Re: Re: Dozen eggs a week now safe? how much omega-3?

[Guest guest]

I ended up not knowing what omega-3 is required after reviewing quite a few articles. I guess there's a req't to control arachidonic acid? But if I eat no sources of AA, my body will make what it needs. Maybe not so for making EPA, so fish oil seems a better bet. But if I have low AA, how much EPA do I need?

Can I not see how much AA I have by using a little niacin? I THINK so. Is it of practical use to KNOW that 100 mg elicits a low response? I think in terms of what I can measure and what I can do. EPA/DHA displaces AA in test.

Is it good to flood the body with EPA for that purpose? I doubt it, because AA has a purpose also. Excess is probably bad.

But we often assume that just because we eat a lot of LA, it will result in AA - I believe a healthy body will regulate that if we don't eat a lot of it. It seems that 11 gms is enough and that's very easy to get. I don't NEED to add egg yolks to get it.

ALA is not nearly so important in my mind as LA, because we do not have tests that verify it is essential or how much we need or how much we store for when we need it. Again, I don't have to use any special foods to get the req't (2 gms).

So anything else is hype.

Surely eggs are nutritious, but how much do we need?

A large egg has .013 18:03, .033 per 100 gms.

A turkey egg has .079 per 100 gms. (not easy to get)

A duck egg has .102 (not easy to get)

A goose egg has .554 (not easy to get)

A quail egg has .044 (lucky for them)

Egg substitute has .184

So why don't I hear the clamor for egg substitute? (for those that want their omega-3s in eggs)

I seem to recall discussing egg substitute with an obese friend in 1976, and I don't recall any warnings, recalls, "tell your doctors if", since then.

And it's competitively priced with whole eggs.

And how much cholesterol do I need to ingest? None as I take it, because the liver makes cholesterol. I can't believe I have an RDA for cholesterol.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From:

Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:47 AM

Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Dozen eggs a week now safe?

If you need more n-3 in your diet their are several whole foods that aregood sources.JR

[Guest guest]

please specify.

everything I've said is founded only in what I've read in texts and journals.

----- Original Message -----

From: freebird5005

Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 11:57 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Dozen eggs a week now safe? how much omega-3?

You make a lot of unfounded assumptions here.. be careful your [wrong]assumptions can turn into [false] beliefs !!> I ended up not knowing what omega-3 is required after reviewingquite a few articles. I guess there's a req't to control arachidonicacid? But if I eat no sources of AA, my body will make what it needs.Maybe not so for making EPA, so fish oil seems a better bet. But if Ihave low AA, how much EPA do I need? > Can I not see how much AA I have by using a little niacin? I THINKso. Is it of practical use to KNOW that 100 mg elicits a low response?I think in terms of what I can measure and what I can do. EPA/DHAdisplaces AA in test. > Is it good to flood the body with EPA for that purpose? I doubt it,because AA has a purpose also. Excess is probably bad. > But we often assume that just because we eat a lot of LA, it willresult in AA - I believe a healthy body will regulate that if we don'teat a lot of it. It seems that 11 gms is enough and that's very easyto get. I don't NEED to add egg yolks to get it. > ALA is not nearly so important in my mind as LA, because we do nothave tests that verify it is essential or how much we need or how muchwe store for when we need it. Again, I don't have to use any specialfoods to get the req't (2 gms). > So anything else is hype. > Surely eggs are nutritious, but how much do we need? > A large egg has .013 18:03, .033 per 100 gms.> A turkey egg has .079 per 100 gms. (not easy to get)> A duck egg has .102 (not easy to get)> A goose egg has .554 (not easy to get)> A quail egg has .044 (lucky for them)> Egg substitute has .184 > > So why don't I hear the clamor for egg substitute? (for those thatwant their omega-3s in eggs)> I seem to recall discussing egg substitute with an obese friend in1976, and I don't recall any warnings, recalls, "tell your doctorsif", since then.> And it's competitively priced with whole eggs. > > And how much cholesterol do I need to ingest? None as I take it,because the liver makes cholesterol. I can't believe I have an RDA forcholesterol. > > Regards. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:47 AM> Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Dozen eggs a week now safe?> > > > If you need more n-3 in your diet their are several whole foodsthat are> good sources.> > JR

[Guest guest]

I see the diff, and agree, but we can hardly know what it is "dealing" with in disease as well as nutritionally.

But the body's use of the LA to make AA, and ALA to make EPA is touted as a reason to add a flax oil supplement, eg. And that I find wanting in the documentation. Looking at the biochem pathways I come easily to the conclusion to use EPA.

But one "revered" CR scientist has an hypothesis against fish oil as in accelerated aging. I have no idea who's right, but I respect his opinion. So I test EPA and it raises my BP, so it failed that test and that's enough for me as an individual. Other than fish oil, I don't know HOW to get EPA reliably.

We also have the concern of ALA in prostate cancer, a much larger fear than pancreatic cancer for males.

And I use the word "fear" in place of risk, odds ratios, etc. Fear ranks CVD, lung cancer, stroke, and then PCa for men. I don't fear CVD or lung cancer, hopefully I'm controlling stroke risk, so I'm working to avoid the PCa in my old age. And that means looking at every supplement critically.

Max Faget ( the envisionary of the shuttle) just died from cancer, always a lean person when I had occasion to see him. I don't know the particulars of his cancer - he was a smoker at one time as I recall. He was 83yo.

I'm saddened but more so for the many of my cohort who passed before my age. What did they do wrong? They had no knowledge of nutrition, for one. They did not eat as if their life depended on it. We had no major influences to use a low fat diet in 1975, eg.

Now when we could use that info, I find much of it controversial in important areas.

Maybe I should go back to evaluating herbs chemicals.

The aspirin/pancreatic cancer fear article is for obese women. CR may stem that fear for women and maybe men too.

Regards

----- Original Message -----

From: freebird5005

Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 12:50 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Dozen eggs a week now safe? how much omega-3?

If that's true Yes that is good star..I was referring to your appeal to vitalism in the form of "the bodymakes what it needs (implication being I don't need to worry 'boutit)..", I think more operationally sound is "The body makes DO with what ithas..."See the diff?? The former is a prescription to stop thinking further,and the latter is a prescription for further thinking !Have a nice day! :B > please specify. > everything I've said is founded only in what I've read in texts andjournals.> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: freebird5005 > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 11:57 AM> Subject: [ ] Re: Dozen eggs a week now safe? how muchomega-3?> > > > You make a lot of unfounded assumptions here.. be careful your [wrong]> assumptions can turn into [false] beliefs !!> > --- In , "jwwright" <jwwright@e...>wrote:> > I ended up not knowing what omega-3 is required after reviewing> quite a few articles. I guess there's a req't to control arachidonic> acid? But if I eat no sources of AA, my body will make what it needs.> Maybe not so for making EPA, so fish oil seems a better bet. But if I> have low AA, how much EPA do I need? > > Can I not see how much AA I have by using a little niacin? I THINK> so. Is it of practical use to KNOW that 100 mg elicits a low response?> I think in terms of what I can measure and what I can do. EPA/DHA> displaces AA in test. > > Is it good to flood the body with EPA for that purpose? I doubt it,> because AA has a purpose also. Excess is probably bad. > > But we often assume that just because we eat a lot of LA, it will> result in AA - I believe a healthy body will regulate that if we don't> eat a lot of it. It seems that 11 gms is enough and that's very easy> to get. I don't NEED to add egg yolks to get it. > > ALA is not nearly so important in my mind as LA, because we do not> have tests that verify it is essential or how much we need or how much> we store for when we need it. Again, I don't have to use any special> foods to get the req't (2 gms). > > So anything else is hype. > > Surely eggs are nutritious, but how much do we need? > > A large egg has .013 18:03, .033 per 100 gms.> > A turkey egg has .079 per 100 gms. (not easyto get)> > A duck egg has .102 (not easy to get)> > A goose egg has .554 (not easy to get)> > A quail egg has .044 (lucky for them)> > Egg substitute has .184 > > > > So why don't I hear the clamor for egg substitute? (for those that> want their omega-3s in eggs)> > I seem to recall discussing egg substitute with an obese friend in> 1976, and I don't recall any warnings, recalls, "tell your doctors> if", since then.> > And it's competitively priced with whole eggs. > > > > And how much cholesterol do I need to ingest? None as I take it,> because the liver makes cholesterol. I can't believe I have an RDA for> cholesterol. > > > > Regards. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:47 AM> > Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Dozen eggs a week now safe?> > > > > > > > If you need more n-3 in your diet their are several whole foods> that are> > good sources.> > > > JR

[Guest guest]

Well heart failure is listed on a lot of death certificates even though death may have been exacerbated by cancer, emphysema, etc.

That may well be true to some extent. There is the stated problem of choosing the right parents, but it seems that if we know that and do the right diet and exercise, then we have to watch out for sudden death, arrhythmia. Those can be somewhat controlled with pacemakers, drugs. EPA is suggested for SCD. Fish is suggested for arrthymia.

I am reminded of a dr friend whose father died at 46 yo, so he was determined to avoid that and playing tennis at 46yo he succumbed. Another dr said "don't play tennis". That was 30yrs ago. But I have another dr friend with similar background who is alive at 80 yo. Diet may play a VERY large part and we have some evidence for that.

Fortunately I have a bro 80yo still actively working, even though our parents died at ~75yo, both from ischemic dementia. I admit to being biased toward a low fat diet having found it lowers my BP.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: freebird5005

Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 2:09 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Dozen eggs a week now safe? how much omega-3?

I couldn't agree more in general !!Is this true: You have done smthg very wrong if you die from CVD??I refer to vast majority of cases.. [not to those few hapless soulswith mortal genetic defects]IOW, NO ONE SHOULD DIE FROM HEART DISEASES BASED ON WHAT WE KNOW RIGHTNOW!!!RIGHT??!!> I see the diff, and agree, but we can hardly know what it is"dealing" with in disease as well as nutritionally. > But the body's use of the LA to make AA, and ALA to make EPA istouted as a reason to add a flax oil supplement, eg. And that I findwanting in the documentation. Looking at the biochem pathways I comeeasily to the conclusion to use EPA. > But one "revered" CR scientist has an hypothesis against fish oil asin accelerated aging. I have no idea who's right, but I respect hisopinion. So I test EPA and it raises my BP, so it failed that test andthat's enough for me as an individual. Other than fish oil, I don'tknow HOW to get EPA reliably. > > We also have the concern of ALA in prostate cancer, a much largerfear than pancreatic cancer for males. > And I use the word "fear" in place of risk, odds ratios, etc. Fearranks CVD, lung cancer, stroke, and then PCa for men. I don't fear CVDor lung cancer, hopefully I'm controlling stroke risk, so I'm workingto avoid the PCa in my old age. And that means looking at everysupplement critically.> > Max Faget ( the envisionary of the shuttle) just died from cancer,always a lean person when I had occasion to see him. I don't know theparticulars of his cancer - he was a smoker at one time as I recall. He was 83yo. > I'm saddened but more so for the many of my cohort who passed beforemy age. What did they do wrong? They had no knowledge of nutrition,for one. They did not eat as if their life depended on it. We had nomajor influences to use a low fat diet in 1975, eg.> Now when we could use that info, I find much of it controversial inimportant areas. > > Maybe I should go back to evaluating herbs chemicals. > > The aspirin/pancreatic cancer fear article is for obese women. CRmay stem that fear for women and maybe men too.> > Regards

[Guest guest]

I share your frustration. Medical/nutrition decisions are not simple.

The one thing I'm reasonably sure of is I have to eat less and get smaller to survive longer.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: freebird5005

Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 5:40 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Dozen eggs a week now safe? how much omega-3?

jee sus christ..> Well heart failure is listed on a lot of death certificates eventhough death may have been exacerbated by cancer, emphysema, etc. > > That may well be true to some extent. There is the stated problem ofchoosing the right parents, but it seems that if we know that and dothe right diet and exercise, then we have to watch out for suddendeath, arrhythmia. Those can be somewhat controlled with pacemakers,drugs. EPA is suggested for SCD. Fish is suggested for arrthymia. > > I am reminded of a dr friend whose father died at 46 yo, so he wasdetermined to avoid that and playing tennis at 46yo he succumbed.Another dr said "don't play tennis". That was 30yrs ago. But I haveanother dr friend with similar background who is alive at 80 yo. Dietmay play a VERY large part and we have some evidence for that. > > Fortunately I have a bro 80yo still actively working, even thoughour parents died at ~75yo, both from ischemic dementia. I admit tobeing biased toward a low fat diet having found it lowers my BP. > > Regards.