Guest guest Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 I don't know if the news media reported his numbers, but during his last exam, but Clinton's total cholesterol was 233mg/dL which wasn't extremely high [160<->200 optimal]. However, his LDL was 177 mg/dL [< 100 optimal] and blood pressure 136/84 [<= 119/79 optimal]. He was prescribed a statin before leaving, but decided on his own to stop taking it after losing weight. So maybe he could have lived a little bit longer, but at 90% occlusion, the statin sure wasn't going reverse his artherosclerosis. Logan > > No, I'm not baiting. I offer what I read for discussion. > > Chitosan of course, binds to fat in the gut and does not remove fat > from arteries. It may serve to keep some away from the arteries, > perhaps. > > The runners had clogged arteries and as well I know it Ornish is > the only claim to removing that fat/plaque, whatever. Searching the > words cholesterol metabolism gets a lot of unrelated stuff. And > that's why I asked. I was hoping Jeff, maybe would comment. > > > > But the thing I've noticed is that just because someone runs does > not guarantee clear arteries. And maybe it doesn't even promote clear > arteries. We see Atherosclerosis developing even in teens and pre- > teens by some mechanism. Ref the Bogalusa Heart Study of teen > autopsies. Even 6 yo can show elevated BP. > > > > And the son of a friend, a very " fit " looking 20yo football player > at Ga, died in his dorm, 90% clogged. Her other 2 children have > partially clogged arteries and they are not obese. So I must guess > some other mechanism is at work. > > > > But to get back to this 1985 book, the only reason I posted it, is > because it lists the names of 16 prominent dead runners, including > Fixx: > > > > Jim Dooley, 37 > > e, 49, physiologist > > Col. Giles Hall, 50, a 20 year jogger > > Dr. Summers, 54, Miami Heart Institute > > Dr. Lauth, 46, American Heart Institute > > Dr. Doroff, 49, 18 mile training run > > Duane Armstong, 59, > > Ron Holmes, 37 > > Dr. W. Royce, Jr., 51 > > Peek, 58 > > Russ Hargreaves, 67 > > Dodge , 29, > > Bill English, 19, football player > > Chuck , 28, Lions Receiver > > Jim Fixx, 52 > > Jacques Bussereau, 48 - 1984 NY marathon > > > > {And my friend Coutret, who arose every morning at 6 am and > ran 5 miles before going to work. Died picking up a snow shovel, at > 65yo.} > > > > Pritikin quotes Dr. Ernst Jokl; " Among the postmortem findings, > coronary atherosclerosis and degenerative changes of the myocardium > were the most frequent....... > > " Even the most strenuous exercise will not cause death in subjects > with normal Hearts " . > > > > Dr. reported data for each sedentary man who > experienced sudden death there were 7 joggers! > > > > {Ok, so I'll check for myself.} > > > > Pediatric Clinics of North America > > Volume 51 . Number 5 . October 2004 > > > > Exercise recommendations and risk factors for sudden cardiac death > > To this end, in 1994 the 26th Bethesda Conference undertook the > task of re-evaluating the risk of sports participation among athletes > who have cardiovascular disease and derived a consensus on disease- > specific competitive sports limitations [1] > > > > A study to determine the incidence of the problem was conducted > among Minnesota high school athletes; the risk of sudden death was > estimated to be 1 case/200,000 population per year [9] . The > prevalence of underlying or undiagnosed cardiac disease in the > general population is unclear. > > > > Risk factors for sudden cardiac death > > The fact that many young athletes who experienced sudden death were > believed to be completely healthy incorrectly led to the belief that > no precipitating cause could be found. In reality, the most common > reason for sudden death is significant cardiovascular disease, either > anatomic or arrhythmogenic [3] [4] [5] [10] [11] . Hypertrophic > cardiomyopathy (HCM), a condition that occurs in approximately 2 in > 1000 individuals in the general population, is the most common cause > of sudden cardiac death [11] [12] . > > > > HCM consists of a diverse group of primary cardiac muscle > abnormalities that result in abnormal thickening of the myocardium, > generally the left ventricle [13] . ...Several genetic markers that > represent various proteins in the myocardial contractile apparatus > have been implicated in causing this abnormal hypertrophy. Although > HCM occur in an isolated individual, in many cases there is a > familial pattern of inheritance with variable expression. The > mechanism for sudden death is not understood completely but is > believed to be arrhythmogenic in nature. Other factors that were > found to identify a population at risk for sudden death with HCM > include young age at diagnosis, syncope at diagnosis, severe dyspnea, > or positive family history of sudden death from HCM [14] [15] . > > > > {I pass the baton. I believe I will walk.} > > > > Regards. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 9:18 PM > > Subject: RE: [ ] How much is enuf? > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: jwwright [mailto:jwwright@e...] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 6:12 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [ ] How much exercise is euf? > > > > > > > > BTW, I've just been reading a Pritikin book, Diet for Runners, > and I don't want to sound like I'm pushing pritikin's program, but > there is some good data on runners who have had heart attacks and the > (his) reason for it. Fixx was not the only one. Worth the 3$ I paid > for it. > > > > I submit the one statement, pg 73: " Cholesterol cannot be > cleaned out by running. Cholesterol cannot be used for fuel. " That's > his statement and I've yet to find a confirming source for it. > Comments? > > > > Regards. > > > > I hope you're not baiting me to disagree with Pritikin. > > > > I never much though about interactions between running and > cholesterol. About the only associated mechanism that comes to mind > is that exercise increases HDL which is a scavenger for LDL which > carries cholesterol. Running is generally healthful and I believe > improves HDL/LDL ratio, but its not magic. > > > > A quick search of cholesterol metabolism on the WWW turns up a > lot of words I can't pronounce but no direct association with energy > pathways. I suspect out body might " eat " it eventually, but only > after consuming all glycogen, adipose, protein(?) and whatever else > it can grab first. I doubt jogging around the block will get us there. > > > > AFAIK the direct way to reduce cholesterol is to bind up the > bile acids (made from cholesterol) in our digestive track so they > will be passed instead of being recaptured for re-use. There was a > popular intervention using a specially designed resin that did this > (cholestrymine ?). I think it was mentioned in an early Walford book > as a cheat, allowing one to eat fat while not absorbing it. There is > also a popular health food store supplement " Chitosan " based on some > marine exoskeleton that is reported to bind to fats. I think these > have replaced with different medical interventions these days. " I > don't wan't want no messy powder, give me a neat little pill. " > > > > I suspect a dietary intervention combining low ingested > cholesterol while high in vegetable fiber that will increase the > transist speed through the intestine, will trap some of the bile > present while the reduced transit time will also diminish bile > recapture for re-use. The body will then need to convert existing > cholesterol to generate new bile to replace what was lost. > > > > I'm not sure how or if the amount of dietary fat consumption > plays into the amount of bile in circulation but since it's purpose > is to aide in digestion/absorption there may be some relationship. > > > > I don't know that the presence or quantity of circulating > cholesterol is " the " dominant mechanism for heart disease. > Cholesterol is always present and is essential for multiple bodily > processes. I seem to recall something about cholesterol being > deposited in response to some insult. But I could be wrong. > > > > JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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