Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 , IMO, The problem with diabetes type 2 is the people eat too much, as in calories, not the % fat or carbos. The problem with high TC is the people eat too much. The problem with obesity is the people eat too much. The lady should get/take advice from her doctor and not rely on website "nutrition" to cure it. CR alleviates those problems as seen in the WUSTL study. Here's "coconut oil and diabetes": Int J Cardiol. 1997 Jan 3;58(1):63-70. Association of higher saturated fat intake with higher risk of hypertension in an urban population of Trivandrum in south India.Beegom R, Singh RB.Department of Home Science, College for Women, Trivandrum, India.Saturated fat intake appears to be a risk factor of insulin resistance which is important in the pathogenesis of diabetes and cardiovascular disease. This study aims to demonstrate whether saturated fat intake may be a risk factor of hypertension. Cross-sectional survey in six randomly selected streets in Trivandrum city in south India was conducted to study 1497 randomly selected subjects (737 males and 760 females) of 25-64 years of age. The prevalence of hypertension by Joint National Committee V criteria (> 140/90 were 34.6% (n = 255) in males and 30.7% (n = 234) in females. The consumption of food groups showed that they were within desirable limits. However, the intake of fruit, vegetable, legume and coconuts was lower and saturated fat intake higher (> 10% kcal/day), although total fat intake was within desirable limits. Total and saturated fat intake, and the consumption of coconut oil and butter, flesh foods, milk and yogurt as well as sugar and jaggery were significantly associated with hypertension. Total visible fat (> 20 g/day) intake was positively associated whereas fruit, vegetable, legume and coconut intake (< 400 g/day) was inversely associated with hypertension. Salt intake (> 8 g/day), smoking and illiteracy were not associated with hypertension. Multivariate logistic regression analysis showed that saturated fat intake, age and body mass index were independently and strongly associated with hypertension whereas fruits, vegetable, legume and coconuts, coconut oil and butter and alcohol (males) intakes were weakly associated with hypertension. The odds ratio indicate higher risk of hypertension due to higher intake of saturated fat in both sexes (mean: odds ratio, 1.07, 95% confidence interval 1.05-1.09; women, 1.08, 1.06-1.12, P < 0.01). Significant determinants of hypertension were higher saturated fat, particularly coconut oil, and lower fruit, vegetable, legume and coconuts, particularly legumes and coconuts in the diet, apart from conventional risk factors.PMID: 9021429 Here's "coconut and olive and diabetes": Endocrinology. 2001 Mar;142(3):1148-55. Monounsaturated fatty acid diets improve glycemic tolerance through increased secretion of glucagon-like peptide-1.Rocca AS, LaGreca J, Kalitsky J, Brubaker PL.Department of Physiology, University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.Diets enriched in monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFA)s have been shown to benefit glycemic control. Furthermore, MUFAs specifically stimulate secretion of the antidiabetic hormone, Glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) in vitro. To determine whether the MUFA-induced benefit in glycemic tolerance in vivo is due to increased GLP-1 release, lean Zucker rats were pair-fed a synthetic diet containing 5% fat derived from either olive oil (OO; 74% MUFA) or coconut oil (CO; 87% saturated fatty acids; SFA) for 2 weeks. Food intake and body weight gain were similar for both groups over the feeding period. The OO group had improved glycemic tolerance compared with the CO group in both oral and duodenal glucose tolerance tests [area under curve (AUC) 121 +/- 61 vs. 290 +/- 24 mM.120 min, P < 0.05; and 112 +/- 28 vs. 266 +/- 65 mM.120 min, P < 0.05, respectively]. This was accompanied by increased secretion of gut glucagon-like immunoreactivity (gGLI; an index of GLP-1 levels) in the OO rats compared with the CO rats (402 +/- 96 vs. 229 +/- 33 pg/ml at t = 10 min, P < 0.05). Tissue levels of GLP-1 and plasma insulin and glucagon levels were not different between the two groups. To determine the total contribution of GLP-1 to the enhanced glycemic tolerance in OO rats, the GLP-1 receptor antagonist exendin(9-39) (Ex(9-39)) was infused 3 min before a duodenal glucose tolerance test. Ex(9-39) abolished the benefit in glycemic tolerance conferred by OO feeding (OO+Ex(9-39) vs. CO+Ex(9-39), P = NS), and resulted in a deterioration of glycemic tolerance in the OO+Ex(9-39) group when compared with the OO controls (AUC 331 +/- 21 vs. 112 +/- 28 mM.120 min, P < 0.05). To probe the mechanism by which the OO diet enhanced GLP-1 secretion, a GLP-1-secreting L cell line was incubated for 24 h with either 100 microM oleic acid (MUFA) or 100 microM palmitic acid (SFA) and subsequently challenged with GIP, a known stimulator of the L cell. Preexposure to oleic acid but not to palmitic acid significantly increased GIP-induced GLP-1 secretion when compared with controls (55 +/- 12% vs. 34 +/- 9%, P < 0.01). These results demonstrate that the benefit in glycemic tolerance obtained with MUFA diets occurs in association with increased GLP-1 secretion, through a mechanism of enhanced L cell sensitivity. These results suggest that diet therapy with MUFAs may be useful for the treatment of patients with impaired glucose tolerance and/or type 2 diabetes through increased GLP-1 secretion. PMID: 11181530 coconut and soybean and diabetes J Cardiovasc Risk. 1996 Dec;3(6):489-94. , Recommendations for the prevention of coronary artery disease in Asians: a scientific statement of the International College of Nutrition.Singh RB, Mori H, Chen J, Mendis S, Moshiri M, Zhu S, Kim SH, Sy RG, Faruqui AM.Medical Hospital and Research Centre, Moradabad, India.There has been a rapid increase in coronary artery disease (CAD) in most Asian countries in association with rapid economic development; however, there is no consensus of opinion on diet and lifestyle guidelines and desirable levels of risk factors for prevention of CAD in these countries. The proportion of deaths due to cardiovascular diseases in Asians may be about 15% but there are wide variations. In view of the lower fat intake of the low-risk rural populations of India, the People's Republic of China, Indonesia, Korea, Thailand and Japan compared with that of urban subjects, the limit for total energy from fat intake in an average should be 21% (7% each from saturated, polyunsaturated and mono-unsaturated fatty acids). The n-6: n-3 fatty acids ration should be < 5.0. The carbohydrates intake should be > 65% and mainly from complex carbohydrates (> 55%). A body mass index of 21 kg/m2 may be safe but the range may be 18.5-23.0 kg/m2 and someone with a body mass index > 23 kg/m2 should be considered overweight. A waist: waist:hip ratio > 0.88 for men and > 0.85 for women should be considered to define central obesity. The desirable limit for serum total cholesterol may be 170 mg/dl, the borderline high level may be 170-199 mg/dl and the high level 200 mg/dl or above. The corresponding values for low-density lipoprotein cholesterol may be 90, 90-109 and 110 mg/dl or above. Fasting serum triglycerides may be < 150 mg/dl and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol > 35 mg/dl, which are close to the levels in low-risk rural populations. Fasting blood glucose > 140 mg/dl and postprandial blood glucose > 200 mg/dl may be considered conditions for diabetes, and 140-200 mg/dl, glucose intolerance. An intake of 400 g/day fruit, vegetables and legumes, mustard or soybean oil (25 g/day) instead of hydrogenated fat, coconut oil or butter in conjunction with moderate physical activity (1255 kJ/day), cessation of tobacco consumption and moderation of alcohol intake may be an effective package of remedies for prevention of CAD in Asians. PMID: 9100083 Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: rwalkerad1970 Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:42 AM Subject: [ ] Re: The Coconut Diet JW - "I don't believe the data you state."what do you not believe JW, I made sure all the figures I posted were correct as I know people like to look at data here, I have seen her lipid print outs and talked to the doctors about her results (she had to go hospital for a few days at first to stabilize her sugar via insulin) also seen a few other blood tests (kidney, liver etc) and they are 100% genuine - what I wrote is the real experience of a real person, not a study in a journal, it is cold hard facts. It must not make sense to something in your mind but all the data I give is reality. So what is unbelievable, it seems quite normal to me, if you want to control raging blood sugar with a high fat diet then its easy and does work, nothing hard to understand there, but her cholesterol has gone sky high as a result of this - she will have to decide which is the most deadliest, high blood sugar or high cholesterol, with high cholesterol from the fat diet she does not have any visible complications (though I fear for her heart arteries in the long term) but she was getting blurred vision, tingling fingers, sore feet, frequent urination, excessive thirst, massive yeast problem and they are all gone now. She has just in the last 3 months switched to a high nut diet (walnuts and almonds) with some olive oil and coconut and she should have the results this week or at least within two weeks (her recent coconut madness came at the tail end of her last blood test period), just two bars of 200g coconut in the four days before her test so hopefully that will have not had much impact. I don't know what to expect from the next results in relation to her cholesterol but I can post a message on them when they arrive. I would think the LDL should have gone down. ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 There's already palm kernel oil (81% sat fat) and palm (49% sat fat) are very common; babassu (a palm tree), cupu assu (touted - has half the MUFA of olive), ucuhuba (85% sat fat). Bear in mind the term "cocoa butter" means two things. One is coconut oil, the other cocoa bean fat (31% MUFA) used in making chocolate, often replaced with other tropical oils in cheap chocolate. ----- Original Message ----- From: rwalkerad1970 Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 10:09 AM Subject: [ ] Re: The Coconut Diet Jeff wrote "Does anyone think that the "timing" of this new diet book is coincidental to the food industries removal of hydrogenated/trans fats from the food supply this year?" >>> I too was wondering what they would eventually replace those hydrogenated/trans fats with, maybe in a few years we will have nothing but coconut oil in all our junk foods with a label saying "healthy medium chain fatty acids" (notice the lack of the word saturated). And then we will have to wade through another decade of pubmed references showing a million more different creatures fed coconut fatty acids to see if they drop dead or not.richard .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 While we're getting a little off track with health advice to mitigate disorders that appear related to overeating, allow me to restate the obvious. Reduced energy intake will IMO be the single most significant dietary influence. If you are eating less than you burn, your body will have to get energy from somewhere. -------- Regarding type II diabetes and insulin resistance, physical exercise is useful to improve muscular insulin sensitivity. I liked the classic (Dr.) Rosedale lecture for a good overview on insulin and health affects. http://www.bowennst.com/Insulin_2.html ------- Coco " nuts " .. do a search asked and answered before. --------- Re: MCD recent sales success. Yes sales are up, and attributed to offering healthier fare (salads, etc). As has been noted these salads w/dressing are not exactly CR friendly, but it suggests the mass market at least on some level wants to eat healthier. This compares to another chain offering a single burger that has more calories than some of CR regulars consume in a whole day. I don't know whether the limitation against the population feeding more wisely is simply knowledge of what is truly good or bad, or available choices. I suspect there may be a third confounder which is related to human nature's focus on short term " urgent " issues, relegating important things like daily food choices to only barely conscious, " What do I feel like eating today? " decision making. I am tired of blaming the food giants alone for the problem as they bend over backwards to give customers what they want, the real battle as I see it is to better inform consumers so natural market forces will drive the food industry to clean up and offer healthier fare. I'd love to be able to buy, rather than have make pretty much every meal/food I eat (other than fruits which I must credit another maker). ------------ Sorry for so much non-CR discussion. Perhaps that's good? JR -----Original Message----- From: rwalkerad1970 [mailto:rwalkerad1970@...] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 10:45 AM Subject: [ ] Re: The Coconut Diet okay Rodney, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons look nasty enough as well. As to the fats, I recommended to her walnuts and almonds as both had been shown in pubmed studies to lower cholesterol significantly so I am really interested to see what this more poly and mono diet does to her lipids, the doctor said he would ring her a few days back if there was a change for the worse, so no news is good news. But with her still higher than normal blood sugars I don't know if her lipids will react in the same way as the pub med studies suggest, but time will tell. - i would hate to have her dilema, eat a high fat diet and get slightly elevated blood sugars and dangerous LDL or eat a higher carb diet with a safer LDL, still slightly elevated blood sugars but have to do two insulin injections a day and live with the hypos (low blood sugars)she gets due to being quite active and the risk therefore of going into a coma during her sleep beacuse she did a few miles extra on her bike that day. thanks richard .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 HTN does not show up right away, although after BP gets high, a low fat diet will help lower it. Once the damage is done, as in athero/arteriosclerosis, there's little short term effect of a low fat on the arterial buildup (2 to 5 yrs per Ornish), but the short term effect on a hypertensive's BP is dramatic. A small BP rise, however, is seen even in teens, in the Bogalusa heart study, due to arterial changes. If children's BP is followed, they can predict who will have HTN in later years, defined as exceeding the 140/90 mark. I suspect that could be changed with dietary changes. Logically, the overriding thing, is we can't store a lot of fat if we're not eating excess energy. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: rwalkerad1970 Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 11:08 AM Subject: [ ] Re: The Coconut Diet thanks JW, for those studies, the hypertension study completely gets is wrong for her as with a high sat fat diet she has a resting blood pressure of 100/60, the high mono and poly diet has given her a resting blood pressure of 100/60, no change at all, her BMI though is about 18.2 as she urinates excess sugar so doesn't keep all her calories, so essentially she is calorie restricting unintentionally . The doctors did a test which said she was probably type two diabetic but she is not insulin resistant, she seems to have had most of her beta cells which produce insulin destroyed (at age 41), but no idea why or how. So she really has to be treated as a type one as far as intervention goes. So maybe those studies cannot be applied to her. As to the study on glycemic tolerance, will have to see if her blood sugars have improved on the mono/poly diet when the result come in, but from her meter readings done 3 times a day they look similar to the sat fat diet results so far, maybe a touch higher, but winter has made her a bit less active so that will raise her sugars a little I suppose.But, when messing with my diet recently I used a lot of sat fats and noticed my blood pressure go up from 109/61 to 126/76 on high sat fat days (this doesn't happen with mono fats), so for me sat fats are a real problem in excess for blood pressure.richard .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Tony: the equation may as well be in Greek. Can it be simplified any so that us non tech types can understand? Or perhaps all we need to know is to use one of the three oils below to lower cholesterol? BTW both safflower and sunflower oil (both of which are much less expensive and more readily obtained than grapeseed oil) stay nice and liquid and don't harden in the fridge like olive oil (for those who like to refrigerate oils to prevent rancidity.) on 1/31/2005 3:17 PM, citpeks at citpeks@... wrote: > Don't forget about the Hegsted equation. This topic was covered before > in Message 14645 and Message 14624. Myristic acid (C14:0) and to some > extent palmitic acid (C16:0) increase cholesterol, whereas linoleic > acid (C18:2) decreases cholesterol. > > The Hegsted Equation: > > DeltaTC = > + 8.45 Delta C14:0 > + 2.12 DeltaC16:0 > - 1.87 DeltaC18:2 > + 5.64 DeltaDietaryCholesterol > - 6.24 > > Where DeltaTC is in mg/dL. > DeltaC14:0, DeltaC16:0, and DeltaC18:2 are in %kcal. > DeltaDietaryCholesterol is in mg/1000 kcal. > > I you are going to be supplementing with oils to try to lower > cholesterol, you should start with sources of linoleic acid: Safflower > oil (78% LA), grape seed oil (73% LA), or sunflower oil (68% LA). > > Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Grapeseed oil is what I had in mind. I wonder if would upload your spreadsheet to the files section, with Francesca's permission? Then others can add SR17 data as they choose. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: citpeks Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 8:03 AM Subject: [ ] Re: The Coconut Diet The fatty acid distributions of fats and oils is what influences lipidmetabolism. A high oleic safflower oil would probably have more oleicacid (C18:1) and less linoleic acid (C18:2), and consequently, itwould be less effective at reducing cholesterol.I have been using "Sadaf" grapeseed oil from Italy. I bought a quartbottle for $6.99 at an oriental supermarket. It has a slightlygreenish tinge and a neutral taste. There is no bitterness. You canget more information at their web site:http://www.sadaf.com/Tony >>>From: "loganruns73" <loganruns73@y...>Date: Thu Feb 3, 2005 12:33 amA problem with unrefined, high linoleic safflower oil is it has agreen taste similar to a bitter salad green. Would high oleicsafflower have a superior DeltaTC vs olive oil?>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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