Rules of the road here (was Benecol for a healthy heart?)

[Guest guest]

Dear : thank you for the intro. Since you recognize that your ideas

are not well accepted in the CR community, why did you join us?

In your long intro, once again more claims but not one study or scientific

basis to back up your ideas. In such cases, I the moderator must insist you

do that in the future or you will not be permitted to post here. These are

our " rules " and we all abide by them to remain members in good standing.

Thank you for your future cooperation.

on 12/22/2004 3:38 PM, TheHouseOLife@... at TheHouseOLife@... wrote:

> I'm sorry I was just so excited about posting that I forgot to introduce

> myself. I have been attracted to a healthy lifestyle and to alternative

> medicine all my life. Any members of my family that I have lost was due to

> cancer

> and I vowed then to find alternatives to conventional treatment and to find a

> source of prevention through diet and lifestyle.

> I have a BSc in nutrition from Kent State University, where I decided

> that being a Registered Dietician was not for me due to my conflicting

> beliefs

> regarding proper nutrition. I then attended the Global Institute for

> Alternative Medicine in Santa Cruz, CA where I obtained my Nutritional

> Consultant

> Certification. Since then I became certified with the American Naturopathic

> Medical Association and the American Association of Drugless Practitioners

> and

> the American Association of Nutritional Consultants.

> I have found that in the CR community the fact that I have undertaken an

> alternative approach to my education and the way that I approach nutrition

> is not well accepted. But through my own experience and those I have worked

> with I have seen alternatives work miracles...including CR.

[Guest guest]

Hi

at an instinctual level your words ring true, to me the low fat high

carb diet of most people these days seems like utter madness. it

is totally alien until recent history to eat high starch foods

(grains being the natural food of birds, not humans and legumes

being the natural food of grazing cattle (cows). But, Jeff Novick

is frustratingly good at arguing the case for a low fat diets and at

the moment I think the sheer weight of studies are on his side.

As I read your article I was hoping you would end with a list of

references (pub med if possible) to back up you words. I know weston

price & joseph mercola do give some references but not much, often

they make assumptions based on a single study. But after saying that

I think America has a vested interest in maintaining the high profit

high carb high vegetable fat lifestyle going, and that will I think

prevent the studies being done which I believe will back up your

words.

So for now I feel you are 100% correct but I am still having to pour

large amounts of olive oil on my salad until I see some good studies

backing up your claims. I would love to add some butter and coconut

fat etc and a bit of unpasturized cheese.

p.s don't take any comments too personally, the only thing that

gives this and similar groups credibility is peoples use of

references. a number of people here started posting without using

them, accepted a few slaps on the wrist and then came back with

references, others vanish for ever. it takes stamina to stay.

richard .......

[Guest guest]

>>>to me the low fat high carb diet of most people these days seems

like utter madness.

I agree 100%. But as I have pointed out, americans have never been on a

low fat diet. Actual fat intake has gone up in the last 25 years, not

down, since the low fat craze started. And considering that 98% of the

carbs people eat today are refined grains/flours/cereals and refined

sugar, I also agree 100%. Now, while this diet is often portrayed as a

low fat, high carb diet, it is anything but. It is a high refinded

sugar, high refined carb, high fat diet without many good fats. And it

is not healthy. I think we all agree that the current american diet is

an atrocity. I would never call a diet that is 23% refined sugar, 24%

refined grains and 37% fat a low fat diet, nor would I call it a healthy

diet.

So, how does this atrocity of a diet that Americans eat condemn a

healthy plants based whole food lower fat diet? To try and make this

point, is no more honest than the labels I discussed earlier.

>>But, Jeff Novick is frustratingly good at arguing the case for a low

fat diets and at the moment I think the sheer weight of studies are on

his side.

Thanks. I only try to present an accurate view of the literature. But

my case is not for a low fat diet per see, but for the rationale of a

healthy natural plant based whole food diet. The fact that when you are

done following those principles, that the diet is low fat or lower in

fat than many people eat, is a natural consequence, not the goal or the

primary consideration.

>>it is totally alien until recent history to eat high starch foods

(grains being the natural food of birds, not humans and legumes being

the natural food of grazing cattle (cows).

Correct, but separate issue. You could still follow my principles,

consume no starch foods, or limited amounts and still be on a low fat,

healthy diet. Point out the negative in something doesn't automatically

make the opposite positive.

>> But after saying that I think America has a vested interest in

maintaining the high profit high carb high vegetable fat lifestyle

going,

The vested interest is in anything that will sale. The current trend is

not low fat, nor has the market been full of these products for quite

some time. The current trend is low carb. And the next trend will be

whatever they can sell us, regardless of its health impact

>>I would love to add some butter and coconut fat etc and a bit of

unpasturized cheese.

My question is, just where exactly did humans get these foods that they

supposedly consumed so much of that were high in fat? Coconut and

coconut oil is only available in certain climates. Cheese is a recent

invention in modern cultures. Wild game was low in fat, and saturated

fat and cholesterol. Plants, outside of a few exceptions, average about

5-15% fat, most of it unsaturated. I commented on coconut and share the

same view for avocados. Nuts and seeds, the only other high fat plant

food that was more readily available geographically, was limited in

supply based on seasons. Dairy products didn't exist as they werent

cultivated till much later. There was no butter, lard, oil, bacon, etc

etc till more modern times. While they may have consumed organ meat,

bone marrow and the like, it was not as abundant and usually reserved

for the pack/tribe leaders.

So while it may be foreign to eat grains in such abundance, it is just

as foreign to think that a high fat diet with butter, cheese, whole milk

bacon etc was common.

Put together a diet anyway you want based on regularly available whole

natural plant foods (fruits, berries, roots, tubers, veggies), regularly

available grass fed wild game, some more common fish on occassion, and

some nuts, seeds and let me know how much fat this diet is as a daily

average based on the yearly intake.

Of course, the reality is that they ate whatever they could get their

hands on, though their choices werent much more than the above.

Regards

Jeff

[Guest guest]

FWIW, I recently looked at cat and dog foods and discovered much to my surprise the diets which facilitate their living to longer ages, is like 85% carb. That's for animals we describe as CARNIVORES. We have 10s of millions of pets, if we want to consider them as test subjects.

These animals live so long now they are getting diseases similar to humans. There are people working on even extending cats lives by solving the renal failure, etc. If you ever taste cat or dog food, you'll notice immediately the lack of salt compared to human food.

You'll find the rat chow used in CRer animals is similar.

Just for the sake of argument, If I believe CR rat studies, wouldn't I believe I should eat the same type food? Actually, not just the same type, but also the same ingredients, as in grains, maybe soy, fat content, protein content, maybe slightly diff supplements.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: rwalkerad1970

Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 3:40 PM

Subject: [ ] re: Rules of the road here (was Benecol for a healthy heart?)

Hi at an instinctual level your words ring true, to me the low fat high carb diet of most people these days seems like utter madness. it is totally alien until recent history to eat high starch foods (grains being the natural food of birds, not humans and legumes being the natural food of grazing cattle (cows). But, Jeff Novick is frustratingly good at arguing the case for a low fat diets and at the moment I think the sheer weight of studies are on his side.As I read your article I was hoping you would end with a list of references (pub med if possible) to back up you words. I know weston price & joseph mercola do give some references but not much, often they make assumptions based on a single study. But after saying that I think America has a vested interest in maintaining the high profit high carb high vegetable fat lifestyle going, and that will I think prevent the studies being done which I believe will back up your words. So for now I feel you are 100% correct but I am still having to pour large amounts of olive oil on my salad until I see some good studies backing up your claims. I would love to add some butter and coconut fat etc and a bit of unpasturized cheese.p.s don't take any comments too personally, the only thing that gives this and similar groups credibility is peoples use of references. a number of people here started posting without using them, accepted a few slaps on the wrist and then came back with references, others vanish for ever. it takes stamina to stay.richard .......

[Guest guest]

LOL... don't tell us you're eating cat food now just to get low sodium .....:-) I thought Christmas fare was Hams and Turkey.

Merry Christmas JW try a small piece of fruit cake.

JR

PS: I fed my rat wafarin and no I didn't taste it

-----Original Message-----From: jwwright [mailto:jwwright@...]Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [ ] re: Rules of the road here (was Benecol for a healthy heart?)

FWIW, I recently looked at cat and dog foods and discovered much to my surprise the diets which facilitate their living to longer ages, is like 85% carb. That's for animals we describe as CARNIVORES. We have 10s of millions of pets, if we want to consider them as test subjects.

These animals live so long now they are getting diseases similar to humans. There are people working on even extending cats lives by solving the renal failure, etc. If you ever taste cat or dog food, you'll notice immediately the lack of salt compared to human food.

You'll find the rat chow used in CRer animals is similar.

Just for the sake of argument, If I believe CR rat studies, wouldn't I believe I should eat the same type food? Actually, not just the same type, but also the same ingredients, as in grains, maybe soy, fat content, protein content, maybe slightly diff supplements.

Regards.