Re: Soy (was: Go Easy on the Chili Peppers)

[Guest guest]

Sorry to go silent on this; it would take a bit of digging on my part to find

the relevant

studies, which combined have felt to me like an assault on this beloved bean.

If you are so

inclined, you could search the archives of the mailing lists on

www.calorierestriction.org.

Certainly, the late-life dementia study to which you refer left a big impression

on me. I

stopped soy altogether for a while. But, I missed it's easy, low calorie,

complete protein,

and so now am back to consuming it regularly. I even got a soymilk maker. The

okara left

over from the process makes delicious veggie burgers combined with nutritional

yeast.

-

>

> > Kind of like soy, even in the face of mounting

> > evidence, I keep eating my favorites.

[Guest guest]

A couple articles about soy in general, from relatively

reputable sources. They basically ride the fence, but

better that than outright condemnation:

http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/wl/2002/wlFeatured1102.html

http://www.llu.edu/llu/vegetarian/soy2.html

So, it remains in my CRON arsenal.

Have others on the list similarly been scared away,

at least for a while, only perhaps, like myself, to

return later?

-

>

> > Kind of like soy, even in the face of mounting

> > evidence, I keep eating my favorites.

[Guest guest]

Yes. I cut back on soy after the dementia scare, but like you find it very

versatile and good and now imbibe again. Actually there are probably as

many studies on the benes of soy as the drawbacks. So I don't think it's

clear cut at all. Moderate consumption is my motto. I don't have it daily,

but probably a couple of times a week .

on 4/28/2005 3:59 PM, cronzen at truepatriot@... wrote:

> Have others on the list similarly been scared away,

> at least for a while, only perhaps, like myself, to

> return later?

>

> -

[Guest guest]

I have not been scared away from soy, but I was never a heavy consumer of it. I

use

soy protein in one recipe (mega-muffins). My experiments with other soy foods

has not

been very appetizing so it remains a small fraction of my protein intake.

I have not followed the dementia scares, but did notice some reports that soy

mimics estrogen and I am always respectful of hormones and hormone mimics.

I suspect reduced energy diets and only moderate consumption could be protective

of any problems related to soy, but this is pure speculation.

JR

PS: I also consume plenty of hot pepper (jalapeno, Serrano, habanera,

chipolte....).

Not sure I want to hear bad news about them...

-----Original Message-----

From:

[mailto: ]On Behalf Of cronzen

Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:59 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Soy (was: Go Easy on the Chili Peppers)

A couple articles about soy in general, from relatively

reputable sources. They basically ride the fence, but

better that than outright condemnation:

http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/wl/2002/wlFeatured1102.html

http://www.llu.edu/llu/vegetarian/soy2.html

So, it remains in my CRON arsenal.

Have others on the list similarly been scared away,

at least for a while, only perhaps, like myself, to

return later?

-

>

> > Kind of like soy, even in the face of mounting

> > evidence, I keep eating my favorites.

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

I guess my approach to soy is this. Do we have good reason to

suppose it contains important nutrients we cannot get enough of from

other easy-to-obtain sources? If we can get all we need of these

nutrients from sources which have no known drawbacks, why not get

those nutrients from those sources rather than run a possible risk

with soy?

Also, for those determined to use soy products - I use some

occasionally - perhaps it is better to avoid the products in which

the fat content tends to be concentrated - tofu as an example - and

instead use the protein, or perhaps okara, instead. I wish I knew a

source for okara.

Are there arguments suggesting the above is not a good approach?

Rodney.

>

> > Have others on the list similarly been scared away,

> > at least for a while, only perhaps, like myself, to

> > return later?

> >

> > -

[Guest guest]

> Hi folks:

>

> I guess my approach to soy is this. Do we have good reason to

> suppose it contains important nutrients we cannot get enough of from

> other easy-to-obtain sources? If we can get all we need of these

> nutrients from sources which have no known drawbacks, why not get

> those nutrients from those sources rather than run a possible risk

> with soy?

>

> Also, for those determined to use soy products - I use some

> occasionally - perhaps it is better to avoid the products in which

> the fat content tends to be concentrated - tofu as an example - and

> instead use the protein, or perhaps okara, instead. I wish I knew a

> source for okara.

>

> Are there arguments suggesting the above is not a good approach?

>

> Rodney.

>

It's a good approach that makes perfect sense, Rodney. Except in my

case I eat soy not so much for its unique nutrients as for the flavor

& texture it adds to certain dishes. I occasionally buy a soy product

called " Smart Ground " that's the consistency of crumbled ground beef,

and I enjoy it added to my egg-white omelets, or in a nice tacoesque

salad with a little hot salsa and lots of veggies. I'm not sure what

would comprise a tasty substitute other than ground beef itself, which

in this case seems to be the worser of two evils. A 55g serving of the

soy stuff I use has 1 g of fat and 11 g protein and 3 g fiber, so

maybe it's not too bad. But this discussion makes me think twice about

using it more than a couple of times a week.

-Liz

[Guest guest]

My source for okara is my soymilk maker.

I have taken to combining it with nutritional yeast, rolling into balls,

and pressing out on a greased cookie sheet, where they then bake for 10

minutes each side at 425 F, making delicious " meatballs " for my spaghetti

(squash).

I am also a big fan of soynuts. It is hard to find something providing

the same levels of protein and crunch with so little fat.

-

> Hi folks:

>

> I guess my approach to soy is this. Do we have good reason to

> suppose it contains important nutrients we cannot get enough of from

> other easy-to-obtain sources? If we can get all we need of these

> nutrients from sources which have no known drawbacks, why not get

> those nutrients from those sources rather than run a possible risk

> with soy?

>

> Also, for those determined to use soy products - I use some

> occasionally - perhaps it is better to avoid the products in which

> the fat content tends to be concentrated - tofu as an example - and

> instead use the protein, or perhaps okara, instead. I wish I knew a

> source for okara.

>

> Are there arguments suggesting the above is not a good approach?

>

> Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Hi :

Could you tell us your source of low-fat soy nuts, please? For those

I am aware of the fat calories represent about 50% of total. ty.

Rodney.

--- In , " cronzen " <truepatriot@m...>

wrote:

> My source for okara is my soymilk maker.

>

> I have taken to combining it with nutritional yeast, rolling into

balls,

> and pressing out on a greased cookie sheet, where they then bake

for 10

> minutes each side at 425 F, making delicious " meatballs " for my

spaghetti

> (squash).

>

> I am also a big fan of soynuts. It is hard to find something

providing

> the same levels of protein and crunch with so little fat.

>

>

> -

>

> --- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...>

wrote:

> > Hi folks:

> >

> > I guess my approach to soy is this. Do we have good reason to

> > suppose it contains important nutrients we cannot get enough of

from

> > other easy-to-obtain sources? If we can get all we need of

these

> > nutrients from sources which have no known drawbacks, why not get

> > those nutrients from those sources rather than run a possible

risk

> > with soy?

> >

> > Also, for those determined to use soy products - I use some

> > occasionally - perhaps it is better to avoid the products in

which

> > the fat content tends to be concentrated - tofu as an example -

and

> > instead use the protein, or perhaps okara, instead. I wish I

knew a

> > source for okara.

> >

> > Are there arguments suggesting the above is not a good approach?

> >

> > Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Looking at the nutrition information on my bag of soy nuts ('s No Salt

Added),

I realize I may have misspoke. Fat calories do indeed represent almost half the

total

calories. I guess when I think of fat, I usually only register the saturated

fat.

Here is that label:

Serving: 1 oz (28 g)

Calories: 150

Total Fat: 7 g

Sat. Fat: 1 g

Cholesterol: 0 mg

Sodium: 0 mg

Total Carb: 8 g

Fiber: 6 g

Sugars: 2 g

Protein: 14 g

Vit A: 0%

Vit C: 0%

Calcium: 6%

Iron: 8%

> > > Hi folks:

> > >

> > > I guess my approach to soy is this. Do we have good reason to

> > > suppose it contains important nutrients we cannot get enough of

> from

> > > other easy-to-obtain sources? If we can get all we need of

> these

> > > nutrients from sources which have no known drawbacks, why not get

> > > those nutrients from those sources rather than run a possible

> risk

> > > with soy?

> > >

> > > Also, for those determined to use soy products - I use some

> > > occasionally - perhaps it is better to avoid the products in

> which

> > > the fat content tends to be concentrated - tofu as an example -

> and

> > > instead use the protein, or perhaps okara, instead. I wish I

> knew a

> > > source for okara.

> > >

> > > Are there arguments suggesting the above is not a good approach?

> > >

> > > Rodney.

[Guest guest]

Hi :

Yep, just the straight soybeans generally are 40% to 50% fat

calories. Then if you roast them in oil that can raise the

percentage. Or if you process them in a way that preferentially

selects the fat, and leaves the other stuff, as in tofu, the fat

percentage can get up into the 60s percent. Then if you deep fry the

tofu, as the orientals occasionally do ................. .

Difficult to eat a low fat diet if you eat too much stuff that is

60%.

But it isn't the worst type of fat.

Rodney.

> > > > Hi folks:

> > > >

> > > > I guess my approach to soy is this. Do we have good reason

to

> > > > suppose it contains important nutrients we cannot get enough

of

> > from

> > > > other easy-to-obtain sources? If we can get all we need of

> > these

> > > > nutrients from sources which have no known drawbacks, why not

get

> > > > those nutrients from those sources rather than run a possible

> > risk

> > > > with soy?

> > > >

> > > > Also, for those determined to use soy products - I use some

> > > > occasionally - perhaps it is better to avoid the products in

> > which

> > > > the fat content tends to be concentrated - tofu as an

example -

> > and

> > > > instead use the protein, or perhaps okara, instead. I wish I

> > knew a

> > > > source for okara.

> > > >

> > > > Are there arguments suggesting the above is not a good

approach?

> > > >

> > > > Rodney.

[Guest guest]

below:

----- Original Message -----

From: " Francesca Skelton " <fskelton@...>

< >

Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:04 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Soy (was: Go Easy on the Chili Peppers)

> Yes. I cut back on soy after the dementia scare, but like you find it

> very

> versatile and good and now imbibe again. Actually there are probably as

> many studies on the benes of soy as the drawbacks. So I don't think it's

> clear cut at all. Moderate consumption is my motto. I don't have it

> daily,

> but probably a couple of times a week .

>

>

> >

> I was concerned about soy for a while, too, especially since I can no

> longer use statins, and the Toronto University Portfolio Diet (reduces ldl

> by about 30% according to their studies) uses 25 grams of soy protein per

> 1000 calories, among other things. I take comfort in the realization

> that Dr. Suzuki and the Drs. Willcox of the Okinawa longevity study state

> that the elder Okinawans have been the cohort of people using the most

> soy in the world. We all know the longevity records of the Okinawans, at

> least, those born a few years before WWII. According to this source,

> Okinawan elders are less trouble by memory deterioration and the other

> symptoms we all fear than other groups.

I wonder if those persons in the Hawaii study replaced fish with tofu so

that their intake of EPA/DHA dropped too low?

Anyway, I eat as much soy as I want, now. Well, as much as I want as a

share of 1500 - 2000 kc per day. I do feel slower when I cut out animal

protein completely, which for me is mostly fish. I am lethargic physically

and mentally if I eat only soy and other plant proteins.

ED S >

>

>