Re: Ideal CR-ON ALA/EPA/DHA

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Tony,

Point out the fish/flax statement in that url.

Dr. M Berardi, Ph.D. sounds like he's not a practicing PCa Dr.

But I like his argument except I wonder where he gets the "My recommendations center around consuming 6-10 g combined of EPA and DHA per day from both food and supplemental sources. "

That's 3 to 5, 8 oz cans of salmon. It doesn't equate to that EPA/DHA obtained from 2 grams of ALA at 30% conversion. Also a lot of capsules.

We know from one of Alan's post (last few months), that consumption of EPA/DHA displaces ALA in tissues. They think that's good for CVD - I don't really know, but it enforces the idea that the conversion doesn't take place, since we do get ALA from lotsa places, not the least is an enormous consumption of soy oil.

So why doesn't the BODY replace the ALA in tissues with it's converted EPA?

My guess is Dr Myers is right that males don't convert it.

Just musing.

I hope Alan can recall that article. I'll keep looking for it.

I found an excess of EPA/DHA caps (like 6 per day) caused the same thing I don't like about Plavix. Easy bruises - like I lean against the wall and the tissue bleeds. I'm just not fond of that idea.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: citpeks

Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:21 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Ideal CR-ON

Jeff,The formula to predict gain/loss of Lean Body Mass was originallyposted in Message 14169 with a reference to the article that had it:http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/qa/afc/afc_jul272001.htmThe formula is from a paper by G.B. Forbes (Ann N Y Acad Sci 2000May;904:359-65) describing weight gain and weight loss experiments.The conclusions are that you gain more muscle than fat when you arelean (low % body fat), and that when dieting you will lose more musclethan fat if you restrict your calories too much.Tony

[Guest guest]

maybe this one:

From: old542000

Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 2:44 PM

Subject: [ ] Vegetarian nutrient shortcomings

Hi All,Another nutrient that may be deficient in a vegetarian diet is taurine. This below pdf-available paper, though, also addresses long-chain fatty acids. "Carninutrients" is a new word to me. Phytonutrients sounds more natural.Still, MetaMetrix analysis of amino acids showed low taurine levels in fish-eating me and they recommended supplementing with taurine.Eggs have none and milk has little. Medical HypothesesArticles in Press

{I Add:Sub-optimal taurine status may promote platelet hyperaggregability in vegetarians.

Medical Hypotheses, Volume 63, Issue 3, Pages 426-433

M. McCarty}

Sub-optimal taurine status may promote platelethyperaggregability in vegetariansMark F. McCarty

"The practical difficulty for vege-tariansin this regard is that most vegetarians choosethis diet for ethical reasons, and would prefer not touse fish oil. Administration of a-linolenic acid tohumans, even in high doses, typically fails to repli-catethe health benefits conferred by relativelymodest intakes of fish oil, most likely because hu-mand-6-desaturase activity is low [25,55,56]."

Don't know what [25,55,56] refs are.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15288361 & itool=iconabstr

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: jwwright

Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 10:15 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Ideal CR-ON ALA/EPA/DHA

Thanks, Tony,

Point out the fish/flax statement in that url.

Dr. M Berardi, Ph.D. sounds like he's not a practicing PCa Dr.

But I like his argument except I wonder where he gets the "My recommendations center around consuming 6-10 g combined of EPA and DHA per day from both food and supplemental sources. "

That's 3 to 5, 8 oz cans of salmon. It doesn't equate to that EPA/DHA obtained from 2 grams of ALA at 30% conversion. Also a lot of capsules.

We know from one of Alan's post (last few months), that consumption of EPA/DHA displaces ALA in tissues. They think that's good for CVD - I don't really know, but it enforces the idea that the conversion doesn't take place, since we do get ALA from lotsa places, not the least is an enormous consumption of soy oil.

So why doesn't the BODY replace the ALA in tissues with it's converted EPA?

My guess is Dr Myers is right that males don't convert it.

Just musing.

I hope Alan can recall that article. I'll keep looking for it.

I found an excess of EPA/DHA caps (like 6 per day) caused the same thing I don't like about Plavix. Easy bruises - like I lean against the wall and the tissue bleeds. I'm just not fond of that idea.

Regards.

[Guest guest]

JW,

The emphasis on large quantities of EFAs comes from the point of view

of bodybuilding, where you need to eat a lot of protein to build large

muscles, and everything else must be scaled up proportionally to

maintain the macronutrient ratios. Several portions of the Bernardi

link talk about daily calorie consumption of 3000 to 4000 calories per

day. Since CRONers have smaller bodies, and eat 2000 calories or

less, our requirements for EFAs should be proportionally lower.

Your experience with high doses of EPA/DHA supplements and bruising is

a fair warning in support of moderation for all aspects of our diet.

I often wonder, for example, how much oil our ancestors consumed 3,000

years ago. I cannot imagine that they had access to cupfuls of oil

for deep frying or for garnishing salads. Our modern methods of

isolating food components have made it easier to overdose on them,

whether it is oils or refined carbohydrates. Our ancestors would have

had a hard time overdosing on carbs by eating whole foods. How much

honey could you eat before the bees chased you away? How many dates

could you eat before you became full? How much fish could you eat so

that the level of EPA/DHA was high enough to cause you to bruise

easily?

As I reflect on these questions, I feel that I am becoming more of an

advocate for the consumption of whole foods, rather than for

consumption of extracted components which generally lack the

micronutrients and fiber of the whole product and the organoleptic

attributes that contribute to satiety to prevent us from overdosing.

Tony

=========

From: " jwwright " <jwwright@e...>

Date: Thu Jan 6, 2005 11:15 am

Subject: Re: Ideal CR-ON ALA/EPA/DHA

....

I wonder where he gets the " My recommendations center around consuming

6-10 g combined of EPA and DHA per day from both food and supplemental

sources. "

That's 3 to 5, 8 oz cans of salmon. It doesn't equate to that EPA/DHA

obtained from 2 grams of ALA at 30% conversion. Also a lot of

capsules.

....

I found an excess of EPA/DHA caps (like 6 per day) caused the same

thing I don't like about Plavix. Easy bruises - like I lean against

the wall and the tissue bleeds. I'm just not fond of that idea.