RE: Re: Adorable grains/legumes.

[Guest guest]

My favorite legumes: Chick peas/garbanzo beans, peanuts.

My favorite grains: Oats, (buckwheat- not really a grain).

Spices: cinnamon, curry spices.

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:32:48 EDT, bernadettepawlik@...

<bernadettepawlik@...> wrote:

> I know that nutritionally there are some grains which are better than

> others, but I'm wondering if based upon experience, CRONers find some grains

> and/or legume more tasty than others.

>

> And, if there are simple spices that some of your find make grains/legumes

> more yummy.

>

> Bernadette, who don't know nuthin' about science, but likes to eat

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know how these compare with other legumes, but my favorite these

days is Chana Dal (in chick pea family)... I can eat as a sweet breakfast

cereal, or spice it up as a side dish, or will sweeten as desert. I find

it helpful for satiety & flavor. Was based on this article:

http://www.mendosa.com/chanadal.html

The Duke web site shows nutritional analysis & antioxidant activity.

http://sun.ars-grin.gov:8080/npgspub/xsql/duke/plantdisp.xsql?taxon=258

(from Jim Duke web site)

bernadettepawlik@... wrote:

I know that nutritionally there are some grains

which are better than others, but I'm wondering if based upon experience,

CRONers find some grains and/or legume more tasty than others.

And, if there are simple spices that some of your find make grains/legumes

more yummy.

Bernadette, who don't know nuthin' about science, but likes to eat

[Guest guest]

Yes, thanks. I've read quite a bit about Chana Dal, but I've never

had any (not readily available locally, AFAIK). I may have to seek it

out more assiduously!

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:33:50 -0400, apricot85 <apricot85@...> wrote:

> I don't know how these compare with other legumes, but my favorite these

> days is Chana Dal (in chick pea family)... I can eat as a sweet

> breakfast cereal, or spice it up as a side dish, or will sweeten as

> desert. I find it helpful for satiety & flavor. Was based on this

> article:

> http://www.mendosa.com/chanadal.html

> The Duke web site shows nutritional analysis & antioxidant activity.

> http://sun.ars-grin.gov:8080/npgspub/xsql/duke/plantdisp.xsql?taxon=258

> (from Jim Duke web site)

>

> bernadettepawlik@... wrote:

>

> > I know that nutritionally there are some grains which are better than

> > others, but I'm wondering if based upon experience, CRONers find some

> > grains and/or legume more tasty than others.

> >

> > And, if there are simple spices that some of your find make

> > grains/legumes more yummy.

> >

> > Bernadette, who don't know nuthin' about science, but likes to eat

> >

[Guest guest]

Quinoa is another non-grain " grain " .

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:47:57 -0000, Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hi Bernadette:

>

> Also it has been posted here that 'quinoa' is a grain that is one of

> the few vegetable sources of all the essential amino acids. Never

> had any, but I have been looking for it for a while.

>

> Rodney.

>

>

>

>

> >

> > > I know that nutritionally there are some grains which are better

> than

> > > others, but I'm wondering if based upon experience, CRONers find

> some

> > > grains and/or legume more tasty than others.

> > >

> > > And, if there are simple spices that some of your find make

> > > grains/legumes more yummy.

> > >

> > > Bernadette, who don't know nuthin' about science, but likes to eat

> > >

[Guest guest]

I get mine from local Indian Spice store. But this week, I found it at

Giant in the isle for international foods. Giant price was 2 times

higher than the India store.

I agree with Mike's explanation & about the low glycemic index. The low

GI index was what encouraged me to try Chana Dal. I really like the

flavors of spices that I've tried in some Indian dishes.... am working

on trying to duplicate on my own. Flavorful.

Dowling wrote:

>Yes, thanks. I've read quite a bit about Chana Dal, but I've never had any

(not readily available locally, AFAIK). I may have to seek it out more

assiduously!

>

>

>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:33:50 -0400, apricot85 <apricot85@...> wrote:

>

>

>>I don't know how these compare with other legumes, but my favorite these days

is Chana Dal (in chick pea family)... I can eat as a sweet breakfast cereal, or

spice it up as a side dish, or will sweeten as desert. I find it helpful for

satiety & flavor. Was based on this article:

>>http://www.mendosa.com/chanadal.html

>>The Duke web site shows nutritional analysis & antioxidant activity.

>>http://sun.ars-grin.gov:8080/npgspub/xsql/duke/plantdisp.xsql?taxon=258

>>(from Jim Duke web site)

>>

[Guest guest]

Bob's Red Mill sells Chana Dal, as well as many other whole grain

products (including the difficult to obtain unhulled buckwheat!)

I'll have to order some and give it a try!

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:17:09 -0000, Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hi :

>

> What is a non-grain grain? (I thought I knew what a grain was, but

> perhaps not if I don't know what a non-grain grain is?) So, 'what is

> a grain?' perhaps should be added to the list of questions. Also,

> what is the definition of 'cereal'? Is it different from 'grain'?

> If so how? My dictionary says cereal is an edible grain - but what

> would my dictionary know about such things? So does that mean if

> they aren't called cereals then they aren't edible? What is the

> difference between a nut and a grain? Is it that nuts have hard

> shells and grain do not? They are all seeds, of course. Is there

> some collective term for the seeds of grasses, like wheat, oats, etc?

>

> Rodney.

>

>

> > > >

> > > > > I know that nutritionally there are some grains which are

> better

> > > than

> > > > > others, but I'm wondering if based upon experience, CRONers

> find

> > > some

> > > > > grains and/or legume more tasty than others.

> > > > >

> > > > > And, if there are simple spices that some of your find make

> > > > > grains/legumes more yummy.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bernadette, who don't know nuthin' about science, but likes

> to eat

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

>>>Also it has been posted here that 'quinoa' is a grain that is one of

the few vegetable sources of all the essential amino acids.

There are no incomplete vegetable sources of all the amino acids. This was a

myth popularized by a best selling diet book, that found its way into the

mainstream media and textbooks, but was never true. I know it is

All plant foods contain all the essential amino acids. The only common food

product that doesnt contain all essentail AAs is actually from an animal source,

and its gelatin.

In fact, it is impossible to design a diet that is based on all plant foods that

is missing the AAs as long as you meet the following three criteria..

1) be adequate in calories

2) based on whole plant foods (no junk food)

3) not be all or predominately fruit)

No Cr-ON might make it a little tougher, but 1000 calories of most dark green

leafies will " blow away " any recommendations not only for protein but also for

all the essential AAs,.'

Knowing this, the now common accepted definition of " incomplete " is that these

foods have " limiting " amounts of certain amino acids. Again, not accurate.

regards

jeff

[Guest guest]

Opps, didnt finish my sentence.....

>>There are no incomplete vegetable sources of all the amino acids. This was a

myth popularized by a best selling diet book, that found its way into the

mainstream media and textbooks, but was never true. I know it is ...

I meant to say... " i know it is mentioned in the BY 120 yr Diet, but it is not

accurate and there exists no references for this information anywhere. The

ones that do exist and have looked at it have found the opposite to be true,

dating back even to the 1950s.

Reagrds

jeff

..

[Guest guest]

Grains taste better, I guess because they have more carbs.

Probably the ones that have more gluten have caused more people gut problems than others.

regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney

Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 7:17 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Adorable grains/legumes.

Hi :What is a non-grain grain? (I thought I knew what a grain was, but perhaps not if I don't know what a non-grain grain is?) So, 'what is a grain?' perhaps should be added to the list of questions. Also, what is the definition of 'cereal'? Is it different from 'grain'? If so how? My dictionary says cereal is an edible grain - but what would my dictionary know about such things? So does that mean if they aren't called cereals then they aren't edible? What is the difference between a nut and a grain? Is it that nuts have hard shells and grain do not? They are all seeds, of course. Is there some collective term for the seeds of grasses, like wheat, oats, etc? Rodney.

[Guest guest]

The word complete is not "complete", ie, very misleading.

All veggies contain all aminos acids, at least the ones I've used for food. They just don't have the same amino acid profile as meats, egg, milk. That word implies that we can't live on plants alone and that is not correct.

If one could derive a correct and precise amino acid profile for humans, it might look like an egg's amino acids distribution, thought to be perfect in some literature. However, since we always eat too much protein, and the excess aminos are burned, what's the problem with a protein that's not perfect? None as I can tell.

BTW, eating less of some of those like tryptophan, methionine may be a good thing for longevity.

And the beans and rice thing is BS, IMO. See if you can mathematically determine a combination of beans and rice amino acids that equals an egg.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: citpeks

Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 12:46 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Adorable grains/legumes.

Jeff,I hope that you meant to say "there are no COMPLETE vegetable sources"because there is plenty of evidence that plant proteins are generallydeficient in some amino acids, e.g., tryptophan (corn), lysine (corn)and methionine (beans); combinations are needed for adequate aminoacid balance. B120YD p. 232-233 mentions human milk and whole eggs as being completewhereas rice, soy, and wheat don't have the amino acid balance neededfor human nutrition unless combined, e.g., beans and brown rice.Tony

[Guest guest]

Tony

>>I hope that you meant to say " there are no COMPLETE vegetable sources "

No, I meant there are no INCOMPLETE vegetable sources of all the EAAs. The only

known incomplete (lacking all EAAs) food product commonly consumed is in fact an

animal product, gelatin and not a plant food.

>>because there is plenty of evidence that plant proteins are generally

deficient in some amino acids, e.g., tryptophan (corn), lysine (corn) and

methionine (beans);

As i said, there is a lot of (mis) information that is out there, and it even

exists in some medical and nutrition textbooks even today, but there are no

references for any of it. Even the conservative American Dietetic Association

reversed its position on this myth many years ago. Most of the info is just

someone repeating the misinformation of someone else. About 9 months ago, one

of my patients was a professor of biochemistry at a medical school and disputed

my comments, as you are, saying it is in their current textbook. I agreed that

it does exist in the textbooks as elsewhere, but I had them investigate it as I

ask you to, and by the end of the week, admitted their error and found what I

said you would find, that when you do seacrh the medical and biochemical data,

what you find is that going back to 1952 there are several published stduies and

articles showing the exact opposite, that plants do contain all the EAAs and in

the proper balance and can adequately meet the protein requirements of humans.

And this has been repeated and published many times since.

Check yourself. Just look and see if you can find those references that

actually analysed plant foods and found them defecient. Most all the info can

be linked back to a popular lay book called " diet for a small planet " by Frances

Lappee, which came out in 1971. In the 1981 anniversary edition , even

the author admitted that in trying to end one myth (world hunger) she created

another myth (incomplete proteins and complementing proteins) which is untrue.

Better yet, check the USDA Database SR 16 (the most current) is online and we

can seacrh any food and see the latest analysis including the EAA content. Take

my challange, put in any one whole plant food, plug it in for 1500 calories and

check the EAA content against either the US RDA, the WHO or the revised WHO, and

you will see that in every cases not only does the food provide all EAAs, it

will usually do it in at least 2-10x the recopmmended amounts, including,

lysine, tryptophan and methionine.

>>combinations are needed for adequate amino acid balance.

Again, based on the myth. As i mentioned, I know that B120YD quotes the myth (as

does current textbooks) but again, try to find a legitimate reference for it.

I am not promoting a 100% vegan diet, I just think it is important that we know

the truth about this as it can lead to many other errors and fears in dietary

planning.

Reagrds

Jeff

PS I am on the road again (a week hiking in the Santa Fe, Taos area) but when I

return I will post the major references for the above, from 1952 to today. .

(pss please excuse any spelling errors and remember what Mark Twain said... " Dont

beleive everything you read in a health book, you can die of a misprint! "

[Guest guest]

http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/7/1841S

Nitrogen and Amino Acid Requirements

is a good thing to review. Forms the basis of the IOM.

Table 3, shows .75 grams/kg/day

Table 8, Lysine oxidation and balance, is interesting, because it shows for intermediate lysine levels, lysine oxidation of 27.3 +/- 17.6. A wide variation, IMO. That's 10.3 to 44.9. IOM uses 47 (from my notes).

that means that some individuals may be getting 4 times as much as they need. And that may explain why some peoples were able to survive on a staple of corn.

Other interesting articles in the same issue of J nutr, is

http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/7/1850S

Quantifying the Digestibility of Dietary Protein1

http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/7/1865S

The Protein Digestibility–Corrected Amino Acid Score

http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/7/1835S

Dispensable and Indispensable Amino Acids for Humans

Last I looked nutritiondata was using SR17.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: citpeks

Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 3:35 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Adorable grains/legumes.

>>>From: "Jeff Novick" <jnovick@p...>Date: Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:02 pmBetter yet, check the USDA Database SR 16 (the most current) is onlineand we can seacrh any food and see the latest analysis including theEAA content. Take my challange, put in any one whole plant food, plugit in for 1500 calories and check the EAA content against either theUS RDA, the WHO or the revised WHO, and you will see that in everycases not only does the food provide all EAAs, it will usually do itin at least 2-10x the recopmmended amounts, including, lysine,tryptophan and methionine.>>>As Al pointed out in a previous note, the low level of tryptophan incorn can cause pellagra when corn is consumed as the only staple. Theproblem does not seem to be whether ALL the essential amino acids arepresent, but whether they are present in the CORRECT proportion to beused by the human body. This is explained in the IOM Report: DietaryReference Intakes for Energy, Carbohydrate, Fiber, Fat, Fatty Acids,Cholesterol, Protein, and Amino Acids (Macronutrients) (2002) p. 534.http://www.nap.edu/openbook/0309085373/html/534.htmlBy using the USDA site, I found out that you would have to eat 1.7Kgof potatoes to get 1,500 calories and you would be getting only 32g ofprotein. Since the RDA is about 75g of protein per day, you wouldneed to eat about 4Kg of potatoes (8.8 lb and 3,530 calories) to getyour minimum requirement of protein. Eating only potatoes, you will probably fill up before you can eatenough to meet your nutritional requirements and you will end up witha deficiency disease of some type. The information for corn is alsoincluded below. Corn is somewhat more nutritious than potatoes, asfar as protein is concerned.I also compared the amino acid profile in nutritiondata.com with theUSDA site for 100g of yellow corn. Nutritiondata.com shows about 3times more protein. I hope that the USDA data is more reliable.Tony.