RE: Mortality Associated with Moderate Intakes of Wine, Beer, or Spirits

[Guest guest]

It bothers me, when they say 3 to 5 glasses of wine. I like to measure

portions on my kitchen scale, and I'm wondering how large a glass of wine

should be. ?

The suggestion, that fermentation products are important, has cropped up in

my other reading. The Weston A. Price (WAP) people do a lot of fermenting,

and even the Inuits ate fermented seal flipper. Before refrigeration, the

eating of spoiled foods may have been common. It would not be shocking to

find a nutritional requirement in the products of fermentation. I have been

afraid to try at-home fermentation. I feel sure I would grow something

deadly....

Dave

***********************

Message: 15

Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:18:06 -0000

From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@...>

Subject: Re: Flax and Prostate Cancer and a lot more

Hi :

In my opinion absolutely a MUST READ: " Mortality Associated with

Moderate Intakes of Wine, Beer, or Spirits " . BMJ 1995;310:1165-9

Prospective study, 6051 men, 7234 women, end point was mortality, ten

to twelve years of follow up.

In short: escalating spirit (liquor) consumption, beyond two drinks

a day, resulted in rapidly escalating mortality. Escalating beer

consumption had no net effect on mortality in either direction up to

five beers a day. Escalating wine consumption was associated with a

strong dose-dependent REDUCTION in mortality. Mortality was reduced

by 49% in those drinking three to five glasses of wine daily compared

with those who never drank wine.

THIS STRONGLY SUGGESTS IT IS NOT THE ALCOHOL THAT CONFERS THE

BENEFIT. Most likely the benefit derives from what wine makers refer

to as the 'products of fermentation' which are absent in liquor,

because it is distilled, and lower in beer because it has much lower

amount of alcohol/fermentation products.

I ought to drink more wine than I do.

If anyone knows of any other substance we can add to our diet for

which a prospective study of over 10,000 subjects, studied for more

than ten years, by an organization (in this case the Danish

Epidemiology Science Centre) that has no obvious axe to grind, has

shown a reduction in mortality as large as or greater than this,

PLEEEASE post it. Thank you.

[The study also took account of smoking; BMI; education; and income]

Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave:

A glass of wine is generally defined as four fluid ounces of normal

table wine with ~12% alcohol. In the danish study they used 12 g

ALCOHOL to represent one drink - for all three beverages. The

standard serving of wine, beer or liquor in most places amounts to

the same amount of alcohol.

If you were to ferment something, why would you do it differently

from other (professional) wine makers? So why would your wine grow

something deadly, when theirs apparently do not? As Pasteur was the

first to point out, because of its alcohol wine is incredibly bug-

free. Not many living organisms, and no harmful ones as far as is

known, can survive 12% alcohol.

Rodney.

--- In , " Dave Filice " <cubit@t...>

wrote:

> It bothers me, when they say 3 to 5 glasses of wine. I like to

measure

> portions on my kitchen scale, and I'm wondering how large a glass

of wine

> should be. ?

>

> The suggestion, that fermentation products are important, has

cropped up in

> my other reading. The Weston A. Price (WAP) people do a lot of

fermenting,

> and even the Inuits ate fermented seal flipper. Before

refrigeration, the

> eating of spoiled foods may have been common. It would not be

shocking to

> find a nutritional requirement in the products of fermentation. I

have been

> afraid to try at-home fermentation. I feel sure I would grow

something

> deadly....

>

> Dave

>

>

> ***********************

> Message: 15

> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:18:06 -0000

> From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...>

> Subject: Re: Flax and Prostate Cancer and a lot more

>

>

> Hi :

>

> In my opinion absolutely a MUST READ: " Mortality Associated with

> Moderate Intakes of Wine, Beer, or Spirits " . BMJ 1995;310:1165-9

>

> Prospective study, 6051 men, 7234 women, end point was mortality,

ten

> to twelve years of follow up.

>

> In short: escalating spirit (liquor) consumption, beyond two drinks

> a day, resulted in rapidly escalating mortality. Escalating beer

> consumption had no net effect on mortality in either direction up to

> five beers a day. Escalating wine consumption was associated with a

> strong dose-dependent REDUCTION in mortality. Mortality was reduced

> by 49% in those drinking three to five glasses of wine daily

compared

> with those who never drank wine.

>

> THIS STRONGLY SUGGESTS IT IS NOT THE ALCOHOL THAT CONFERS THE

> BENEFIT. Most likely the benefit derives from what wine makers

refer

> to as the 'products of fermentation' which are absent in liquor,

> because it is distilled, and lower in beer because it has much lower

> amount of alcohol/fermentation products.

>

> I ought to drink more wine than I do.

>

> If anyone knows of any other substance we can add to our diet for

> which a prospective study of over 10,000 subjects, studied for more

> than ten years, by an organization (in this case the Danish

> Epidemiology Science Centre) that has no obvious axe to grind, has

> shown a reduction in mortality as large as or greater than this,

> PLEEEASE post it. Thank you.

>

> [The study also took account of smoking; BMI; education; and income]

>

> Rodney.