Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth --- SIBO

[Guest guest]

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> This thread started off as " New to Group, " but I think it deserves a

new subject line now.

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> Heron,

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> That was a wonderful article on Small Intestinal Bacterial

Overgrowth.

http://www.medicinenet.com/small_intestinal_bacterial_overgrowth/article.htm

I learned a lot from it. However, the article was very shy on

treatment options. There is a lot more that can be done besides

antibiotics and probiotics. A few of these things were mentioned by

the patients. These were Specific Carbohydrate Diet, peppermint oil

and cloves of garlic swallowed whole. I'm pretty sure that this doctor

who wrote the article may be aware of other unproven treatments, but

it wouldn't be appropriate for him to speculate on them in an article.

Anecdotal experiences and unproven methods are best left for the

patients to describe.

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> I would like to talk more about the other available treatments, but

right now it is late, and there is much to describe. So, I'll leave

you with a promise that we will continue this discussion soon.

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> PS --- sometimes Interstitial Cystitis will clear up when you clear

up the gut environment.

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> Polly

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[Guest guest]

>thankyou for this info..I just ordered Dr Pimentel's book on amazon.. thought it was worth reading..

I didn’t know he had a book out. Sounds good. I just ordered it too. The reason I’m familiar with Dr. Pimentel’s work is that he gave a lecture to our local support group about 7 years ago. At the time, he wasn’t using Rifaximin. From the articles about his book, I gather that presently he is using that antibiotic. Rifaximin is interesting, in that it targets E. coli. Oregano and peppermint target E. coli. In fact, that is why I mentioned trying those two herbs. People with fibromyalgia usually have a viral infection of the E. coli in their intestine. The virus causes the E. coli to burst and thus exposes the body to lots of the shell fragments. These shell fragments contain LPS, which causes all sorts of problems with the immune system and your thyroid regulation. Vitamin K protects the body from some of the inflammation caused by LPS. That is why I mentioned that vitamin K was probably particularly important. Besides, with the disrupted intestinal bacteria mix, your body has lost some of its source of vitamin K2.>here is a great article on peppermint oil..http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDN/is_5_7/ai_94159011/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1

Thank you. It was a very good article. Notice that they were using enteric coated peppermint oil rather than just plain peppermint oil. The enteric coating releases the contents later in the bowel. Pimentel said that usually the bacterial overgrowth is in the latter part of the small intestine. So, enteric coating would help release the peppermint or oregano closer to the main problem. One of the articles that you sent had the experience of a person swallowing whole cloves of garlic. This would bring more of the garlic to the latter part of the intestine. I suspect that is why many people do this. Garlic also kills / inhibits E. coli.>I have been told that I have low HCL ..so I try to steer clear ofanything that will reduce it further..and I try to take digestiveenzymes with my food.

Why not take a supplement of HCL? When I was ill, I was afraid to take this. Wish I had done this though. Here is an article that I put together with people’s experiences on using HCL supplements. http://www.healthyawareness.com/poor-stomach-acid-and-serious-disorders.aspx

If you are concerned about taking HCL supplements, then at least eat some vinegar at mealtime.

>and I have been using peppermint oil...when in a flare. One Side effect I have noticed it..it will increase reflux..because of the relaxation effect of the sphincter at the end of your esophagus. so careful on the dosage too close to bedtime.

Thanks for this information, Heron. Enteric coated might help alleviate that problem. PS: One reason for reflux / GERD / heartburn is not enough stomach acid. The stomach contents don’t empty properly because the trigger of acid isn’t’ there.> Polly..one thing I have noted in your message was the use ofbicabonates..I figure that is to deacidify your body..but it will alsoreduce the HCL in your stomach.. I was wondering about this!

You take the bicarbonates after the stomach has emptied its contents. Somewhere between 30 minutes to an hour and a half after eating. (Depends on the size of the meal and how much meat is in it.) The pancreas and the intestine will naturally be adding in bicarbonates at that point in time.

The muscular wave that removes the excess bacteria is called the phase 3 motility wave. It is also known as the housekeeper wave. It is initiated by the hormone motilin. This hormone is released in the intestines in response to acid. However, this hormone isn’t activated until the environment becomes more alkaline. Hence the emphasis on both stomach acid and later bicarbonates. The housekeeper wave doesn’t occur if there is food in the stomach. That is one reason for the suggestion of using some bicarbonate before bedtime on an empty stomach. You will have a better chance of activating this wave. Inflammation and the presence of excess bacteria also inhibit this wave.>Can you speak a bit more about Your experiences with this syndrome?

I never had fibromyalgia. I had IBS. When I went to the doctor 30 years ago, they did a test and said “The only thing that showed up was yeast, but that doesn’t mean anything. Everyone has yeast.” As far as getting better, it has been a long slow learning experience. Mainly, I experimented with my diet and tried most everything that came out on the health market that made sense to me. I don’t have a formal background in health. I have a doctorate in systems engineering. > and I am interested in the info on bile also!

Bile kills off bacteria. Some of the bacteria in the overgrowth are going to break down bile and make it unavailable for recycling. So you might be low on bile. Also, your low stomach acid is another obstacle to bile release. Bile release is part of the digestive cascade. Without enough stomach acid, you are missing a trigger for bile release. Cholesterol, taurine and glycine will help your liver create bile.

I heard second-hand that bile is one of the things that Dr. Pimentel was using. As for the amount, too much is going to irritate the large intestine. So, watch how your body responds. For a general idea of how much to use, let me relate this anecdotal experience. A Chinese medicine doctor prescribed a bile supplement for a friend. He gave her three pills with each meal for a month. Then he said she didn’t need it as much, and went on to something else. I noticed that her bad breath disappeared during that month. Here is an interesting article on bile and morning sickness. http://www.karenhurd.com/morningsickness.html

>what is this.. T3 thyroid

There are different forms of the thyroid hormone. T4 is the storage form. Most conventional doctors will only prescribe the T4 form. T3 (three iodine atoms) is the active form. (T1, T2, and T5 also have roles in the body, but these are ignored in most any discussion you will find on thyroid hormones.) Dr. Lowe found success in treating fibromyalgia patients with T3 thyroid. http://www.drlowe.com One of the things that T3 thyroid does is stimulate the activity of oxytocin, which helps promote the housekeeper wave. >and Polly..in getting to know you a lil better.. are you a healthcare professional? or are you like the rest of us..very interested in learning to heal ourselves..naturally

I’m like the rest of you. Learning to heal myself naturally. I have a strong interest in trying to help others along their healing path as well. Guess I just don't want to see people go through what I did. Many of my articles are at www.healthyawareness.com More of my articles on fibromyalgia will be put up this year, when the webmaster has time. The webmaster at this site does all the work himself as he gets time. It is definitely a labor of love on his part. He doesn't sell things at his site because he feels that slants the information too much. He does accept advertisement money from google. (Google chooses which advertisements are put up.) However, this random advertisement money isn't nearly enough to support the basic costs of the site, let alone his time.Polly