Re: Water mumbo jumbo

[Guest guest]

Based on replicating the glacial water the Hunza's drank (which was

high alkalinity with a massive amount of active hydrogen), " ionized "

or " microwater " is a term (probably originating in Japan) pertaining

to water produced by functional electrolysis to split the water into

alkaline and acid streams.

" Reduced " or " small-clustered " refers to the reduced surface tension

and higher permeability due to the clusters being decreased in size

from the normal 10-13 molecules per to 5-8 molecules per, as measured

by nuclear magnetic resonance spectrometry. This alkaline reduced

water has a relatively higher oxidation-reduction potential (ORP)

from increased active hydrogen.

Upon further inspection, Essentia is both high alkalinity (pH 9.5)

and has smaller water clusters, but the effect seems to be from

ionized minerals being added. Perhaps functional electrolysis is not

the only way to produce alkaline reduced water.

Either way, it is still more expensive to buy any bottled water than

to produce it at home. There are microwater machines available

($500+) that can be bought as the technology is approximately 50

years old and widely used and researched in Japan. It is not a very

well known technology in the U.S..

Logan

> What does is meant by microwater? Are the molecules smaller? They

> can't be. What is small-clustered? Little droplets vs. big >

> droplets?

>

> Impossible to determine and impossible to test or prove. Ionized

> water means that there are ions of some mineral. Duh. All surface

> water contains ions in contrast with rain water which almost pure.

[Guest guest]

Rather than comment about the individual statements in this note, let

me refer you to the excellent web site about water by Prof.

Chaplin, Professor of Applied Science who specializes in Water and

Aqueous Systems Research at London South Bank University.

http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/

Tony

>>>

From: " loganruns73 " <loganruns73@y...>

Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:09 pm

Subject: Re: Water mumbo jumbo

Based on replicating the glacial water the Hunza's drank (which was

high alkalinity with a massive amount of active hydrogen), " ionized "

or " microwater " is a term (probably originating in Japan) pertaining

to water produced by functional electrolysis to split the water into

alkaline and acid streams.

" Reduced " or " small-clustered " refers to the reduced surface tension

and higher permeability due to the clusters being decreased in size

from the normal 10-13 molecules per to 5-8 molecules per, as measured

by nuclear magnetic resonance spectrometry. This alkaline reduced

water has a relatively higher oxidation-reduction potential (ORP)

from increased active hydrogen.

Upon further inspection, Essentia is both high alkalinity (pH 9.5)

and has smaller water clusters, but the effect seems to be from

ionized minerals being added. Perhaps functional electrolysis is not

the only way to produce alkaline reduced water.

Either way, it is still more expensive to buy any bottled water than

to produce it at home. There are microwater machines available

($500+) that can be bought as the technology is approximately 50

years old and widely used and researched in Japan. It is not a very

well known technology in the U.S..

Logan

>>>

[Guest guest]

Interesting site and less biased than I expected. I found the below

excerpts particularly germane:

" ... These appear to be related to ... Hayashi's 'microwater'

[111]. ... Hayashi prepared his water by electrolysisb using the

reduced and oxidized streams for different purposes. Although cluster

size can be determined from the shift in the 17O NMR resonance signal

in line with its reduction with increasing temperature, in some cases

it seems to have been determined by means of changes in the width (at

half peak height) of the 17O NMR resonance signal from above 100 Hz

to below 100 Hz. Other conditions being equal this width is expected

to give a measure of the strength of the clustering as motionally-

hindered water has faster relaxation kinetics and hence should give a

greater 17O NMR resonance signal width (e.g. the width also decreases

with increasing temperature). However these samples are not pure

water samples as they have high (supersaturated) gas concentrations

and may contain other additives. The widths do not appear to change

reproducibly as Hayashi reports a width for impure water of 105 Hz

but Lorenzen reports the width for distilled and triple distilled

water as higher at 130 Hz and 115 Hz respectively. Unfortunately the

data reported by Lorenzen and Hayashi is sparse and does not include

any statistical data or precise experimental conditions. Also there

does not seem to be much other data reported in the literature

concerning the effect of solutes on the width of this resonance or

its reproducibility. Nor is there any unanimity on what cluster size

any reduction in the width might indicate. Other unanswered questions

concern (a) whether it is the strength or extent of the hydrogen

bonding that is important, ( if extent is important, is it the mean

number of hydrogen bonds each water molecule participates in or the

mean cluster size of fully satisfied hydrogen bonded water molecules

that is important, © if strength is important, is it the mean

strength of all the bonds around a water molecule or only the

strongest of these, (d) what is the effect of the distribution of

hydrogen bond strengths (or extents), and (e) how long do any effects

last. ... "

Leaving aside opinion -- which certainly abounds freely when there is

a dearth of scientific studies backing up hard-to-measure scientific

phenomenom -- there is efficacy shown for drinking high alkalinity

water [PMID: 9012896] irrespective of (a), (, ©, (d) and (e)

above. But, I do not personally know enough to equivocally state

that high alkalinity water is interdependent on having increased

active hydrogen (which is produced in the alkaline stream near the

cathode during electrolysis) and/or smaller water clusters [PMID:

9012906, PMID: 9169001].

One of the few scientists who studies the structure and size of water

clusters is at: http://www.psc.edu/science/Jordan/Jordan.html If

you're still skeptical about their existence, he is the one to talk

with. Better yet, go to the health store, buy a bottle of Essentia

(not the brand " Essential " ) water and compare it with your best

spring water. The difference will be obvious, both going in and

coming out.

I do not think there is any controversy as to active hydrogen being

the ideal free radical scavenger? This goes back to the Hunza's and

one of the various theories about their extremely long-lived lives.

Logan

P.S. I was wrong about ionic minerals being added to Essentia water

to produce the high alkalinity. However, they do add electrolytes.

But, adding electrolytes alone is not enough to get the pH up to

9.5. Essentia relies on a proprietary functional electrolysis

process they call " Ionic Separation " . They bottle and sell only the

high alkalinity water stream.

>

> Rather than comment about the individual statements in this note,

let

> me refer you to the excellent web site about water by Prof.

> Chaplin, Professor of Applied Science who specializes in Water and

> Aqueous Systems Research at London South Bank University.

>

> http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/

>

> Tony