RE: Re: Nutritional Equilibrium

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-----Original Message-----

From: citpeks [mailto:citpeks@...]

Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 2:59 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Nutritional Equilibrium

>>>From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...>

Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:50 pm

Subject: Re: Nutritional Equilibrium

In addition to pointing out that the percentage of weight lost that

is lean body mass increases as weight and body fat decrease, Forbes'

data also seem to suggest that it is essential, after body fat

percentage drops to 15%, to lose weight SLOWLY. I.E. to run only a

small caloric deficit.

The reason is that Forbes also found, apparently, that you lose more

lean body mass when weight is lost rapidly than if weight loss is

slow.

Lose weight slowly and most of the loss is fat. Lose weight rapidly

and much of the weight lost is muscle, etc. that you do not want to

lose.

So what kind of numbers are we talking about here for weight loss

from 15% BF% down? Half a pound a week? Quarter pound per week?

One tenth of a pound per week?

>>>

Rodney,

I think a better question would be: " How do you know when to stop

restricting calories to lose weight and start eating to

maintain weight? " (Thereby achieving Nutritional Equilibrium)

To me, the answer of when to stop CR and start maintenance seems to be

the point at which CR eliminates more lean body mass than fat. If

this point is 15% BF for a male, so be it. In my case, I have

stablized at 13.2% BF on 2000 kcal. However, my BMI is 23.0, which

for hard-core CRONers is too high. As long as I keep up an exercise

schedule that stimulates muscle growth, I don't think that my BMI will

drop. I think that without the exercise my %BF might be higher. To

get a BMI of 22 I would have to lose 6 pounds, 4 of which would be

lean body mass. I cannot justify that from anything that I have read.

Right now, I am on a maintenance schedule. If I lose weight and start

feeling hungry, I increase my calories for a several meals. If I gain

weight, I cut back. I check the scale every day to see the trends.

It is a dynamic equilibrium.

Tony

==================

Just as we have little understanding of what CR's underlying mechanisms

really are, how can we expect to accurately predict specific beneficial

target levels?

Regarding rate of chance of weight loss and proportion of LBM vs. adipose I

am a little apprehensive about simple relationships. I suspect there will be

significant primary influences on remodeling related to use or stress (read

exercise), and secondary effects based on diet (available protein, calcium,

etc?).

Just by observation look at a long distance runner. Most will not win arm

wrestling contests and few are truly CR'd, while attaining a low energy

balance using work output.

I personally experienced significant loss of upper body strength during a 2

month period of what I thought was moderate (1#/week) weight loss, but being

away from my home base, I let resistance training slide for the entire

period. I am now very vocal about slow weight loss from my personal

experience with how difficult it is to regain strength back with a

relatively low energy diet and low levels of growth hormone (mid-50's).

Right now I am pondering a new concern... just like the distance runner

develops hir lower body while suffering upper body atrophy, I wonder if very

specific training, or absence of use/stress may inadvertently risk loss of

some useful capacity worth defending.

I am hopeful that my participation in competitive (man vs. man) sport will

be balanced and serve me well. At 22 BMI I am far from extreme (CR fatty?)

but at 10% BF according to my less than accurate Tanita, I am pretty sure

some remodeling is still going on.

Once again more questions than answers but plenty of reason to practice

caution and moderation. For those still in the process of losing weight,

this is not a race. Who knows, you may even be enjoying benefits " while "

losing weight that go away once you stabilize. In any case you have the rest

of your life to live the rest of your life.

Be well..

JR