Re: Coping With Food Pushers

[Guest guest]

One of my secrets is to put Vicks salve in my nose. Everything smells like menthol.

My biggest problem is the winter - I tend to add weight and sweat less, so days like today, I'll eat when my wife gets home from school - 4 PM.

I recall once a friend whose daughter had finished culinary delight school, and had prepared a cheese ball, and dyed it red with something. There was no way I would eat it. I wondered if I could taste it and spit it out. I picked up a glass of wine and sipped that to get rid of the visuals. It looked like I didn't want to interfere with the "bouket" of the wine. My wife complimented me later on my "tack", something with which I was not gifted.

Another way is to fill a plate with a little of each food, and lose the plate. (except for the pecan pie).

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Francesca Skelton

support group

Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 11:43 AM

Subject: [ ] Coping With Food Pushers

By Tallmadge One of my clients, who came to me to lose about 30 pounds, has a realproblem. He loves to eat, and he loves to please people. In fact, he saidpleasing people is the main reason he overeats. This tendency becomesespecially troublesome during the holidays when friends, family andcolleagues invite him for meals. My kind-hearted client literally cannot sayno.As a result, he says holidays are a time of joy but also frustration,because his need to be polite is in stark conflict with his goal of trimmingdown. Many of us can appreciate his dilemma. Holiday delicacies can be difficultto navigate, especially if you're trying to avoid gaining weight fromThanksgiving to the New Year. And that can bring out the best and the worstin people.We all know hosts who aren't satisfied until they convince us, beg us, toeat more, more, more. Their entreaties are hard to resist, if only becausewe want to be polite.To be fair, "food pushers," as I call them, aren't necessarily bad people.Your mom, your spouse, your friends -- they just want to please you. Theyare people who think they have your best interests at heart and know morethan you do about what and how much food (and drink) you should beconsuming.My clients and I have tried various tactics through the years, most of themutter failures. I've tried explaining that I wasn't hungry. I even wentthrough a phase of telling people I was allergic to this or that. Thatdidn't work, either. And I learned that the worst thing you can say to afood pusher is, "No thanks, I'm on a diet" or "Thanks, I'm watching it."You might as well say, "Talk me into it!" Your excuse is giving the foodpusher a double signal -- that you really want it but have to refuse. Itmight also sound insulting, implying that the food isn't good enough foryour refined tastes. And finally your response might make the pusher feelguilty, as if he or she should be "watching it," too. All of these thingschallenge the food pusher to seduce you.But I finally began to make headway when I learned the most basic rule ofall: Never give excuses. I'm delighted to say that one of the foremostauthorities on etiquette told me that this approach is both appropriate andwise."The best answer is a simple but firm 'No thank you,'" declared Judith, the syndicated columnist who writes as Miss Manners. "Once you givean excuse, you open yourself to argument." also offered clear advice in her column to food pushers, and their"endless patter of coercion -- 'Oh, come on, one won't hurt you . . . I madethis especially for you . . . it doesn't have any calories . . . you're toothin anyway . . . it's good for you . . . you're not going to make me eatleftovers tomorrow.' Miss Manners asks them to cut it out.""To offer and provide food is lovely, but to badger people into eating itisn't pleasant," told me. "Politeness consists of offering food anddrink without cajoling or embarrassing people into taking it."While "no thank you" is fine for hosts, I learned I had to use a differenttactic with my family.During visits to my grandparents in Sweden, for instance, every day I feltoverstuffed from too many fattening (and, yes, delicious) Swedish meatballs,cheeses and cakes. Inevitably with each visit I came home several poundsheavier. I decided I'd drop subtle hints and compliments to guide them into servingme food that wasn't going to make me look and feel like a Swedish meatball.This technique of continued positive reinforcement took several years (inpsychology, it's called "shaping"), but it eventually worked. When theyserved seafood, salads, fruits -- food I wanted more of -- I complimentedlavishly. "Sweden has the best fish in the world!" or "I just love yoursalads!" (which was all true, by the way). Over time, whenever I'd visit,they'd feed me what they learned I loved: seafood, salads and fruits. (Yes,I also loved the fattening stuff, but that was easily obtained, and I wantedto limit my indulgences without announcing it.)The same technique can work with your colleagues, friends and family, andit doesn't have to take years. At Thanksgiving or during the holidays,instead of focusing on what you don't want or can't have, and using turn-offwords such as "healthy" or "diet," simply compliment your hosts and staypositive. Instead of saying "I can't have dessert, I'm watching it," say"The meal was so satisfying, I can't have another bite!"When given a choice at, say, the Thanksgiving meal, a work party, apotluck, or in restaurants, instead of, "I don't eat mashed potatoes andgravy," say: "The green beans look fabulous!"My client tried these tactics with his family and friends and has beenlosing weight ever since. He was surprised at how a simple compliment couldstop food pushers in their tracks.Even Miss Manners agrees that this approach is okay as long as you don't gointo too much detail. In the end, no food pusher can resist a happy guest.Of course, as a guest, you have obligations, too, which I'll discuss in mynext column. Tallmadge is a Washington nutritionist and the author of "DietSimple" (Lifeline Press, 2004). Send e-mails to her at food@....

[Guest guest]

Vicks menthol is a very potent smell, identified with sickness. People can smell the little bit you breath out.

You need to understand that I'm always puzzled by use of words like "splurge", "binge", words that glorify food.

Food is my enemy, so I'm not tempted by tastes or motivated by people in peer groups. In fact, I've never been motivated by peers.

I analyze data and if it looks to me I need it, I'll try it. I'm not going to try a new food just because some beautiful hostess says try it. (well maybe sela ward).

Really, I think anyone who CAN respond like this article says as a gesture of politeness is simply BS. Who made that rule? I think it's impolite to push food to begin with.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: chris

Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 7:24 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Coping With Food Pushers

How does Vicks help you cope with food pushers? I'm lost, or are you replying to another post?

My secret is to rub Vicks all over my body. That way no one invites me anywhere or even stands within ten feet of me. Voila! Goodbye food pushers!

As for holiday or other special occasions, I just don't worry about it. I figure that if I'm on CR all the other days then a splurge day a few times a year won't hurt me.

chrisjwwright <jwwright@...> wrote:

One of my secrets is to put Vicks salve in my nose. Everything smells like menthol.

My biggest problem is the winter - I tend to add weight and sweat less, so days like today, I'll eat when my wife gets home from school - 4 PM.

I recall once a friend whose daughter had finished culinary delight school, and had prepared a cheese ball, and dyed it red with something. There was no way I would eat it. I wondered if I could taste it and spit it out. I picked up a glass of wine and sipped that to get rid of the visuals. It looked like I didn't want to interfere with the "bouket" of the wine. My wife complimented me later on my "tack", something with which I was not gifted.

Another way is to fill a plate with a little of each food, and lose the plate. (except for the pecan pie).

Regards.

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris:

I entirely agree. Is there supposed to be some custom that one

should never refrain from food at home, but only when food is offered

by a host(ess) elsewhere?

If there isn't, then why not enjoy the food offered, presuming it is

not offensively unhealthy, and then make up the difference by

refraining from food at home before and after the party to make up

the difference?

It is one's average daily caloric intake **over very long periods**

(i.e. yearS) that is relevant.

Tallmadge's client's problem is simple. It is that he

cannot refuse food, period. How many days in the year is he being

pressed to eat food at parties? How many days in the year is he

stuffing himself at home (or at Mcs or wherever)? And he would

like to shift the responsibility for his caloric intake to someone

else. He needs to 'get a grip'. IMO.

Rodney.

> How does Vicks help you cope with food pushers? I'm lost, or are

you replying to another post?

>

> As for holiday or other special occasions, I just don't worry about

it. I figure that if I'm on CR all the other days then a splurge day

a few times a year won't hurt me.

>

> chris>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Francesca Skelton

> support group

> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 11:43 AM

> Subject: [ ] Coping With Food Pushers

>

>

>

> By Tallmadge

>

> One of my clients, who came to me to lose about 30 pounds, has a

real

> problem. He loves to eat, and he loves to please people. In fact,

he said

> pleasing people is the main reason he overeats. This tendency

becomes

> especially troublesome during the holidays when friends, family and

> colleagues invite him for meals. My kind-hearted client literally

cannot say

> no.

[Guest guest]

i never thought of that. I'll have to try it next time I'm about to get on

the NYC subway system in rush hour :-)

on 11/18/2004 10:32 AM, jwwright at jwwright@... wrote:

> Vicks menthol is a very potent smell, identified with sickness. People can

> smell the little bit you breath out.

>

[Guest guest]

Right on that aspect. You could just eat less the next day.

BUT people have a habit of making things like raw oysters covered with béarnaise sauce, a sprig of something and a lot of salt. It's better to say no than throw up, I think.

Maybe if I just wipe the oyster on the napkin?

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney

Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 10:08 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Coping With Food Pushers

Hi Chris:I entirely agree. Is there supposed to be some custom that one should never refrain from food at home, but only when food is offered by a host(ess) elsewhere?If there isn't, then why not enjoy the food offered, presuming it is not offensively unhealthy, and then make up the difference by refraining from food at home before and after the party to make up the difference?It is one's average daily caloric intake **over very long periods** (i.e. yearS) that is relevant. Tallmadge's client's problem is simple. It is that he cannot refuse food, period. How many days in the year is he being pressed to eat food at parties? How many days in the year is he stuffing himself at home (or at Mcs or wherever)? And he would like to shift the responsibility for his caloric intake to someone else. He needs to 'get a grip'. IMO.Rodney.

[Guest guest]

here's a cute thing:

http://www.livingto100.com/quiz.htm

I got 89.6 and the only thing I can change is to 800 iu vit E.

I'll do it again when I reach 90.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

I got 80 years but I still struggle with my weight

Positive dennis

jwwright wrote:

here's a cute thing:

http://www.livingto100.com/quiz.htm

I got 89.6 and the only

thing I can change is to 800 iu vit E.

I'll do it again when I

reach 90.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

Hi JW:

It is interesting to put different numbers into those quizzes and see

how the lifespan prediction changes.

I entered my age, height and weight and then everything else the way

I expected they would regard as being beneficial, and got 98.8 for

lifespan. Then I checked it for weights of 150, 160, 170, 180, and

190 pounds. It wasn't until I entered 190 pounds that the predicted

lifespan dropped, to 97.0. So you have to be REALLY overweight for

it to have an effect, apparently, according to their analysis.

Anyway, it does seem to suggest that their analysis is that if you do

everything right you may live to 98.8. But it appears they do not

figure in the benefit we believe is to be had from CR, i.e. BMI =

~20; BF% = ~8%; etc..

Rodney.

--- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...>

wrote:

> here's a cute thing:

> http://www.livingto100.com/quiz.htm

> I got 89.6 and the only thing I can change is to 800 iu vit E.

> I'll do it again when I reach 90.

>

> Regards.

[Guest guest]

Hi JW:

I also put in all the same data except I said my age was 90.

Again it came up with 98.8. So this tells us that they are not

calculating it by the years of life remaining. Logically I would

have thought that the life expectancy of someone with the same

characteristics at age 90, ought to be higher than that of someone

who had those characteristics at age 60 or whatever.

But it certainly is useful to know their list of criteria for long

life expectancy.

Rodney.

--- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...>

wrote:

> here's a cute thing:

> http://www.livingto100.com/quiz.htm

> I got 89.6 and the only thing I can change is to 800 iu vit E.

> I'll do it again when I reach 90.

>

> Regards.

[Guest guest]

These things can not possibly account for all factors but it is an entertaining way to look at obvious personal risk factors.

They wouldn't allow me to both drink more than 16oz of coffee and green tea. One reason for not liking coffee was that they associated it with higher stress?

I guess they never drank good home roasted coffee....:-)

JR

-----Original Message-----From: Dennis De Jarnette [mailto:positivedennis@...]Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Coping With Food PushersI got 80 years but I still struggle with my weightPositive dennis

[Guest guest]

Agree. I couldn't change it even at 120#. The estimate is lacking and it supposedly was shown on TV with a CRONie I think, I didn't see the show. In another example a while back I got over 100. So I'll take the other one. Neither accounts for possible effects of CR.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney

Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:05 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Coping With Food Pushers

Hi JW:It is interesting to put different numbers into those quizzes and see how the lifespan prediction changes. I entered my age, height and weight and then everything else the way I expected they would regard as being beneficial, and got 98.8 for lifespan. Then I checked it for weights of 150, 160, 170, 180, and 190 pounds. It wasn't until I entered 190 pounds that the predicted lifespan dropped, to 97.0. So you have to be REALLY overweight for it to have an effect, apparently, according to their analysis.Anyway, it does seem to suggest that their analysis is that if you do everything right you may live to 98.8. But it appears they do not figure in the benefit we believe is to be had from CR, i.e. BMI = ~20; BF% = ~8%; etc..Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Isn't Vit E the vitamin recently discovered was BAD for you and associated

with shorter life??? Apparently their quiz doesn't keep up with the latest

discoveries. We should invent our own quiz 'cause we're more current with

the latest knowledge than they are.

on 11/18/2004 12:15 PM, jwwright at jwwright@... wrote:

> here's a cute thing:

> http://www.livingto100.com/quiz.htm

> I got 89.6 and the only thing I can change is to 800 iu vit E.

> I'll do it again when I reach 90.

>

> Regards.

[Guest guest]

Yes.

I like this one a lot better.

http://www.cancer-info.com/life_span_calculator.htm

101

seems reasonable to put more emphasis on what my parents died of then the year their age, because we can fix a lot more stuff today.

Regards

----- Original Message -----

From: Francesca Skelton

Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:56 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Coping With Food Pushers

Isn't Vit E the vitamin recently discovered was BAD for you and associatedwith shorter life??? Apparently their quiz doesn't keep up with the latestdiscoveries. We should invent our own quiz 'cause we're more current withthe latest knowledge than they are.on 11/18/2004 12:15 PM, jwwright at jwwright@... wrote:> here's a cute thing:> http://www.livingto100.com/quiz.htm> I got 89.6 and the only thing I can change is to 800 iu vit E.> I'll do it again when I reach 90.> > Regards.

[Guest guest]

Hi Francesca:

I calculate 800 I.U. of vitamin E daily to be about 130 times the

amount that the people who do not take supplements get from food.

I would have thought that was a huge case of overdose, even if higher

amounts are desirable. I take 400 I.U. weekly - which I calculate to

be 6.7 times as much as the average non-supplementing citizen. Even

that may be too much.

Rodney.

>

> > here's a cute thing:

> > http://www.livingto100.com/quiz.htm

> > I got 89.6 and the only thing I can change is to 800 iu vit E.

> > I'll do it again when I reach 90.

> >

> > Regards.

[Guest guest]

The vit E study was a little more complicated than that... it associated

some negative impact from increasing dosage.

Lifespan calculators are for entertainment and crude educational purposes,

but far from scientific or accurate. A life extension calculator would only

perfectly apply to certain strains of lab rats, but it sounds like fun.

Supplementation science is extremely complex and probably personal. The more

I learn the less I know.

JR

-----Original Message-----

From: Francesca Skelton [mailto:fskelton@...]

Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:57 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Coping With Food Pushers

Isn't Vit E the vitamin recently discovered was BAD for you and associated

with shorter life??? Apparently their quiz doesn't keep up with the latest

discoveries. We should invent our own quiz 'cause we're more current with

the latest knowledge than they are.

on 11/18/2004 12:15 PM, jwwright at jwwright@... wrote:

[Guest guest]

Hi JW:

That cancer-info.com calculator is nutz.

In my case, overwhelmingly the biggest factor appears to be 'how many

years have you lived alone since age 25?'. The more years you have

lived alone causes, according to their analysis, a huge increase in

life expectancy. In my case, just changing that one variable can

cause variations from a life expectance of 79 to 96!!!

Does this really make sense? In addition, for a number of the

variables there is no button for me to press. Age for example!!!

Rodney.

>

> > here's a cute thing:

> > http://www.livingto100.com/quiz.htm

> > I got 89.6 and the only thing I can change is to 800 iu vit E.

> > I'll do it again when I reach 90.

> >

> > Regards.

[Guest guest]

Let's pursue that a little. The lifespan calculators, try to put a bunch of numbers together derived from risk factors, like we assume are good such as BMI. body fat%, etc. Is there an equivalent thing for any supplement?

Off hand I don't why vit E would be singled out since there are many antioxidants.

What happened to vit C, beta-carotene, eg. Things like pantothenic acid from 1982? Or wheat germ bread, blackstrap molasses from 1946 (Gaylord Hauser)? If I sum up that stuff, it doesn't tell me much.

I'm missing some way to quantify the effect on lifespan. I hate to call it metrics, that what me dead boss(es) was always worried about. How do I justify in some real terms taking a bunch of stuff that may in excess, wear the liver?

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From:

Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 2:22 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] Coping With Food Pushers

The vit E study was a little more complicated than that... it associatedsome negative impact from increasing dosage.Lifespan calculators are for entertainment and crude educational purposes,but far from scientific or accurate. A life extension calculator would onlyperfectly apply to certain strains of lab rats, but it sounds like fun.Supplementation science is extremely complex and probably personal. The moreI learn the less I know.JR-----Original Message-----From: Francesca Skelton [mailto:fskelton@...]Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Coping With Food PushersIsn't Vit E the vitamin recently discovered was BAD for you and associatedwith shorter life??? Apparently their quiz doesn't keep up with the latestdiscoveries. We should invent our own quiz 'cause we're more current withthe latest knowledge than they are.

[Guest guest]

Hi JW:

Even worse: If I put 49 as the number of years I have lived alone I

get a life expectancy of 96. If I put zero for that, and change

NOTHING else, I get a life expectancy of 57!!!!!!!!

Complete garbage is my tentative conclusion on that one.

Rodney.

>

> > here's a cute thing:

> > http://www.livingto100.com/quiz.htm

> > I got 89.6 and the only thing I can change is to 800 iu vit E.

> > I'll do it again when I reach 90.

> >

> > Regards.

[Guest guest]

I read that one wrong. maybe the designer is dyslexic.

It's the other way. People that live alone have weird accidents / sleep apnea.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney

Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 2:46 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Coping With Food Pushers

Hi JW:That cancer-info.com calculator is nutz. In my case, overwhelmingly the biggest factor appears to be 'how many years have you lived alone since age 25?'. The more years you have lived alone causes, according to their analysis, a huge increase in life expectancy. In my case, just changing that one variable can cause variations from a life expectance of 79 to 96!!!Does this really make sense? In addition, for a number of the variables there is no button for me to press. Age for example!!!Rodney.> Yes.> I like this one a lot better.> http://www.cancer-info.com/life_span_calculator.htm> 101> seems reasonable to put more emphasis on what my parents died of then the year their age, because we can fix a lot more stuff today. > > Regards

[Guest guest]

Hi JW:

I agree. But even then would living alone be believed to influence

lifespan by forty years? What a joke.

Rodney.

> > Yes.

> > I like this one a lot better.

> > http://www.cancer-info.com/life_span_calculator.htm

> > 101

> > seems reasonable to put more emphasis on what my parents died

of

> then the year their age, because we can fix a lot more stuff

today.

> >

> > Regards

[Guest guest]

I answered both questionnaires accurately and got identical results...

it must be BS

JR

-----Original Message-----

From: Rodney [mailto:perspect1111@...]

Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 2:51 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Coping With Food Pushers

Hi JW:

Even worse: If I put 49 as the number of years I have lived alone I

get a life expectancy of 96. If I put zero for that, and change

NOTHING else, I get a life expectancy of 57!!!!!!!!

Complete garbage is my tentative conclusion on that one.

Rodney.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi JR:

There you are, you see. You need to me more analytical ;;; ^ )))

Rodney.

--- In , " " <crjohnr@b...>

wrote:

> I answered both questionnaires accurately and got identical

results...

>

> it must be BS

>

> JR

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Rodney [mailto:perspect1111@y...]

> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 2:51 PM

>

> Subject: [ ] Re: Coping With Food Pushers

>

>

>

>

> Hi JW:

>

> Even worse: If I put 49 as the number of years I have lived alone

I

> get a life expectancy of 96. If I put zero for that, and change

> NOTHING else, I get a life expectancy of 57!!!!!!!!

>

> Complete garbage is my tentative conclusion on that one.

>

> Rodney.

>

> -

[Guest guest]

Just try taking my coffee away in the nursing home and see what happens. Stress is what I used to give. Keeps MY BP down.

Seriously, I don't know how anyone can evaluate the age a person might live unless it's the insurance company. And they don't ask silly questions. As I recall, weight is the biggest criteria. That's BMI.

Parents and siblings health play a part.

Now I imagine they look at lipids, as well as blood sugar, blood pressure.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From:

Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:35 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] Coping With Food Pushers

These things can not possibly account for all factors but it is an entertaining way to look at obvious personal risk factors.

They wouldn't allow me to both drink more than 16oz of coffee and green tea. One reason for not liking coffee was that they associated it with higher stress?

I guess they never drank good home roasted coffee....:-)

JR

[Guest guest]

You recognized that it didn't ask for age. So they may be using the years alone added to 25 to estimate age. But I agree these estimates are silly.

I am greatly influenced by experience and I think those with defective parents can overcome a lot of the weight put on genetics, with proper nutrition. My parents had a LOT of stress in the depression. Imagine losing your paid-for house, moving 1200 miles to a warmer climate, raising 4 kids, and their parents were suffering loss of jobs - ill health as well.

My gf owned a good forging business which failed in the depression - the other died in 1930. So their parental support was lost at the same time. There are no equations I can think of to evaluate such stress. My sis-in-law came from parents who owned a grocery in the depression and managed to keep the farm land they owned.

They ate no salt and limited animal products. She today at 83 yo - can run up the stairs.

She eats <1200 kcals per day, in fact surprisingly low intake. A pkg of oatmeal with 5, that's FIVE cranberries. No milk no sugar. For lunch a salad, and a banana with 1 tbls of peanut butter which has had the fat poured off. Supper is maybe 3 oz of poached salmon and a salad. That's like 3-4 days per week. Other nites just a large salad. After supper 2 glasses of red wine. AND she is uneducated (formally). She's kept my bro alive working at 80 yo.

That means to me, that I can live a lot past 75yo. What I can change is eating crap that is KNOWN to be bad for me like salt (excess), hydrogenated fat, excess fat.

As far as supplements go, well, Dr. Llanes, my local doc for a while - the last thing I heard him say was "take 500 Vit C, and 400 Vit E, I take more". Dead of liver cancer at 43yo.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney

Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 2:51 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Coping With Food Pushers

Hi JW:Even worse: If I put 49 as the number of years I have lived alone I get a life expectancy of 96. If I put zero for that, and change NOTHING else, I get a life expectancy of 57!!!!!!!!Complete garbage is my tentative conclusion on that one.Rodney.