Re: Re: Natural diet, fats, startch etc, was (Rules of the road)

[Guest guest]

I recall less than 35yo. Just long enough to breed and raise some offspring.

A recent TV show about Neanderthal's (not our ancestors, perhaps) stated the aged looking leg bones weren't that old. Probably not long enough to develop athero or cancer. I've seen nothing that says the body could have determined by evolution, the correct diet for living to 120 yo (6 generations).

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: chuinyun

Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 8:22 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Natural diet, fats, startch etc, was (Rules of the road)

Greeting!I eat 10f/10p/80c my stomach do just fine! :)Question please, any evidence of atherosclerosis or cancer in paleoman? What was they life expectancy?My point, what they eat don't mean best for health! Maybe! But don'thave to be best just because they had to eat it, and research todayshows what is best- ie, mostly plants and fish. Why you want to eat paleo diet??Long Life.

[Guest guest]

>> I think you will find that most of the foods that currently give you

problems are not just high in starch, they're also highly insulinic.

Therefore, you can keep in the spirit of paleo-genetics by ingesting low

insulinic, calorie-dense, non- fruit foods to make up your energy

deficit.

What do you consider " low insulinic " ? What " number " or " value " do you

use, what are the " cut-offs (high, low, med) and how is it determined?

Thanks

Jeff

[Guest guest]

I used to weigh and measure everything I ate for many years thru the

various forms of dietary restriction and control. These days, I don't,

as I now pretty much know what to eat and how much. But yesterday, to

answer the question, I did a rough estimate of what I ate. If asked to

guess, I would have said it is about 1300-1500 calories with a ratio of

60/20/20 (C/P/F) which it came out very close to. Being the holiday

season, I may have eaten more than I usually do.

I don't eat " breakfast " per see, but around 10 am I have a bowl of fruit

and it's in a standard bowl I use and it holds around 2 lbs of fresh

fruit. The bowl is usually about 1/2 mixed berries, 1/2 mixed melons

and sometimes some fresh seasonal fruit within the bowl. I call it my

Basic Everyday Fruit Salad and think everyone could benefit from eating

something similar every day. This morning it was blueberries,

blackberries, rasberries, strawberries, cantaloupe, honeydew,

watermelon. Around 1 - 2 pm I have a huge bowl of salad which is

mostly all vegetables, mostly all raw, mostly greens (romaine) and about

1/2 cup each of cukes, tomatoes, red cabbage, carrots, onions, celery,

peppers, grated raw beet. Sometimes some chick peas 1/2-1 cup. Also a

bowl of steamed veggies, usually from the assortment of Kale, Broccoli,

Baby Bok Choy which I had yesterday but also zucchini, cauliflower,

green beans, asparagus etc etc. I will have a similar salad for dinner

but less steamed veggies and may add in a small portion of fresh fish,

like trout, salmon. Last nite some trout. If I don't, I may add in a

sweet potato or some brown rice, or some Whole Wheat Pasta. In the

evening I usually slice up an apple or two and have about 1 oz of fresh

nuts with it, usually almonds which I did last nite, but will also have

walnuts, brazil, cashews, pecans, etc throughout the week. To me, it

doesn't seem like a lot of salad as I eat it all the time and love it. I

call it the Basic Everyday Vegetable Salad and think everyone could

benefit from eating something similar at least once each day. I think

it is similar to one Walford recommends in the BY120D. In fact, it

isnt much different than the basic eating guidelines he recommends in

the book around page 220 or so. I am allergic to dairy and eggs so

don't use either. I put lemon juice, lime juice or brown rice vinegar

on my salad. I used to only drink water but have recently started

drinking some green tea a couple times a day. I am not always so

" perfect " about following my ideal, as I travel a lot. But, at home and

work, I make sure it is always what I described here or something very

close. I even have restaurants in the area that make these salads and

meals for me and also at work, where I am fortunate to have this kind of

food readily available for me, all day. Soemtimes, I will trade off one

of the salads for a big bowl of fresh made veggie soup, so the contents

are not much different, just in a different form.

So, I ran that thru nutrition program called Food Processor and came up

with the following..

Calories 1496

Carb 63%, Protein 19%, Fat 18%

Protein 76g

SFA 4.4

MUFA 12.6

PUFA 9.67

Fiber 67 g

Soluble Fiber 20 g

Cholesterol 78 mg

Omega 3 2.85

Omega 6 6.5

P:S 2.19/1

Vit A 81021 IU

B1 1.79 mg

B2 1.95 mg

B3 20.30 mg

B6 3 mg

B12 7.14 mcg

Biotin 19.87 mcg

Vit C 858 mg

Vit D 43.36 (I live in Sunny Florida)

Vit E 28.92 mg

Folate 1335 mcg

Vit K 605 mcg

B5 5.68 mg

Boron .87 mcg

Calcium 968 mg

Chloride 512.90

Chromium 62.72 mcg

Copper 2.22 mg

Iodine 36.97

Iron 19.85

Magnesium 457 mg

Manganese 7.93 mg

Molybdenum 185 mcg

Phosphorus 1405 mg

Potassium 7235 mg

Selenium 35.14 (I choose brazil nuts a few times a week)

Sodium 525 mg

Zinc 8.4 mg

Comments and/or questions are welcome

Happpy Holidays to All!

Jeff

[Guest guest]

Jeff: thanks for this post a couple of weeks ago. Your diet sounds great

and is an inspiration. I do have one question. Do you ever get hungry on

this diet? If so, what do you do to abate your hunger? (If I had to guess,

I'd say you probably just eat more salad).

on 12/24/2004 1:36 PM, Jeff Novick at jnovick@... wrote:

> I used to weigh and measure everything I ate for many years thru the

> various forms of dietary restriction and control. These days, I don't,

> as I now pretty much know what to eat and how much. But yesterday, to

> answer the question, I did a rough estimate of what I ate. If asked to

> guess, I would have said it is about 1300-1500 calories with a ratio of

> 60/20/20 (C/P/F) which it came out very close to. Being the holiday

> season, I may have eaten more than I usually do.

>

> I don't eat " breakfast " per see, but around 10 am I have a bowl of fruit

> and it's in a standard bowl I use and it holds around 2 lbs of fresh

> fruit. The bowl is usually about 1/2 mixed berries, 1/2 mixed melons

> and sometimes some fresh seasonal fruit within the bowl. I call it my

> Basic Everyday Fruit Salad and think everyone could benefit from eating

> something similar every day. This morning it was blueberries,

> blackberries, rasberries, strawberries, cantaloupe, honeydew,

> watermelon. Around 1 - 2 pm I have a huge bowl of salad which is

> mostly all vegetables, mostly all raw, mostly greens (romaine) and about

> 1/2 cup each of cukes, tomatoes, red cabbage, carrots, onions, celery,

> peppers, grated raw beet. Sometimes some chick peas 1/2-1 cup. Also a

> bowl of steamed veggies, usually from the assortment of Kale, Broccoli,

> Baby Bok Choy which I had yesterday but also zucchini, cauliflower,

> green beans, asparagus etc etc. I will have a similar salad for dinner

> but less steamed veggies and may add in a small portion of fresh fish,

> like trout, salmon. Last nite some trout. If I don't, I may add in a

> sweet potato or some brown rice, or some Whole Wheat Pasta. In the

> evening I usually slice up an apple or two and have about 1 oz of fresh

> nuts with it, usually almonds which I did last nite, but will also have

> walnuts, brazil, cashews, pecans, etc throughout the week. To me, it

> doesn't seem like a lot of salad as I eat it all the time and love it. I

> call it the Basic Everyday Vegetable Salad and think everyone could

> benefit from eating something similar at least once each day. I think

> it is similar to one Walford recommends in the BY120D. In fact, it

> isnt much different than the basic eating guidelines he recommends in

> the book around page 220 or so. I am allergic to dairy and eggs so

> don't use either. I put lemon juice, lime juice or brown rice vinegar

> on my salad. I used to only drink water but have recently started

> drinking some green tea a couple times a day. I am not always so

> " perfect " about following my ideal, as I travel a lot. But, at home and

> work, I make sure it is always what I described here or something very

> close. I even have restaurants in the area that make these salads and

> meals for me and also at work, where I am fortunate to have this kind of

> food readily available for me, all day. Soemtimes, I will trade off one

> of the salads for a big bowl of fresh made veggie soup, so the contents

> are not much different, just in a different form.

>

> So, I ran that thru nutrition program called Food Processor and came up

> with the following..

>

> Calories 1496

> Carb 63%, Protein 19%, Fat 18%

> Protein 76g

> SFA 4.4

> MUFA 12.6

> PUFA 9.67

> Fiber 67 g

> Soluble Fiber 20 g

> Cholesterol 78 mg

> Omega 3 2.85

> Omega 6 6.5

> P:S 2.19/1

> Vit A 81021 IU

> B1 1.79 mg

> B2 1.95 mg

> B3 20.30 mg

> B6 3 mg

> B12 7.14 mcg

> Biotin 19.87 mcg

> Vit C 858 mg

> Vit D 43.36 (I live in Sunny Florida)

> Vit E 28.92 mg

> Folate 1335 mcg

> Vit K 605 mcg

> B5 5.68 mg

> Boron .87 mcg

> Calcium 968 mg

> Chloride 512.90

> Chromium 62.72 mcg

> Copper 2.22 mg

> Iodine 36.97

> Iron 19.85

> Magnesium 457 mg

> Manganese 7.93 mg

> Molybdenum 185 mcg

> Phosphorus 1405 mg

> Potassium 7235 mg

> Selenium 35.14 (I choose brazil nuts a few times a week)

> Sodium 525 mg

> Zinc 8.4 mg

>

> Comments and/or questions are welcome

>

> Happpy Holidays to All!

> Jeff

>

[Guest guest]

>>And you do the lot on 1500 calories and its low glycemic (don't know

what your height is but it looks like your going to be at least 30%

Calorie restriction, maybe 40% if your near six foot on those calories).

I am around 5'6 (.5) " (at my height, every 1/2 inch counts!) .

Now, I have never been very large at any size or weight throughout my

life but I figure it to be about 10-15% CR, with 20% CR at most. I have

been at a much lower weight and BF in the past but was not comfortable

with my QOL at those times. I have weight as little as 104 with around

5% body fat for an extended period. I was always cold. Felt weak.

Couldn't sit for long as it hurt. Had no libido. Felt irritated often.

No clothes would fit as I was buying kids clothes, and looked very

gaunt, and all the other " side effects " you hear about with extreme CR.

It wasn't fun. And the irony is, that if that is what it takes to

extend my life without disease, than who would want to live long like

that?

I have some problems with the whole concept of " set point " and how you

deduce your " usual " weight. We are not rats in cages and have many other

variables that come into play just to survive. So, how much is

typically available and how much is the typical amount of

activity/exercise we get? This all matters.

And, In observing this ongoing human experiment here on earth, it seems

that " most " humans, given free access to readily available food, will

eat as much as they can. We are a rare group. Perhaps it's a built in

survival mechanism but there are now more adults over 300 lbs and over

350 lbs than ever before, and even more over 500 than ever before and

some upward of a 1000. As the food industy makes more and more food

available, and cheaper and more concentrated, we humans (at least those

humans) just keep getting heavier and heavier. Its seems that the human

" race " is now to obesity.

But, if I was to use some of the concepts, my typical weight as an adult

was around 135-140.

I don't ever remember being over 140 (142) and at my height, that is

only a BMI Of 22.3. SO that was my heaviest. Well take 10% off of

that, and you get to 122-126, which is right around where I am most of

the time these days. That's a BMI of 19.4 - 20.0. I may drop to

117-122 and keep my BMI around 18.6 -19.4 this year. I think 18.5 is

the safest and healthiest that we have data to support.

Regards

Jeff

[Guest guest]

Musclebuilding or seeing how low one can go weightwise is not the goal.

Calories and the kind of calories eaten are what's important here.

on 1/4/2005 3:31 PM, chuinyun at chuinyun@... wrote:

>

> Jeff, greeting, do you exercise? What your bodyfat % now?

>

> Jeff, if you add 5-6 lbs of MUSCLE when you low body weight of 104

> (keep 5% bodyfat!), you think you do better CRON and feel less weak at

> ~110lbs with more 5-6 lb more muscle than now at 122-126 and with more

> % fat?

>

> 5lb muscle is good gain. Make big difference in strength!

>

> Which model better for CRON: you be 110lbs with more muscle or you be

> ~125 with more fat?

>

> Many thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill >>I believe that what you eat (and, on flip side, what you do not eat)is the epitome of the CRON diet as defined by science today. Its not much different than what is recommended in the B120YD by Walford and also our center. The main differences are I dont eat cheese, dairy, or eggs and try to keep these as simple and unproccessed as I can..>>My question to you is this: Would or have you made any changes to thismodel since then? Not really. I have been making more "soups" lately in the evening, maybe due to the cold weather and sometimes i have a smoothie instead of the fruit salad as the mid morning meal, but the basics are the same. Here is a recipe I have been working on that is very simple and easy and loaded with nutrients. I think I will call it "longevity

soup" Longevity Soup 1 28 oz can of Whole Tomatoes (no salt added) 1 28 oz can of Pureed Tomatoes (no Salt added) 28 oz Water 16 oz Sliced Mushrooms (i use different varieties) 1 bunch Celery, sliced 1 Medium Onion, diced About 3 lbs of Mixed frozen vegetables (broccoli, cauliflower, Carrots, Zucchini, Yellow Squash, String Beans, etc) 1 16 oz bag Kale 1 14oz Can Garbanzo Beans (No Salt Added) 1 14oz Can Kidney Beans (No Salt Added) I "sautee" the onions, and celery in water for a minute or two and then add mushrooms for another minute or two and then throw everything else in.a huge pot, bring to a boil, and then simmer for 30 minutes. You can also add some fresh garlic and fresh ginger in the begining when "sauteeing" the onions and celery. And, You can

also skip the sautee part and just throw everything in at once. I keep half to eat in the next day or two and freeze half. I "season" it with some Mrs Dash, Table Blend and eat about 2 bowls for dinner ThanksJeff