Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Not fair, but some variation on BMI & W/H ratio wouldn't be nuts. I also recall SW airlines getting a world of complaints because they charged some very obese passenger for two seats..... I find it pretty amusing every time I fly how much slack I have to take up in the seatbelt. JR -----Original Message----- From: Mambo Mambo [mailto:mambomambo@...] Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:36 PM Subject: [ ] re. Mc s Hi, I have a solution... Tax people per pound. That way they'd pay for their own hospitalization, increased airfares, etc. And think of the sanitation savings... mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Hm.. I tried to post just a bit ago and it didn't post. First, I hope I didn't offend anyone with my personal signature about intellectual cynics and happy, retarded people. When I send directly from hotmail, it just appears. I wasn't saying anything of our rigorous group. I'm posting from the site now. ANYWAY.. My point was I do not trust the USDA to lead people away from eating less meat since it markets meat, eggs, protein etc. way more than it does fruits and vegetables and I don't think food labeling is completely the answer to get people to make better food choices. In addition, it isn't any easier when the government overpromotes foods we should be eating only in moderation. Of course I believe people need to take personal responsibility for what they eat, but it is also a systemic problem when people in poorer neighborhoods do not have access to nutritious food. That's a public health problem. Morland, K., Wing, S., Roux, A. D., Poole, C. (2002). Neighborhood characteristics associated with the location of food stores and food service places. American Journal of Preventive Medicine. 22(1), 23-29. I'm in school now working towards a career in public health and I write articles about nutrition and politics for the school paper, not just whining. I'd encourage anyone who has an opinion about the USDA to let them know what you think. http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_1OB?navtype=MA & navid=CONTACT_U\ S Peace, I'm not sure what you're saying... While it would be convenient to just disown the actions of " our " government, they only do what " we " allow them to do. I suggest any critical of past gov't actions should get more proactive about making your voice heard. Enough people with the same or similar message will make an impact. Sure government is often manipulated by interest groups, but I consider us a fairly enlightened interest group... Lets do more than whine among ourselves. --- In , " " <crjohnr@b...> wrote: > Not fair, but some variation on BMI & W/H ratio wouldn't be nuts. > > I also recall SW airlines getting a world of complaints because they > charged some very obese passenger for two seats..... > > I find it pretty amusing every time I fly how much slack I have to > take up in the seatbelt. > > JR > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mambo Mambo [mailto:mambomambo@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:36 PM > > Subject: [ ] re. Mc s > > > > Hi, > I have a solution... Tax people per pound. That way they'd pay for their own > hospitalization, increased airfares, etc. And think of the sanitation > savings... > mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Good.. I'm glad to hear you are doing more than whining. I suspect we have different views on what the government should or even could do. I believe we have the wealth to feed everybody better, we (they) apparently already have enough to eat too much. But you can't help those who don't want to be helped so IMO the best effort should go toward labeling which can generate significant market forces and by inference education. Of course, I could be wrong... JR -----Original Message----- From: joelnofziger [mailto:joelnofziger@...] Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 4:17 PM Subject: [ ] Re: re. Mc s Hm.. I tried to post just a bit ago and it didn't post. First, I hope I didn't offend anyone with my personal signature about intellectual cynics and happy, retarded people. When I send directly from hotmail, it just appears. I wasn't saying anything of our rigorous group. I'm posting from the site now. ANYWAY.. My point was I do not trust the USDA to lead people away from eating less meat since it markets meat, eggs, protein etc. way more than it does fruits and vegetables and I don't think food labeling is completely the answer to get people to make better food choices. In addition, it isn't any easier when the government overpromotes foods we should be eating only in moderation. Of course I believe people need to take personal responsibility for what they eat, but it is also a systemic problem when people in poorer neighborhoods do not have access to nutritious food. That's a public health problem. Morland, K., Wing, S., Roux, A. D., Poole, C. (2002). Neighborhood characteristics associated with the location of food stores and food service places. American Journal of Preventive Medicine. 22(1), 23-29. I'm in school now working towards a career in public health and I write articles about nutrition and politics for the school paper, not just whining. I'd encourage anyone who has an opinion about the USDA to let them know what you think. http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_1OB?navtype=MA & navid=CONTACT_U\ S Peace, I'm not sure what you're saying... While it would be convenient to just disown the actions of " our " government, they only do what " we " allow them to do. I suggest any critical of past gov't actions should get more proactive about making your voice heard. Enough people with the same or similar message will make an impact. Sure government is often manipulated by interest groups, but I consider us a fairly enlightened interest group... Lets do more than whine among ourselves. --- In , " " <crjohnr@b...> wrote: > Not fair, but some variation on BMI & W/H ratio wouldn't be nuts. > > I also recall SW airlines getting a world of complaints because they > charged some very obese passenger for two seats..... > > I find it pretty amusing every time I fly how much slack I have to > take up in the seatbelt. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Well, you bring up a point I'd like to comment on, and that is the USDA is not in the nutrition business but the business of growing safe food and doing it economically, and supplying food people can/will grow and eat. We have other agencies that do nutrition, health, medical, eg, and they sometimes aren't connected, and lotsa times they don't agree. But I can't fault the USDA for "growing" the wrong nutritional food. IOW, they try to guard against trichina in pork - not tell people to not eat pork. Guard against known toxins/animal diseases like aflatoxin and BSA, but not to identify ALL the new toxins that might be out there. So usually the disease is identified by the medical, and then the USDA regulates it. But they can't try to eliminate the food animal people eat. Philosophy: If they did, we'd grow it ourselves and bootleg it, and that would worsen the problem. You can't really think we'll do away with BBQ ribs. People have to change. So your comment is right, they WON'T lead people away from ribs, but they did make rules about how they're grown to eliminate trichina. Maybe some agency should make rules to eliminate the tyramines in canned fish, or at least measure it and put it on the can. BTW, there are many articles you could write that wouldn't involve criticizing a gov't agency, rather adding to it's effectiveness by supplying more data. One is the elimination of adding SALT to EVERYTHING. Regards. ---- Original Message ----- From: joelnofziger Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 4:16 PM Subject: [ ] Re: re. Mc s Hm.. I tried to post just a bit ago and it didn't post. First, I hopeI didn't offend anyone with my personal signature about intellectualcynics and happy, retarded people. When I send directly from hotmail,it just appears. I wasn't saying anything of our rigorous group. I'mposting from the site now. ANYWAY..My point was I do not trust the USDA to lead people away from eatingless meat since it markets meat, eggs, protein etc. way more than itdoes fruits and vegetables and I don't think food labeling iscompletely the answer to get people to make better food choices. Inaddition, it isn't any easier when the government overpromotes foodswe should be eating only in moderation.Of course I believe people need to take personal responsibility forwhat they eat, but it is also a systemic problem when people in poorerneighborhoods do not have access to nutritious food. That's a publichealth problem.Morland, K., Wing, S., Roux, A. D., Poole, C. (2002). Neighborhoodcharacteristics associated with the location of food stores and foodservice places. American Journal of Preventive Medicine. 22(1), 23-29.I'm in school now working towards a career in public health and Iwrite articles about nutrition and politics for the school paper, notjust whining. ;)I'd encourage anyone who has an opinion about the USDA to let themknow what you think.http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_1OB?navtype=MA & navid=CONTACT_USPeace, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Hmmm. How to explain this site then? http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_1OB?navid=DIETARY_HEALTH & paren\ tnav=FOOD_NUTRITION & navtype=RT http://tinyurl.com/68ypd You are here: Home / Food and Nutrition / Dietary Health Food and Nutrition Dietary Health USDA develops and promotes dietary guidance and nutritional recommendations aimed at improving the health and well-being of Americans. Dietary Guidelines for Americans The Dietary Guidelines for Americans, jointly issued by USDA and the Department of Health and Human Services, are the cornerstone of Federal nutrition policy and nutrition education activities. Dietary Guidelines Fact Sheet This fact sheet provides detailed information on how Americans can apply the Dietary Guidelines to promote healthy diets. Food Guide Pyramid The Food Guide Pyramid is a nutrition education tool that outlines the kinds and amounts of food to eat each day. It focuses on the five basic food groups and the number of portions people should consume in a day. Food Plans USDA provides nutritious food plans to accommodate thrifty, low-cost, moderate-cost, and liberal budgets. Healthy Eating Index The Healthy Eating Index is a summary measure of overall diet quality. It provides a picture of the types and quantities of food people eat and the degree to which diets comply with the recommendations set forth in the Dietary Guidelines and the Food Guide Pyramid. Dietary Supplements USDA provides information on dietary supplements, including vitamins, minerals, and botanicals. Diet and Human Performance Laboratory USDA analyzes and makes recommendations on how the dietary intake of energy, fiber, and fat promotes life-long maintenance of health and optimizes quality of life. Food Guide Pyramid for Young Children The Food Guide Pyramid for Young Children is an adaptation of the original Food Guide Pyramid designed to simplify educational messages and focus on young children's food preferences and nutritional requirements. Diet and Health Brief USDA examines all aspects of American food choices such as what we eat, where we eat it, why we eat it, what effect these choices have for America's farmers, and what might be the health consequences of those choices. Consumption Brief USDA conducts research to monitor and evaluate food consumption in America from various perspectives. Research analysts examine what we eat, how much we pay for our food, and how our food consumption choices relate to diet quality and nutrition. Team Nutrition To help meet the goal of healthier children, USDA launched Team Nutrition to help make implementation of healthy school meals in schools easier and more successful. National Nutrient Database USDA's online National Nutrient Database is a user friendly, searchable version of the authoritative nutrient database available for download free of charge. > Well, you bring up a point I'd like to comment on, and that is the USDA is not in the nutrition business but the business of growing safe food and doing it economically, and supplying food people can/will grow and eat. We have other agencies that do nutrition, health, medical, eg, and they sometimes aren't connected, and lotsa times they don't agree. But I can't fault the USDA for " growing " the wrong nutritional food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 LAFF. I think that was written by a gov't person who thinks he does that. If I believed that, we wouldn't need an NIH, IOM, CDC, AMA, etc. Where do they get the data? What does the word "analyze" mean, exactly? My experience with USDA is that they make regulations and tell farmers how to raise pigs, eg. As a person who has learned to not eat a lot of animal products, I still can't fault the USDA for promoting SAFE pigs. I would have to attack the multitude of agencies that still promote animal protein in diets. Also looking at the nutritional aspects of meat protein, I don't see how a fast moving society can build high rise buildings without people who eat meat. They simply can't spend all day chewing cud. They have to be big, strong, and lifespan is NOT a criteria. You get a group of scientists/doctors from all over the world to sit down and decide on a good diet and you end up with something like DASH, and it's always a compromise of nutritional, religious, political, et al, societal factors. Theoretically, we can eat just plants but HOW to do it is something else very complicated, and that has not been developed here, yet. It certainly cannot be the responsibility of any one agency, or one gov't, for that matter. The basic issue is a society that can't/wont' change, and if there is one thing a person expecting to reach 100 yo MUST do is accept and adapt to change. In this group we have people who eat the way they want, veggie or not, with one thing in mind - CR. Based on their comments, and my limited experience, I would say CR can be done using any diet, but leaving out any one food group has it's uncertainties. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: kayellr Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 6:24 PM Subject: [ ] Re: re. Mc s Hmmm. How to explain this site then?http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_1OB?navid=DIETARY_HEALTH & parentnav=FOOD_NUTRITION & navtype=RThttp://tinyurl.com/68ypdYou are here: Home / Food and Nutrition / Dietary HealthFood and Nutrition Dietary Health USDA develops and promotes dietary guidance and nutritionalrecommendations aimed at improving the health and well-being of Americans. Dietary Guidelines for AmericansThe Dietary Guidelines for Americans, jointly issued by USDA and theDepartment of Health and Human Services, are the cornerstone ofFederal nutrition policy and nutrition education activities. Dietary Guidelines Fact SheetThis fact sheet provides detailed information on how Americans canapply the Dietary Guidelines to promote healthy diets. Food Guide PyramidThe Food Guide Pyramid is a nutrition education tool that outlines thekinds and amounts of food to eat each day. It focuses on the fivebasic food groups and the number of portions people should consume ina day. Food PlansUSDA provides nutritious food plans to accommodate thrifty, low-cost,moderate-cost, and liberal budgets. Healthy Eating IndexThe Healthy Eating Index is a summary measure of overall diet quality.It provides a picture of the types and quantities of food people eatand the degree to which diets comply with the recommendations setforth in the Dietary Guidelines and the Food Guide Pyramid. Dietary SupplementsUSDA provides information on dietary supplements, including vitamins,minerals, and botanicals. Diet and Human Performance LaboratoryUSDA analyzes and makes recommendations on how the dietary intake ofenergy, fiber, and fat promotes life-long maintenance of health andoptimizes quality of life. Food Guide Pyramid for Young ChildrenThe Food Guide Pyramid for Young Children is an adaptation of theoriginal Food Guide Pyramid designed to simplify educational messagesand focus on young children's food preferences and nutritionalrequirements. Diet and Health BriefUSDA examines all aspects of American food choices such as what weeat, where we eat it, why we eat it, what effect these choices havefor America's farmers, and what might be the health consequences ofthose choices. Consumption BriefUSDA conducts research to monitor and evaluate food consumption inAmerica from various perspectives. Research analysts examine what weeat, how much we pay for our food, and how our food consumptionchoices relate to diet quality and nutrition. Team NutritionTo help meet the goal of healthier children, USDA launched TeamNutrition to help make implementation of healthy school meals inschools easier and more successful. National Nutrient DatabaseUSDA's online National Nutrient Database is a user friendly,searchable version of the authoritative nutrient database availablefor download free of charge.> Well, you bring up a point I'd like to comment on, and that is theUSDA is not in the nutrition business but the business of growing safefood and doing it economically, and supplying food people can/willgrow and eat. We have other agencies that do nutrition, health,medical, eg, and they sometimes aren't connected, and lotsa times theydon't agree. But I can't fault the USDA for "growing" the wrongnutritional food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Well, in fact that is a listing from the USDA website of the programs that they provide/are involved in/are funded for that involve human nutrition, and more specifically - providing nutrition information to US citizens. Whether they always do the best job (especially considering the numerous conflicts of interest) is an entirely different matter. The USDA IS very much in the nutrition business. Data would come from research centers around the country, such as from land grant university programs or research grants partly or wholly funded by USDA, or from dedicated USDA research centers such as the one at Beltsville. Beltsville Human Nutrition Research Center http://www.barc.usda.gov/bhnrc/ Interpretation and presentation of the data - this is where politics and conflicts of interest again rear their ugly heads. Not to mention in the initial stage of which research even receives funding. > LAFF. I think that was written by a gov't person who thinks he does that. > If I believed that, we wouldn't need an NIH, IOM, CDC, AMA, etc. > > Where do they get the data? > What does the word " analyze " mean, exactly? > > Hmmm. How to explain this site then? > http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_1OB?navid=DIETARY_HEALTH & paren\ tnav=FOOD_NUTRITION & navtype=RT > http://tinyurl.com/68ypd > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Sure they are. But is it "proper" to put the blame of supporting meat development, eg, on them? Does the USDA "support" our eating Big Macs by ensuring (testing) beef? Our concern should be how much beef do we need in our diet to optimize our CR program, satisfy individual tastes perhaps, provide the standard nutrients in the USDA database, and add the many others not in the database. So if I wanted to complain, it would be that the database is inadequate - in many ways. The data is not complete in the items it contains. For example, it doesn't always break down the amino acid content for protein foods. It doesn't contain the mercury or tyramine content of fish - those are heath/nutrition issues, but it's not their job to get that info to put into the database. It doesn't contain the taurine content of meats - I think that's pertinent for people who don't make taurine. There's probably other aminos that are deficient in our diet we don't even know about, yet, but it's not their job to FIND them. Since I've been tracking the USDA database, from SR12, I've seen a lot added. The SR17 has been improved a lot. But not near enough for a gov't agency that has the power to collect data from all over the world. If they just added the data from Duke's database, it would probably double the stuff nutritionists need. Another thing that is their job, I think, is to get the things like aflatoxin out of animal feeds, and require labelling on animal foods, just like human foods. We might insist they increase testing for dioxin, organo chemicals, in animal feeds, because some people eat those, and some chemicals may pass in the animal's products to humans as well. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: kayellr Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 12:24 PM Subject: [ ] Re: re. Mc s Well, in fact that is a listing from the USDA website of the programsthat they provide/are involved in/are funded for that involve humannutrition, and more specifically - providing nutrition information toUS citizens. Whether they always do the best job (especiallyconsidering the numerous conflicts of interest) is an entirelydifferent matter. The USDA IS very much in the nutrition business.Data would come from research centers around the country, such as fromland grant university programs or research grants partly or whollyfunded by USDA, or from dedicated USDA research centers such as theone at Beltsville.Beltsville Human Nutrition Research Centerhttp://www.barc.usda.gov/bhnrc/Interpretation and presentation of the data - this is where politicsand conflicts of interest again rear their ugly heads. Not to mentionin the initial stage of which research even receives funding.> LAFF. I think that was written by a gov't person who thinks he doesthat.> If I believed that, we wouldn't need an NIH, IOM, CDC, AMA, etc.> > Where do they get the data? > What does the word "analyze" mean, exactly? > > Hmmm. How to explain this site then?> http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_1OB?navid=DIETARY_HEALTH & parentnav=FOOD_NUTRITION & navtype=RT> http://tinyurl.com/68ypd> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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