Re: alternate day fasting (a.k.a. intermittent fasting)

[Guest guest]

Mothboat: some of these studies you allude to have been posted here. But

not all IIRC.

Posting the pubmed numbers or links to the studies would be helpful.

on 5/6/2005 3:58 PM, mothboat69 at albaughg@... wrote:

> I have been on a self directed IF regimen for 8 months. I still feel

> good and

> have not experienced any obvious problems. Are others in this group

> exploring IF as an alternative to CR as a paradigm for DR?

>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Please do keep us updated on your experience.

It seems 8 months should be long enough to draw some conclusions regarding

QOL issues (energy level, difficulty to follow, etc).

What were your initial conditions (BMI and previous energy balance)?

Did you establish a pre blood workup?

Some people can't handle even brief fasts, but in some respects

eating nothing may be easier than eating less. How strict is your

fast? i.e. what exactly do you ingest on fasting days?

This may be useful for many if not EOD, one or two days a week,

with unlimited amounts of " good " food the rest of time.

Just think of the health improvement if we just got the general

population eating good food. If this is easier than restricting

24x7 it may be broadly useful.

Good luck and keep us informed.

JR

-----Original Message-----

From:

[mailto: ]On Behalf Of mothboat69

Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 2:59 PM

Subject: [ ] alternate day fasting (a.k.a. intermittent

fasting)

Although most studies cite chronic (daily) calorie restriction (CR)

of 30 to 40%

in respect to energy density of ad lib comsumption, intermittent

fasting (IF),

also called alternate day fasting, wherein the animals/subjects

repeat a

pattern of eating ad lib one day and fasting the next, is the other

main

experimental model for dietary restriction. Anson, et al. have

published

several articles reporting the results of IF experiments conducted

with mice.

Results of these experiments strongly suggest that IF is brain

protective. The

animals in the IF group were much more resistant to neuronal damage

when

injected with excitotoxins (as a model for Alzheimer's disease) than

the ad lib

group, etc. Recently Heilbronn, et al. have published two papers in

which

human subjects followed an IF regimen for 3 weeks. A main finding

from this

human study is that IF increased gene expression for SIRT1, the human

ortholog of sir1, the yeast gene associated with longevity.

A potential problem with long term IF is the tendancy for some

individuals to

exhibit insulin resistance. The limited data available suggest that

this

particular aspect of IF may be gender specific: it appears to be

observed in

female study subjects but not in males.

I have been on a self directed IF regimen for 8 months. I still feel

good and

have not experienced any obvious problems. Are others in this group

exploring IF as an alternative to CR as a paradigm for DR?

[Guest guest]

Hello Francesca: I wondered if I should cite the refs to the articles that I

was

mentioning but as a new poster I wasn't sure if including that info would be

more than the group would be interested in reading, particularly in a post that

covers a subject which although related to CR is still a little outside the

scope

of the group. Since there seems to be some interest in IF, I will include those

refs in my next post. That info, along with my starting BMI, etc. is in my

files

back at the lab and I'll look it up Monday when I return to work.

>

>

> > I have been on a self directed IF regimen for 8 months. I still feel

> > good and

> > have not experienced any obvious problems. Are others in this group

> > exploring IF as an alternative to CR as a paradigm for DR?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Intermittent Fasting is a subject that comes up every so often as a way of

doing CR and is not outside the scope. Walford discusses his once a week

one day fasts in BT120YD, as a matter of fact.

I notice you've been a member for about a year here. Surprised you haven't

read the many posts on fasting.

on 5/7/2005 8:32 AM, mothboat69 at albaughg@... wrote:

> Hello Francesca: I wondered if I should cite the refs to the articles that I

> was

> mentioning but as a new poster I wasn't sure if including that info would be

> more than the group would be interested in reading, particularly in a post

> that

> covers a subject which although related to CR is still a little outside the

> scope

> of the group. Since there seems to be some interest in IF, I will include

> those

> refs in my next post. That info, along with my starting BMI, etc. is in my

> files

> back at the lab and I'll look it up Monday when I return to work.

[Guest guest]

: I'll look up my initial BMI, etc when I go back to work on Monday. I

keep

my files at the lab where I work. I can answer some of the quality of life

questions in this post however. I personally do not find it all that difficult

to go

one or two days without food. On my fasting days I drink only water or

noncaloric drinks such as green tea, coffee, diet sodas. On my ad lib days I

eat carefully but freely. On those days I certainly do eat more than I normally

would if I were eating every day but I've discovered that at least for me it's

not

possible to eat two days worth of food in one day, so initially I was in a

negative energy balance. After a month or so my weight stabilized. Currently

my weight fluctuates about 3 lb between fasting and feeding days--roughly

about the same as the subjects in Heilbronn's first article (I'll post the

citation

to these articles after I look them up Monday). An important QOL adjustment,

or strategy that I have had to make is how to make this lifestyle work within a

family environment were the other members are eating every day and

planning family meals, like this Sunday's Mother's Day meal and not cause

the folks (typically my wife, closest relatives and friends) doing the meal

prep/

planning/inviting etc. to get into a big snit. My solution to this is if I know

in

advance that a day with an unscheduled and socially unavoidable meal will

fall on a fasting day, I fast two days in advance of that date and " ratchet " my

eating/fasting schedule ahead by one day. If I don't have enough advance

warning, I just sit at the table and have a glass of water and talk while the

meal progresses. So far this strategy has minimized the family and friend

friction that is part of IF. My wife, of course thinks this regimen is rather

extreme and inconvenient, (I won't bother to print her exact comments in this

post) but I counter by telling her that if I were a type II diabetic, my eating

regimen would be a pain planning-wise every day instead of just every other

day!

> Please do keep us updated on your experience.

>

> It seems 8 months should be long enough to draw some conclusions

regarding

> QOL issues (energy level, difficulty to follow, etc).

>

> What were your initial conditions (BMI and previous energy balance)?

>

> Did you establish a pre blood workup?

>

> Some people can't handle even brief fasts, but in some respects

> eating nothing may be easier than eating less. How strict is your

> fast? i.e. what exactly do you ingest on fasting days?

>

> This may be useful for many if not EOD, one or two days a week,

> with unlimited amounts of " good " food the rest of time.

>

> Just think of the health improvement if we just got the general

> population eating good food. If this is easier than restricting

> 24x7 it may be broadly useful.

>

> Good luck and keep us informed.

>

> JR

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From:

> [mailto: ]On Behalf Of mothboat69

> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 2:59 PM

>

> Subject: [ ] alternate day fasting (a.k.a. intermittent

> fasting)

>

>

> Although most studies cite chronic (daily) calorie restriction (CR)

> of 30 to 40%

> in respect to energy density of ad lib comsumption, intermittent

> fasting (IF),

> also called alternate day fasting, wherein the animals/subjects

> repeat a

> pattern of eating ad lib one day and fasting the next, is the other

> main

> experimental model for dietary restriction. Anson, et al. have

> published

> several articles reporting the results of IF experiments conducted

> with mice.

> Results of these experiments strongly suggest that IF is brain

> protective. The

> animals in the IF group were much more resistant to neuronal damage

> when

> injected with excitotoxins (as a model for Alzheimer's disease) than

> the ad lib

> group, etc. Recently Heilbronn, et al. have published two papers in

> which

> human subjects followed an IF regimen for 3 weeks. A main finding

> from this

> human study is that IF increased gene expression for SIRT1, the human

> ortholog of sir1, the yeast gene associated with longevity.

>

> A potential problem with long term IF is the tendancy for some

> individuals to

> exhibit insulin resistance. The limited data available suggest that

> this

> particular aspect of IF may be gender specific: it appears to be

> observed in

> female study subjects but not in males.

>

> I have been on a self directed IF regimen for 8 months. I still feel

> good and

> have not experienced any obvious problems. Are others in this group

> exploring IF as an alternative to CR as a paradigm for DR?

[Guest guest]

Here are the PubMed links to the articles on IF which I alluded to in

my first post :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=12724520

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=15640462

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=15833943

There is a growing consensus that IF, via alterations in feeding

frequency which are additional to calorie restriction, may offer as

big or perhaps different longevity gains as compared to chronic CR. IF

perhaps more closely mimics the boom and bust feeding regimen of early

humans-- not every hunt was a sucess and so it seems likely that

starvation was the domainant selective pressure that shaped the human

genome for the roughly 200,000 to 300,000 years that preceded the

agricultural revolution. The genetic make-up of modern humans has not

changed significantly since then. The domestication of plants and

animals occurred roughly 10,000 years ago. So, not only has there not

been enough time for the selective pressures of agriculture (the

introduction of cereal grains, dairy products, etc.) to change the

human gene pool, we as a species certainly have not had enough time

for the pressures of the fast food industry (less than ~50 years) to

select for humans with enough random chance metabolic mutations to

survive the current obesigenic environment! Fossil evidence suggests

that the human genome has been changed by both food preparation

(chopping, grinding, soaking, etc.) and cookery (the application of

heat to food). Evidence for the controlled use of fire goes back about

300,000 years. Food prep and cookery likely became part of the human

tool kit after that.

>

>

> > I have been on a self directed IF regimen for 8 months. I still feel

> > good and

> > have not experienced any obvious problems. Are others in this group

> > exploring IF as an alternative to CR as a paradigm for DR?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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