Re: The Grey Zone (was extreme calorie restriction)

[Guest guest]

Hi :

Thank you. A VERY illuminating post. I nominate it for 'Post of the

Month'!

Is it possible that some of the symptoms you describe resulted from a

deficiency of one or more micronutrients, rather than a lower caloric

intake?

I am thinking specifically of B vitamins, which are known to be very

very important for mental health. You mention a drop in bread

consumption, and whole grain bread does contain quite a lot of B

vitamins IIRC.

Again thank you. Very helpful input.

Rodney.

>

> In response to recent comments, here is my extreme CR experience.

>

> " If anything, they point to the compelling need for CR restraint.

> High on their list of potential problems with extreme CR

> practitioners are psychiatric problems "

>

> In reaction to the above comment, I will share a few of my

> experiences on 1500 calories for five months, me being a five foot

> eleven male age 33 when this happened.

>

> THE GREY ZONE

>

> Had restricted calories to two thousand a day for the past eleven

> years after reading one of Dr. Walfords books, then early this

> year 2004, due to a change of routine I did less walking and put

on

> a stone in weight going from nine stone twelve to ten stone eight.

> Eventually cut calories to 1500 and weight went down a pound a week

> until I reached nine stone four where the weight loss slowed (I

> achieved the weight loss by removing bread from my diet, I had been

> overdosing on that too much). This all happened over a few months

> and this is what it did to my emotion/mental state:

>

> At first obviously hungry more but this passed as weight dropped,

> but immediately my sex drive was reduced by 70% (just vanished

after

> the first week) and I needed aprox one and half hours less sleep.

> But none of this concerned me and I just got along with things, but

> after a further two weeks I noticed I was changing. First I

> nolonger saw women as attractive anymore they were just women, some

> wore clothes that would normally be seen by me as arousing but now

> the clothes were just a covering, it meant nothing. I felt no

> attraction. I would see curves, legs, long dark hair, all things

> that would normally set of a WOW feeling in my mind, but it was all

> gone. Dead. I felt nothing, the trees they passed were of the same

> interest to me.

>

> This was so unusual I sat in town during spring, watching people go

> past and I felt more alien as if I were no longer a part of that

> world. I no longer felt male, I could not understand why other men

> on the benches followed attractive women with their eyes, I could

> not see the point anymore. The whole concept of sex just seemed

> animalistic and pointless, would rather listen to some dark music.

>

> During a trip to the library I picked up a new Anne Rice book,

> usually dark but sensual. It did not interest me anymore, the

> sensuality bored me. So instead I picked up an author I use to

read

> when younger (Dean Koontz) and suddenly found the darkness without

> the sensuality more satisfying. So those books became my reading

> matter. But the same happened with music, I normally listen to a

> whole range from the Beatles to gothic to slipknot. But now I

could

> not face the happy tuneful songs and only listened to the gloomiest

> and darkest stuff.

> I felt less like socialising, I could no longer see the point of

> having a drink with friends, I lost interest in sport and exercise,

> I spent too much time watching the news which was full death and

> war. I just slipped into a grey zone as if a veil had been pulled

> over my eyes, as if I were dying.

>

> But probably more disturbing than that was I began to think what

was

> the point of life, why look after my health, why calorie restrict,

> who wants to live to a hundred, just endless years of greyness. I

> HAD NEVER HAD THESE THOUGHTS IN MY LIFE and began to realise I was

> depressed.

>

> Finally I sensed it must be the calories, so started eating a lot

of

> cheese and bread to gain some weight and calories quickly and

within

> one week the veil lifted, I became more sociable, my sex drive

> returned, the world was colourful again, I wanted happy music, Anne

> Rice was brought back, Dean Koontz had to go, I started using

> internet more, got some new interest, did more exercise and

> genuinely felt as if I had come out of a long sickness and had

> survived.

>

> Now I am maintaining around 1800-190 calories and feel normal,

happy

> and " Male " again. So me at 1500 calories restriction 40% or 50%,

> depending what the norm is, is dangerous for mental health. So it

> seems that 30% is probably the end point for humans, or at least

for

> me, anymore and the mental changes will probably kill you earlier

in

> life than if you had eaten more calories. Imagine if I had gone

> into the future on 1500 calories, would I really have had a long

> life if my mind was so depressed. No. There is plenty of research

> showing you need a healthy mind and body.

>

> Also found my bones started to ache for no apparent reason, that

> cleared up when back to 1800 cals.

>

> The moral of this tale is, " be wary of the Grey Zone, it means you

> have gone too far. "

>

> ...

[Guest guest]

I liked it too for 's courage and frankness in revealing a personal

struggle he had. It's now in the " Extreme vs.Moderate " file.

Rodney: how do you square (what I assume is) a recommendation for whole

grain consumption below with former posts about starch?

on 10/27/2004 11:04 AM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

>

> Hi :

>

> Thank you. A VERY illuminating post. I nominate it for 'Post of the

> Month'!

>

> Is it possible that some of the symptoms you describe resulted from a

> deficiency of one or more micronutrients, rather than a lower caloric

> intake?

>

> I am thinking specifically of B vitamins, which are known to be very

> very important for mental health. You mention a drop in bread

> consumption, and whole grain bread does contain quite a lot of B

> vitamins IIRC.

>

> Again thank you. Very helpful input.

>

> Rodney.

>

>

>>

>> In response to recent comments, here is my extreme CR experience.

>>

>> " If anything, they point to the compelling need for CR restraint.

>> High on their list of potential problems with extreme CR

>> practitioners are psychiatric problems "

>>

>> In reaction to the above comment, I will share a few of my

>> experiences on 1500 calories for five months, me being a five foot

>> eleven male age 33 when this happened.

>>

>> THE GREY ZONE

>>

>> Had restricted calories to two thousand a day for the past eleven

>> years after reading one of Dr. Walfords books, then early this

>> year 2004, due to a change of routine I did less walking and put

> on

>> a stone in weight going from nine stone twelve to ten stone eight.

>> Eventually cut calories to 1500 and weight went down a pound a week

>> until I reached nine stone four where the weight loss slowed (I

>> achieved the weight loss by removing bread from my diet, I had been

>> overdosing on that too much). This all happened over a few months

>> and this is what it did to my emotion/mental state:

>>

>> At first obviously hungry more but this passed as weight dropped,

>> but immediately my sex drive was reduced by 70% (just vanished

> after

>> the first week) and I needed aprox one and half hours less sleep.

>> But none of this concerned me and I just got along with things, but

>> after a further two weeks I noticed I was changing. First I

>> nolonger saw women as attractive anymore they were just women, some

>> wore clothes that would normally be seen by me as arousing but now

>> the clothes were just a covering, it meant nothing. I felt no

>> attraction. I would see curves, legs, long dark hair, all things

>> that would normally set of a WOW feeling in my mind, but it was all

>> gone. Dead. I felt nothing, the trees they passed were of the same

>> interest to me.

>>

>> This was so unusual I sat in town during spring, watching people go

>> past and I felt more alien as if I were no longer a part of that

>> world. I no longer felt male, I could not understand why other men

>> on the benches followed attractive women with their eyes, I could

>> not see the point anymore. The whole concept of sex just seemed

>> animalistic and pointless, would rather listen to some dark music.

>>

>> During a trip to the library I picked up a new Anne Rice book,

>> usually dark but sensual. It did not interest me anymore, the

>> sensuality bored me. So instead I picked up an author I use to

> read

>> when younger (Dean Koontz) and suddenly found the darkness without

>> the sensuality more satisfying. So those books became my reading

>> matter. But the same happened with music, I normally listen to a

>> whole range from the Beatles to gothic to slipknot. But now I

> could

>> not face the happy tuneful songs and only listened to the gloomiest

>> and darkest stuff.

>> I felt less like socialising, I could no longer see the point of

>> having a drink with friends, I lost interest in sport and exercise,

>> I spent too much time watching the news which was full death and

>> war. I just slipped into a grey zone as if a veil had been pulled

>> over my eyes, as if I were dying.

>>

>> But probably more disturbing than that was I began to think what

> was

>> the point of life, why look after my health, why calorie restrict,

>> who wants to live to a hundred, just endless years of greyness. I

>> HAD NEVER HAD THESE THOUGHTS IN MY LIFE and began to realise I was

>> depressed.

>>

>> Finally I sensed it must be the calories, so started eating a lot

> of

>> cheese and bread to gain some weight and calories quickly and

> within

>> one week the veil lifted, I became more sociable, my sex drive

>> returned, the world was colourful again, I wanted happy music, Anne

>> Rice was brought back, Dean Koontz had to go, I started using

>> internet more, got some new interest, did more exercise and

>> genuinely felt as if I had come out of a long sickness and had

>> survived.

>>

>> Now I am maintaining around 1800-190 calories and feel normal,

> happy

>> and " Male " again. So me at 1500 calories restriction 40% or 50%,

>> depending what the norm is, is dangerous for mental health. So it

>> seems that 30% is probably the end point for humans, or at least

> for

>> me, anymore and the mental changes will probably kill you earlier

> in

>> life than if you had eaten more calories. Imagine if I had gone

>> into the future on 1500 calories, would I really have had a long

>> life if my mind was so depressed. No. There is plenty of research

>> showing you need a healthy mind and body.

>>

>> Also found my bones started to ache for no apparent reason, that

>> cleared up when back to 1800 cals.

>>

>> The moral of this tale is, " be wary of the Grey Zone, it means you

>> have gone too far. "

>>

>> ...

[Guest guest]

thanks Rodney, should not be B'vits though as did take a basic vit

supplement (centrum) plus an additional b-vit at 3xRDA through-out

that period and last 10 years. Was having less fiber, but doubt

that would have done much though for my mental state or would it? -

never researched that area. (fiber would have been around 30g for

the Grey Zone period). probably a touch less than now. - but saying

that I have been living off cheese a bit lately to work out allergy

problem and that hasn't caused a Grey Zone episode.

richard ...

[Guest guest]

Hi Francesca:

Was not recommending *anything* in that post. Just trying to suggest

possible explanations for 's experience other than fewer

calories.

But since you raise the issue, the starch itself does not contain any

micronutrients, but white flour does have vitamins - I am not sure if

that is because they are added ('enriched') or contains them

naturally alongside the starch. But certainly the bran and germ (the

non-white bread stuff) contain B vitamins. Since noted his

symptoms had appeared after he had reduced his bread consumption it

occurred to me this might be the cause.

I *am* confident that if white bread is as awful as it is often

stated to be around here, then whole grain bread must be 82% as awful

as white bread.

But remember it is not me who says white bread is awful. It appears

to be the conventional wisdom around here. I just point out the

apparent irrationality of thinking that white bread can be just

awful, and whole grain bread just wonderful at the same time, when

the latter contains 82% the exact same stuff as white bread.

I am also confident that the starch itself is not useful beyond its

caloric content. ( Falcon would have probably survived

if he had had more starch available).

Rodney.

PS: Of course I can also be wrong!

> >>

> >> In response to recent comments, here is my extreme CR experience.

> >>

> >> " If anything, they point to the compelling need for CR restraint.

> >> High on their list of potential problems with extreme CR

> >> practitioners are psychiatric problems "

> >>

> >> In reaction to the above comment, I will share a few of my

> >> experiences on 1500 calories for five months, me being a five

foot

> >> eleven male age 33 when this happened.

> >>

> >> THE GREY ZONE

> >>

> >> Had restricted calories to two thousand a day for the past

eleven

> >> years after reading one of Dr. Walfords books, then early this

> >> year 2004, due to a change of routine I did less walking and put

> > on

> >> a stone in weight going from nine stone twelve to ten stone

eight.

> >> Eventually cut calories to 1500 and weight went down a pound a

week

> >> until I reached nine stone four where the weight loss slowed (I

> >> achieved the weight loss by removing bread from my diet, I had

been

> >> overdosing on that too much). This all happened over a few

months

> >> and this is what it did to my emotion/mental state:

> >>

> >> At first obviously hungry more but this passed as weight dropped,

> >> but immediately my sex drive was reduced by 70% (just vanished

> > after

> >> the first week) and I needed aprox one and half hours less sleep.

> >> But none of this concerned me and I just got along with things,

but

> >> after a further two weeks I noticed I was changing. First I

> >> nolonger saw women as attractive anymore they were just women,

some

> >> wore clothes that would normally be seen by me as arousing but

now

> >> the clothes were just a covering, it meant nothing. I felt no

> >> attraction. I would see curves, legs, long dark hair, all things

> >> that would normally set of a WOW feeling in my mind, but it was

all

> >> gone. Dead. I felt nothing, the trees they passed were of the

same

> >> interest to me.

> >>

> >> This was so unusual I sat in town during spring, watching people

go

> >> past and I felt more alien as if I were no longer a part of that

> >> world. I no longer felt male, I could not understand why other

men

> >> on the benches followed attractive women with their eyes, I could

> >> not see the point anymore. The whole concept of sex just seemed

> >> animalistic and pointless, would rather listen to some dark

music.

> >>

> >> During a trip to the library I picked up a new Anne Rice book,

> >> usually dark but sensual. It did not interest me anymore, the

> >> sensuality bored me. So instead I picked up an author I use to

> > read

> >> when younger (Dean Koontz) and suddenly found the darkness

without

> >> the sensuality more satisfying. So those books became my reading

> >> matter. But the same happened with music, I normally listen to a

> >> whole range from the Beatles to gothic to slipknot. But now I

> > could

> >> not face the happy tuneful songs and only listened to the

gloomiest

> >> and darkest stuff.

> >> I felt less like socialising, I could no longer see the point of

> >> having a drink with friends, I lost interest in sport and

exercise,

> >> I spent too much time watching the news which was full death and

> >> war. I just slipped into a grey zone as if a veil had been

pulled

> >> over my eyes, as if I were dying.

> >>

> >> But probably more disturbing than that was I began to think what

> > was

> >> the point of life, why look after my health, why calorie

restrict,

> >> who wants to live to a hundred, just endless years of greyness.

I

> >> HAD NEVER HAD THESE THOUGHTS IN MY LIFE and began to realise I

was

> >> depressed.

> >>

> >> Finally I sensed it must be the calories, so started eating a lot

> > of

> >> cheese and bread to gain some weight and calories quickly and

> > within

> >> one week the veil lifted, I became more sociable, my sex drive

> >> returned, the world was colourful again, I wanted happy music,

Anne

> >> Rice was brought back, Dean Koontz had to go, I started using

> >> internet more, got some new interest, did more exercise and

> >> genuinely felt as if I had come out of a long sickness and had

> >> survived.

> >>

> >> Now I am maintaining around 1800-190 calories and feel normal,

> > happy

> >> and " Male " again. So me at 1500 calories restriction 40% or 50%,

> >> depending what the norm is, is dangerous for mental health. So

it

> >> seems that 30% is probably the end point for humans, or at least

> > for

> >> me, anymore and the mental changes will probably kill you earlier

> > in

> >> life than if you had eaten more calories. Imagine if I had gone

> >> into the future on 1500 calories, would I really have had a long

> >> life if my mind was so depressed. No. There is plenty of research

> >> showing you need a healthy mind and body.

> >>

> >> Also found my bones started to ache for no apparent reason, that

> >> cleared up when back to 1800 cals.

> >>

> >> The moral of this tale is, " be wary of the Grey Zone, it means

you

> >> have gone too far. "

> >>

> >> ...

[Guest guest]

Agree.

We know very little about the human body even in the medical/nutrition world, much less in the CR domain.

The bone pain, I've had (like growing pains) but I don't relate it to CR, rather manual labor.

The libido at your age would be something I'd consult a urol just to be sure. That can happen not on CR.

My H-B calc for your age/weight is higher than1500 kcals.

for 135#, 71 inches BMR is 1584. Add about 200 for routine up-and-around = 1784.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: rwalkerad1970

Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:58 AM

Subject: [ ] The Grey Zone (was extreme calorie restriction)

In response to recent comments, here is my extreme CR experience. "If anything, they point to the compelling need for CR restraint. High on their list of potential problems with extreme CR practitioners are psychiatric problems"In reaction to the above comment, I will share a few of my experiences on 1500 calories for five months, me being a five foot eleven male age 33 when this happened.THE GREY ZONEHad restricted calories to two thousand a day for the past eleven years after reading one of Dr. Walfords books, then early this year 2004, due to a change of routine I did less walking and put on a stone in weight going from nine stone twelve to ten stone eight. Eventually cut calories to 1500 and weight went down a pound a week until I reached nine stone four where the weight loss slowed (I achieved the weight loss by removing bread from my diet, I had been overdosing on that too much). This all happened over a few months and this is what it did to my emotion/mental state:At first obviously hungry more but this passed as weight dropped, but immediately my sex drive was reduced by 70% (just vanished after the first week) and I needed aprox one and half hours less sleep. But none of this concerned me and I just got along with things, but after a further two weeks I noticed I was changing. First I nolonger saw women as attractive anymore they were just women, some wore clothes that would normally be seen by me as arousing but now the clothes were just a covering, it meant nothing. I felt no attraction. I would see curves, legs, long dark hair, all things that would normally set of a WOW feeling in my mind, but it was all gone. Dead. I felt nothing, the trees they passed were of the same interest to me.This was so unusual I sat in town during spring, watching people go past and I felt more alien as if I were no longer a part of that world. I no longer felt male, I could not understand why other men on the benches followed attractive women with their eyes, I could not see the point anymore. The whole concept of sex just seemed animalistic and pointless, would rather listen to some dark music.During a trip to the library I picked up a new Anne Rice book, usually dark but sensual. It did not interest me anymore, the sensuality bored me. So instead I picked up an author I use to read when younger (Dean Koontz) and suddenly found the darkness without the sensuality more satisfying. So those books became my reading matter. But the same happened with music, I normally listen to a whole range from the Beatles to gothic to slipknot. But now I could not face the happy tuneful songs and only listened to the gloomiest and darkest stuff. I felt less like socialising, I could no longer see the point of having a drink with friends, I lost interest in sport and exercise, I spent too much time watching the news which was full death and war. I just slipped into a grey zone as if a veil had been pulled over my eyes, as if I were dying.But probably more disturbing than that was I began to think what was the point of life, why look after my health, why calorie restrict, who wants to live to a hundred, just endless years of greyness. I HAD NEVER HAD THESE THOUGHTS IN MY LIFE and began to realise I was depressed. Finally I sensed it must be the calories, so started eating a lot of cheese and bread to gain some weight and calories quickly and within one week the veil lifted, I became more sociable, my sex drive returned, the world was colourful again, I wanted happy music, Anne Rice was brought back, Dean Koontz had to go, I started using internet more, got some new interest, did more exercise and genuinely felt as if I had come out of a long sickness and had survived.Now I am maintaining around 1800-190 calories and feel normal, happy and "Male" again. So me at 1500 calories restriction 40% or 50%, depending what the norm is, is dangerous for mental health. So it seems that 30% is probably the end point for humans, or at least for me, anymore and the mental changes will probably kill you earlier in life than if you had eaten more calories. Imagine if I had gone into the future on 1500 calories, would I really have had a long life if my mind was so depressed. No. There is plenty of research showing you need a healthy mind and body.Also found my bones started to ache for no apparent reason, that cleared up when back to 1800 cals.The moral of this tale is, "be wary of the Grey Zone, it means you have gone too far." ...

[Guest guest]

The bone pain, I've had (like growing pains) but I don't relate it

to CR, rather manual labor. >>> no idea what growing pains feel

like, cannot remember having them, the CR/greyzone pains were an

ache like when you over exercise a muscle and little shooting pains,

all in legs and legs are where most of my muscle is, but problem

vanished now my calories are back up.

The libido at your age would be something I'd consult a urol just to

be sure. >>Libido now very normal, to the point where sometimes I

could do with it being a little lower, with age it has also declined

a little, presume that is normal though.

My H-B calc for your age/weight is higher than1500 kcals.

for 135#, 71 inches BMR is 1584. Add about 200 for routine up-and-

around = 1784. >>> was thinking that 1800 sounds best to keep my

BMI around 18.5 and your calculation fits that nicely, thanks saves

me a job looking that up.

...

[Guest guest]

I wholly agree with Rodney. Fascinating & very helpful. As a side

note, I wondered whether nitric oxide synthesis/activity has a hand in

this... Jeff wrote about nitric oxide wrt vascular impact & affect on

libido:

( /message/15327 )

Incidentally, diet very CLEARLY impacts my libido. Never positive which

is predominate factor for lowering libido: it's either too many

calories, or too many carbs, or too many " wrong " carbs... I only know

when I manage all of these factors libido is greatly enhanced after 1 or

2 days.

I have definitely noticed a " low " mood on the day after meal(s) with

foods that I'm not supposed to eat due to intolerance (e.g. gluten).

Fortunately, my testing of this is rare these days. It was quite a

while I picked up on this.

Rodney wrote:

>Thank you. A VERY illuminating post. I nominate it for 'Post of the Month'!

>

>Is it possible that some of the symptoms you describe resulted from a

deficiency of one or more micronutrients, rather than a lower caloric

>intake?

>

>I am thinking specifically of B vitamins, which are known to be very very

important for mental health. You mention a drop in bread consumption, and whole

grain bread does contain quite a lot of B vitamins IIRC.

>

>Again thank you. Very helpful input.

>

>

[Guest guest]

A question for below:

>>>

-- In , " rwalkerad1970 "

<rwalkerad1970@y...> wrote:

>

> In response to recent comments, here is my extreme CR experience.

>

> " If anything, they point to the compelling need for CR restraint.

> High on their list of potential problems with extreme CR

> practitioners are psychiatric problems "

>

>>>

In Message 15527, I suggested that to protect the brain, it might not

advisable to get the Percent of Body fat below 6% for men (which is

the minimum of the " athletes " range, (14% for women)).

The average human brain weighs about 1,300 to 1,400 grams

(http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/facts.html). At 50% fat this

is 1300g*0.5/(454g/lb) = 1.43 lb of fat just in the brain. Myelin,

the protective sheath that covers communicating neurons, is

composed of 30% protein and 70% fat.

Fat is needed by the body to maintain not only the brain and nerves,

but to create new cell membranes. Phospholipids and cholesterol are

the principal components of nearly all cell membranes. The backbone of

a phospholipid is the same glycerol molecule that forms the backbone

of triglycerides. But instead of 3 fatty acids attached to glycerol, a

phospholipid consists of 2 fatty acids and a phosphoric acid compound.

(See picture of Phospholipids in Cell Membranes at

http://www.benbest.com/health/essfat.html)

At the point where your brain is not working (the GRAY ZONE) due to

caloric restriction, the amount of fat in the body must be so low that

it is stealing fat from the brain. The " bone pains " could also be a

sign of nerve deterioration, rather than of something wrong with the

bones.

,

I would like to know your percent of Body Fat. You are probably at

the minimum of what is safe, and it would be good for all of us to

know what that minimum is.

Tony

[Guest guest]

" I would like to know your percent of Body Fat. You are probably at

the minimum of what is safe, and it would be good for all of us to

know what that minimum is. "

is there any way I can work out body fat without use of special

weighing scales - a none-technical way. At greyzone I cannot pinch

much stomach fat, at current weight (about 9 stone 12 I can manage

to pinch an inch on stomach and maybe half an inch on ribs (this is

from sitting down position). I like this current weight and have

maintained it for much of my life (for 18 years so it seems safe).

Grey zone weight was low nine stones.

...(got to go now, sleep - just past 11:00 pm here.)

[Guest guest]

Hi :

OK. Give us the following data and we can calculate a fairly good

approximation of your BF% - using the method that the US Navy uses:

Height

Neck circumference

Body circumference at navel level

With respect to the last two: You want to find the smallest

circumference with the tape taught BUT NOT TIGHT - no skin wrinkling

caused by the tape. As regards the neck, you may have to move the

tape up and down quite a bit to find the smallest fit. The tape in

this case will be sloping downwards toward the front below the adams

apple.

The formula is:

86.01 x logbase10(navel - neck) - 70.041 x logbase10(height) + 36.76

Rodney.

>

> " I would like to know your percent of Body Fat. You are probably at

> the minimum of what is safe, and it would be good for all of us to

> know what that minimum is. "

>

> is there any way I can work out body fat without use of special

> weighing scales - a none-technical way. At greyzone I cannot pinch

> much stomach fat, at current weight (about 9 stone 12 I can manage

> to pinch an inch on stomach and maybe half an inch on ribs (this is

> from sitting down position). I like this current weight and have

> maintained it for much of my life (for 18 years so it seems safe).

> Grey zone weight was low nine stones.

>

> ...(got to go now, sleep - just past 11:00 pm here.)

[Guest guest]

using those calculations given and typed in on tonys website

(http://www.scientificpsychic.com/fitness/diet.html) I am currently

five foot eleven, 136 pounds, 29 inch waist at navel and 14 inch

neck giving a body fat of 8.5% and BMI 19.0 (safe I hope) - guessing

slightly at my lowest grey zone weight and waist would have given me

a body-fat of around 5.5%.

richard ...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/27/04 2:19:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, citpeks@... writes:

But instead of 3 fatty acids attached to glycerol, a

phospholipid consists of 2 fatty acids and a phosphoric acid compound.

(See picture of Phospholipids in Cell Membranes at

http://www.benbest.com/health/essfat.html)

you might like this site, almost like an online textbook from a biochem prof:

http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/lipid-synthesis.html#phospholipids

--

Ken

[Guest guest]

>> you might like this site, almost like an online textbook from a biochem prof:http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/lipid-synthesis.html#phospholipids

I actully studied with him and also taught nutrition to the med students there back in the mid 90s.

Its a satelite school of IU.

Jeff