Guest guest Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 >>> From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...> Date: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:32 pm Subject: Bone Mineral Density .... Two obvious immediate solutions are to raise my calcium intake as far as is safe (carbonate supplements may be the best route?) and acquire a weight vest ............. obese people never suffer osteoporosis. My spine numbers are worse than the hip, so a weight vest would presumably help even when in a sitting position, if it was comfortable enough to wear. >>> Rodney, As we have discussed before, bone is a protein matrix (collagen) with embedded calcium phosphate crystals (hydroxyapatite), but there are other elements, e.g.,magnesium and fluorine, that are part of the bone tissue. Milk is the perfect calcium delivery system for babies. But for adults, dairy products provide both the protein and calcium needed for strong bones. The vitamin D, which is also required, you can get as a supplement, or by sunbathing for 15 minutes daily (hard to do in Canada). If milk makes you sleepy, try yogurt or cheese. You are interpreting that obese people never suffer osteoporosis because of the extra weight that they carry. If obese people don't suffer osteoporosis, it could be because they eat so much that they don't have calcium or protein deficiencies. The weight may have nothing to do with it. Since your spine bone density numbers are low, you have a risk of developing " dowager's hump " (a severely rounded upper back). Although CR can potentially lengthen our lives and keep us from suffering CVD, diabetes, etc., it is possible that in our eagerness to reduce calories we are omitting something from our diet that is really essential for our long-term health. We have often discussed that the " Optimum Nutrition " part of CRON is not very well known, and may vary from individual to individual. Your bone density tests indicate that what you have been eating is not optimized for maintaining your bones. In your situation, it is advisable to increase (or start) consumption of dairy products. You may have to cut carbohydrate calories if you want to continue a CR program with the same number of calories. IMO, Tony ==== http://www.sportsdoctor.com/articles/osteoporosis.html http://www.scdhec.gov/news/releases/2000/html/nr6ost00.htm [osteoporosis] " can usually be prevented by eating a calcium-rich diet that builds and maintains bones; avoiding excessive caffeine which robs the bones of calcium; avoiding tobacco and excessive alcohol, which are toxic to the bones; engaging in regular (age-appropriate) weight-bearing physical exercise " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Rod: back when osteo was first diagnosed among several CR practitioners, we asked the man himself about it (in 2001, when he was still alive). His responses are in the file/folder: DR WALFORD'S POSTS. Start reading from 6/2001 on down for his thoughts on why CRONIES might be develping it and possible solutions. It will be worth your while. Those were the days, when we could ask Roy himself. on 3/18/2005 1:32 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote: > > Hi folks: > > Well I promised (threatened?) to post about my BMD numbers when I got > them, so here they are. > > Going in I could have believed either good or bad numbers. On the > good side as a teenager I consumed huge amounts of milk and got a > great deal of exercise. In addition, up until a few years ago I > jogged on average about five miles a week, two or three miles at a > time. > > On the negative side, I stopped jogging for about five years until > taking it up again - just one mile a week - recently. Also, since I > stopped drinking milk some years ago - because it makes me sleepy - I > have been running a dietary calcium deficiency which I did not > discover until a year ago, thanks to Fitday. I have been > supplementing calcium/D since I realized I was deficient. > > So the results? NOT GOOD. To cut a long story short they make seven > basic measurements, four in the spine and three in the hip. My > numbers range from, at the high end, one that is equal to the age- > matched control value, all the way down to one that is on the > threshold of osteoporosis. > > This is a real wake-up call. Great to find out about it now rather > than when overt symptoms appear (perhaps the broken arm was the overt > symptom?). I do not think these numbers have much to do with CRON. > It is only since I started CRON and at the same time analyzed my diet > on Fitday that I started taking calcium supplements. But my weight > loss will have been a minor factor. > > Two obvious immediate solutions are to raise my calcium intake as far > as is safe (carbonate supplements may be the best route?) and acquire > a weight vest ............. obese people never suffer > osteoporosis. My spine numbers are worse than the hip, so a weight > vest would presumably help even when in a sitting position, if it was > comfortable enough to wear. > > It is a little ironic that, according to the AHA Walking Fitness Test > I am very 'fit' (ridiculously fit according to their tables), yet > have decidedly poor BMD. Goes to show that " Fitness has absolutely > nothing to do with health " - Dr. Henry Soloman. > > Any input/advice here or off-list will be much appreciated. > > Rodney. > > PS: I also see the notation on the report: " Statistically 68% of > repeat scans will fall within 1 SD. " I wonder how the numbers would > look taken on another machine? They are as likely to be worse as > better of course. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 Hi Francesca: Thanks for that reference. As he said: " the time in Bio2 was not long enough to develop osteo, even on quite a severe CR diet. " Similarly, in my case, just one year (not two as in Bio2) on a marginally restricted diet (not severe as in the case of Bio2), without nutrient deficiencies (I started supplementing my two Ca and Zn deficiencies as soon as I discovered them, which was at the same time I started CRON) ............ seems entirely inadequate to explain bone loss. Logically, it stems not from my brief time on CR but from a period of a number of years after I stopped drinking milk, and during which I did not exercise much, before I started CRON. I may also have been deficient in vitamin D in the period before I established a daily fish habit, since besides fish not many foods seem to contain appreciable amounts of D. What this means nutrient and supplement-wise in coming years I have yet to figure out. But at least one (retired medical friend) serious source argues that the amino acid content of dairy and other high protein foods may actually leach calcium from bones. So I will have to sift through the evidence and draw some conclusions. I hope this will encourage others with no symptoms to get a BMD test to see where they stand, if only to use as a benchmark for future reference. (And, if over 50, get a colonoscopy done too!). Rodney. > > > > > Hi folks: > > > > Well I promised (threatened?) to post about my BMD numbers when I got > > them, so here they are. > > > > Going in I could have believed either good or bad numbers. On the > > good side as a teenager I consumed huge amounts of milk and got a > > great deal of exercise. In addition, up until a few years ago I > > jogged on average about five miles a week, two or three miles at a > > time. > > > > On the negative side, I stopped jogging for about five years until > > taking it up again - just one mile a week - recently. Also, since I > > stopped drinking milk some years ago - because it makes me sleepy - I > > have been running a dietary calcium deficiency which I did not > > discover until a year ago, thanks to Fitday. I have been > > supplementing calcium/D since I realized I was deficient. > > > > So the results? NOT GOOD. To cut a long story short they make seven > > basic measurements, four in the spine and three in the hip. My > > numbers range from, at the high end, one that is equal to the age- > > matched control value, all the way down to one that is on the > > threshold of osteoporosis. > > > > This is a real wake-up call. Great to find out about it now rather > > than when overt symptoms appear (perhaps the broken arm was the overt > > symptom?). I do not think these numbers have much to do with CRON. > > It is only since I started CRON and at the same time analyzed my diet > > on Fitday that I started taking calcium supplements. But my weight > > loss will have been a minor factor. > > > > Two obvious immediate solutions are to raise my calcium intake as far > > as is safe (carbonate supplements may be the best route?) and acquire > > a weight vest ............. obese people never suffer > > osteoporosis. My spine numbers are worse than the hip, so a weight > > vest would presumably help even when in a sitting position, if it was > > comfortable enough to wear. > > > > It is a little ironic that, according to the AHA Walking Fitness Test > > I am very 'fit' (ridiculously fit according to their tables), yet > > have decidedly poor BMD. Goes to show that " Fitness has absolutely > > nothing to do with health " - Dr. Henry Soloman. > > > > Any input/advice here or off-list will be much appreciated. > > > > Rodney. > > > > PS: I also see the notation on the report: " Statistically 68% of > > repeat scans will fall within 1 SD. " I wonder how the numbers would > > look taken on another machine? They are as likely to be worse as > > better of course. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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