Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 Donna, please could you site any reference that says that protease will cause irritation of the stomach lining. You seem to often make blanket statements that I believe have no merit. I have used high doses of pure protease for anyone with pain to great relief and have never had anyone suffer anything but relief. The literature that I have read, protease on an EMPTY stomach between meals for pain due to inflammation. Dr. Eliezer Ben-ph Personal and Financial Freedom www.herbs4health.com (home page) www.successlinks.com/global-3 (financial freedom) www.16thamendment.com/global-3 (IRS income tax fraud) www.taxstatement.com/global-3 (IRS income tax fraud) Watch your thoughts; they become your words. Watch your words; they become your actions. Watch your actions; they become your habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character, it becomes your destiny. Re: Enzymes > > > What is amylase? How much do you take? Where do you get it? How much did you > take and how soon did the allergies go away? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 http://www.risingstarlc.com/pdindex.htm This sounds like a super product and I am thinking about getting that. Any feedback? Christel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 > please could you site any reference that says that protease will > cause irritation of the stomach lining. > A papaya enzyme concoction I had made my stomach feel like it was being chewed on. I do have inflammation and corn allergy. I was glad to find out that amylase can be purchased separately. Would like to try some with my diabetic since diabetics are often low in this. I tried to sell her endo on the idea that she could well need digestive enzymes but I haven't gotten anywhere with her as yet. The combos I have tried on my daughter haven't resulted in much as yet. The endo told me that enough vitamin D could be gotten after 5 minutes on a bare arm. I said that we are talking therapeutics here. I felt like saying the 5 minute vitamin D plan might keep someone out of the morgue! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 Bromelain (pineapple core) is good for inflammation. I've done lots of protease on an empty stomach with no problem. nancy > > please could you site any reference that says that protease will > > cause irritation of the stomach lining. > > > > A papaya enzyme concoction I had made my stomach feel like it was being > chewed on. I do have inflammation and corn allergy. I was glad to > find out that amylase can be purchased separately. Would like to try > some with my diabetic since diabetics are often low in this. I tried to > sell her endo on the idea that she could well need digestive enzymes but > I haven't gotten anywhere with her as yet. The combos I have tried on > my daughter haven't resulted in much as yet. The endo told me that > enough vitamin D could be gotten after 5 minutes on a bare arm. I said > that we are talking therapeutics here. I felt like saying the 5 minute > vitamin D plan might keep someone out of the morgue! J. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 Hi Dr. Ben ph, No I can't, off the top of my head, but I will make some calls and get the info. I am not an enzyme expert. If I was, I would have thought of this alot sooner. I have only used general digestive enzymes and have benefited from that. The company I buy from is called R Garden and they have three main enzyme products one is called Maximizer and it is very high in several types of protease. And the company warns people that if they have an ulcer of sensitive stomachs that they might want to take one of their other enzyme products. One is called quadra zyme and it has protease in it but much less and the other is gamma zyme which has no protease in it and a few healing herbs. They recommend that for people with sensitive stomachs. I have used all three and when I used the maximizer which is high in protease I did get some stomach irritation, so my experience agrees with what they have said. However, I don't have any medical papers to back that up. I will call them, tho and ask if they do and then get back to the group. Donna Re: Enzymes Donna, please could you site any reference that says that protease will cause irritation of the stomach lining. You seem to often make blanket statements that I believe have no merit. I have used high doses of pure protease for anyone with pain to great relief and have never had anyone suffer anything but relief. The literature that I have read, protease on an EMPTY stomach between meals for pain due to inflammation. Dr. Eliezer Ben-ph Personal and Financial Freedom www.herbs4health.com (home page) www.successlinks.com/global-3 (financial freedom) www.16thamendment.com/global-3 (IRS income tax fraud) www.taxstatement.com/global-3 (IRS income tax fraud) Watch your thoughts; they become your words. Watch your words; they become your actions. Watch your actions; they become your habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character, it becomes your destiny. Re: Enzymes > > > What is amylase? How much do you take? Where do you get it? How much did you > take and how soon did the allergies go away? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 I, personally, wish we would be as gentle as possible with each other on this list, please. We're almost family; overseeing protecting, providing for one another. Obie. Re: Enzymes > > > > > > What is amylase? How much do you take? Where do you get it? How much > did you > > take and how soon did the allergies go away? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2001 Report Share Posted April 6, 2001 i have been taking pancreatic enzymes(bovine) for years in extremely high doses to chew up stuff in my colon. i seem to go in cycles. when my organs are strong i can handle large doses, and when they are weak it is very irritating. the body will let you know what it wants. papaya seeds irritate me, so does pineapple juice(bromelain). i can only handle these in limited doses. i don't hear many people talking about pancreatic enzymes, and i wonder why since they have worked wonders for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2001 Report Share Posted April 6, 2001 i know that two nutritionists here in nyc are into them. both are very knowledgable about yeast and parasites. the way i understand it is that in a normal healthy person after a meal the pancreas secretes pancreatin to help clean away debris left by the food. in people with yeast problems i'm sure this process has been severely compromised and the pancreas is unable to do its job properly. or people with impacted colons, the pancreas is overly stressed trying and trying to clean things up but unable to. pancreatin also chews up parasites. supposedly it is good for any type of inflammation as well. i have noticed that it gives me alot of energy sometimes. i am guessing that my pancreas gets relief and then is able to tend to regulating my blood sugar instead of trying to make huge amounts of enzyme. from talking with the practitioners i know they say that sensitive people tend to tolerate the bovine source better than the porcine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2001 Report Share Posted April 6, 2001 Protease (and Bromelain) can irritate your stomach and colon. I've seen patients who couldn't take them, and I can't take them anymore for more than a few days either, nor can my wife. Protease in a general digestive formula with the other enzymes, therefore " diluted, " makes it easier to take, so most people can tolerate it. Protease taken by itself for extended periods can cause tetany (cramps) so it should be taken with a little calcium. NESS makes a protease formula with a little calcium for infections, and sells it under their Vetzymes label as V4, but it works good for humans too. Again, I have noted that effect when I used to take large doses of protease for infections. The muscles start tightening up and then you can get a cramp. They are great items to take however if you can tolerate them. -- JP Donna, please could you site any reference that says that protease will cause irritation of the stomach lining. You seem to often make blanket statements that I believe have no merit. I have used high doses of pure protease for anyone with pain to great relief and have never had anyone suffer anything but relief. The literature that I have read, protease on an EMPTY stomach between meals for pain due to inflammation. Dr. Eliezer Ben-ph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2001 Report Share Posted April 6, 2001 So JP. Do YOU have references. I was just getting ready to write to Dr. Ben-ph and tell him that " Irene " of R Garden could not find any references in their books and said that they were trained by Obrien who is no longer with R Garden. He moved to Wyoming or Montana and she does not have is address. And he is the one who taught them about protease irritating some peoples tissues. I told her I was amazed that they could not back up that statement. And she said no one had ever asked for references before. So I have hit a dead end, Dr BJ. Perhaps someelse can give you references to a medical paper. I was unable to find one. I tried. Donna Re: Enzymes Protease (and Bromelain) can irritate your stomach and colon. I've seen patients who couldn't take them, and I can't take them anymore for more than a few days either, nor can my wife. Protease in a general digestive formula with the other enzymes, therefore " diluted, " makes it easier to take, so most people can tolerate it. Protease taken by itself for extended periods can cause tetany (cramps) so it should be taken with a little calcium. NESS makes a protease formula with a little calcium for infections, and sells it under their Vetzymes label as V4, but it works good for humans too. Again, I have noted that effect when I used to take large doses of protease for infections. The muscles start tightening up and then you can get a cramp. They are great items to take however if you can tolerate them. -- JP Donna, please could you site any reference that says that protease will cause irritation of the stomach lining. You seem to often make blanket statements that I believe have no merit. I have used high doses of pure protease for anyone with pain to great relief and have never had anyone suffer anything but relief. The literature that I have read, protease on an EMPTY stomach between meals for pain due to inflammation. Dr. Eliezer Ben-ph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2001 Report Share Posted April 6, 2001 I sure would like to know more about pancreatic enzymes. I have heard that pancreatin is supposed to be good at eating up cancer cells, but I don't remember where I read it and how much and for how long or what kind of cancer? If you know more, please share. Donna Re: Enzymes snip i have been taking pancreatic enzymes(bovine) for years in extremely high doses . . . . .i don't hear many people talking about pancreatic enzymes, and i wonder why since they have worked wonders for me. snip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2001 Report Share Posted April 6, 2001 Pancreatic enzymes are good with these drawbacks: They have a smaller pH range in which they are active (compared to plant enzymes). They can cause gastic irritation as can all proteolytic enzymes (depends on the person). They can possibly suppress normal pancreatic enzymes if taken for a long time. I had one patient I tried to recommend some healing enzymes to in place of pancreatic enzymes because her UA showed an irritated digestive system. She refused, and happened to die of pancreatic cancer the next year. She had taken them at a large dose for years. Coincidental? Who knows for sure? - JP i have been taking pancreatic enzymes(bovine) for years in extremely high doses to chew up stuff in my colon. i seem to go in cycles. when my organs are strong i can handle large doses, and when they are weak it is very irritating. the body will let you know what it wants. papaya seeds irritate me, so does pineapple juice(bromelain). i can only handle these in limited doses. i don't hear many people talking about pancreatic enzymes, and i wonder why since they have worked wonders for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2001 Report Share Posted April 6, 2001 I learned it through seminars, talking to the doctors who taught me, consulting with them, finding out from the enzyme company reps we work with, so I guess you could say I " absorbed " that information over time. Clinical and personal experience too. " Why is this hurting my stomach? Call the doc. " ) JP Re: Enzymes Protease (and Bromelain) can irritate your stomach and colon. I've seen patients who couldn't take them, and I can't take them anymore for more than a few days either, nor can my wife. Protease in a general digestive formula with the other enzymes, therefore " diluted, " makes it easier to take, so most people can tolerate it. Protease taken by itself for extended periods can cause tetany (cramps) so it should be taken with a little calcium. NESS makes a protease formula with a little calcium for infections, and sells it under their Vetzymes label as V4, but it works good for humans too. Again, I have noted that effect when I used to take large doses of protease for infections. The muscles start tightening up and then you can get a cramp. They are great items to take however if you can tolerate them. -- JP Donna, please could you site any reference that says that protease will cause irritation of the stomach lining. You seem to often make blanket statements that I believe have no merit. I have used high doses of pure protease for anyone with pain to great relief and have never had anyone suffer anything but relief. The literature that I have read, protease on an EMPTY stomach between meals for pain due to inflammation. Dr. Eliezer Ben-ph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2001 Report Share Posted April 24, 2001 Yikes, Obie. R Gardens has all that in it and it only Cost $16 retail (90 caps) and if you sign up for $5 for alifetime you can buy more than one and get a discount. And Dr. Bormann says most enzymes come from the same company and everyone buys from them and puts their own labels on it. Contact me privately if you want more info. Donna. Enzymes I'd like to add a thought to the discussion about Wobenzym, please. I've located DigestZyme by Transformation of Houston; contains 200 220 mg capsules which contain Protease, Amylase, Lipase, Cellulase, Lactase, Sucrase, Matase plus Lactobacillis acidophyilus and Bifidobacterium logum. I mean, after hearing that we need something with all eight enzymes in it, here is something with 7 of them and not priced at $75 a bottle. Obie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2001 Report Share Posted April 25, 2001 , thanks for your post. Perhaps we can generate a discussion about this issue that will be helpful to many of us. I say this because I think I'm developing a position about this idea regarding an item needing to be enterically coated. I'm not overly intellegent but I am intellectionally honest; that is, two and two, eventually, equal four for me. Even thought there may be post after post faulting me -- and I won't mind that -- I just want to say what I am thinking about the bypass of the upper intestine issue. , I can have the dribbles for several weeks, finally find Saw Palmetto, encapsulated as it is, take one in the a. m. and 1 in the p. m. and the drib's stop [two and two equals it ain't true about Saw Palmetto]. I can increase my intake of Vit C daily until I'm up to about 12,500 mg per day and, any more, and I get the runs; [two and two says it ain't true about Vit C]. I can take too much Cayenne pepper and, believe me, tomorrow morning, fireworks [two and two]. And it doesn't stop there, there are numbers of things we eat or take that are not completely destroyed in our stomachs. I can't say this for everything because I haven't tried everything. But do you see what I'm being confronted with, ? I know Dr. So-and-so says we need to take enterically-coated meds and Prof. Such-and-such says this and that but, in my own experience and the common experience of ordinary individuals, where's the proof? Also, we've been told recently that we have to open the capsules, sprinkle the powder on our food so our tonsils and adenoids can send the appropriate signal to our HCI facility or something won't get digested. Well, if that's true, then the powder dies in our stomach from HCI and won't be of much, if any, benefit later on or, if we don't have tonsils and adenoids, the signal won't go forward and the whatever will dies in our stomach and we --I, for sure -- knew that thst just isn't true. If I was the average individual, I'm sure, if I was making enzymes, I'd coat them, then I'd charge them electrically, then I'd mix them in an emolient of some sort, then I'd hybridize them, then I'd add this plus to them and then that plus to them and on and on. And, I apologize. I don't mean to carry on, and I'm not challenging the other people's ideas or findings; I'm not doing that at all. I'm just saying that I have trouble putting together some of the advice because some of it doesn't sync in with my _own_ personal experience. The most hilarious thing I can think of is to ask you at this point is who are some of the other makers in the US, please? I'd like to validate or verify a little bit. Obie. Re: Enzymes > > Obie, > > The Metabolics practitioners emphasize that the > proteolytic enzymes should be enterically coated > to avoid their being digested in the stomach. > They are excellent digestive enzymes, but we > want to have them carried through the blood to > the cancer site and digest the shell that the > cancerous cells protect themselves with. Wobenzym-N > are such enzymes, but there others which are made > in USA. > > Hed > > > > On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:12:18 -0700 OBIE <obie2@...> writes: > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > >------=_NextPart_000_01F0_01C0CC9E.A942CBC0 > >Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset= " iso-8859-1 " > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > >I'd like to add a thought to the discussion about Wobenzym, please. = > >I've located DigestZyme by Transformation of Houston; contains 200 220 > >= > >mg capsules which contain Protease, Amylase, Lipase, Cellulase, > >Lactase, = > >Sucrase, Matase plus Lactobacillis acidophyilus and Bifidobacterium = > >logum. I mean, after hearing that we need something with all eight = > >enzymes in it, here is something with 7 of them and not priced at $75 > >a = > >bottle. Obie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >UNSUBSCRIBING FROM THE PRALT-DISCUSS LIST: > > > >Registered Topica users can unsubscribe from the list on the web with > >the click of a button. At the Topica site, while in the Pralt-Discuss > >List, in their list preferences. > > > >Subscribers can also unsubscribe from your list via email simply by > >sending a BLANK email to: > > > > Pralt-Discuss-unsubscribe@... > > > >=3D=3D^=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dfcn.b1qMJu > >Or send an email Pralt-Discuss-unsubscribe@... > >This email was sent to: paulhed@... > > > >T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. > >Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. > >http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 > >=3D=3D^=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > >------=_NextPart_000_01F0_01C0CC9E.A942CBC0 > >Content-Type: text/html; > > charset= " iso-8859-1 " > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN " > > ><HTML><HEAD> > ><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D " text/html; = > >charset=3Diso-8859-1 " > > ><META content=3D " MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801 " name=3DGENERATOR> > ><STYLE></STYLE> > ></HEAD> > ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> > ><DIV><FONT face=3D " Comic Sans MS " >I'd like to add a thought to the = > >discussion=20 > >about Wobenzym, please. & nbsp; I've located DigestZyme by > >Transformation = > >of=20 > >Houston; contains 200 220 mg capsules which contain Protease, Amylase, > >= > >Lipase,=20 > >Cellulase, Lactase, Sucrase, Matase plus Lactobacillis acidophyilus > >and=20 > >Bifidobacterium logum. & nbsp; I mean, after hearing that we need = > >something with=20 > >all eight enzymes in it, here is something with 7 of them and not > >priced = > >at $75=20 > >a bottle. & nbsp; Obie.</FONT></DIV> > ><DIV><FONT face=3D " Comic Sans MS " ></FONT> & nbsp;</DIV> > ><DIV><FONT face=3D " Comic Sans MS " ></FONT> & nbsp;</DIV> > ><PRE> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >UNSUBSCRIBING FROM THE PRALT-DISCUSS LIST: > > > >Registered Topica users can unsubscribe from the list on the web with > >the click of a button. At the Topica site, while in the Pralt-Discuss > >List, in their list preferences. > > > >Subscribers can also unsubscribe from your list via email simply by > >sending a BLANK email to: > > > > Pralt-Discuss-unsubscribe@... > > > ></PRE> > ><PRE>=3D=3D^=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: <A > >HREF=3D " http://topica.com/u/?b1dfcn.b1qMJu " >http://topica.com/u/?b1dfcn.b1q MJu</A> > >Or send an email Pralt-Discuss-unsubscribe@... > >This email was sent to: paulhed@... > > > >T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. > >Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. > ><A > >HREF=3D " http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 " >http://www.topica.com/partner/ tag01</A> > >=3D=3D^=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</PRE> > ></BODY></HTML> > > > >------=_NextPart_000_01F0_01C0CC9E.A942CBC0-- > > > > > > > > > > > > ================================================= > UNSUBSCRIBING FROM THE PRALT-DISCUSS LIST: > > Registered Topica users can unsubscribe from the list on the web with the click of a button. At the Topica site, while in the Pralt-Discuss List, in their list preferences. > > Subscribers can also unsubscribe from your list via email simply by sending a BLANK email to: > > Pralt-Discuss-unsubscribe@... > > ==^================================================================ > EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dfcn.b2vCHe > Or send an email Pralt-Discuss-unsubscribe@... > This email was sent to: obie2@... > > T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. > http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 > ==^================================================================ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 I am not a proponent of preaching treatments, so please take this as just some extra information. There is a group on called autism treatment. I was directed to this group after reading some pretty positive stuff about enzyme supplements. My husband, who has pretty much distanced himself from all this, actually jumped on this after reading what I sent him. We are now giving Jacqui Peptizyde enzymes with meals and we have seen improvements. I just wanted to pass the info along and you all can do your own research. Just another avenue to pursue. autism treatment Penny-------------------------------------------------------- " Just remember this: Plenty of Horsepower, No Traction " - R. S. on " If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer.Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away. " --Henry Thoreau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 Penny, I just got our enzymes in the mail today. How long until you saw results? Was your daughter GFCF already? Have you seen any negative side effects? Thanks. Joanna (mom to 5) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2001 Report Share Posted August 2, 2001 Johanna - My daughter (6 1/2) is not GFCF - I would say about 80%. We saw results in about a week. (I know, hard to believe but true). I have not seen any true " negative " side-effects. Other than being more " whiny " than usual. We are keeping daily food lists, behavior notes, bathroom schedules, and when we are giving her the enyzmes. Good luck to you! Penny-------------------------------------------------------- " Just remember this: Plenty of Horsepower, No Traction " - R. S. on " If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer.Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away. " --Henry Thoreau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 Minna- this was awesome, thanks. My daughter Bridget has been gfcf for about 2 years and has been on peptizyde and ZP for about 4 months now. I had tried Serenaid before and we had a pretty bad experience, so I was reluctant to try again. But when Bridget's vit/minerals were not being produced for a span of time (seemed like forever!) I decided to give them another go and I'm happy with the results so far. We are starting up the vit/minerals again and are seeing major hyperness- this happened last time as we ramped up her minerals. I'm trying to phase it in slowly. Last time she was on them, when she had been full strength for about 2 months, she was actually calmer than ever before. Thanks again for all the insight and info. Deanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 hi Amy Nardin, am responding to your questions about enzymes. first will share a little intro about what am know about enzymes... and then will share experience with them, and try to reply to your questions. Enzymes are molecules found in all living things. no enzymes=no life. they virtually run your whole body, and you could not digest or absorb food, walk, talk, or even breath without enzymes. enzymes are catalysts that trigger and accelerate chemical reactions in your body. healthy eating will provide vitamins and minerals needed for healthy body, mind but it is the enzymes that make them available for the body to use. vitamins and minerals are considered to be co-enzymes and work together with enzymes. there are hundreds of different kinds of enzymes in body cells, some are to digest food, to release nutrients, break down toxins cleans the blood, transmit nerve signals, repair tissues, organs and cells.. (am sore there are many other enzymes but am just learning about them) there are two different kinds of enzymes... digestive and metabolic. digestive enzymes is what are being used quite extensively now for treatment of disorders such as autism, (and more, but will not get into them all here). digestive enzymes are found all along the intestines. our bodies utilizes these enzymes to digest the foods we eat. RAW foods are where enzymes are found.... raw foods have the ability to digest itself wether we eat it raw [like raw vegetables] or wether it decomposes in nature. when we eat foods devoid of enzymes [too much cooked or processed foods] then we are demanding that our bodies break down 100% of the food. this is a huge demand on our bodies reserve of enzymes. cooking food any way, baking, broiling, boiling, processing, canning, pasturizing, pr preserving destroys enzymes. they cannot withstand heat. so this shows how most of our diets depletes our enzymes. you asked: and have you really seen dramatic results? these are the dramatic resluts have seen so far (daughter has been on enzymes for 3 months now,so this is what have witnessed in 3 months) * increase awareness in surroundings.. (persoanl experience from own life.. have been watching the " drew carry show " and " whose line is it anyways " for 2 yrs now, and after taking enzymes for a month and half all of a sudden REALIZED that the actors in both shows are the same people!!! had never noticed that before.. although have watched these shows for 2 yrs 5 days a week, every week.... hhmmm how did mine mind miss it before? lol). also, daughter has begun asking questions when she does not understand something... before she would just sit and pretend to know or listen (or what ever she was doing?) she asked a question such as " what does it mean when people say 'that piece of cake has my name written all over it' ?. * increased physical energy and balance, daughter has not been able to skate, ski, ride a bike jump on one foot etc. ever before. she coudl not ride a bike with training wheels because she did not have enough muscle tone to push the pedals (she is 9 yrs old). she started skating (we live on a lake and have a ice rink 30 feet from our front door all winter) 3 weeks into starting her enzymes.. she had started to develop enough of a balance that she is pushing herself on the skates and is staying upright quite a bit. the energy part comes in when she is able to stay out and practice her skating for over 2 hours at a time! also she woudl never tobaggan before for more then 2-3 times down the hill because she got too tired walking up again, she has started to tobaggen for 1-2 hours at a time! going up the hill all alone! also just this week she wanted to try skiing! she had never wanted to, shown interest or seemed to notice there was such a thing.. although we have seen skiers, and have skiis for the kids to use if they want to.. she has never asked or shown interest. * increased appetite (although people who have children with large appetites have said enzymes have resulted in decreased appetite, this is because with the enzymes they are now digesting their food and do not need to eat such large amounts to try tog et some nutrition in). daughter is extremely fussy about her foods, self limiting, and has always had issues around food. she would eat her favorite-Mcs chicken nuggest, get a happy meal (with 4 nuggets) and only eat 2 nuggest, half of the child size fries and 1/4 cup of pop and say she was full. she would eat half of one toast and be full. now she eats the whole happy meal except for a little bit of the fries. she has been 45 lbs since age 5 until age 9 without gaining a pound although she has gained in height. after being on the enzymes for 3 months she has gained 2 pounds! * more social... she joined the choir at school!! she is extremely shy and introverted and she joined the choir, by arriving at the choir room door and had started to sing... so they let her in.... she did this with the chess club too.. she has never even had interest in chess before.. she had done the same as with the choir with the chess... * decrease in self-stimming (after the initial 3 week period.. more on that below) (does not repeat the same video clips at fast forward nearly as often, unless very stressed) * better sound tolerance, and touch... michelle is very senstive to temperatures, and will have a bath in very cool water. now she tolerates much warmer temperatures. louder sounds, (cars, vacuums, sons loud video obsessions, dogs barking. *stools/bowels .. michelle has been constantly constipated since birth... suppositories were needed very often, and when not her stools were like little rabbit pellets that she later indicated had left her bowels so sore that she could not sit down after moving them. she indicated herself that now she does not feel that pain, and she has more normal consistency in her bowels... initially when fine tuning her starting doses she had loose bowels twice. now her situation is quite opposite of others because most report that their child has very loose and 'stinky' stools and that is what has been improving for them. * imprived transitioning. * increased eye contact. * increased humor... michelle comes and makes lots of jokes.. (son has started enzymes later then michelle but he just came up with a very funny thing too.. he said 'a new milk for the lactose intolerant.. hive-alicious " ..[he is 11 1/2 and AS as well])... she shows her sense of humor in a way which is clearly her own thoughts.. not repeating over and over 'jokes' she has heard... her jokes are not ver sophisticated but sheis also getting better at understanding jokes she hears... she laughs at appropriate times... you asked: " Are there any side effects " and: " Are they dangerous, etc " will answer this by posting a file from the enzymesautism : this ends the part which are mine part of this post. hope this is helpful for you and others. minna (aspergers, mom to 2 kids with aspergers) Possible Effects of Enzyme Use and Troubleshooting Guide autism treatment NOTE: For a perspective on how this hyperactivity, stimming, regression may be related to improvements, and a sign the enzymes are working, please see the Hyperness/Stimming note given by an AS adult at the end of this document. One researcher explains it this way " when digestion starts to work better, malabsorption decreases, and the food supply to the gut flora is normalized ....then the die-off releases toxins and substances that can provoke allergic like symptoms. This included more frequent bowel movements, increased irritability, increased / decreased appetite, hyperactivity and more compulsive behaviors. Usually these presentations ceased before the third week of testing. " So hyperactivity and irritability and withdrawal/allergy symptoms can be indications the enzymes are working and the body is re-adjusting. Hyperactivity: This seems to be a very common side-effect with enzyme use, although by no means does every person react this way. There are several reasons why a child may be more hyperactive with enzymes. 1) It may be an acute withdrawal reaction from gluten/casein peptides, even though you have been GFCF for awhile. There are other sources of peptide production (bacteria, hemoglobin degradation) within the body. Higher doses may be removing the sedative effect of the peptides. You may want to decrease the dose to lessen the symptoms. Hyperness is a very common behavior when kids start the GFCF diet, so the enzymes may just be removing a few more hidden or unknown sources. Magnesium is recommmended often for this for those beginning the diet. 2) Increased Awareness: When there is significant improvement in many areas, there may also be increased stimming, hyperactivity, anxiety and a bit of sound sensitivity. This may be due to increased awareness of surroundings. All of this appears to be very common or standard. Also, realize that as the child becomes more aware, socially and otherwise, he has a lot more sensory input to try and interpret. This can be overwhelming and frustrating. It could be that as a protective behavior, he resorts to the stimming and hyperactivity to try and produce the endogenous opiates, like enkephalins. If that's the case, then maybe sticking with the routine and weathering the storm may work, if it is temporary. 3) Better digestion and overall improvement in health by the enzymes may unmask a nutrient deficiency. A common symptom of magnesium deficiency is hyperactivity. Magnesium supplements are recommended for treatment of hyperness in many conditions besides the treatment of ASD. Other supplements known to help with the hyperness are calcium, zinc, folic acid, chromium. 4) Another possibility is that your child may be sensitive to one of the components in the enzyme product, and it is only seen at a certain higher dose. But if it is a serious sensitivity, it would probably be obvious at any dose. 5) Enzymes are known to help keep yeast and bacteria in check, that is, in the proper balance and they remove toxins. If the child has some yeast or bacteria overgrowth issues, then the die-off occurring with the introduction of enzymes will release toxins and substances that can provoke allergic like symptoms. This readjustment period may last at long as 3 weeks. 5) Many parents report that adding Zyme Prime with the Peptizyde has decreased or eliminated the hyperactivity. No one knows really why. Perhaps the glucose modulating ability of the carbohydrate enzymes in ZP have an effect. Regression: Some parents starting on enzymes are seeing signs of " regression. " 1) This may be due to the enzymes clearing out peptides (the body produces some peptides internally) from previously unknown sources, so you see " withdrawal " symptoms similar to what you might have seen when beginning the GFCF diet. There is new evidence that soy contribute a peptide that is very similar to the gluten and casein peptides. So children eating a lot of soy may go through another withdrawal period because of these peptides being broken down. 2) Another reason for regression may be the child is now more aware and has more sensory input that he/she is not used to. This could be their way of coping until they adjust. Thirst: Many parents notice their child is very thirsty when they start enzymes. This is perfectly natural. The body is metabolising more food, so more water is needed to process the food. It is most likely a sign that the body is functioning better and absorbing more nutrients. Just give more water. Irregular Bowels: It has been noted that the body may take a day or two to adjust to the enzymes. Many people notice looser or runny stools for the first couple days before bowels become normal. This is standard for enzymes which have been used for decades. It may last up to 2 weeks. If it persists longer than that, reducing the amount of enzymes you give, especially the peptidases, may help. If this doesn't work, you should probably discontinue the enzymes and seek the advice of your doctor or other parents on the autism treatment message board. Bed-wetting: Some families have seen temporay bed-wetting. This has disappeared within the first week. The body seems to adjust with a little time, usually within a week or two. So this may explain the more frequent urination of kids on these enzymes: proteases are making more amino acids, carbohydrases are making glucose, not to mention the glutamine present in Peptizyde, and their increased presence is acting as a rehydration mechanism. If you are chelating, this may be a benefit, since the idea is to move metals out with the chelator in the urine. For best success: give enzymes at the beginning of a meal/snack. Enzymes need to be in solution, so either give with a good drink, or open the capsule and have the enzymes with the first few bites of food followed by a drink to wash the enzymes down. If the enzymes come in a veggie cap, such as Peptizyde and Zyme Prime, these may dissolve slower in the stomach. It is recommended to take a whole capsule 30 minutes before a meal/snack. Gelatin capsules dissolve within 1-2 minutes under stomach conditions. If you are comfortable with gelatin capsules, you can buy a bag of empty ones in a health food store and transfer the enzymes to them. Most people just open the capsules. If you are first attempting to " challenge " a food that has been restricted, do one food at a time. It is best to have a designated amount of food so you will be able to first see if the enzymes+food are working. Example: one bowl of cereal, not the entire box or letting the child eat until he chooses to stop. Then start adjusting doses and food amounts. -------------------------------- Hyperness/Stimming Perspective Think of when adults get really involved in solving a problemt. Okay so here are these adults. They sit there and they are staring at the statistics, numbers, problem, whateever. Maybe they are trying to figure out why some ASD kids increase hyperness and in STIMMING while taking enzymes. But I see them sitting there, staring at the statistics, chewing gum or their lips, picking their teeth, tapping or twiddling their pencils, tapping their feet, pacing across the floor, or this is my favorite one, bending all the paperclips a certain way and then lining them up on their desks. Do you get my point here?? What is so bad about kids increasing their stimming?? These researchers are trying to figure out something which DOES NOT MAKE SENSE, they are trying to completely FOCUS their mental energy and apply themselves 100% to figure this out, they need a release of all the confusion and nervous energy, so they STIM. Now let's consider your own child. For the first 8 years of his life (or whatever age they are), you have seen whatever behaviors/difficulties which caused you to pursue a diagnosis for his differences. Maybe he has walked around, no make that " floated " thru, with his nose in a book, seemingly oblivious to his family and surroundings. He LOVES his leggos (or whatever), to the exclusion of everything else. His brother is a fly to swat away because " go away, you bother me " . But now he is taking enzymes and is back " with you " . He no longer floats thru the house in oblivion. He is aware. He plays with his brother now, he is now interested in the pictures his brother draws, maybe even his teacher has noticed big changes. Based on my own personal experience [i am NOT purporting to speak for your child here LOL], I would say that the decrease in hyper and/or stimming etc which may or may not be present when you start enzymes, is because the child basically feels like sh*t for a few days/weeks, things are so d*mn confusing, nothing makes sense anymore, no energy to try to figure out why, so just try to sit back and be an observer and try to figure out what is going on without doing something stupid to attract too much attention to yourself. This may be expressed as withdrawal or regression So now things look better. People are actually INTERESTING, even more so than *GASP* LEGGOS!! Certain concepts and things are not so confusing any more. Well, then I think your child would be doing exactly what the researchers are doing, I will repeat from what I wrote above, substituting " AS children " for the word " researchers " . " These [AS children] are trying to figure out something which DOES NOT MAKE SENSE, they are trying to completely FOCUS their mental energy and apply themselves 100% to figure this out, they need a release of all the confusion and nervous energy, so they STIM. " I would also imagine that not only is it new and different and probably nice for them, but it is also very overwhelming because it is all so new and different, so they revert to what they know best when things get overwhelming, they STIM, and it helps them settle down so they can learn about life again in this new presentation. So why is stimming such a bad thing here? There may be potential peer pressure/teasing, which the child will soon learn to modify stims to be more socially appropriate, because everyone stims, you just have to figure out which ones are acceptable, then the kids if they are young enough [not high school or whatever] will soon forget all the former strangeness of their friend and everything will be just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2002 Report Share Posted February 23, 2002 Minna, Whoa! Thank you for taking the time to send me all that (wealth) of information. That was so nice of you! I am so glad that your son is doing so well on these enzymes. That is awesome! I tried to ask the nurse at a clinic that deals with alternative medicine around here, if she knew about the enzymes, and she wasn't familiar with them. At this time, my daughter IS taking acidiphilus/bifidus (which we had to stop taking because she kept getting yeast rashes which is a shame because I know this helped a little) vitamins, and HHS formula which is meant as a digestive aid. (I wonder if it is along the same lines as the enzymes we are talking about) it has *magnesium oratate, zinc oratate, chromuim picolinate, and then, symphytum officinale(pa free) *pepsin, *lipase, *amylase,*protease, *duodemum tissue extract, *bromelain(ananas comosus), *liver extract, *carica papaya, *glycyrrhiza glabra (DGL), *potassium bicarbonate, *sodium bicarbonate. Plus " special frequencies to assist with this formula. " anyway, I would like to maybe try the enzymes we have been discussing, but I would like to have a doctor around here be familiar with them so they could tell me if these are alright for HER to take, and whether or not I have to add/delete any of the other supplements she is taking. She is very high functioning but she has tactile defensiveness, and extreme hyperactivity (which would be a concern if the enzymes increase this.) She has delays in her small motor skills which we are working on, and in my oppinion poor social skills. (which we are also working on) She also is borderline ODD which we have not figured out if it is due to the autisim, or a condition all on its own. She is also slightly OCD(ish) as her psycholigist puts it. She goes on little sprees where she will have to wear only one certain dress for days on end, etc. She doesn't do any stimming to my knowledge. I wonder if by your description stimming is just a way to release nervous tension. Like I have been know to wiggle my leg(or foot) while sitting at my desk and concentrating on a task. Is that all it is? Only to a much greater degree? We are working on the gfcf diet, and that seems to help " take the edge off " all of the above mentioned symptoms for her. But I have not seen super huge dramatic changes. Thank you again for your response. AmyGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2002 Report Share Posted February 23, 2002 My 15-year-old daughter (moderate) has recently started taking an enzyme aid product from Kirkman Labs and we are already noticing improvement. She is talking in sentences and her teachers, who don't know what she is taking, have remarked about how she is initiating conversation! She also takes Super Nu-Thera, when I can remember to give it to her. I also tried the Melatonin last night and she slept like a baby! I say, if it works, and these things obviously do for her, then it's great! But everyone's body chemistry is different and what works for one possibly wouldn't for another. I think each parent just has to figure that out for themselves, what does and doesn't work. So far we have not had any ill effects from anything. Tamara --- Amy Nardin <amykins98@...> wrote: > Minna, > > Whoa! Thank you for taking the time to send me all > that (wealth) of information. That was so nice of > you! I am so glad that your son is doing so well on > these enzymes. That is awesome! > > I tried to ask the nurse at a clinic that deals > with alternative medicine around here, if she knew > about the enzymes, and she wasn't familiar with > them. At this time, my daughter IS taking > acidiphilus/bifidus (which we had to stop taking > because she kept getting yeast rashes which is a > shame because I know this helped a little) > vitamins, and HHS formula which is meant as a > digestive aid. (I wonder if it is along the same > lines as the enzymes we are talking about) it has > *magnesium oratate, zinc oratate, chromuim > picolinate, and then, symphytum officinale(pa free) > *pepsin, *lipase, *amylase,*protease, *duodemum > tissue extract, *bromelain(ananas comosus), *liver > extract, *carica papaya, *glycyrrhiza glabra (DGL), > *potassium bicarbonate, *sodium bicarbonate. Plus > " special frequencies to assist with this formula. " > > > anyway, I would like to maybe try the enzymes we > have been discussing, but I would like to have a > doctor around here be familiar with them so they > could tell me if these are alright for HER to take, > and whether or not I have to add/delete any of the > other supplements she is taking. > > She is very high functioning but she has tactile > defensiveness, and extreme hyperactivity (which > would be a concern if the enzymes increase this.) > She has delays in her small motor skills which we > are working on, and in my oppinion poor social > skills. (which we are also working on) She also is > borderline ODD which we have not figured out if it > is due to the autisim, or a condition all on its > own. She is also slightly OCD(ish) as her > psycholigist puts it. She goes on little sprees > where she will have to wear only one certain dress > for days on end, etc. She doesn't do any stimming to > my knowledge. I wonder if by your description > stimming is just a way to release nervous tension. > Like I have been know to wiggle my leg(or foot) > while sitting at my desk and concentrating on a > task. Is that all it is? Only to a much greater > degree? > > We are working on the gfcf diet, and that seems to > help " take the edge off " all of the above mentioned > symptoms for her. But I have not seen super huge > dramatic changes. > > Thank you again for your response. > AmyGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer > download : http://explorer.msn.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2002 Report Share Posted February 23, 2002 Amy: If you're in the NY metro area, we are using a doctor who supplies two different kinds of enzymes. He can also address the OCD stuff and other problems. Reply privately. Joan Re: enzymes Minna, Whoa! Thank you for taking the time to send me all that (wealth) of information. That was so nice of you! I am so glad that your son is doing so well on these enzymes. That is awesome! I tried to ask the nurse at a clinic that deals with alternative medicine around here, if she knew about the enzymes, and she wasn't familiar with them. At this time, my daughter IS taking acidiphilus/bifidus (which we had to stop taking because she kept getting yeast rashes which is a shame because I know this helped a little) vitamins, and HHS formula which is meant as a digestive aid. (I wonder if it is along the same lines as the enzymes we are talking about) it has *magnesium oratate, zinc oratate, chromuim picolinate, and then, symphytum officinale(pa free) *pepsin, *lipase, *amylase,*protease, *duodemum tissue extract, *bromelain(ananas comosus), *liver extract, *carica papaya, *glycyrrhiza glabra (DGL), *potassium bicarbonate, *sodium bicarbonate. Plus " special frequencies to assist with this formula. " anyway, I would like to maybe try the enzymes we have been discussing, but I would like to have a doctor around here be familiar with them so they could tell me if these are alright for HER to take, and whether or not I have to add/delete any of the other supplements she is taking. She is very high functioning but she has tactile defensiveness, and extreme hyperactivity (which would be a concern if the enzymes increase this.) She has delays in her small motor skills which we are working on, and in my oppinion poor social skills. (which we are also working on) She also is borderline ODD which we have not figured out if it is due to the autisim, or a condition all on its own. She is also slightly OCD(ish) as her psycholigist puts it. She goes on little sprees where she will have to wear only one certain dress for days on end, etc. She doesn't do any stimming to my knowledge. I wonder if by your description stimming is just a way to release nervous tension. Like I have been know to wiggle my leg(or foot) while sitting at my desk and concentrating on a task. Is that all it is? Only to a much greater degree? We are working on the gfcf diet, and that seems to help " take the edge off " all of the above mentioned symptoms for her. But I have not seen super huge dramatic changes. Thank you again for your response. AmyGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2002 Report Share Posted February 24, 2002 Thanks for all that info on Enzymes . . Re: Re: enzymes > My 15-year-old daughter (moderate) has recently > started taking an enzyme aid product from Kirkman Labs > and we are already noticing improvement. She is > talking in sentences and her teachers, who don't know > what she is taking, have remarked about how she is > initiating conversation! She also takes Super > Nu-Thera, when I can remember to give it to her. I > also tried the Melatonin last night and she slept like > a baby! I say, if it works, and these things > obviously do for her, then it's great! But everyone's > body chemistry is different and what works for one > possibly wouldn't for another. I think each parent > just has to figure that out for themselves, what does > and doesn't work. So far we have not had any ill > effects from anything. > Tamara > --- Amy Nardin <amykins98@...> wrote: > > Minna, > > > > Whoa! Thank you for taking the time to send me all > > that (wealth) of information. That was so nice of > > you! I am so glad that your son is doing so well on > > these enzymes. That is awesome! > > > > I tried to ask the nurse at a clinic that deals > > with alternative medicine around here, if she knew > > about the enzymes, and she wasn't familiar with > > them. At this time, my daughter IS taking > > acidiphilus/bifidus (which we had to stop taking > > because she kept getting yeast rashes which is a > > shame because I know this helped a little) > > vitamins, and HHS formula which is meant as a > > digestive aid. (I wonder if it is along the same > > lines as the enzymes we are talking about) it has > > *magnesium oratate, zinc oratate, chromuim > > picolinate, and then, symphytum officinale(pa free) > > *pepsin, *lipase, *amylase,*protease, *duodemum > > tissue extract, *bromelain(ananas comosus), *liver > > extract, *carica papaya, *glycyrrhiza glabra (DGL), > > *potassium bicarbonate, *sodium bicarbonate. Plus > > " special frequencies to assist with this formula. " > > > > > > anyway, I would like to maybe try the enzymes we > > have been discussing, but I would like to have a > > doctor around here be familiar with them so they > > could tell me if these are alright for HER to take, > > and whether or not I have to add/delete any of the > > other supplements she is taking. > > > > She is very high functioning but she has tactile > > defensiveness, and extreme hyperactivity (which > > would be a concern if the enzymes increase this.) > > She has delays in her small motor skills which we > > are working on, and in my oppinion poor social > > skills. (which we are also working on) She also is > > borderline ODD which we have not figured out if it > > is due to the autisim, or a condition all on its > > own. She is also slightly OCD(ish) as her > > psycholigist puts it. She goes on little sprees > > where she will have to wear only one certain dress > > for days on end, etc. She doesn't do any stimming to > > my knowledge. I wonder if by your description > > stimming is just a way to release nervous tension. > > Like I have been know to wiggle my leg(or foot) > > while sitting at my desk and concentrating on a > > task. Is that all it is? Only to a much greater > > degree? > > > > We are working on the gfcf diet, and that seems to > > help " take the edge off " all of the above mentioned > > symptoms for her. But I have not seen super huge > > dramatic changes. > > > > Thank you again for your response. > > AmyGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer > > download : http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2002 Report Share Posted February 25, 2002 I would like to thank everyone for their oppinions about enzymes. I am considering ordering some online and giving them a them a try. My only concern is that I may mix too many supplements together. She is on a digestive aid, and some special multi-vitamins, and calcium supplements. I would also like to try nystatin, but I heard you need a prescription for it. So, I asked our health food specialist, and he recommended a version they carry. I may try that, too. After I figure out if it is ok to mix all these, of course. ** Joan, I tried to email you privately, but I was unable to, it came back unable to email you. (we live in Michigan so, it would be impracticle for us to use your doctor. But thank you.) If necessary, we will just have to take her back to that alternative medicine clinic we brought her to before. Amy nardin. Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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