Re: Re: Is chronic structured exercise necessary for health?

[Guest guest]

In fact Jeff recently posted that Pritikin's artery's at post mortem were

clean as a whistle. This would be in contradiction to freebird's statement

below that every bite of food causes harm (see below) .

As I said previously, these kind of radical statements do more mental harm

than good to impressionable people who may already be on the line afa

anorexia.

on 10/16/2004 1:55 AM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

So

> more than the threshold level of exercise clearly does NOT provide

> immunity against heart disease, and clean arteries apparently are

> obtainable by people with a wide range of exercise habits.

>

> I think you need to find a different tree to bark up.

>

> Rodney.

freebird wrote:

any and ALL foods promote vascular damage of some sort and from day

ONE our vessels are progressively clogging and that this is all

inevitable?

with every bite we create hordes of free radicals that rip away at the

fabric of our very essence?

>

[Guest guest]

Certainly not due to aging - it's seen before adulthood in teens and preteens.

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney

Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 12:55 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Is chronic structured exercise necessary for health?

Hi Freebird:I don't accept your premise as to what causes atherosclerosis. You suggested earlier it was the inevitable result of aging. I don't believe so.

[Guest guest]

I think more complicated than that. The Bogalusa heart study is compelling enough that you get the full text. Absolutely NOT an old man's disease. I think not even related to aging.

Some excerpts:

The American Journal of CardiologyVolume 90 • Number 10C • November 21, 2002Copyright © 2002 The American College of Cardiology

Childhood risk factors predict adult risk associated with subclinical cardiovascular disease: The Bogalusa Heart Study

Cardiovascular risk factors begin in childhood and are predictive of cardiovascular risk in adulthood. Observations in the Bogalusa Heart Study have shown an important correlation of clinical risk factors in early life with anatomic changes in the aorta and coronary vessels with atherosclerosis and cardiac and renal changes related to hypertension. These observations have been extended by echo Doppler studies of carotid artery intima media thickness (IMT). A close association of risk factors in young adults, 20–38 years of age, occurs with IMT, and a marked increase is noted as numbers of risk factors increase. More extensive changes seem to occur in the bulb or bifurcation area. This area may be an earlier marker of disease. Observations of risk factors in young individuals and noninvasive studies of structural changes of the cardiovascular system have strong implications for prevention by cardiologists.

It is now well established that cardiovascular risk factors are definable in childhood and are predictive of future cardiovascular risk.[1] [2] [3] [4] Although clinical cardiovascular heart disease occurs in later life, evidence of atherosclerosis and traits of hypertension and diabetes mellitus are clearly present in childhood. The precise initiating factors of these diseases are still being investigated, but by identifying the earliest determinants of cardiovascular risk, we can achieve a great deal in determining susceptibility (risk) to complex traits, such as coronary artery disease. The clinical physiologic risk factors are governed by both genes and environment, and what is observed is a genetic–environmental interaction. The long-term burden of cardiovascular risk factors and lifestyle behaviors developing from childhood interacting with a genetic basis is important to ultimate clinical events. Risk factor levels at any early age relate to beginning anatomic changes of the cardiovascular–renal system. Unhealthy lifestyles, such as high-fat, high-calorie diet, tobacco use, and physical inactivity leading to obesity, begin in childhood and are controllable. Cardiologists now have the opportunity to study cardiovascular risk and determine its effect on underlying cardiac and vascular changes early in life.

Extensive cardiovascular risk factor data have been collected on approximately 16,000 individuals from birth to 38 years of age, many of them with multiple observations.

Risk factors track to varying degrees, with measures of obesity tracking the most.[5] Obesity, which begins in infancy and childhood, persists into adulthood. Serum total cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol track almost as well. The magnitude of tracking of triglycerides, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, and blood pressure is relatively low, probably due to biologic and/or measurement variability. Of note, clusters of multiple risk factors persist strongly from childhood to adulthood, especially among those with increased body fatness.[6] The persistence of risk factors from childhood indicates that precursors of atherosclerosis and essential hypertension begin early and progress into adulthood.

Autopsy studies in youth from Bogalusa have provided the most compelling evidence that an unusually high prevalence (90%) of coronary atherosclerosis occurs by the third decade of life. The early occurrence of atherosclerosis was found in autopsy studies of the International Atherosclerosis Study emphasized by McGill[10] and in soldiers dying in the Korean and Vietnamese wars.[11] [12] Fatty streaks begin to appear in the aorta even earlier than 3 years of age.

----- Original Message -----

From: loganruns73

Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 10:24 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Is chronic structured exercise necessary for health?

ArtherosclerosisCause: Endothelial dysfunction, a result of poor health habits and normal aging.Markers: HIGH blood levels of homocysteine, fibrinogen, C-reactive protein, glucose, cholesterol, insulin, iron, LDL and triglycerides. LOW levels of HDL and testosterone.Prevention: Folic acid [PMID: 12015244, PMID: 14656033, PMID: 11772871, PMID: 15016776, PMID: 15069400, PMID: 14972346], vitamin C [PMID: 10385496, PMID: 10543931, PMID: 12381083, PMID: 12018880, PMID: 12237172], fish oil [PMID: 7867225, PMID: 10676668, PMID: 10419145] and lipoic acid [PMID: 14641086, PMID: 12086686, PMID: 11689467, PMID: 11323087, PMID: 9857109]. Anti-inflammation agents help too.Logan> > Hi Freebird:> > I don't accept your premise as to what causes atherosclerosis. You > suggested earlier it was the inevitable result of aging. I don't > believe so.