Guest guest Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 I'd like to point out a couple of things here that incorrect- I will put them in capitals (I'd use italics or something, but I've found out they don't come through on ) so you can see my comments (I am NOT shouting) interspersed throughout this post. I hope I am helping to clear up some not quite correct ideas. Ruth In a message dated 6/3/01 2:28:18 PM, writes: << Message: 23 Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 21:21:09 -0000 From: AndyCutler@... Subject: Re: Fats > Hi all, > > The true shame in the negative Kane comments is that the essence of her ideas > are very helpful. > > * Our brains are made up of fats, > * Nearly everone eats 'bad fats' and not enough 'good fats', > * Nearly all of our kids are fatty acid deficient, > * You need either good luck or the support of fatty acids testing to improve > their balance - it's complicated, and you're not likely to get it right without > some kind of support, This is the only part I disagree with. It is mostly simple. Only a few people are complicated. OUR KIDS ARE COMPLICATED- THEY HAVE A WHOLE HOST OF METABOLIC PROBLEMS- CAN'T DETOXIFY THEMSELVES, CAN'T PROCESS FOODS CORRECTLY HAVE CHRONIC BOWEL PROBLEMS, CHRONIC YEAST PROBLEMS, AMINO ACID CONVERSION PROBLEMS, FATTY ACID CONVERSION PROBLEMS, HYPOGLYCEMIA, ETC. YES, OUR KIDS ARE THE COMPLICATED ONES. > and if you get it wrong the child gets worse, And gets better again when you stop, then you know to try something else, or do it the complicated way. MAYBE, MAYBE NOT! SOMETIMES IT TAKES DAYS TO WEEKS TO SHOW UP AND IF WE'VE DONE MORE THAN ONE THING AT A TIME, HOW CAN YOU GUESS WHICH THING CAUSED IT. > * Body Bio isn't the only lab on earth to analyze test fatty acids tests. You > can use Great Smokies Essential and Metabolic Fatty Acids as an alternative, > * Fatty acid supplementation helps many of our kids - mine included. BODYBIO ISN'T A LAB, DR. KANE ANALYZES TESTS DONE AT OTHER LABS- SHE LIKES TO USE KENNEDY KRIEGER FOR THE FATTY ACID TESTING BECAUSE THEY DO A MORE THOROUGH RBC FATTY ACID ANALYSIS. SHE THEN ANALYZES THE HIGHS AND LOWS AND MAKES RECOMMENDATIONS. Excluding hydrogenated fats has worked wonders for Sheldon, too. HYDROGENATED FATS ACT LIKE PLASTIC IN OUR CELLS- THEY GET INTO THE CELLS LIKE NORMAL FATTY ACIDS BUT OUR BODIES CAN'T UTILIZE THEM AND THEY BLOCK THE PATHWAY AND UTILIZATION OF THE GOOD FATTY ACIDS. THROWING AWAY HYDROGENATED FATS IS ONE OF THE BEST THINGS WE CAN DO FOR OURSELVES. My main comment is that a byzantinely complex program is difficult to comply with, and takes effort that could be spent on other interventions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ther authors have written on this subject: > > " Nutrition and Physical Degeneration " by Dr. Weston Price, > " The Add Nutrition Solution : A Drug-Free Thirty-Day Plan " by Marcia Zimmerman, > " Nourishing Traditions: The Cookbook that Challenges Politically Correct > Nutrition and the Diet Dictocrats " by Sally Fallon, > " Know Your Fats : The Complete Primer for Understanding the Nutrition of Fats, > Oils and Cholesterol " by Dr. Enig, > etc.... > > K. > > PS In one way, it's good for people to use loaded language. That way we can > distinguish between reasoned and reactionar >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 > Hi all, > > The true shame in the negative Kane comments is that the essence of her ideas > are very helpful. > > * Our brains are made up of fats, > * Nearly everone eats 'bad fats' and not enough 'good fats', > * Nearly all of our kids are fatty acid deficient, > * You need either good luck or the support of fatty acids testing to improve > their balance - it's complicated, and you're not likely to get it right without > some kind of support, This is the only part I disagree with. It is mostly simple. Only a few people are complicated. > and if you get it wrong the child gets worse, And gets better again when you stop, then you know to try something else, or do it the complicated way. > * Body Bio isn't the only lab on earth to analyze test fatty acids tests. You > can use Great Smokies Essential and Metabolic Fatty Acids as an alternative, > * Fatty acid supplementation helps many of our kids - mine included. Excluding hydrogenated fats has worked wonders for Sheldon, too. My main comment is that a byzantinely complex program is difficult to comply with, and takes effort that could be spent on other interventions. > Other authors have written on this subject: > > " Nutrition and Physical Degeneration " by Dr. Weston Price, > " The Add Nutrition Solution : A Drug-Free Thirty-Day Plan " by Marcia Zimmerman, > " Nourishing Traditions: The Cookbook that Challenges Politically Correct > Nutrition and the Diet Dictocrats " by Sally Fallon, > " Know Your Fats : The Complete Primer for Understanding the Nutrition of Fats, > Oils and Cholesterol " by Dr. Enig, > etc.... > > K. > > PS In one way, it's good for people to use loaded language. That way we can > distinguish between reasoned and reactionar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2001 Report Share Posted June 4, 2001 > OUR KIDS ARE COMPLICATED- THEY HAVE A WHOLE HOST OF METABOLIC PROBLEMS- CAN'T > DETOXIFY THEMSELVES, CAN'T PROCESS FOODS CORRECTLY HAVE CHRONIC BOWEL > PROBLEMS, CHRONIC YEAST PROBLEMS, AMINO ACID CONVERSION PROBLEMS, FATTY ACID > CONVERSION PROBLEMS, HYPOGLYCEMIA, ETC. YES, OUR KIDS ARE THE COMPLICATED > ONES. They're just mercury toxic. Mercury toxic adults are even more messed up (they have more hormones to get out of whack than kids do), and get incredibly byzantine treatments that never cure them - until they chelate properly, which is simple. Then they get better. Most things are incredibly complicated if you aren't looking at a root cause and how things flow from it. I agree with everything you say up there - but treatment is NOT NECESSARILY complicated, since there is a simple root cause that can be addressed - mercury intoxication and its consequent oxidative stress. A few kids (and adults) have more than one thing going on at the same time and DO get more complicated to handle, but most don't. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2001 Report Share Posted June 4, 2001 Ruth, so true! I thought Forrest was doing pretty good on the oils, but after we went through the digestive aids, things like lipase, Similase, and the carbonates (other types of bicarbonates), it was a whole new thing with the oils, the cod-liver oil, the sunflower oil, primrose oil, plus the other dietary oils, just seem to be more powerful. I think he was finally using the nutrients from the oils, once he could fully digest them properly. I was a little nervous about using a couple of the vitamins that we had tried in the past, because they didn't agree with him before, however, once we went through the stage with the digestive aids, the dietary oil stage, and later started those vitamins, they began to help too. Yet, after we finished the stage with the oils, I was ready to stop right there, I couldn't imagine any better, than the progress he was making right then. I do believe in the step by step process, it makes sense, and it works. And also using just single supplements at a time, those combination products were what I had been doing wrong. I guess Dr.Kane learned that from experience, or she just somehow knew that would be better. The electrolytes, they are truly the foundation of it all. Starting with the most fundamental needs in the beginning and building to the more complex nutritional needs. Best, Forrest's Mom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2001 Report Share Posted June 4, 2001 Andy, I don't see Dr.Kane as being against mercury detoxification, what I see is if you follow her protocol, you might not have any mercury to detox, if that doesn't happen to be the case, at least the child or adult will be ready for DMSA. Someone once said (not you, at least I don't recall)that it would take years to detox someone by natural means, now I hear that these kids might be on DMSA for a few years, what is the difference? Except that DMSA is going to make them pretty sick. I wish that you could talk with her, I think you would like her and her ideas. Best, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2001 Report Share Posted June 4, 2001 ---Andy's reply makes alot of sense to me. I believe that mercury is to blame for a very large amount of disease, and " mysterious " conditions. I think we can look at trying to treat each " symptom " individually, OR go for the whole " condition " or " disease " by getting the toxic mercury OUT!!! and help the body to heal and balance itself. The latter seems alot less complicated. Lindy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In @y..., AndyCutler@a... wrote: > > OUR KIDS ARE COMPLICATED- THEY HAVE A WHOLE HOST OF METABOLIC > PROBLEMS- CAN'T > > DETOXIFY THEMSELVES, CAN'T PROCESS FOODS CORRECTLY HAVE CHRONIC > BOWEL > > PROBLEMS, CHRONIC YEAST PROBLEMS, AMINO ACID CONVERSION PROBLEMS, > FATTY ACID > > CONVERSION PROBLEMS, HYPOGLYCEMIA, ETC. YES, OUR KIDS ARE THE > COMPLICATED > > ONES. > > They're just mercury toxic. Mercury toxic adults are even more messed > up (they have more hormones to get out of whack than kids do), and get > incredibly byzantine treatments that never cure them - until they > chelate properly, which is simple. Then they get better. > > Most things are incredibly complicated if you aren't looking at a root > cause and how things flow from it. I agree with everything you say up > there - but treatment is NOT NECESSARILY complicated, since there is a > simple root cause that can be addressed - mercury intoxication and its > consequent oxidative stress. > > A few kids (and adults) have more than one thing going on at the same > time and DO get more complicated to handle, but most don't. > > Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2001 Report Share Posted June 4, 2001 What is the method of mercury chelation other than DMSA . DMPs removes more mercury and metals . I don't feel good about it. Cilantro - noone really knows how to use it . What other ways are there? kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2001 Report Share Posted June 4, 2001 , I can send you a copy of Dr.Kane's Detox Prep, if you send me your mailing address. Basically, it looks like she does the regular blood chemistry and red cell analysis, plus she would need a hair analysis or fecal screen for heavy metals (doctor data). There are three phases, the first is dietary changes, adding fats, the supplementation is electrolytes, minerals, and butyrate. The second stage is more diet changes, power drinks, some dietary eliminations, then probiotics, she mentions a few, digestive support things like bile salts, lipase, similase,etc. Then an increase in primrose oil, plus viobin Prometol, an an amino acid drink, and catalysis (biotin, pyridoxine, etc.) Phase Three has detox baths, and gall bladder flush, carnosine, multi-vitamins at this point, then there is more on the fatty acids. That is just a brief overview. If you want a copy, I would be happy to send it to you. Best, Forrest's Mom > > What is the method of mercury chelation other than DMSA . DMPs removes > more mercury and metals . I don't feel good about it. Cilantro - noone > really knows how to use it . What other ways are there? > kelly > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2001 Report Share Posted June 4, 2001 , I can send you a copy of my son's tests, just give me your snail address, it is too long (too much) to type in. Best, > If it's possible to send these, I love to look at > them!! > > THE 2 PAGES ENTITLED: " PATIENT COPY BODYBIO BLOOD > CHEM > AND RED CELL MEMBRANE FATTY ACID OVERVIEW " . > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2001 Report Share Posted June 5, 2001 > Andy, > Yes!! we always need to remember to look at the root > cause, otherwise, we only treat symptoms, and the > underlying cause remains. We have problems with > toxicities from mercury (or other metals, or other > things), and a very compromised gut, and elimination > routes (mainly liver and kidneys) that can be > inefficient also and thus don't eliminate adequately. > When we start chelating, some do well and some > don't....why? The primary reason is use of inappropriate, ineffective and even harmful protocols by some physicians. As with any therapeutic substance, chelating agents (the Rx kinds and the OTC kind) must be given properly for an appropriate indication or it won't do any good. > Once the toxic material gets loosened, > or attaches to a carrier, (detox--getting the toxic > material out of the intracellular and extracellular > tissues) where does it go?? If the elimination routes > aren't also opened up (drainage, opening the door to > then get them out of the body as well) it causes > reactions. I realize this is a nice theory, but it isn't related to what actually happens with most real people. Very few people have enough problem with excretory routes that it affects their ability to chelate out the nasties. > The concept of drainage is much more prevalent in > Europe (being founded in France). From the studies > I've done, it's the missing piece, and another part of > addressing the core problem of: toxicity, dysbiosis, > enzyme systems not functioning efficently, > constitutional weaknesses (the underlying anchor that > pulls a person in a particulat direction of weakness). > Our immune system is meant to deal with this stuff, > and when it doesn't, we need to look at why. > > > > > OUR KIDS ARE COMPLICATED- THEY HAVE A WHOLE HOST OF > METABOLIC > PROBLEMS- CAN'T > > DETOXIFY THEMSELVES, CAN'T PROCESS FOODS CORRECTLY > HAVE CHRONIC > BOWEL > > PROBLEMS, CHRONIC YEAST PROBLEMS, AMINO ACID > CONVERSION PROBLEMS, > FATTY ACID > > CONVERSION PROBLEMS, HYPOGLYCEMIA, ETC. YES, OUR > KIDS ARE THE > COMPLICATED > > ONES. > > They're just mercury toxic. Mercury toxic adults are > even more messed > up (they have more hormones to get out of whack than > kids do), and get > incredibly byzantine treatments that never cure them - > until they > chelate properly, which is simple. Then they get > better. > > Most things are incredibly complicated if you aren't > looking at a root > cause and how things flow from it. I agree with > everything you say up > there - but treatment is NOT NECESSARILY complicated, > since there is a > simple root cause that can be addressed - mercury > intoxication and its > consequent oxidative stress. > > A few kids (and adults) have more than one thing going > on at the same > time and DO get more complicated to handle, but most > don't. > > Andy > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 Do some research on virgin coconut oil as a healthy fat. I now use only coconut oil for cooking and olive oil for the cold dishes. It helped bring my good cholesterol up to the good range. This is the first time in my life that I've had a good reading on the HDL. There are many ways you can add coconut oil to your diet. I use the expeller pressed to cook with because I don't like the coconut flavor in the pure virgin coconut oil. I also use the vco as a skin conditioner. I couldn't live without my coconut oil. Irene _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Hi All, I have found that I require more calories and body weight for my health and believe that I may have found a healthy fat formula, Your opinions would be appreciated. I have felt the effect on my limited body weight on my mobility and exercise performance and enjoyment. These are to me trivial. My falls and fractures are a serious concern with the most recent one being about a half year ago. However, CR uber alles. However, I continue to have a chronic cough, albeit without serious lung infection. In the past, such mild upper respiratory tract symptoms have led to the serious lung infections, pneumonia and bronchitis. In light of the health risks that I face and the metastasis of my sister and the closest friend of Mom developing metastasis of his prostate cancer, my situation has, I believe, led me to adopt a determination and strategy to gain calories and body weight. It is my strategy that I bring to your attention. I changed by diet by adding 20 g of olive oil and 20 g of canola oil as part of my first of many small meals evenly spaced in time and containing somewhat more calories until the last 4 hours of each day. Looking at my total present fat sources, I have 10-15 g fat from pilchards (herring-like fatty fish) or salmon, the olive and canola oils, 8 g fat from flaxseeds and 2 g fat from filberts. For a description of many of these fats see: http://www.freshhempfoods.com/nutrition/comp-table.html and: http://www.andypryke.com/pub/EssentialFattyAcids and from within it: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2001/july2001_report_fat_01.html At first, I had frequent loose stools after commencing the extra olive and canola oils. I was also eating blended aging raw pumpkin, of which I was also suspicious. I was unable to gain weight and did not have the desire to take more oil, which I took as medicine, since I have no desire to have the oils and enjoy my other fat sources very much. These other sources are expensive for this frugal CRer and the fish have been suggested to consume in moderation. My strategy at that point to alleviate the loose stools and lack of weight gain was to stop oil consumption and cook the pumpkin while consuming less of it. This alleviated the loose stools situation, but was not efficient in terms of gaining weight. I carefully added first canola oil, which proved to cause no difficulties. Then I added increasing amounts of the olive oil, which was aged and somewhat suspect. All was fine and my weight gain thus far is encouraging. I will probably moderate the consumption of the oils once I obtain the desired weight gain, which is 10-12 pounds from my weight about 20 days ago. Is the lipid composition of my diet good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Congrats on making progress toward improving your well being. While hard to think of oil as a meal it is calorically dense. Do you ever eat nuts? you might want to include some walnuts and/or almonds as healthy fat sources. Do you still snack on popcorn? Air popped popcorn might be good with canola or OO spayed on it. Just talking about it is making me hungry, I put away my popper a while ago... I wouldn't be too concerned about stool viscosity within reason. Digestive flora may be adjusting to your new diet. Good luck with this new campaign, I suspect it is pretty difficult to break old patterns. I'm sure many here could give you advice on how we gain weight LOL. JR -----Original Message----- From: old542000 [mailto:apater@...] Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 1:33 PM Subject: [ ] Fats Hi All, I have found that I require more calories and body weight for my health and believe that I may have found a healthy fat formula, Your opinions would be appreciated. I have felt the effect on my limited body weight on my mobility and exercise performance and enjoyment. These are to me trivial. My falls and fractures are a serious concern with the most recent one being about a half year ago. However, CR uber alles. However, I continue to have a chronic cough, albeit without serious lung infection. In the past, such mild upper respiratory tract symptoms have led to the serious lung infections, pneumonia and bronchitis. In light of the health risks that I face and the metastasis of my sister and the closest friend of Mom developing metastasis of his prostate cancer, my situation has, I believe, led me to adopt a determination and strategy to gain calories and body weight. It is my strategy that I bring to your attention. I changed by diet by adding 20 g of olive oil and 20 g of canola oil as part of my first of many small meals evenly spaced in time and containing somewhat more calories until the last 4 hours of each day. Looking at my total present fat sources, I have 10-15 g fat from pilchards (herring-like fatty fish) or salmon, the olive and canola oils, 8 g fat from flaxseeds and 2 g fat from filberts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Hi Al: It is GREAT to see you gaining some weight. Bravo! Whatever works. Perhaps good advice would be if it works don't change it???? Having said that I do have two suggestions regarding fat intake. But first, as you know this is still not a fully understood science, nor am I any kind of qualified expert in this (but are there really ANY experts yet, given the present state of knowledge?) So here are my two suggestions for your consideration: First, as I understand it the principal 'essential' fat is linoleic. The oils that give you the highest proportions of linoleic are safflower and sunflower. This means that you can get the RDA for linoleic from them with the smallest number of calories. Perhaps minimizing calories is not important in your case. But it may be something to bear in mind. Second - and this is probably very important for all males - if you can do it and maintain your weight gain I would replace the canola oil and especially the flax seeds with your choice of alternatives. Safflower, sunflower or olive oils would all be good. Or high quality - not bargain priced - peanut oil. Olive tastes the best, of course. Almonds might also be a good replacement for flax seeds. I find that the combination of almonds and dried apricots a very interesting food match for snacking on at any time of day. Probably too big of a temptation for anyone who has difficulty restraining their appetite. The reason I suggest the changes is because flax has very high levels of ALA, while canola and soybean oils also have fairly sizeable amounts of it. Most other oils contain much smaller amounts. Many studies now confirm an apparent more than doubling in prostate cancer risk among men who consume the most, or have the highest blood levels of, ALA (alpha-linolenic acid) - especially ALA from plant sources. The latest report was from the Physicians Health Study. Prostate cancer, as you know, is a VERY common cancer, nearly as common in males (both for incidence and for deaths) as breast cancer is in females. Other suggestions regarding fish: I eat in rotation canned: herring, mackerel, salmon, tuna (if I can find it canned with water), sardines. I eat fresh salmon occasionally, poached. I also eat frozen mackerel. I thaw the mackerel, wash, split down the middle, along one side of the backbone, not quite all the way through so that it opens out and lies flat. Then I sprinkle it to just cover with seasoned flour (seasoned WHOLE GRAIN flour if you want!) and broil it three inches from the heat for about ten minutes. (Experiment to find what works best with your stove). I find this absolutely delicious. Add broccoli steamed over strongly boiling water for 11 minutes for green veggies. Perfect. But FOR SURE, whatever works best to achieve your objectives. Rodney. --- In , " old542000 " <apater@m...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have found that I require more calories and body weight > for my health and believe that I may have found a healthy > fat formula, Your opinions would be appreciated. > > I have felt the effect on my limited body weight on my > mobility and exercise performance and enjoyment. These > are to me trivial. My falls and fractures are a serious concern > with the most recent one being about a half year ago. However, > CR uber alles. > > However, I continue to have a chronic cough, albeit without > serious lung infection. In the past, such mild upper respiratory > tract symptoms have led to the serious lung infections, > pneumonia and bronchitis. > > In light of the health risks that I face and the metastasis of > my sister and the closest friend of Mom developing metastasis > of his prostate cancer, my situation has, I believe, led me to > adopt a determination and strategy to gain calories and body > weight. > > It is my strategy that I bring to your attention. > > I changed by diet by adding 20 g of olive oil and 20 g of > canola oil as part of my first of many small meals evenly > spaced in time and containing somewhat more calories > until the last 4 hours of each day. > Looking at my total present fat sources, I have 10-15 g > fat from pilchards (herring-like fatty fish) or salmon, the > olive and canola oils, 8 g fat from flaxseeds and 2 g fat > from filberts. > > For a description of many of these fats see: > > http://www.freshhempfoods.com/nutrition/comp-table.html > > and: > > http://www.andypryke.com/pub/EssentialFattyAcids > > and from within it: > > http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2001/july2001_report_fat_01.html > > At first, I had frequent loose stools after commencing the > extra olive and canola oils. I was also eating blended aging > raw pumpkin, of which I was also suspicious. I was unable > to gain weight and did not have the desire to take more > oil, which I took as medicine, since I have no desire to > have the oils and enjoy my other fat sources very much. > These other sources are expensive for this frugal CRer > and the fish have been suggested to consume in > moderation. > > My strategy at that point to alleviate the loose stools > and lack of weight gain was to stop oil consumption > and cook the pumpkin while consuming less of it. This > alleviated the loose stools situation, but was not > efficient in terms of gaining weight. I carefully added > first canola oil, which proved to cause no difficulties. > Then I added increasing amounts of the olive oil, > which was aged and somewhat suspect. All was fine > and my weight gain thus far is encouraging. > > I will probably moderate the consumption of the oils > once I obtain the desired weight gain, which is 10-12 > pounds from my weight about 20 days ago. > > Is the lipid composition of my diet good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Hi JR: Don't forget the ALA in walnuts. Someone just bought me a huge great bag of them : ^ ((( Rodney. --- In , " " <crjohnr@b...> wrote: > Congrats on making progress toward improving your well being. While hard to think of oil as a meal > it is calorically dense. > > Do you ever eat nuts? you might want to include some walnuts and/or almonds as healthy fat sources. > > Do you still snack on popcorn? Air popped popcorn might be good with canola or OO spayed on it. Just > talking about it is making me hungry, I put away my popper a while ago... > > I wouldn't be too concerned about stool viscosity within reason. Digestive flora may be adjusting to > your new diet. > > Good luck with this new campaign, I suspect it is pretty difficult to break old patterns. I'm sure > many here could give you advice on how we gain weight LOL. > > JR > > -----Original Message----- > From: old542000 [mailto:apater@m...] > Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 1:33 PM > > Subject: [ ] Fats > > > > > Hi All, > > I have found that I require more calories and body weight > for my health and believe that I may have found a healthy > fat formula, Your opinions would be appreciated. > > I have felt the effect on my limited body weight on my > mobility and exercise performance and enjoyment. These > are to me trivial. My falls and fractures are a serious concern > with the most recent one being about a half year ago. However, > CR uber alles. > > However, I continue to have a chronic cough, albeit without > serious lung infection. In the past, such mild upper respiratory > tract symptoms have led to the serious lung infections, > pneumonia and bronchitis. > > In light of the health risks that I face and the metastasis of > my sister and the closest friend of Mom developing metastasis > of his prostate cancer, my situation has, I believe, led me to > adopt a determination and strategy to gain calories and body > weight. > > It is my strategy that I bring to your attention. > > I changed by diet by adding 20 g of olive oil and 20 g of > canola oil as part of my first of many small meals evenly > spaced in time and containing somewhat more calories > until the last 4 hours of each day. > Looking at my total present fat sources, I have 10-15 g > fat from pilchards (herring-like fatty fish) or salmon, the > olive and canola oils, 8 g fat from flaxseeds and 2 g fat > from filberts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 I used to snack on walnuts for good n3/n6 ratio but quit a while back because I couldn't manage well and would eat too many.. now I eat zero. So if you believe they are bad, I am now eating better. :-) I have had to add some calories elsewhere because I was dropping weight.... Started making my vegetable cornbread again,,, Since most AL folks don't even like to listen to me describe the ingredients list I won't waste bandwidth. It isn't conventional by any standard. JR -----Original Message----- From: Rodney [mailto:perspect1111@...] Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 3:57 PM Subject: [ ] Re: Fats Hi JR: Don't forget the ALA in walnuts. Someone just bought me a huge great bag of them : ^ ((( Rodney. --- In , " " <crjohnr@b...> wrote: > Congrats on making progress toward improving your well being. While hard to think of oil as a meal > it is calorically dense. > > Do you ever eat nuts? you might want to include some walnuts and/or almonds as healthy fat sources. > > Do you still snack on popcorn? Air popped popcorn might be good with canola or OO spayed on it. Just > talking about it is making me hungry, I put away my popper a while ago... > > I wouldn't be too concerned about stool viscosity within reason. Digestive flora may be adjusting to > your new diet. > > Good luck with this new campaign, I suspect it is pretty difficult to break old patterns. I'm sure > many here could give you advice on how we gain weight LOL. > > JR > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Al, Like many of the participants of this board, I have been following your health issues biting my tongue to keep myself from expressing an opinion. However, since now you ask for opinions, here is mine. From some of the posts about your biomarkers and lab results, it is evident that you are underweight, losing bone mass, and have the possibility of chronic allergies/infections that are affecting your lungs. It is not possible to give advice without knowing what your diet and lifestyle is like. From the number of postings that you make, it appears to me that you are sitting behind the computer many hours at a time. (By the way, I appreciate all the effort that you put into this). Here are some of my suggestions: 1) post your caloric intakes, proportion of macronutrients, and profile of fatty acids that you consume. In addition, indicate how much exercise you do. Also, post your measurements, height, weight, neck circumference and abdominal circumference. This will make it possible to see the whole picture of what is going on. Currently, we don't know if you are starving yourself or whether you are eating enough to sustain you. I was recently doing some H-B calculations from some data on the crsociety member profiles and was surprised to see that Liza was eating many calories less than predicted by the calculations, but she seems to be in a steady state and confirms that her caloric intake in the profile is accurate. 2) With regard to fatty acid ratios, human fat is similar to lard in composition. The most beneficial ratio in your diet would be something similar to what your body will eventually store. It seems to me that you may be consuming too many unsaturated fatty acids. Of course, you have to have sufficient EFAs, but good health is a matter of maintaining the proper equilibrium. 3) The bone loss problem may be due to not enough calcium, magnesium, phosporus, fluorine, and other minerals that get integrated into the bone. Additionally, you have to consume enough protein to sustain the collagen matrix that forms the bones. Many postings indicate that protein requirements increase with age and with caloric restriction. 4) About your lungs: If you don't do exercise that is strenuous enough to make you pant, and force you to take deep breaths, your lungs cannot clean themselves of the airborne contaminants that accumulate in the lungs and bronchial passages. Ciliary movement is what keeps the lungs clean. In a cold climate such as yours, you are inside all the time. Dust from rugs, walls, pet dander, fungal spores, smoke from fireplaces and furnaces can agravate your situation. Breathe fresh air and do some moderate exercise. I would not be surprised if occasionally eating some eggs fried in bacon grease, and a glass of milk would be the right prescription for you. Best wishes, Tony >>> From: " old542000 " <apater@m...> Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:33 pm Subject: Fats Hi All, I have found that I require more calories and body weight for my health and believe that I may have found a healthy fat formula, Your opinions would be appreciated. I have felt the effect on my limited body weight on my mobility and exercise performance and enjoyment. These are to me trivial. My falls and fractures are a serious concern with the most recent one being about a half year ago. However, CR uber alles. However, I continue to have a chronic cough, albeit without serious lung infection. In the past, such mild upper respiratory tract symptoms have led to the serious lung infections, pneumonia and bronchitis. In light of the health risks that I face and the metastasis of my sister and the closest friend of Mom developing metastasis of his prostate cancer, my situation has, I believe, led me to adopt a determination and strategy to gain calories and body weight. It is my strategy that I bring to your attention. I changed by diet by adding 20 g of olive oil and 20 g of canola oil as part of my first of many small meals evenly spaced in time and containing somewhat more calories until the last 4 hours of each day. Looking at my total present fat sources, I have 10-15 g fat from pilchards (herring-like fatty fish) or salmon, the olive and canola oils, 8 g fat from flaxseeds and 2 g fat from filberts. .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Hi All and Rodney, Thanks. However, see: " It is now recognized however, that dietary linoleic (LA) favours oxidative modification of LDL chol, increases platelet response to aggregation, and suppresses the immune system. In contrast, alpha linolenic acid (n-3) (ALA) has been found in several studies to exert positive effects in reducing CHD mortality risk. The major effect of n-3 PUFA appears to be anti-arrhythmic rather than anti- atherothrombotic. The emphasis is on the dietary ratio of LA to ALA, rather than the absolute amounts of ALA, that is critical for disease prevention, due to the competition between these two essential PUFAs for their entry into the elongation and desaturation pathways leading to the synthesis of their respective eicosanoids. " PMID: 15294485 Cheers, Al Pater. --- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...> wrote: > > > So here are my two suggestions for your consideration: > > First, as I understand it the principal 'essential' fat is linoleic. > The oils that give you the highest proportions of linoleic are > safflower and sunflower. This means that you can get the RDA for > linoleic from them with the smallest number of calories. Perhaps > minimizing calories is not important in your case. But it may be > something to bear in mind. > > Second - and this is probably very important for all males - if you > can do it and maintain your weight gain I would replace the canola > oil and especially the flax seeds with your choice of alternatives. > Safflower, sunflower or olive oils would all be good. Or high > quality - not bargain priced - peanut oil. Olive tastes the best, of > course. Almonds might also be a good replacement for flax seeds. I > find that the combination of almonds and dried apricots a very > interesting food match for snacking on at any time of day. Probably > too big of a temptation for anyone who has difficulty restraining > their appetite. > > The reason I suggest the changes is because flax has very high levels > of ALA, while canola and soybean oils also have fairly sizeable > amounts of it. Most other oils contain much smaller amounts. Many > studies now confirm an apparent more than doubling in prostate cancer > risk among men who consume the most, or have the highest blood levels > of, ALA (alpha-linolenic acid) - especially ALA from plant sources. > The latest report was from the Physicians Health Study. Prostate > cancer, as you know, is a VERY common cancer, nearly as common in > males (both for incidence and for deaths) as breast cancer is in > females. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Hi All, Of help in most of your suggestions is the below, a file that I have maintained. Cheers, Al. March 13, 2004. Some updated notes on the weight loss, diet and their health effects for Alan Pater. My previous notes of March, 1990 are used to formulate the basis of this update. A. Weight loss My weight from my March 13, 1990 125 pounds is now 100 pounds [always taken naked in the morning upon rising and voiding my bladder and sometimes my bowels (but I have found that, when I have a morning bowel movement, my weight measures 1-2 pounds higher, probably due to the water that has not yet been removed from the colon contents that replace that which is voided)]. However, then ~ I drifted down from my March, 1990 weight of 125 pounds to 115 pounds when my wife passed away in Nov. 1994. Again, I drifted lower in weight to 190 pounds in February, 1998 and developed left lung pneumonia followed 3 months later with a right lung recurrence, which prompted an ~ 45 pounds of weight gain, going ad lib Pritikin dieting, over ~ 6 months. I then lost weight and tried to settle at 125 pounds and then 115 pounds, but over ~ 8 months drifted down to 100 pounds in Apr., 1999. Then, I much more slowly returned to ~ 197 pounds. I developed bronchitis at this point, went to ~ 103 pounds and then down again to ~ 197 pounds over ~ 5 months in Nov., 2002. Again, I lost weight to ~ 190 pounds in Mar. 2003, developed right lung pneumonia, and that resulted in a low-glucose crisis. B. Diet My diet is for the last ~ 4 years has been modestly-low-fat, with 150>125>70 g/day fatty fish fat (capelin in Newfoundland and pilchards ~ herring in BC), 6 g/day walnut, almonds and hazelnuts fat and 5 g/day flaxseeds fat. My C-P-F ratio is: 63-20-17. I eat 70 fatty fish/day and ~ 100 ml = 0.4 cup skim milk/day. I take more vegetables in BC and most is raw, except for boiled tomatoes and steamed legumes, grains and fish. I was vegan, not supplementing vitamins or minerals, very-low protein dieting and deficient in good fats preceding my first case of pneumonia and most of my fractures (see below for my fracture history). I took 2 drinks of alcohol/day for ~ 2001-2003, and then 1 drink since I terminated consumption a month ago. In BC, my vegetable consumption have greatly increased at the expense of popcorn, which I now no longer have been taking for the last week. I maintain garlic powder and raw onions and added in BC turmeric and recently 2 teaspoons of salt/day. I supplement ~ 60 mg vitamin A, 70 IU ACOR vitamin E mixture, 0.5 g Ca^++, 500 IU vitamin D and 200 mg MgCl(2). C. Health changes 1) These are mostly outlined above. 2) The hip fracture I had later in last year still makes sleeping on my sides somewhat uncomfortable and abbreviated. Previously, I have had a neck fracture many years pre-CR, and after initiating CR 3 rib fractures, another hip fracture and a broken arm. 3) My blood immune cells are extremely low, my testosterone has increased somewhat to ~ 40% of the low in the normal reference range. My thyroid T3 hormone is low and TSH is high, averaging ~ twice the high in the normal reference range. My sodium chloride level is low and serum osmolarity is low. 4) My sleep is longer than it has been since the first couple of years on CR. D Future plans. Increase my weight from my current 100 pounds (with ~ 3 pounds fluid in my left leg, mainly between my knee and ankle) to ~ 110 pounds. Also, maintain my approximate diet. Alan Pater, 8/23/2002 food intake data Exchanges: Starch VLM Veg Fru S Milk Fat Carbs 11.46 4.25 3.63 1.96 0.2 4.64 0 Nutrients: Calories Protein Carbs Fat Sat Fat Chol Sodium Fiber 1685 86.72 301 33.6 5.7 79. 540 58.7 CPF Ratio: 63-18-16 CSI and Common Ratios Report for Alan Pater 8/23/2002 Cholesterol-Saturated Fat Index (CSI) Cholesterol* Saturated Fat CSI 79.00 5.73 9.7 Generally speaking, the lower the CSI value, the better. Polyunsaturated Fat : Saturated Fat Ratio Polyunsaturated Fat Saturated Fat Ratio 13.35 5.73 2.3:1 Generally, there should be more polyunsaturated than saturated fat. This means the ratio should be slightly greater than 1:1. Potassium : Sodium Ratio Potassium Sodium Ratio 5889 540 10.9:1 Generally, this ratio should be at 1:1 or with a slight preference for Potassium. Calcium : Phosphorus Ratio Calcium Phosphorus Ratio 1200 1780 0.7:1 Recommendations range from 3:1 to 1:3; however, most would agree that 1:1 is adequate. Omega 6 : Omega 3 Ratio Omega 6 Omega 3 Ratio 9.11 3.57 2.6 The recommended range is generally about 1:1. However, typical Americans have an intake ratio of about 20:1 or higher. At a conference in April 1999 at the National Institutes of Health, experts from around the world reached a consensus that a ratio greater than 4:1 in unhealthy. Percent of Goals for Alan Pater 8/23/2002 Nutrient Goal Percent Calories (kcal) 55.2% Protein (g) 75.7% Carbohydrates (g) 56.3% Fat (g) 66.0% Saturated Fat (g) 33.8% Cholesterol (mg) 84.0% Total Dietary Fiber (g) 624% Water (g) 416% Vitamin A (IU) 1740% Thiamin (mg) 667% Riboflavin (mg) 344% Niacin (mg) 564% Vitamin B-6 (mg) 339% Total Folate (mcg) 907% Vitamin B-12 (mcg) 2690% Vitamin C (mg) 1187% Vitamin D (IU) 6% Vitamin E (IU) 308% Vitamin K (mcg) ?% Calcium (mg) 100% Iodine (mcg) ?% Iron (mg) 113% Magnesium (mg) 660% Phosphorus (mg) 669% Selenium (mcg) 410% Sodium (mg) 67% Zinc (mg) 214% All Foods ORANGE, W/PEEL, RAW, 100 grams RAISIN, SEEDLESS, 1 small box, 1.5 grams CARROT, BOILED, NO SALT, drained, 50 grams CABBAGE, RAW, 60 grams MULTIGRAIN CEREAL, DRY, Quaker, 50 grams CORN, YELLOW, RAW, 875 grams CELERY, RAW, 20 grams TOMATO PASTE, CANNED, NO SALT, canned, 70 grams DANDELION GREENS, BOILED, NO SALT, drained, 100 grams COFFEE, BREWED, PREPARED, prep w/distilled water, 400 grams MILK, COW'S, NONFAT (SKIM), fluid w/o added Vit-A, 50 grams RHUBARB, RAW, 120 grams GARLIC POWDER, 1 gram ONE A DAY CALCIUM, One A Day calcium plus magnesium and vitamin D, 1 tablet IRON PLUS VITAMIN C, Shaklee, high potency Iron and Vitamin C, .2 tablet WATER, MUNICIPAL, 1500 grams ONION, RAW, 100 grams GIN, 90 PROOF, 20 mLs VINEGAR, APPLE CIDER, 0.5 oz APPLE, FROZEN, unsweetened, unheated, sliced, 120 grams SOYBEAN, BOILED, NO SALT, mature, 6 grams LIMA BEANS, BABY, BOILED, NO SALT ADDED, immature seeds, frozen, drained, 30 grams HERRING, ATLANTIC, RAW, 130 grams WHEAT BRAN, CRUDE, miller's bran, dry, 11 grams GELATIN MIX, DRY, dry powder, unsweetened, 0.4 pkg ZUCCHINI W/SKIN, RAW. summer squash, 60 grams FLAX SEED, 4 grams WALNUT, BLACK, DRIED, 6 grams CANOLA OIL (RAPESEED OIL), 0.9 gram OLIVE OIL, salad or cooking, 0.9 gram http://lists.calorierestriction.org/cgi-bin/wa? A2=ind0208 & L=crsociety & P=R60395 & X=4D90C22F9DDC5F1D12 & Y=apater@... = Subject: Al Pater Diet Report Card on August 23, 2002, NutriBase analysis. Fats Hi All, I have found that I require more calories and body weight for my health and believe that I may have found a healthy fat formula, Your opinions would be appreciated. I have felt the effect on my limited body weight on my mobility and exercise performance and enjoyment. These are to me trivial. My falls and fractures are a serious concern with the most recent one being about a half year ago. However, CR uber alles. However, I continue to have a chronic cough, albeit without serious lung infection. In the past, such mild upper respiratory tract symptoms have led to the serious lung infections, pneumonia and bronchitis. In light of the health risks that I face and the metastasis of my sister and the closest friend of Mom developing metastasis of his prostate cancer, my situation has, I believe, led me to adopt a determination and strategy to gain calories and body weight. It is my strategy that I bring to your attention. I changed by diet by adding 20 g of olive oil and 20 g of canola oil as part of my first of many small meals evenly spaced in time and containing somewhat more calories until the last 4 hours of each day. Looking at my total present fat sources, I have 10-15 g fat from pilchards (herring-like fatty fish) or salmon, the olive and canola oils, 8 g fat from flaxseeds and 2 g fat from filberts. Far a description of many of these fats see: http://www.freshhempfoods.com/nutrition/comp-table.html and: http://www.andypryke.com/pub/EssentialFattyAcids and from within it: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2001/july2001_report_fat_01.html At first, I had frequent loose stools after commencing the extra olive and canola oils. I was also eating blended aging raw pumpkin, of which I was also suspicious. I was unable to gain weight and did not have the desire to take more oil, which I took as medicine, since I have no desire to have the oils and enjoy my other fat sources very much. These other sources are expensive for this frugal CRer and the fish have been suggested to consume in moderation. My strategy at that point to alleviate the loose stools and lack of weight gain was to stop oil consumption and cook the pumpkin while consuming less of it. This alleviated the loose stools situation, but was not efficient in terms of gaining weight. I carefully added first canola oil, which proved to cause no difficulties. Then I added increasing amounts of the olive oil, which was aged and somewhat suspect. All was fine and my weight gain thus far is encouraging. I will probably moderate the consumption of the oils once I obtain the desired weight gain, which is 10-12 pounds from my weight about 20 days ago. Is the lipid composition of my diet good? At 1900 calories/day, 612 calories from added fat sources, and 5% = 95 calories from the remainder of my diet, I am ~37% fat consuming. > > Al, > > Like many of the participants of this board, I have been following > your health issues biting my tongue to keep myself from expressing an > opinion. However, since now you ask for opinions, here is mine. > > From some of the posts about your biomarkers and lab results, it is > evident that you are underweight, losing bone mass, and have the > possibility of chronic allergies/infections that are affecting your > lungs. It is not possible to give advice without knowing what your > diet and lifestyle is like. From the number of postings that you > make, it appears to me that you are sitting behind the computer many > hours at a time. (By the way, I appreciate all the effort that you > put into this). > > Here are some of my suggestions: > > 1) post your caloric intakes, proportion of macronutrients, and > profile of fatty acids that you consume. In addition, indicate how > much exercise you do. Also, post your measurements, height, weight, > neck circumference and abdominal circumference. This will make it > possible to see the whole picture of what is going on. Currently, we > don't know if you are starving yourself or whether you are eating > enough to sustain you. I was recently doing some H-B calculations > from some data on the crsociety member profiles and was surprised to > see that Liza was eating many calories less than predicted by the > calculations, but she seems to be in a steady state and confirms that > her caloric intake in the profile is accurate. > > 2) With regard to fatty acid ratios, human fat is similar to lard in > composition. The most beneficial ratio in your diet would be > something similar to what your body will eventually store. It seems > to me that you may be consuming too many unsaturated fatty acids. Of > course, you have to have sufficient EFAs, but good health is a matter > of maintaining the proper equilibrium. > > 3) The bone loss problem may be due to not enough calcium, magnesium, > phosporus, fluorine, and other minerals that get integrated into the > bone. Additionally, you have to consume enough protein to sustain the > collagen matrix that forms the bones. Many postings indicate that > protein requirements increase with age and with caloric restriction. > > 4) About your lungs: If you don't do exercise that is strenuous > enough to make you pant, and force you to take deep breaths, your > lungs cannot clean themselves of the airborne contaminants that > accumulate in the lungs and bronchial passages. Ciliary movement is > what keeps the lungs clean. In a cold climate such as yours, you are > inside all the time. Dust from rugs, walls, pet dander, fungal > spores, smoke from fireplaces and furnaces can agravate your > situation. Breathe fresh air and do some moderate exercise. > > I would not be surprised if occasionally eating some eggs fried in > bacon grease, and a glass of milk would be the right prescription for > you. > > Best wishes, > > Tony > > >>> > From: " old542000 " <apater@m...> > Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:33 pm > Subject: Fats > > > Hi All, > > I have found that I require more calories and body weight > for my health and believe that I may have found a healthy > fat formula, Your opinions would be appreciated. > > I have felt the effect on my limited body weight on my > mobility and exercise performance and enjoyment. These > are to me trivial. My falls and fractures are a serious concern > with the most recent one being about a half year ago. However, > CR uber alles. > > However, I continue to have a chronic cough, albeit without > serious lung infection. In the past, such mild upper respiratory > tract symptoms have led to the serious lung infections, > pneumonia and bronchitis. > > In light of the health risks that I face and the metastasis of > my sister and the closest friend of Mom developing metastasis > of his prostate cancer, my situation has, I believe, led me to > adopt a determination and strategy to gain calories and body > weight. > > It is my strategy that I bring to your attention. > > I changed by diet by adding 20 g of olive oil and 20 g of > canola oil as part of my first of many small meals evenly > spaced in time and containing somewhat more calories > until the last 4 hours of each day. > Looking at my total present fat sources, I have 10-15 g > fat from pilchards (herring-like fatty fish) or salmon, the > olive and canola oils, 8 g fat from flaxseeds and 2 g fat > from filberts. > ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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