Re: Re: Response re Flaxseed

[Guest guest]

one point is the better n-3/n-6 ratio of grass fed vs. grain fed animals. I

doubt our ancestors got to eat many grain fed animals.

JR

-----Original Message-----

From:

[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Rodney

Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 2:55 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Response re Flaxseed

Hi folks:

So, then, what is it that our ancestors are supposed to have eaten

that contained so much more omega-3 and so much less omega-6 than we

are eating today, and that resulted in a 1:1 ratio?

Or was it simply that there were few concentrated sources of any kind

of fat in the diet? Nuts are seasonal. Fish not avilable to the

majority who did not live on the coast. Elephant was among the menu

suggestions infrequently. And wild animals contain much less fat

than the domesticated ones.

Would most of us consider the components of that 1:1 diet healthy?

Rodney.

[Guest guest]

One PCa Dr (snuffy myers) who has PCa, thinks we don't get EPA from ALA.

The assumption that ALL humans convert ALA to EPA is suspect, IMO.

And soybean oil is used so abundantly in the U.S. one has to wonder how anyone would be short of LA or ALA.

Per Tony's idea of controlling lipids, I use 0.5 oz of sunflower oil on salads since I can't get high LA safflower oil here.

But I'm a low TC person anyway. My wife and I have experimented with all kinds of oils, and zocor and now zetia/zocor are the best for her. Brought her TC down below mine and conserved HDL. Am I'm saying that because I think it's a medical problem, not a nutrition consideration.

I believe that CR controls a lot of her high TC (327 down to 229, but that may be due to just weight loss from 185 to 145.

The Harvard women's study put EFA's LA and ALA at 12, 1.1 gms. Perhaps the IOM is a better ref: 17,1.6 and 12,1.1 for men and women, resp.

Soybean oil always seemed like an obvious choice for least calories, but with sunflower, I eat a few walnuts.

Lack of LA will produce obvious symptoms. Perhaps The Flax council could elaborate on the symptoms of low ALA?

Ground flax, BTW, has been cited as OK for PCa, I guess due to other chemicals in it.

But I don't recall a ref that pushed it as a preventative for cancer, either.

You could check Medline. I think we covered the ALA req't in detail, maybe 8 months ago.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gay e

Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 11:46 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Response re Flaxseed

Hi JWI wasn't saying that I took on board everything they wrote. I was hoping for comments on the statement, such as you made.I have to say the my cholesterol figures have done well since I started using ground flax. I was already using a small amount of fish oil.I have no difficulty getting adequate LN in my diet but which foods do you get your ALA (as opposed to EPA/DHA) from?My main interest in this, from some-one that doesn't like fish much and therefore will take supplements, is whether by taking fish oil supplements ONLY, I may be missing something by not taking flaxseed.Having said that, I prefer a belt and braces approach and would take both until proved pointless.Of course, I may need to rethink if the calorie content becomes overly relevant in my diet or I am able to get closer to optimal nutrition. At the moment I am taking a slow approach to improving my diet to one I can live with long term and addressing a number of health issues.As regards hypertension, we discuss general health and diet issues on the board and flaxseed is of interest for this reason. I do believe many are short of Omega-3 regardless of which health isuue we are discussing.Regards, Gay> Something mixed here, LA C18:2n-6, is a true essential fatty acid. > We have questioned ALA before because of the Prostate cancer link.> The one thing I looked for is what function does ALA have if we ingest EPA/DHA and I didn't find such. This article doesn't say what either.> Besides that we get plenty of ALA, LA in diet.> I haven't found ANY oil/fatty acid to benefit HTN - simply no pathways known to do that. Show me some data on either issue, not an opinion from the flax council.> > Regards.

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

That is what the abstract said, Rodney. But, from the text that is

pdf-available is

the below.

" Linoleic acid (LA; 18:2n–6) is the most abundant n–6 fatty acid in the human

diet,

and it is found primarily in vegetable oils. Long-chain n–6 fatty acids enhance

prostate tumor cell growth in human prostate tumor-derived cell lines (6).

Several biological mechanisms have been proposed to explain these observations.

Among the most salient of these mechanisms is the inhibition of eicosanoid

biosynthesis by arachidonic acid (AA; 20:4n–6), an n–6 fatty acid derived from

LA by

the action of cyclooxygenase-2 (5). AA-derived eicosanoids, such as

prostaglandin

E2, strongly stimulate prostate tumor growth in animal models or prostate

tumor-derived cell lines (7-9). In contrast, EPA and DHA inhibit

cyclooxygenase-2

and the formation of prostaglandin E2 from AA (5).

--- Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote:

>

> Al Pater's post # 19379

> Here is an excerpt from the study's abstract: " LA and AA intakes were

unrelated

to the risk of

> prostate cancer. "

Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...

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[Guest guest]

"CONCLUSIONS: Increased dietary intakes of ALA may increase the risk of advanced prostate cancer. In contrast, EPA and DHA intakes may reduce the risk of total and advanced prostate cancer. PMID: 15213050"

What is ref (6)?

regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Al Pater

Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 4:02 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Response re Flaxseed

Hi All,That is what the abstract said, Rodney. But, from the text that is pdf-available isthe below."Linoleic acid (LA; 18:2n–6) is the most abundant n–6 fatty acid in the human diet,and it is found primarily in vegetable oils. Long-chain n–6 fatty acids enhanceprostate tumor cell growth in human prostate tumor-derived cell lines (6). Several biological mechanisms have been proposed to explain these observations.Among the most salient of these mechanisms is the inhibition {EPA} of eicosanoidbiosynthesis by arachidonic acid (AA; 20:4n–6), an n–6 fatty acid derived from LA bythe action of cyclooxygenase-2 (5). AA-derived eicosanoids, such as prostaglandinE2, strongly stimulate prostate tumor growth in animal models or prostatetumor-derived cell lines (7-9). In contrast, EPA and DHA inhibit cyclooxygenase-2and the formation of prostaglandin E2 from AA (5). --- Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote:> > Al Pater's post # 19379 > Here is an excerpt from the study's abstract: "LA and AA intakes were unrelatedto the risk of > prostate cancer."Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@... ____________________________________________________ Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=9430390 & query_hl=1

would certainly say " Yes. " All-cause death is the paramount parameter.

--- Rodney <perspect1111@...> wrote:

> Hi folks:

>

> And do we know pretty much for sure that ALA is more beneficial for

> CVD than linoleic?

Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...

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[Guest guest]

Hi All,

Connolly JM, M, Rose DP. Effects of dietary fatty acids on DU145 human

prostate cancer cell growth in athymic nude mice. Nutr Cancer

1997;29:114–9.[Medline]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstra\

ct & list_uids=9427973 & query_hl=3

--- jwwright <jwwright@...> wrote:

> " CONCLUSIONS: Increased dietary intakes of ALA may increase the risk of

advanced

> prostate cancer. In contrast, EPA and DHA intakes may reduce the risk of total

and

> advanced prostate cancer. PMID: 15213050 "

>

> What is ref (6)?

>

> regards.

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Al Pater

>

> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 4:02 PM

> Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Response re Flaxseed

>

>

> Hi All,

>

> That is what the abstract said, Rodney. But, from the text that is

> pdf-available is

> the below.

>

> " Linoleic acid (LA; 18:2n-6) is the most abundant n-6 fatty acid in the

human

> diet,

> and it is found primarily in vegetable oils. Long-chain n-6 fatty acids

enhance

> prostate tumor cell growth in human prostate tumor-derived cell lines (6).

Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...

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[Guest guest]

So it favors menhaden oil in exp 1

and not a high fat intake of n-6 in exp 2.

The other article reported excess AA creation in parenteral admin of N-6, used to avoid EFAD.

Regards.

Effects of dietary fatty acids on DU145 human prostate cancer cell growth in athymic nude mice.Connolly JM, M, Rose DP.The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of diets containing different unsaturated fatty acids (FAs) on DU145 human prostate cancer cell growth in nude mice. In Experiment 1, groups of 25 mice were fed 23% (wt/wt) fat diets containing 18% corn oil (CO)-5% linseed oil (18:2n-6 FA-rich), 18% linseed oil (LO)-5% CO (18:3n-3 FA-rich), or 18% menhaden oil (MO)-5% CO (20:5 and 22:6n-3 FA-rich), and seven days later they were injected subcutaneously with 1 x 10(6) DU145 cells. The diets were continued for six weeks. The growth rates and final weights of tumors from the 18% CO-5% LO and 18% LO-5% CO mice were similar; there was a 30% reduction in tumor growth in the 18% MO-5% CO group (p < 0.001). The tumor phospholipid FA patterns suggested that the inhibitory effect of the high-MO diet was due, at least in part, to a reduction of arachidonic acid available for prostaglandin biosynthesis. In Experiment 2, groups of 25 mice were injected with 5 x 10(5) or 1 x 10(6) DU145 cells directly into the prostate gland and fed a high-fat linoleic acid (n-6 FA)-rich or a low-fat diet for 10 weeks. At necropsy, macroscopic cancers and microscopic intraprostatic tumors were evaluated. When the initial tumor load was 1 x 10(6) cells, all but 7 of the 50 mice had developed large macroscopic tumors; the mean tumor weight in the high-fat group was twice that in the low-fat group (p = 0.047). A stimulatory effect of dietary n-6 FA on DU145 prostate cancer cell growth may require a critical initial tumor cell mass.PMID: 9427973

----- Original Message -----

From: Al Pater

Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 4:54 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Response re Flaxseed

Hi All,Connolly JM, M, Rose DP. Effects of dietary fatty acids on DU145 humanprostate cancer cell growth in athymic nude mice. Nutr Cancer1997;29:114–9.[Medline]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=9427973 & query_hl=3--- jwwright <jwwright@...> wrote:> "CONCLUSIONS: Increased dietary intakes of ALA may increase the risk of advanced> prostate cancer. In contrast, EPA and DHA intakes may reduce the risk of total and> advanced prostate cancer. PMID: 15213050"> > What is ref (6)?> > regards.

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

Yes, where menhaden = An American marine fish of the Herring family (Brevoortia

tyrannus), chiefly valuable for its oil.

--- jwwright <jwwright@...> wrote:

> So it favors menhaden oil in exp 1

> and not a high fat intake of n-6 in exp 2.

> The other article reported excess AA creation in parenteral admin of N-6, used

to

> avoid EFAD.

>

> Regards.

>

>

> Effects of dietary fatty acids on DU145 human prostate cancer cell growth in

> athymic nude mice.

> Connolly JM, M, Rose DP.

> PMID: 9427973

Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@...

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