Re: Are Polyunsaturated Fats really good ? - Part Two

[Guest guest]

Oh dear, did not realise Weston Price (WP) had assimilated Barry

Groves (but I guess Francesca has her sources) - usually its obvious

when WP are involved, I hadn't seen their influence here so felt it

was a reasonably referenced article. WP influence is usually obvious

via references to the Wicked Witches of the West (Fallon and Enig)

and I did not notice those names appearing. Any way, in that case

forget the article, I will let my comments rest on just the pubmed

references I listed.

richard ....

[Guest guest]

thanks for the references Tony I am sure n-3 is protective against

lots of things its the n-6 fatty acids that concern me more. And

the equation you mention that a certain amount of n-6 vs sat fats

will lower LDL - I wonder if its possible to lower LDL but still by

taking in a weaker fat (n-6 more bond points) it may be more fragile

and somewhere down the line not be so good for the heart. As the

studies on LDL do show that people with both high and low LDL do

have heart attacks, I don`t think any body has said there is a safe

LDL level where CHD cannot happen (correct me if I am wrong).- As to

Rodney, thanks as always for taking the time to answer giving your

lack of a right hand. I am in the corner now with my dunces hat on,

so as you can guess these messages will not be released until a

moderator is back in the room.

richard ...

[Guest guest]

When you are referencing something from someone's WEBSITE, such as Barry

Groves's or WP's for that matter, more often than not, they're quacks, so

for goodness sakes please (at least here) be suspicious of anyone on the

web making claims. The WWW is chock full of 'em. Only quote solid sources.

And how does one know he's a bad source? Well all I had to do was read

about him (on his website) and plainly he SAYS he's affiliated with WP. I

didn't have to look far at all.

We have access via the web to the best scientific minds in the world, so why

not use the best? Peer reviewed scientific research is what we want in this

group. Walford has a whole chapter about " what to believe " in his book. And

anyone who has not read Walford should not be posting to the group.

BTW Walford's books are in public libraries - you don't even have to shell

out any money.

on 2/20/2005 3:42 PM, rwalkerad1970 at rwalkerad1970@... wrote:

>

>

> Oh dear, did not realise Weston Price (WP) had assimilated Barry

> Groves (but I guess Francesca has her sources) - usually its obvious

> when WP are involved, I hadn't seen their influence here so felt it

> was a reasonably referenced article. WP influence is usually obvious

> via references to the Wicked Witches of the West (Fallon and Enig)

> and I did not notice those names appearing. Any way, in that case

> forget the article, I will let my comments rest on just the pubmed

> references I listed.

>

> richard ....

[Guest guest]

It's not so much the lack of references but how the writers use/misuse the refs to prove their point. First, it's very hard to prove anything in medicine. Tony has not proved the value of the Hegsted equation, eg. I'm working on that.

Second the articles tend to be very specific if there is a fact. The fact is often misconstrued to mean something else. If I say Poly's are good, does not mean sat fats are bad, eg. You have to prove both to have an if and only if proof.

WP tells you up front the caveat (margarines are bad) and then switches to talking about poly's. Margarines have been hydrogenated or lard for many years. Maybe margarine does cause cancer, not necessarily oils. Another point in logic: excess consumption of fats/oils, we think causes a lot of things including obesity and obesity is associated with cancer. That does not mean poly's cause cancer. The obesity causes cancer maybe.

For example, I hold up believing that w-3's, as in 18:3, are "good" or even essential. Need the proof.

Second, I need the article of Hegsted's to show what his equation is (next time I go to the library). But I'm not in a hurry, I have a text book that refers to it.

Third, I have difficulty thinking that the measurement of serum TC is congruent to atherosclerosis. Especially fasted TC.

I think it's been shown that safflower oil will lower TC, reduce weight. I'd like to see the biomechanism.

See, if I think that humans evolved to eat animals (I don't) and the animals ate a varied plant diet of grass, nuts, tubers, leaves, fruit, and the odd worm, the mammalian fat should look like what we would get eating the same stuff. So what is that "ideal" human fat distribution?

I'm not positive but I think it'd be a lot like what some of us are espousing: veggies, fruit, nuts, greens, salad greens. And not peanuts, soybeans, modern wheat, modern corn, or extracted oils.

But I need additional energy - should it be oil or grain or tubers? Which oil? Which grain? Which tuber?

Regards

----- Original Message -----

From: rwalkerad1970

Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 2:42 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Are Polyunsaturated Fats really good ? - Part Two

Oh dear, did not realise Weston Price (WP) had assimilated Barry Groves (but I guess Francesca has her sources) - usually its obvious when WP are involved, I hadn't seen their influence here so felt it was a reasonably referenced article. WP influence is usually obvious via references to the Wicked Witches of the West (Fallon and Enig)and I did not notice those names appearing. Any way, in that case forget the article, I will let my comments rest on just the pubmed references I listed. richard ....