Soy: friend or foe?

[Guest guest]

Lots of talk about the good or bad of soy, so I did a little looking around. Most of us think, or have always thought, that soy was beneficial to our health. I found these articles that say otherwise:

http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/Lsoy5.htm

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/soydoerge.htm

http://www.litalee.com/shopexd.asp?id=188

http://www.the7thfire.com/health_and_nutrition/soy_and_the_brain.htm

I searched "soy toxicity" and got 237 hits. I'm sure if I search "soy for good health" or something similar, I'll get just as many there too. I don't like soy very much, so this dilemma is not mine. I just thought I would point out that it's not just a bunch of nuts somewhere who think that soy is bad for us. There are some learned people who feel the same way.

Pam

[Guest guest]

Thanks Pam for this info. I've read it all and yes it's pretty scary. I went to see a Homeopathic doc today and he did not disagree with the soy being toxic and told me I need a protein that does not have soy, which most of them do. Even though it doesn't have it in the list of ingredients look carefully, it will say "contains milk and soy products", by itself. Thanks again. Hugs H

From: Pam <pmarshall@...>Subject: Soy: friend or foe?dominie Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 7:44 PM

Lots of talk about the good or bad of soy, so I did a little looking around. Most of us think, or have always thought, that soy was beneficial to our health. I found these articles that say otherwise:

http://www.alkalize forhealth. net/Lsoy5. htm

http://www.thyroid- info.com/ articles/ soydoerge. htm

http://www.litalee. com/shopexd. asp?id=188

http://www.the7thfi re.com/health_ and_nutrition/ soy_and_the_ brain.htm

I searched "soy toxicity" and got 237 hits. I'm sure if I search "soy for good health" or something similar, I'll get just as many there too. I don't like soy very much, so this dilemma is not mine. I just thought I would point out that it's not just a bunch of nuts somewhere who think that soy is bad for us. There are some learned people who feel the same way.

Pam

[Guest guest]

I have just returned from an appointment with my chiropractor. He carries a line of supplements by Anabolic Laboratories (http://www.anaboliclabs.com). While I was at his office, I told him about our on-going discussions about soy and asked how he felt about it. He told me: "Soy is terrible for you." He gave me some literature from Anabolic Labs that contains this passage:

"All grains and legumes (beans, lentils, soy) also contain sugar proteins known as lectins. Lectins are difficult to digest and cook. Before they are absorbed in the digestive tract, lectins are known to cause digestive system inflammation. After lectins are absorbed through digestion they bind to the surface of many different types of cells throughout the body. While the details are not known, researchers state, "There is now abundant evidence that lectins can cause disease in man and animals." Research suggests arthritis, glomerulonephritis, psoriasis, multiple sclerosis, retinitis, cataracts, as well as congenital malformations, infertility, allergies, and autoimmune problems are lectin related."

As I have said, soy is not something I find very appetizing, so none of this is a problem for me.

Pam

Soy: friend or foe?dominie Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 7:44 PM

Lots of talk about the good or bad of soy, so I did a little looking around. Most of us think, or have always thought, that soy was beneficial to our health. I found these articles that say otherwise:

http://www.alkalize forhealth. net/Lsoy5. htm

http://www.thyroid- info.com/ articles/ soydoerge. htm

http://www.litalee. com/shopexd. asp?id=188

http://www.the7thfi re.com/health_ and_nutrition/ soy_and_the_ brain.htm

I searched "soy toxicity" and got 237 hits. I'm sure if I search "soy for good health" or something similar, I'll get just as many there too. I don't like soy very much, so this dilemma is not mine. I just thought I would point out that it's not just a bunch of nuts somewhere who think that soy is bad for us. There are some learned people who feel the same way.

Pam

[Guest guest]

Thanks Pam for updating me on the Soy issue. I've not consumed any soy since this discussion began and don't intend to. Since I'm a vegan and would be consuming beans, other than soy, is the doctor suggesting that we shouldn't eat beans either because of the lectins? Before long, I'm going to end up just consuming water and that's not even safe!

Thanks again. Hugs H

From: Pam <pmarshallnc (DOT) rr.com>Subject: Soy: friend or foe?dominie@groups .comDate: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 7:44 PM

Lots of talk about the good or bad of soy, so I did a little looking around. Most of us think, or have always thought, that soy was beneficial to our health. I found these articles that say otherwise:

http://www.alkalize forhealth. net/Lsoy5. htm

http://www.thyroid- info.com/ articles/ soydoerge. htm

http://www.litalee. com/shopexd. asp?id=188

http://www.the7thfi re.com/health_ and_nutrition/ soy_and_the_ brain.htm

I searched "soy toxicity" and got 237 hits. I'm sure if I search "soy for good health" or something similar, I'll get just as many there too. I don't like soy very much, so this dilemma is not mine. I just thought I would point out that it's not just a bunch of nuts somewhere who think that soy is bad for us. There are some learned people who feel the same way.

Pam

[Guest guest]

You know, people have been eating beans forever. They are supposed to be the healthiest food out there. Now we should not eat them because

they have lectins?

What other foods have them?

I think we can get nutty with all this stuff. Is there a good food to eat?

Ellie Gunterwww.emaginedesigns.com727-393-2226

Soy: friend or foe?dominie@groups .comDate: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 7:44 PM

Lots of talk about the good or bad of soy, so I did a little looking around. Most of us think, or have always thought, that soy was beneficial to our health. I found these articles that say otherwise:

http://www.alkalize forhealth. net/Lsoy5. htm

http://www.thyroid- info.com/ articles/ soydoerge. htm

http://www.litalee. com/shopexd. asp?id=188

http://www.the7thfi re.com/health_ and_nutrition/ soy_and_the_ brain.htm

I searched "soy toxicity" and got 237 hits. I'm sure if I search "soy for good health" or something similar, I'll get just as many there too. I don't like soy very much, so this dilemma is not mine. I just thought I would point out that it's not just a bunch of nuts somewhere who think that soy is bad for us. There are some learned people who feel the same way.

Pam

[Guest guest]

I rarely have the time to read the posts, but I opened up one of the

message digests this morning just to check out what people were

talking about, then say this. All of this talk about Soy being

dangerous is absurd for the average person, and by that I mean

someone who doesn't have a diagnosed thyroid disease. No, I don't

have a PhD in nutrition; HOWEVER, I've been a Vegetarian for 26 years

and a Vegan for 18 of those years. I haven't just done this blindly.

I've read TONS of nutritional articles over these years and the one

thing I can say that experts in reversing self-induced degenerative

diseases would agree on: it's the American diet that is killing

people.

The main " large " study used most frequently is the " China Study. "

Which pretty much summarizes what a lot of other studies, say: The

more fruits, veggies, grains, legumes (YES, That includes SOY) and

the less animal derrived products, the better. Large populations of

people prove this. If soy is so dangerous, why aren't there alarming

numbers of people becomming ill in the societies where this is a HUGE

staple? The fact is that in these communities, the people are

overwhelmingly more healthy than their meat and dairy eating

counterparts. When do those people start getting sick? The minute

they drop their traditional diet for an American Meat and Dairy diet.

Then BAM! These populations go from being healthy to becoming sick:

Obese, Diabetes, Breast Cancer, Osteoporosis.

Now, there is truth to the toxic chemical in beans, but it's rendered

harmless by COOKING them and also through processing (they are heated

while processed). I can't say I've ever met people who eat raw beans,

but I guess they are out there. Raw and sprouted seeds, yes; but

beans, no.

If you eat soy morning, noon, and night... yes... I imagine the anti-

soy studies carry some merit for you, but even I (a Vegan) who eats

massive amounts of soy (like the Asians who have not been corrupted

with an American diet) have the good sense to not eat it at every

single meal. I like it, but my gosh that would be boring. The one

thing I've adjusted to switching out all my soy milk consumption for

something even better: Almond Milk, which is AWESOME. It's delicious,

but you also get the good benefits that you get from Almonds without

the high fat. I save the soy milk for my weekend Vegan Cappuccinos:

Soy Milk works well for this purpose. I haven't found any other non-

dairy milks that can do the trick for a vegan cappuccino.

There's a ton of data out there to prove my comments, but again the

biggest proof is the overall health, then deterioration of the health

of the Chinese.

Go here: http://www.thechinastudy.com/about.html

Trust me, you'll recognize the name.

The source I trust MOST on the subject of diet is this website:

http://www.pcrm.org/

They have a WONDERFUL program you can sign up for: Free online

classes every Thursday regarding nutrition to prevent and cure

diabetes (no, they don't like and say they can cure people who have

lost all their insulin producing cells, but they CAN improve the

health of those people).

I like that site because they have a medical database where you can

look up information on various topics, e.g. Osteoporosis, plus they

work diligently to fight the myths spread by the meat and dairy

industry and as a group of physicians (vs. concerned parents) they

are quite successful. I can't remember the specific campaigns, but

due to their efforts, the daiy industry has had to change their adds

due to false claims that they can't back up.

The best source for people concerned about heart disease is Dean

Ornish, who has the only diet plan proven to REVERSE heart disease.

Not just halt progress, no just prevent, but actually REVERSE the

disease. You can probably just google Dean Ornish. LOL, you'll all

probably skip the book on heart disease and buy the " eat more, weigh

less " book:-) Doesn't matter, result is the same: a healthier body.

There is so much more I'd like to write, but I'm working 12 hour days

(see, how many people with CFIDS do you know that can do that... I

credit 1 drug + my diet for my health) so I don't have time to post

all the resources there are out there, but really PCRM is fantastic

and more than anything else you could need. In fact it is by far the

most RELEVANT site for this group because they have a book on Foods

that Fight Pain. Again, I'm a PWC and I'm the only person I know with

CFIDS that does not have FMS: again, credit my diet. Vegans eat a

very alkaline diet, and I know I saw someone bring this up in the

thread... Go to PCRMs website, bookmark it, visit it often, and if

you are free on Thursdays, sign up for the free nutrition classes.

Please, if you have any questions that you want me to read, email me

directly at: veganbikerbabe@... as again, I rarely read these

threads, but when I can find some time I will try to answer any

questions. I just cannot say enough about how a Vegan diet has

changed my life for the better. I would say there's zero chance of me

getting heart disease or dying of a heart attack, except my life is

full of stress, so I can just see the doctors scratching their heads

as they do my autopsy and get a good look at my heart and blood

vessels and see how clean and healthy it all is. How could this

person have just dropped dead like that? LOL, tell them someone cut

me off in trafic: they will probably be able to tell that from my

exploded head.

Anyway, please don't freak out about soy. Read all the info, make

SURE there are no links to the meat/dairy industry on the anti-soy

data, and use some common sense. It's not the soy that's killing the

Asians, it's the meat, dairy, and now that Melamine stuff! Yikes!

I wish you all good health and happiness and the strength to do the

work on attaining both.

Happy Holidays!

VeganBikerBabe

>

> From: Pam <pmarshallnc (DOT) rr.com>

> Subject: Soy: friend or foe?

> dominie@groups .com

> Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 7:44 PM

>

>

> Lots of talk about the good or bad of soy, so I

did a little looking around. Most of us think, or have always

thought, that soy was beneficial to our health. I found these

articles that say otherwise:

> http://www.alkalize forhealth. net/Lsoy5. htm

> http://www.thyroid- info.com/ articles/

soydoerge. htm

> http://www.litalee. com/shopexd. asp?id=188

> http://www.the7thfi re.com/health_

and_nutrition/ soy_and_the_ brain.htm

> I searched " soy toxicity " and got 237 hits.

I'm sure if I search " soy for good health " or something similar, I'll

get just as many there too. I don't like soy very much, so this

dilemma is not mine. I just thought I would point out that it's not

just a bunch of nuts somewhere who think that soy is bad for us.

There are some learned people who feel the same way.

> Pam

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, unfortunately he did include beans in with the soy issue.

Pam

Soy: friend or foe?dominie@groups ..comDate: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 7:44 PM

Lots of talk about the good or bad of soy, so I did a little looking around. Most of us think, or have always thought, that soy was beneficial to our health. I found these articles that say otherwise:

http://www.alkalize forhealth. net/Lsoy5. htm

http://www.thyroid- info.com/ articles/ soydoerge. htm

http://www.litalee. com/shopexd. asp?id=188

http://www.the7thfi re.com/health_ and_nutrition/ soy_and_the_ brain.htm

I searched "soy toxicity" and got 237 hits. I'm sure if I search "soy for good health" or something similar, I'll get just as many there too. I don't like soy very much, so this dilemma is not mine. I just thought I would point out that it's not just a bunch of nuts somewhere who think that soy is bad for us. There are some learned people who feel the same way.

Pam

[Guest guest]

Thank you for posting. It is good to know that there are others out there reading.I too was a vegetarian for a long time. However there is too much research and evidence that is concrete to ignore the problems with soy and a diet devoid of the proper amino acids. Those civilizations you talked about Dr. Weston Price studied first hand and wrote about. His research cannot be ignored and is considered to be brilliant. The societies you talk about eating soy actually ate and eat very little. If you have been to China or Japan they eat meats and organs,broths and lots of veggies. Soy plays a very small part of their diet. The American diet is terrible because of processed food,sugar, white flour, soda,fast

foods, pasta, the overeating, the lack of exercise,the lack of knowledge about their own bodies, the absence of fruit and vegetables from their diet, the stupid pyramid the goverment put out. The body is made to eat meats,fruits and vegetables. I know you have research to prove otherwise. However as I said Dr. Price did the research and as far as I am concerned it is stellar. You cannot find many a Naturopathic Doctor that would disagree.SueFrom: veganbikerbabe <veganbikerbabe@...>Subject: Re: Soy: friend or foe?dominie Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 9:07 AM

I rarely have the time to read the posts, but I opened up one of the

message digests this morning just to check out what people were

talking about, then say this. All of this talk about Soy being

dangerous is absurd for the average person, and by that I mean

someone who doesn't have a diagnosed thyroid disease. No, I don't

have a PhD in nutrition; HOWEVER, I've been a Vegetarian for 26 years

and a Vegan for 18 of those years. I haven't just done this blindly.

I've read TONS of nutritional articles over these years and the one

thing I can say that experts in reversing self-induced degenerative

diseases would agree on: it's the American diet that is killing

people.

The main "large" study used most frequently is the "China Study."

Which pretty much summarizes what a lot of other studies, say: The

more fruits, veggies, grains, legumes (YES, That includes SOY) and

the less animal derrived products, the better. Large populations of

people prove this. If soy is so dangerous, why aren't there alarming

numbers of people becomming ill in the societies where this is a HUGE

staple? The fact is that in these communities, the people are

overwhelmingly more healthy than their meat and dairy eating

counterparts. When do those people start getting sick? The minute

they drop their traditional diet for an American Meat and Dairy diet.

Then BAM! These populations go from being healthy to becoming sick:

Obese, Diabetes, Breast Cancer, Osteoporosis.

Now, there is truth to the toxic chemical in beans, but it's rendered

harmless by COOKING them and also through processing (they are heated

while processed). I can't say I've ever met people who eat raw beans,

but I guess they are out there. Raw and sprouted seeds, yes; but

beans, no.

If you eat soy morning, noon, and night... yes... I imagine the anti-

soy studies carry some merit for you, but even I (a Vegan) who eats

massive amounts of soy (like the Asians who have not been corrupted

with an American diet) have the good sense to not eat it at every

single meal. I like it, but my gosh that would be boring. The one

thing I've adjusted to switching out all my soy milk consumption for

something even better: Almond Milk, which is AWESOME. It's delicious,

but you also get the good benefits that you get from Almonds without

the high fat. I save the soy milk for my weekend Vegan Cappuccinos:

Soy Milk works well for this purpose. I haven't found any other non-

dairy milks that can do the trick for a vegan cappuccino.

There's a ton of data out there to prove my comments, but again the

biggest proof is the overall health, then deterioration of the health

of the Chinese.

Go here: http://www.thechina study.com/ about.html

Trust me, you'll recognize the name.

The source I trust MOST on the subject of diet is this website:

http://www.pcrm. org/

They have a WONDERFUL program you can sign up for: Free online

classes every Thursday regarding nutrition to prevent and cure

diabetes (no, they don't like and say they can cure people who have

lost all their insulin producing cells, but they CAN improve the

health of those people).

I like that site because they have a medical database where you can

look up information on various topics, e.g. Osteoporosis, plus they

work diligently to fight the myths spread by the meat and dairy

industry and as a group of physicians (vs. concerned parents) they

are quite successful. I can't remember the specific campaigns, but

due to their efforts, the daiy industry has had to change their adds

due to false claims that they can't back up.

The best source for people concerned about heart disease is Dean

Ornish, who has the only diet plan proven to REVERSE heart disease.

Not just halt progress, no just prevent, but actually REVERSE the

disease. You can probably just google Dean Ornish. LOL, you'll all

probably skip the book on heart disease and buy the "eat more, weigh

less" book:-) Doesn't matter, result is the same: a healthier body.

There is so much more I'd like to write, but I'm working 12 hour days

(see, how many people with CFIDS do you know that can do that... I

credit 1 drug + my diet for my health) so I don't have time to post

all the resources there are out there, but really PCRM is fantastic

and more than anything else you could need. In fact it is by far the

most RELEVANT site for this group because they have a book on Foods

that Fight Pain. Again, I'm a PWC and I'm the only person I know with

CFIDS that does not have FMS: again, credit my diet. Vegans eat a

very alkaline diet, and I know I saw someone bring this up in the

thread... Go to PCRMs website, bookmark it, visit it often, and if

you are free on Thursdays, sign up for the free nutrition classes.

Please, if you have any questions that you want me to read, email me

directly at: veganbikerbabe@ gmail.com as again, I rarely read these

threads, but when I can find some time I will try to answer any

questions. I just cannot say enough about how a Vegan diet has

changed my life for the better. I would say there's zero chance of me

getting heart disease or dying of a heart attack, except my life is

full of stress, so I can just see the doctors scratching their heads

as they do my autopsy and get a good look at my heart and blood

vessels and see how clean and healthy it all is. How could this

person have just dropped dead like that? LOL, tell them someone cut

me off in trafic: they will probably be able to tell that from my

exploded head.

Anyway, please don't freak out about soy. Read all the info, make

SURE there are no links to the meat/dairy industry on the anti-soy

data, and use some common sense. It's not the soy that's killing the

Asians, it's the meat, dairy, and now that Melamine stuff! Yikes!

I wish you all good health and happiness and the strength to do the

work on attaining both.

Happy Holidays!

VeganBikerBabe

>

> From: Pam <pmarshallnc (DOT) rr.com>

> Subject: Soy: friend or foe?

> dominie@groups .com

> Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 7:44 PM

>

>

> Lots of talk about the good or bad of soy, so I

did a little looking around. Most of us think, or have always

thought, that soy was beneficial to our health. I found these

articles that say otherwise:

> http://www.alkalize forhealth. net/Lsoy5. htm

> http://www.thyroid- info.com/ articles/

soydoerge. htm

> http://www.litalee. com/shopexd. asp?id=188

> http://www.the7thfi re.com/health_

and_nutrition/ soy_and_the_ brain.htm

> I searched "soy toxicity" and got 237 hits.

I'm sure if I search "soy for good health" or something similar, I'll

get just as many there too. I don't like soy very much, so this

dilemma is not mine. I just thought I would point out that it's not

just a bunch of nuts somewhere who think that soy is bad for us.

There are some learned people who feel the same way.

> Pam

>