time and having taken 5

courses of various antibiotics have got no where. They have told me to 'go away

and see if things settle down', the usual fobbing off they do coz they haven't

got a clue what to do with me. Meanwhile, it may sound dramatic but it's ruining

my life and the school runs aren't fun coz I have to walk. Dr P recommended I

increase the HC to 30 mg which I have done, he said a low normal T4 and high T3

was OK, although T3 would definately be well over range now as that was when I

was on 2 grains Armour and now on 3 and a half. Could adrenals be the cause of

the constant feeling that I need to urinate? Looking on the net, could be low

aldosterone but does that cause more frequent urination than the constant

discomfort I'm experiencing? I am drinking lots as always thirsty BUT according

to my scales that show water/muscle/fat ratio as well as weight, I am well below

the normal range for water which I guess means I'm dehydrated and I feel

dehydrated with the headaches and thirst. I'm also putting on weight after doing

so well I'm reluctant to go back to GP unless I know exactly what to suggest,

they did say they should do but blood tests but when I asked what tests they

didn't know, probably just humouring me ha ha. I have seen three GPs about the

needing to wee all the time, none of them have come up with anything other than

handing me antibiotics and as usual I'm having to do the thinking. If there is a

chance it's adrenal-related I will go back and demand they do tests but need to

have some idea which ones. Dr P is unavailable till the 14th so can't ask him. I

have been having sea salt, if they test sodium will probably be normal coz I've

also realised I'm having loads of marmite and soy sauce and I HATE anything

salty, deliberately avoid salt ha ha. I'm so tired and fed up. My blood pressure

is fine, rises as it should but then it always has, but my pulse still shoots up

from 70 to 120 just by standing up so feel dizzy. I feel better in the evenings

after the mid afternoonn slump which i have to drag myself through. Main

question is can adrenals cause the feeling like I need to wee all the time?

Thanks in advance for any replies.XX

>

> HI Lostgirl

>

> " Lowish FT4 and highish FT3 are normal for Armour

> I beg to differ with this remark. If FT4 is low with high FT3 when on 3 grains

Armour I would strongly suspect that LOW Cortisol is causind FT3 pooling.

>

> I see you are on only 20mg HC I think that is too low a dose for anyone. On

RTH & Hormone Support Group we see Women needing MINIMUM of 25mg HC & Men 30mg

HC.

>

> Especially with the amount of exercise you were doing you would have been

burning through the HC too. Were you stress dosing before the exercise?

>

> As regards to frequent copious weeling I strongly recommend you get

Aldosterone, Renin, Salt & Potassium tested. Do you have low BP fast HR at all?

Does BP drop or rise from sitting to standing? Systolic should consisitently

rise at least 10 points.

>

> See my post here on how to correctly test

> thyroid treatment/message/35532

>

> When was Potassuim & Sodium last tested & what were the results?

> Do you do Sea Salt supping at all? Have you tried increasing it to see if it

reduces the peeing?

>

> Suboptimal & unbalanced electrolytes causes cellular dehydration, affects

every body function & is a big stressor as well. Worth checking it out.

>

> If you are having blood sugar regulation problems that can be

[Guest guest]

Your frequent need for urination could be low aldosterone. Those folk with low

aldosterone are unable to retain sodium, and it spills into the bladder, taking

water with it. This results in frequent urination, dehydration, and heat intolerance.

Electrolytes become imbalanced, resulting in muscle twitches, heart

palpitations, and the pupils of the eyes are unable to stay

“constricted” when subjected to light (they “flutter”)

- check this out Ruth. Check out Dr Lam's web site on Adrenals - this guy is

one of the best, and follow its links to learn more about aldosterone, and how

to treat it. http://www.drlam.com/articles/adrenal_fatigue.asp

Also, reading Dr Thierry Hertoghe's " The Hormone

Handbook " he states " Complaints of Aldosterone Deficiency " How

does a person with aldosterone deficiency feel?

Typical, individuals with aldosterone deficiency have low blood

pressure. The lack of aldosterone, the principal salt-and-water-retaining

hormone, makes the patient lose a great deal of fluid in the urine. Because of

the low blood pressure, the blood and thus nutrient and oxygen supply does not

reach the brain of a person with low blood pressure well, particularly when the

person stands up, making the patient feel drowsy and absent-minded. The principle

complaints suggestive of aldosterone deficiency are:

Behaviour: Tendency to lie down. Tendency to move all the time

when standing up to increase blood pressure.

Concentration: Drowsiness - xombie-like feeling. Easily

distracted, absent-minded. Day dreaming. Difficulty focusing on tasks. Feels

better in head when lying flat on a bed or moving all the time.

Vision: Troubled vision with difficulties in focusing on

objects and tasks when standing up

Food: Salt and salty food cravings. Thirsty often, strong tendency

to drinking a lot of water and other liquids.

Urine: Polyuria, especially during the day.

Does this sound like it could be your problem Ruth?

Luv - Sheila

Hello everyone, thanks for your replies. I

spoke to Dr P briefly last week, forgot to tell him about the needing to wee

alot as my GP was so sure it was a UTI but lab results never showed any

bacteria (only one dipstick did), but here I am 6 weeks of feeling like I need

to wee all the time and having taken 5 courses of various antibiotics have got

no where. They have told me to 'go away and see if things settle down', the

usual fobbing off they do coz they haven't got a clue what to do with me.

Meanwhile, it may sound dramatic but it's ruining my life and the school runs

aren't fun coz I have to walk. Dr P recommended I increase the HC to 30 mg

which I have done, he said a low normal T4 and high T3 was OK, although T3

would definately be well over range now as that was when I was on 2 grains

Armour and now on 3 and a half. Could adrenals be the cause of the constant

feeling that I need to urinate? Looking on the net, could be low aldosterone

but does that cause more frequent urination than the constant discomfort I'm

experiencing? I am drinking lots as always thirsty BUT according to my scales

that show water/muscle/fat ratio as well as weight, I am well below the normal

range for water which I guess means I'm dehydrated and I feel dehydrated with

the headaches and thirst. I'm also putting on weight after doing so well I'm

reluctant to go back to GP unless I know exactly what to suggest, they did say

they should do but blood tests but when I asked what tests they didn't know,

probably just humouring me ha ha. I have seen three GPs about the needing to

wee all the time, none of them have come up with anything other than handing me

antibiotics and as usual I'm having to do the thinking. If there is a chance it's

adrenal-related I will go back and demand they do tests but need to have some

idea which ones. Dr P is unavailable till the 14th so can't ask him. I have

been having sea salt, if they test sodium will probably be normal coz I've also

realised I'm having loads of marmite and soy sauce and I HATE anything salty,

deliberately avoid salt ha ha. I'm so tired and fed up. My blood pressure is

fine, rises as it should but then it always has, but my pulse still shoots up

from 70 to 120 just by standing up so feel dizzy. I feel better in the evenings

after the mid afternoonn slump which i have to drag myself through. Main

question is can adrenals cause the feeling like I need to wee all the time?

Thanks in advance for any replies.XX

>

> HI Lostgirl

>

> " Lowish FT4 and highish FT3 are normal for Armour

> I beg to differ with this remark. If FT4 is low with high FT3 when on 3

grains Armour I would strongly suspect that LOW Cortisol is causind FT3

pooling.

>

> I see you are on only 20mg HC I think that is too low a dose for anyone.

On RTH & Hormone Support Group we see Women needing MINIMUM of 25mg HC

& Men 30mg HC.

>

> Especially with the amount of exercise you were doing you would have been

burning through the HC too. Were you stress dosing before the exercise?

>

> As regards to frequent copious weeling I strongly recommend you get

Aldosterone, Renin, Salt & Potassium tested. Do you have low BP fast HR at

all? Does BP drop or rise from sitting to standing? Systolic should

consisitently rise at least 10 points.

>

> See my post here on how to correctly test

> thyroid treatment/message/35532

>

> When was Potassuim & Sodium last tested & what were the results?

> Do you do Sea Salt supping at all? Have you tried increasing it to see if

it reduces the peeing?

>

> Suboptimal & unbalanced electrolytes causes cellular dehydration,

affects every body function & is a big stressor as well. Worth checking it

out.

>

> If you are having blood sugar regulation problems that can be