Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Hi : Quite some time ago here there was a discussion of coconut oil. I did a pubmed search and did not find a single study in the first twenty listed that claimed any health benefit, while quite a few showed health hazards, and I documented that here. I believe JW did a search for 'coconut oil benefit' and found only one of the more than 1000 studies listed for coconut oil that also included the word 'benefit'. But take a look at what fats coconut oil contains. OVER 90% SATURATED, AND PRINCIPALLY (65%) LAURIC AND MYRISTIC ACIDS. My understanding is that they are THE worst saturated fats. And in addition to that ....... truly HUGE quantities of polycyclic amines. I would guess my post referred to above might have been around post #10000. But I am not good at guessing these things. Rodney. > > as this was mentioned in a previous post, I was wondering if any one > has some pubmed references for ill effects of coconut fat on lipids > or any other area of human health. Reason I am wondering is a > friend has just got one of those Coconut Diet books and in the last > two weeks has gone through eight 200g bars of dried creamed coconut > and I really feel uneasy about this, but need some good studies > specifically on coconut to scare her away from this route. She has > much higher than normal blood sugars and is using fats to avoid her > blood sugars going too high, a high fat diet, 65% of calories, has > got her sugars down from a three month average of 600 to 115 - this > is not an error - six hundred to one hundred and fifteen) which is > working very well, but I would rather her stick to almonds, > avocadoes and olive oil, until she considers some medication > (tablets don't work for her, but insulin does, but she hates > injecting herself so is avoiding this approach for now). She already > tried Atkins (with emphasis on dairy and eggs and meat fats) and her > LDL went from 100 to 200, (although her triglycerides were halved > (150 down to 70) and HDL increased from 60 to 80) and blood sugar > went down to 115, hence the coconut attempts now as the doctor is > worried about her LDL. She eats around 2100 calories a day and is > five foot nine high, age 44 and had bulemia for 20 years. > > thanks .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Ill effects? My reaction is: I don't believe the data you state. I'll need to see a certified statement from a doctor. Just an advertisement for another dumb book. And that's my nicest response. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: rwalkerad1970 Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:44 AM Subject: [ ] The Coconut Diet as this was mentioned in a previous post, I was wondering if any one has some pubmed references for ill effects of coconut fat on lipids or any other area of human health. Reason I am wondering is a friend has just got one of those Coconut Diet books and in the last two weeks has gone through eight 200g bars of dried creamed coconut and I really feel uneasy about this, but need some good studies specifically on coconut to scare her away from this route. She has much higher than normal blood sugars and is using fats to avoid her blood sugars going too high, a high fat diet, 65% of calories, has got her sugars down from a three month average of 600 to 115 - this is not an error - six hundred to one hundred and fifteen) which is working very well, but I would rather her stick to almonds, avocadoes and olive oil, until she considers some medication (tablets don't work for her, but insulin does, but she hates injecting herself so is avoiding this approach for now). She already tried Atkins (with emphasis on dairy and eggs and meat fats) and her LDL went from 100 to 200, (although her triglycerides were halved (150 down to 70) and HDL increased from 60 to 80) and blood sugar went down to 115, hence the coconut attempts now as the doctor is worried about her LDL. She eats around 2100 calories a day and is five foot nine high, age 44 and had bulemia for 20 years.thanks .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Does anyone think that the " timing " of this new diet book is coincidental to the food industies removal of hydrogenated/trans fats from the food supply this year? Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 JW - " I don't believe the data you state. " what do you not believe JW, I made sure all the figures I posted were correct as I know people like to look at data here, I have seen her lipid print outs and talked to the doctors about her results (she had to go hospital for a few days at first to stabilize her sugar via insulin) also seen a few other blood tests (kidney, liver etc) and they are 100% genuine - what I wrote is the real experience of a real person, not a study in a journal, it is cold hard facts. It must not make sense to something in your mind but all the data I give is reality. So what is unbelievable, it seems quite normal to me, if you want to control raging blood sugar with a high fat diet then its easy and does work, nothing hard to understand there, but her cholesterol has gone sky high as a result of this - she will have to decide which is the most deadliest, high blood sugar or high cholesterol, with high cholesterol from the fat diet she does not have any visible complications (though I fear for her heart arteries in the long term) but she was getting blurred vision, tingling fingers, sore feet, frequent urination, excessive thirst, massive yeast problem and they are all gone now. She has just in the last 3 months switched to a high nut diet (walnuts and almonds) with some olive oil and coconut and she should have the results this week or at least within two weeks (her recent coconut madness came at the tail end of her last blood test period), just two bars of 200g coconut in the four days before her test so hopefully that will have not had much impact. I don't know what to expect from the next results in relation to her cholesterol but I can post a message on them when they arrive. I would think the LDL should have gone down. ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Thanks Rodney, I am not bothered if its got benefits or not really, just wanted to know if its likely to cause her heart problems in the same way other sat fats can, the coconut diet book she read essentially only had I think it was four studies on pubmed, the rest were just links to other books on the same subject. So I wanted one or two studies on pubmed I could print out (human studies, she won't buy any mice data) just to give her a more balanced view, specifically with the word coconut and something bad (CHD, cancer etc) connected with it. I will have a look at the archives and the polycyclic amines sound like nasty things, so I could try pushing that side of the argument to her. richard .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Jeff wrote " Does anyone think that the " timing " of this new diet book is coincidental to the food industries removal of hydrogenated/trans fats from the food supply this year? " >> > I too was wondering what they would eventually replace those hydrogenated/trans fats with, maybe in a few years we will have nothing but coconut oil in all our junk foods with a label saying " healthy medium chain fatty acids " (notice the lack of the word saturated). And then we will have to wade through another decade of pubmed references showing a million more different creatures fed coconut fatty acids to see if they drop dead or not. richard .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Hi : Clearly this is not a place people give each other health advice about how to fix potentially life-threatening individual conditions. There are plenty of places on the net for those who are looking for that ......... unfortunately for those on the receiving end of the advice to be had at those places. That said, some fats have been shown by major studies to be neutral or better than neutral wrt lipids values. The Nurses' Health Study found olive oil to me marginally beneficial for serum lipids. It found polys to be sizeably beneficial. I am aware of no serious peer- reviewed studies that suggest an oil that is predominantly myristic and lauric will do anything but dramatically raise serum lipids and clog arteries. But that does not mean there may not be one to be found somewhere. ALA may be OK for women as they do not get prostate cancer. Linoleic not only is essential, it appears beneficial beyond its essentiality. But your friend will have to experiment to find out what works for her situation, which may be unique. Good luck to her. Under your guidance (direction?!) I am confident she will find the solution. But as you will realize the solution will CERTAINLY not be found in the pages of the latest fad diet book. Rodney. > > JW - " I don't believe the data you state. " > > what do you not believe JW, I made sure all the figures I posted > were correct as I know people like to look at data here, I have seen > her lipid print outs and talked to the doctors about her results > (she had to go hospital for a few days at first to stabilize her > sugar via insulin) also seen a few other blood tests (kidney, liver > etc) and they are 100% genuine - what I wrote is the real experience > of a real person, not a study in a journal, it is cold hard facts. > It must not make sense to something in your mind but all the data I > give is reality. So what is unbelievable, it seems quite normal to > me, if you want to control raging blood sugar with a high fat diet > then its easy and does work, nothing hard to understand there, but > her cholesterol has gone sky high as a result of this - she will > have to decide which is the most deadliest, high blood sugar or high > cholesterol, with high cholesterol from the fat diet she does not > have any visible complications (though I fear for her heart arteries > in the long term) but she was getting blurred vision, tingling > fingers, sore feet, frequent urination, excessive thirst, massive > yeast problem and they are all gone now. She has just in the last 3 > months switched to a high nut diet (walnuts and almonds) with some > olive oil and coconut and she should have the results this week or > at least within two weeks (her recent coconut madness came at the > tail end of her last blood test period), just two bars of 200g > coconut in the four days before her test so hopefully that will have > not had much impact. I don't know what to expect from the next > results in relation to her cholesterol but I can post a message on > them when they arrive. I would think the LDL should have gone down. > > ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Hi : Sorry, I got that wrong. It is polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. Apologies. VERY recently posted here. Rodney. > > Thanks Rodney, I am not bothered if its got benefits or not really, > just wanted to know if its likely to cause her heart problems in the > same way other sat fats can, the coconut diet book she read > essentially only had I think it was four studies on pubmed, the rest > were just links to other books on the same subject. So I wanted one > or two studies on pubmed I could print out (human studies, she won't > buy any mice data) just to give her a more balanced view, > specifically with the word coconut and something bad (CHD, cancer > etc) connected with it. I will have a look at the archives and the > polycyclic amines sound like nasty things, so I could try pushing > that side of the argument to her. > > richard .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 okay Rodney, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons look nasty enough as well. As to the fats, I recommended to her walnuts and almonds as both had been shown in pubmed studies to lower cholesterol significantly so I am really interested to see what this more poly and mono diet does to her lipids, the doctor said he would ring her a few days back if there was a change for the worse, so no news is good news. But with her still higher than normal blood sugars I don't know if her lipids will react in the same way as the pub med studies suggest, but time will tell. - i would hate to have her dilema, eat a high fat diet and get slightly elevated blood sugars and dangerous LDL or eat a higher carb diet with a safer LDL, still slightly elevated blood sugars but have to do two insulin injections a day and live with the hypos (low blood sugars)she gets due to being quite active and the risk therefore of going into a coma during her sleep beacuse she did a few miles extra on her bike that day. thanks richard .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 thanks JW, for those studies, the hypertension study completely gets is wrong for her as with a high sat fat diet she has a resting blood pressure of 100/60, the high mono and poly diet has given her a resting blood pressure of 100/60, no change at all, her BMI though is about 18.2 as she urinates excess sugar so doesn't keep all her calories, so essentially she is calorie restricting unintentionally . The doctors did a test which said she was probably type two diabetic but she is not insulin resistant, she seems to have had most of her beta cells which produce insulin destroyed (at age 41), but no idea why or how. So she really has to be treated as a type one as far as intervention goes. So maybe those studies cannot be applied to her. As to the study on glycemic tolerance, will have to see if her blood sugars have improved on the mono/poly diet when the result come in, but from her meter readings done 3 times a day they look similar to the sat fat diet results so far, maybe a touch higher, but winter has made her a bit less active so that will raise her sugars a little I suppose. But, when messing with my diet recently I used a lot of sat fats and noticed my blood pressure go up from 109/61 to 126/76 on high sat fat days (this doesn't happen with mono fats), so for me sat fats are a real problem in excess for blood pressure. richard .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Exactly how many years ago was it that all the tropical oils were hauled out of snack foods because of unhealthiness/saturated fat content? Does the majority of the country have memory loss due to clogged arteries and poor blood circulation to the brain? > > Jeff wrote " Does anyone think that the " timing " of this new diet > book is coincidental to the food industries removal of > hydrogenated/trans fats from the food supply this year? " >> > > > I too was wondering what they would eventually replace those > hydrogenated/trans fats with, maybe in a few years we will have > nothing but coconut oil in all our junk foods with a label > saying " healthy medium chain fatty acids " (notice the lack of the > word saturated). And then we will have to wade through another > decade of pubmed references showing a million more different > creatures fed coconut fatty acids to see if they drop dead or not. > > richard .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 > > That said, some fats have been shown by major studies to be neutral > or better than neutral wrt lipids values. The Nurses' Health Study > found olive oil to me marginally beneficial for serum lipids. It > found polys to be sizeably beneficial. I am aware of no serious peer- > reviewed studies that suggest an oil that is predominantly myristic > and lauric will do anything but dramatically raise serum lipids and > clog arteries. But that does not mean there may not be one to be > found somewhere. Here is a link from the University of Colorado regarding the various forms of saturated fat. It is in answer to a question about chocolate, but it does mention coconut oil and how some recent studies (unfortunately, not given) have pointed to lauric acid's neutral action on cholesterol levels. Interestingly, it also notes that palmitic acid (also found in coconut oil) was only hyper- cholesterolemic in individuals with already high levels. http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/healthyheart/0401-02c.html - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Hi : It occurs to me that your friend's problem presents the ideal situation for a one-person experiment that would not only be vitally important to her, but also extraordinarily interesting to everyone here as well. Here is the idea. It seems she needs to know which fat type results in the best combination of blood sugar and blood lipids in her case. So it would be fascinating to see, over coming months the effects of five different oils on her test results. First, she is already 'supplementing' with coconut oil. That should show the effects of a diet high in lauric and myristic. Next, perhaps, she might want to try a high linolenic supplementation. For that she would try ground flax seeds. After that, perhaps high linoleic acid - for which the high-poly version of safflower oil would be best. Then, perhaps, high oleic acid, for which almonds would be ideal. Then, possibly, high palmitic. Most things seem to contain 5% to 10% palmitic, the only higher exception I know of is - yes, you guessed right - palm oil! (Palm oil does NOT have the lauric/myristic problem, so it may well be worth a try). After trying all these hopefully one will show decidedly better test results than the others. It would be really great if you could share the results with everyone here. It is only an experiment with one 'mouse' but for years I have wondered why no one seems to have done the definitive study on this, but with 1000 participants. This would be a start. Rodney. > > thanks JW, for those studies, the hypertension study completely gets > is wrong for her as with a high sat fat diet she has a resting blood > pressure of 100/60, the high mono and poly diet has given her a > resting blood pressure of 100/60, no change at all, her BMI though > is about 18.2 as she urinates excess sugar so doesn't keep all her > calories, so essentially she is calorie restricting > unintentionally . The doctors did a test which said she was > probably type two diabetic but she is not insulin resistant, she > seems to have had most of her beta cells which produce insulin > destroyed (at age 41), but no idea why or how. So she really has > to be treated as a type one as far as intervention goes. So maybe > those studies cannot be applied to her. As to the study on glycemic > tolerance, will have to see if her blood sugars have improved on the > mono/poly diet when the result come in, but from her meter readings > done 3 times a day they look similar to the sat fat diet results so > far, maybe a touch higher, but winter has made her a bit less active > so that will raise her sugars a little I suppose. > > But, when messing with my diet recently I used a lot of sat fats and > noticed my blood pressure go up from 109/61 to 126/76 on high sat > fat days (this doesn't happen with mono fats), so for me sat fats > are a real problem in excess for blood pressure. > > richard .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 PS: It is important to differentiate between palm oil and palm kernel oil. The former contains negligible amounts of lauric/myristic. The latter, as well as coconut, have tons of it. Rodney. > > > > thanks JW, for those studies, the hypertension study completely > gets > > is wrong for her as with a high sat fat diet she has a resting > blood > > pressure of 100/60, the high mono and poly diet has given her a > > resting blood pressure of 100/60, no change at all, her BMI though > > is about 18.2 as she urinates excess sugar so doesn't keep all her > > calories, so essentially she is calorie restricting > > unintentionally . The doctors did a test which said she was > > probably type two diabetic but she is not insulin resistant, she > > seems to have had most of her beta cells which produce insulin > > destroyed (at age 41), but no idea why or how. So she really has > > to be treated as a type one as far as intervention goes. So maybe > > those studies cannot be applied to her. As to the study on glycemic > > tolerance, will have to see if her blood sugars have improved on > the > > mono/poly diet when the result come in, but from her meter readings > > done 3 times a day they look similar to the sat fat diet results so > > far, maybe a touch higher, but winter has made her a bit less > active > > so that will raise her sugars a little I suppose. > > > > But, when messing with my diet recently I used a lot of sat fats > and > > noticed my blood pressure go up from 109/61 to 126/76 on high sat > > fat days (this doesn't happen with mono fats), so for me sat fats > > are a real problem in excess for blood pressure. > > > > richard .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Rodney Wrote " Here is the idea. It seems she needs to know which fat type results in the best combination of blood sugar and blood lipids in her case.So it would be fascinating to see, over coming months the effects of five different oils on her test results. First, she is already 'supplementing' with coconut oil. That should show the effects of a diet high in lauric and myristic. Next, perhaps, she might want to try a high linolenic supplementation. For that she would try ground flax seeds. After that, perhaps high linoleic acid - for which the high-poly version of safflower oil would be best. Then, perhaps, high oleic acid, for which almonds would be ideal. Then, possibly, high palmitic. Most things seem to contain 5% to 10% palmitic, the only higher exception I know of is - yes, you guessed right - palm oil! (Palm oil does NOT have the lauric/myristic problem, so it may well be worth a try). After trying all these hopefully one will show decidedly better test results than the others. It would be really great if you could share the results with everyone here. It is only an experiment with one 'mouse' but for years I have wondered why no one seems to have done the definitive study on this, but with 1000 participants. This would be a start. " >>> says " Well, the diet for the last 3 months will have come out at the highest percentage of Oleic, and I will post those result when she gets them soon. After that if the results get her (see coconut diet posts by r.walker for those new to this thread) LDL cholesterol to say 100 then she will probably stick to that diet. If the LDL is higher then I am thinking a higher poly fat diet would be best, but she won't touch linseeds but has had some unusually low blood sugar readings with walnuts so they may be the next candidate for her high fat diet. Its a pity I can't clone twenty of her, give each version a single fat diet and see what each one does to her lipids. Also, my diets pretty high oleic at the moment and will eventually see what its done to my lipids, but as I faint everytime somebody puts a needle in my arm (well, just after its taken out actually) I don't therefore go to the doctors much. ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Don't forget about the Hegsted equation. This topic was covered before in Message 14645 and Message 14624. Myristic acid (C14:0) and to some extent palmitic acid (C16:0) increase cholesterol, whereas linoleic acid (C18:2) decreases cholesterol. The Hegsted Equation: DeltaTC = + 8.45 Delta C14:0 + 2.12 DeltaC16:0 - 1.87 DeltaC18:2 + 5.64 DeltaDietaryCholesterol - 6.24 Where DeltaTC is in mg/dL. DeltaC14:0, DeltaC16:0, and DeltaC18:2 are in %kcal. DeltaDietaryCholesterol is in mg/1000 kcal. I you are going to be supplementing with oils to try to lower cholesterol, you should start with sources of linoleic acid: Safflower oil (78% LA), grape seed oil (73% LA), or sunflower oil (68% LA). Tony ==== From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...> Date: Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:25 pm Subject: Re: The Coconut Diet Hi : It occurs to me that your friend's problem presents the ideal situation for a one-person experiment that would not only be vitally important to her, but also extraordinarily interesting to everyone here as well. Here is the idea. It seems she needs to know which fat type results in the best combination of blood sugar and blood lipids in her case. So it would be fascinating to see, over coming months the effects of five different oils on her test results. First, she is already 'supplementing' with coconut oil. That should show the effects of a diet high in lauric and myristic. Next, perhaps, she might want to try a high linolenic supplementation. For that she would try ground flax seeds. After that, perhaps high linoleic acid - for which the high-poly version of safflower oil would be best. Then, perhaps, high oleic acid, for which almonds would be ideal. Then, possibly, high palmitic. Most things seem to contain 5% to 10% palmitic, the only higher exception I know of is - yes, you guessed right - palm oil! (Palm oil does NOT have the lauric/myristic problem, so it may well be worth a try). After trying all these hopefully one will show decidedly better test results than the others. It would be really great if you could share the results with everyone here. It is only an experiment with one 'mouse' but for years I have wondered why no one seems to have done the definitive study on this, but with 1000 participants. This would be a start. Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Hi Tony: I am (slowly!) warming up to Hegsted's Equation. Do we know what data he bases the formula on? Is it persuasive? TIA. Rodney. > > Don't forget about the Hegsted equation. This topic was covered before > in Message 14645 and Message 14624. Myristic acid (C14:0) and to some > extent palmitic acid (C16:0) increase cholesterol, whereas linoleic > acid (C18:2) decreases cholesterol. > > The Hegsted Equation: > > DeltaTC = > + 8.45 Delta C14:0 > + 2.12 DeltaC16:0 > - 1.87 DeltaC18:2 > + 5.64 DeltaDietaryCholesterol > - 6.24 > > Where DeltaTC is in mg/dL. > DeltaC14:0, DeltaC16:0, and DeltaC18:2 are in %kcal. > DeltaDietaryCholesterol is in mg/1000 kcal. > > I you are going to be supplementing with oils to try to lower > cholesterol, you should start with sources of linoleic acid: Safflower > oil (78% LA), grape seed oil (73% LA), or sunflower oil (68% LA). > > Tony > > ==== > From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...> > Date: Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:25 pm > Subject: Re: The Coconut Diet > Hi : > > It occurs to me that your friend's problem presents the ideal > situation for a one-person experiment that would not only be vitally > important to her, but also extraordinarily interesting to everyone > here as well. > > Here is the idea. It seems she needs to know which fat type results > in the best combination of blood sugar and blood lipids in her case. > > So it would be fascinating to see, over coming months the effects of > five different oils on her test results. > > First, she is already 'supplementing' with coconut oil. That should > show the effects of a diet high in lauric and myristic. > > Next, perhaps, she might want to try a high linolenic > supplementation. For that she would try ground flax seeds. > > After that, perhaps high linoleic acid - for which the high-poly > version of safflower oil would be best. > > Then, perhaps, high oleic acid, for which almonds would be ideal. > > Then, possibly, high palmitic. Most things seem to contain 5% to 10% > palmitic, the only higher exception I know of is - yes, you guessed > right - palm oil! (Palm oil does NOT have the lauric/myristic > problem, so it may well be worth a try). > > After trying all these hopefully one will show decidedly better test > results than the others. > > It would be really great if you could share the results with everyone > here. It is only an experiment with one 'mouse' but for years I have > wondered why no one seems to have done the definitive study on this, > but with 1000 participants. This would be a start. > > Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 The Hegsted equation became a focus of our discussion in messages 14645 and 14624 when we started discussing " Smart Balance " margarine. The patent itself has a good overview of the effect of particular fatty acids on serum cholesterol. Hegsted's 1993 paper extended some of the work that he published in 1965. By the way, since everybody knows that coconut oil is high in saturated acids, the latest labeling trick is to call it " copra oil " since " copra " is the name of the dried coconut from which the oil is derived. Tony === The Perlman patent for Smart Balance margarine, [u.S. Patent 5,382,442 Perlman , et al., January 17, 1995 (http://tinyurl.com/4xdrc) ], and found that it is based on work originally done by Hegsted, et al.: Quantitative effects of dietary fat on serum cholesterol in man. Hegsted DM, McGandy RB, Myers ML, Stare FJ. Am J Clin Nutr. 1965 Nov;17(5):281-95. PMID: 5846902 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Hegsted DM, Ausman LM, JA, Dallal GE, Dietary fat and serum lipids: an evaluation of the experimental data. Am J Clin Nutr. 1993 Jun; 57(6):875-83. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Hi Francesca: Translated it says: really really avoid stuff that contains myristic acid; avoid dietary cholesterol; try to avoid palmitic acid; and try to use linoleic acid, ................ or .............. Really really avoid coconut and palm kernel oil; you know which foods contain cholesterol, avoid them; try to avoid palm oil; and try to use safflower or sunflower where possible. Olive oil (oleic acid) is presumed to be approximately neutral. Tony will correct me if I got this wrong. Rodney. > > > Don't forget about the Hegsted equation. This topic was covered before > > in Message 14645 and Message 14624. Myristic acid (C14:0) and to some > > extent palmitic acid (C16:0) increase cholesterol, whereas linoleic > > acid (C18:2) decreases cholesterol. > > > > The Hegsted Equation: > > > > DeltaTC = > > + 8.45 Delta C14:0 > > + 2.12 DeltaC16:0 > > - 1.87 DeltaC18:2 > > + 5.64 DeltaDietaryCholesterol > > - 6.24 > > > > Where DeltaTC is in mg/dL. > > DeltaC14:0, DeltaC16:0, and DeltaC18:2 are in %kcal. > > DeltaDietaryCholesterol is in mg/1000 kcal. > > > > I you are going to be supplementing with oils to try to lower > > cholesterol, you should start with sources of linoleic acid: Safflower > > oil (78% LA), grape seed oil (73% LA), or sunflower oil (68% LA). > > > > Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Rodney, Thanks for the translating the Hegsted equation into advice that is easy to understand. Your statements are right on target. However, the fact that we have an equation makes it possible to deduce the effect on cholesterol of various oils, given that we know their fatty acid profiles. I have done that for lard, butter, coconut oil, safflower oil, and olive oil. I used a spreadsheet with the percentages of fatty acids and the dietary cholesterol for the five fats. If we assume 2000 kcal diet, we can calculate the effect of 200 calories of fat, i.e., 10% of the dietary calories, which is about 22g or 2 tablespoons. .. . . . . . . . ---- g/100g ---- mg/100g .. . . . . . . . C14:0 C16:0 C18:2 Chol. . . DeltaTC lard . . . . . . .2 . .26 . . 10 . .77 . . . 628.7 butterfat. . . . 11 . .27 . . .2 . 273 . . .1803.2 coconut oil . . .18 . . 9 . . .2 . . 0 . . .1674.4 safflower oil . . 0 . . 7 . . 78 . . 0 . . -1310.2 olive oil . . . . 0 . .13 . . 10 . . 0 . . . .88.6 Note: 14 g of butter contain 11 g of butterfat, the rest are non-fat components. Olive oil is relatively neutral with respect to cholesterol, whereas safflower oil decreases cholesterol substantially. Lard, by the way, is not too bad, but its cholesterol content makes a substantial contribution. Butter is worse than coconut oil because of the combination of high myristic acid and high cholesterol content. So given the choice of sauteeing in butter or coconut oil choose the coconut oil ;-) The numbers for lard are interesting. Notice that the increase of cholesterol caused by 2 tablespoons of lard (or beef tallow which has a similar composition) can be neutralized by one tablespoon of safflower oil. This is why in the past I have suggested that you can eat a nice fat-trimmed juicy steak as long as your salad is garnished with safflower oil, grape seed oil, or sunflower oil. Tony ===== From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...> Date: Tue Feb 1, 2005 4:24 pm Subject: Re: The Coconut Diet Hi Francesca: Translated it says: really really avoid stuff that contains myristic acid; avoid dietary cholesterol; try to avoid palmitic acid; and try to use linoleic acid, ................ or .............. Really really avoid coconut and palm kernel oil; you know which foods contain cholesterol, avoid them; try to avoid palm oil; and try to use safflower or sunflower where possible. Olive oil (oleic acid) is presumed to be approximately neutral. Tony will correct me if I got this wrong. Rodney. >From: " citpeks " <citpeks@y...> Date: Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:17 pm Subject: Re: The Coconut Diet Don't forget about the Hegsted equation. This topic was covered before in Message 14645 and Message 14624. Myristic acid (C14:0) and to some extent palmitic acid (C16:0) increase cholesterol, whereas linoleic acid (C18:2) decreases cholesterol. The Hegsted Equation: DeltaTC = + 8.45 Delta C14:0 + 2.12 DeltaC16:0 - 1.87 DeltaC18:2 + 5.64 DeltaDietaryCholesterol - 6.24 Where DeltaTC is in mg/dL. DeltaC14:0, DeltaC16:0, and DeltaC18:2 are in %kcal. DeltaDietaryCholesterol is in mg/1000 kcal. I you are going to be supplementing with oils to try to lower cholesterol, you should start with sources of linoleic acid: Safflower oil (78% LA), grape seed oil (73% LA), or sunflower oil (68% LA). Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 > > Rodney, > > Thanks for the translating the Hegsted equation into advice that is > easy to understand. Your statements are right on target. However, > the fact that we have an equation makes it possible to deduce the > effect on cholesterol of various oils, given that we know their fatty > acid profiles. I have done that for lard, butter, coconut oil, > safflower oil, and olive oil. I used a spreadsheet with the > percentages of fatty acids and the dietary cholesterol for the five > fats. > > If we assume 2000 kcal diet, we can calculate the effect of 200 > calories of fat, i.e., 10% of the dietary calories, which is about 22g > or 2 tablespoons. > > . . . . . . . . ---- g/100g ---- mg/100g > . . . . . . . . C14:0 C16:0 C18:2 Chol. . . DeltaTC > lard . . . . . . .2 . .26 . . 10 . .77 . . . 628.7 > butterfat. . . . 11 . .27 . . .2 . 273 . . .1803.2 > coconut oil . . .18 . . 9 . . .2 . . 0 . . .1674.4 > safflower oil . . 0 . . 7 . . 78 . . 0 . . -1310.2 > olive oil . . . . 0 . .13 . . 10 . . 0 . . . .88.6 Would you be so kind as to do analysis for cocoa butter? Chocolate is basically the only food I eat which contains " bad " fat. Thanks, - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 >>> Would you be so kind as to do analysis for cocoa butter? Chocolate is basically the only food I eat which contains " bad " fat. Thanks, - >>> I added two extra lines for cocoa butter and sunflower oil. Cocoa butter is not as bad as lard because there is no myristic acid and no dietary cholesterol. Notice that the effect of cocoa butter is about 1/3 of the effect of safflower oil (in opposite directions). This means that you can get a mixture that does not increase serum cholesterol by eating one part of safflower oil for every 2 parts of cocoa butter. The idea of adding safflower oil to cocoa butter did not sound very appetizing. However, chocolate covered sunflower seeds seemed like a good idea because sunflower oil is rich in linoleic acid. Sunflower seeds have approximately 50% oil. This means that approximately equal weights of cocoa butter and sunflower seeds would not increase serum cholesterol and they would make a yummy treat, although high in calories. .. . . . . . . . ---- g/100g ---- mg/100g .. . . . . . . . C14:0 C16:0 C18:2 Chol. . . DeltaTC lard . . . . . . .2 . .26 . . 10 . .77 . . . 628.7 butterfat. . . . 11 . .27 . . .2 . 273 . . .1803.2 coconut oil . . .18 . . 9 . . .2 . . 0 . . .1674.4 safflower oil . . 0 . . 7 . . 78 . . 0 . . -1310.2 olive oil . . . . 0 . .13 . . 10 . . 0 . . . .88.6 cocoa butter. . . 0 . .25 . . .3 . . 0 . . . 473.9 sunflower oil . . 0 . . 7 . . 68 . . 0 . . -1123.2 Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 A problem with unrefined, high linoleic safflower oil is it has a green taste similar to a bitter salad green. Would high oleic safflower have a superior DeltaTC vs olive oil? Logan > lard . . . . . . .2 . .26 . . 10 . .77 . . . 628.7 > butterfat. . . . 11 . .27 . . .2 . 273 . . .1803.2 > coconut oil . . .18 . . 9 . . .2 . . 0 . . .1674.4 > safflower oil . . 0 . . 7 . . 78 . . 0 . . -1310.2 > olive oil . . . . 0 . .13 . . 10 . . 0 . . . .88.6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 The fatty acid distributions of fats and oils is what influences lipid metabolism. A high oleic safflower oil would probably have more oleic acid (C18:1) and less linoleic acid (C18:2), and consequently, it would be less effective at reducing cholesterol. I have been using " Sadaf " grapeseed oil from Italy. I bought a quart bottle for $6.99 at an oriental supermarket. It has a slightly greenish tinge and a neutral taste. There is no bitterness. You can get more information at their web site: http://www.sadaf.com/ Tony >>> From: " loganruns73 " <loganruns73@y...> Date: Thu Feb 3, 2005 12:33 am A problem with unrefined, high linoleic safflower oil is it has a green taste similar to a bitter salad green. Would high oleic safflower have a superior DeltaTC vs olive oil? >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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