Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Hi Tony: Am I understanding this right? " The scientists were asking, What would be an obese person's risk of dying if weight was reduced to the normal range but no other changes were made? Any existing conditions like diabetes or high blood pressure would remain constant ................. " SO THEY ASSUMED THAT THE DISEASES OVERWEIGHT PEOPLE GET - LIKE DIABETES, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, HEART DISEASE, CANCER - THEY WILL STILL GET IF THEY DROP TO APPROPRIATE WEIGHT????? Surely they cannot be serious? Does anyone have a link to the full study the CDC did? This LOOKS LIKE another huge joke. I see that in addition to declaring any conflicting commercial interests the authors of these studies have, they are also gonna have to disclose other conflicts of interest - LIKE THEIR BMIs. Rodney. > I just received the latest issue of the AARP bulletin with a bloated > Mona on the cover and a story about " A new study shows that being > pleasantly plump may actually be good for you. " > > http://www.aarp.org/bulletin/ > > The article is based on the JAMA publication by statisticians from the > CDC and NCI who concluded that overweight people actually have a lower > risk of death than people whose weight is in the normal range. We > discussed this before under headings like " Fit vs. Fat " . With this > article in a widely read publication, fewer people will have > incentives to try to slim down. > > Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 I saw a " retraction " of this on the news last week. They claimed that being overweight was NOT as healthy as being thin/fit as previously stated and that people should lose weight and maintain a healthy BMI Just to confuse the public again................ So those that don't want to go to the trouble of losing weight can always point to whichever study suits them. on 6/7/2005 9:48 AM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote: > Hi Tony: > > Am I understanding this right? > > " The scientists were asking, What would be an obese person's risk of > dying if weight was reduced to the normal range but no other changes > were made? Any existing conditions like diabetes or high blood > pressure would remain constant ................. " > > SO THEY ASSUMED THAT THE DISEASES OVERWEIGHT PEOPLE GET - LIKE > DIABETES, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, HEART DISEASE, CANCER - THEY WILL > STILL GET IF THEY DROP TO APPROPRIATE WEIGHT????? > > Surely they cannot be serious? > > Does anyone have a link to the full study the CDC did? > > This LOOKS LIKE another huge joke. > > I see that in addition to declaring any conflicting commercial > interests the authors of these studies have, they are also gonna have > to disclose other conflicts of interest - LIKE THEIR BMIs. > > Rodney. > > > > > > > > >> I just received the latest issue of the AARP bulletin with a bloated >> Mona on the cover and a story about " A new study shows that > being >> pleasantly plump may actually be good for you. " >> >> http://www.aarp.org/bulletin/ >> >> The article is based on the JAMA publication by statisticians from > the >> CDC and NCI who concluded that overweight people actually have a > lower >> risk of death than people whose weight is in the normal range. We >> discussed this before under headings like " Fit vs. Fat " . With this >> article in a widely read publication, fewer people will have >> incentives to try to slim down. >> >> Tony > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Rodney, As Francesca pointed out, there has been some backstepping on the conclusion that overweight people live longer. The paper appeared in the April 20 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, co-authored by M. Flegal, Ph.D., of the CDC. Here is an explanation by the study's author about the methodology: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/pubs/pubd/hestats/excess_deaths/excess_deaths.h\ tm Here is some of the shocked reaction to the original paper by various luminaries: http://www.medpagetoday.com/tbindex.cfm?tbid=1125 & topicid=51 Regardless of whether there are any further retractions or not, the general public will focus on the bottom line: A scientific study published in a prestigious peer-reviewed publication said that overweight people live longer. Too bad for us thin CRONers. Tony > > I just received the latest issue of the AARP bulletin with a bloated > > Mona on the cover and a story about " A new study shows that > being > > pleasantly plump may actually be good for you. " > > > > http://www.aarp.org/bulletin/ > > > > The article is based on the JAMA publication by statisticians from > the > > CDC and NCI who concluded that overweight people actually have a > lower > > risk of death than people whose weight is in the normal range. We > > discussed this before under headings like " Fit vs. Fat " . With this > > article in a widely read publication, fewer people will have > > incentives to try to slim down. > > > > Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Hi All, The CDC study in JAMA is here: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/293/15/1861 I am skeptical of this result for two reasons. One is scientific and one political. The scientific reason is that, in rodent studies, the longest-lived animals tend to be those that are genetically obese, but CRed so that they have normal weight. Genetically-determined obesity is not nearly as detrimental to health as is overeating. Actually, it may be that the optimal combination is to have genes for obesity, but to eat fewer calories. In other words, the CDC study measures absolute body weight when the salient variable is body weight relative to ad lib weight. The second reason is political. There has been so much politicization of science in governments that we may not trust the CDC to not be tainted by what the food industry wishs to hear. --- citpeks <citpeks@...> wrote: > Rodney, > > As Francesca pointed out, there has been some backstepping on the > conclusion that overweight people live longer. The paper appeared in > the April 20 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, > co-authored by M. Flegal, Ph.D., of the CDC. Here is an > explanation by the study's author about the methodology: > > http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/pubs/pubd/hestats/excess_deaths/excess_deaths.h\ tm > > Here is some of the shocked reaction to the original paper by various > luminaries: > > http://www.medpagetoday.com/tbindex.cfm?tbid=1125 & topicid=51 > > Regardless of whether there are any further retractions or not, the > general public will focus on the bottom line: A scientific study > published in a prestigious peer-reviewed publication said that > overweight people live longer. > > Too bad for us thin CRONers. > > Tony > > > > > I just received the latest issue of the AARP bulletin with a bloated > > > Mona on the cover and a story about " A new study shows that > > being > > > pleasantly plump may actually be good for you. " > > > > > > http://www.aarp.org/bulletin/ > > > > > > The article is based on the JAMA publication by statisticians from > > the > > > CDC and NCI who concluded that overweight people actually have a > > lower > > > risk of death than people whose weight is in the normal range. We > > > discussed this before under headings like " Fit vs. Fat " . With this > > > article in a widely read publication, fewer people will have > > > incentives to try to slim down. > > > > > > Tony > > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@... __________________________________ Mobile Take with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile./learn/mail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 Intentional weight loss reduces mortality rate in a rodent model of dietary obesity. Vasselli JR, Weindruch R, Heymsfield SB, Pi-Sunyer FX, Boozer CN, Yi N, Wang C, Pietrobelli A, DB. New York Obesity Research Center, Columbia University, New York, NY, USA. OBJECTIVE: We used a rodent model of dietary obesity to evaluate effects of caloric restriction-induced weight loss on mortality rate. Research Measures and Procedures: In a randomized parallel-groups design, 312 outbred Sprague-Dawley rats (one-half males) were assigned at age 10 weeks to one of three diets: low fat (LF; 18.7% calories as fat) with caloric intake adjusted to maintain body weight 10% below that for ad libitum (AL)-fed rat food, high fat (HF; 45% calories as fat) fed at the same level, or HF fed AL. At age 46 weeks, the lightest one-third of the AL group was discarded to ensure a more obese group; the remaining animals were randomly assigned to one of three diets: HF-AL, HF with energy restricted to produce body weights of animals restricted on the HF diet throughout life, or LF with energy restricted to produce the body weights of animals restricted on the LF diet throughout life. Life span, body weight, and leptin levels were measured. RESULTS: Animals restricted throughout life lived the longest (p < 0.001). Life span was not different among animals that had been obese and then lost weight and animals that had been nonobese throughout life (p = 0.18). Animals that were obese and lost weight lived substantially longer than animals that remained obese throughout life (p = 0.002). Diet composition had no effect on life span (p = 0.52). DISCUSSION: Weight loss after the onset of obesity during adulthood leads to a substantial increase in longevity in rats. PMID: 15897478 > > > Hi Tony: > > > > > > Am I understanding this right? > > > > > > " The scientists were asking, What would be an obese person's risk of > > > dying if weight was reduced to the normal range but no other changes > > > were made? Any existing conditions like diabetes or high blood > > > pressure would remain constant ................. " > > > > > > SO THEY ASSUMED THAT THE DISEASES OVERWEIGHT PEOPLE GET - LIKE > > > DIABETES, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, HEART DISEASE, CANCER - THEY WILL > > > STILL GET IF THEY DROP TO APPROPRIATE WEIGHT????? > > > > > > Surely they cannot be serious? > > > > > > Does anyone have a link to the full study the CDC did? > > > > > > This LOOKS LIKE another huge joke. > > > > > > I see that in addition to declaring any conflicting commercial > > > interests the authors of these studies have, they are also gonna have > > > to disclose other conflicts of interest - LIKE THEIR BMIs. > > > > > > Rodney. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , " citpeks " <citpeks@y...> wrote: > > > > I just received the latest issue of the AARP bulletin with a bloated > > > > Mona on the cover and a story about " A new study shows that > > > being > > > > pleasantly plump may actually be good for you. " > > > > > > > > http://www.aarp.org/bulletin/ > > > > > > > > The article is based on the JAMA publication by statisticians from > > > the > > > > CDC and NCI who concluded that overweight people actually have a > > > lower > > > > risk of death than people whose weight is in the normal range. We > > > > discussed this before under headings like " Fit vs. Fat " . With this > > > > article in a widely read publication, fewer people will have > > > > incentives to try to slim down. > > > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@y... > > > > __________________________________ > Mobile > Take with you! Check email on your mobile phone. > http://mobile./learn/mail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 Hi : Good one. Thank you. I have added it to the file of CR studies. Here is another one I have also added to the file that I had not seen before, dated 31 May 2005, from Partridge: " Dietary restriction in Drosophila. Partridge L, Piper MD, Mair W. UCL Centre for Research on Ageing, Department of Biology, University College London, Darwin Building, Gower Street, London WC1E 6BT, UK. The fruit fly Drosophila is a useful organism for the investigation of the mechanisms by which dietary restriction (DR) extends lifespan. Its relatively short generation time, well-characterised molecular biology, genetics and physiology and ease of handling for demographic analysis are all major strengths. Lifespan has been extended by DR applied to adult Drosophila, by restriction of the availability of live yeast or by co-ordinate dilution of the whole food medium. Lifespan increases to a maximum through DR with a progressive dilution of the food and then decreases through starvation as the food is diluted further. Daily and lifetime fecundities of females are reduced by food dilution throughout the DR and starvation range. Standard Drosophila food ingredients differ greatly between laboratories and fly stocks can differ in their responses to food dilution, and a full range of food concentrations should therefore be investigated when examining the response to DR. Flies do not alter the time that they spend feeding in response to DR. Both mean and maximum lifespan are extended by DR. The nutrients critical for the response to DR in Drosophila require definition. The extension of lifespan in response to DR is very much greater in females than in males. Two nutrient-sensing pathways, the insulin/IGF-like and TOR pathways, have been implicated in mediating this response of lifespan to DR in Drosophila, as have two protein deacetylases, dSir2 and Rpd3, although the precise nature of this interaction remain to be characterised. Although female fecundity is reduced by DR, the response of lifespan to DR appears normal in sterile females, possibly implying that reduced fecundity is not necessary for extension of lifespan by DR. There is no reduction in metabolic rate or in the rate of generation of superoxide and hydrogen peroxide from isolated mitochondria in response to DR. DR acts acutely and rapidly (within 48h) to reduce the mortality of flies that are fully fed to the level found in animals exposed to DR throughout life. This rapid mortality rate recovery provides a powerful framework within which to further investigate the mechanisms by which DR extends lifespan. PMID: 15935441 " Rodney. > Intentional weight loss reduces mortality rate in a rodent model of > dietary obesity. > > Vasselli JR, Weindruch R, Heymsfield SB, Pi-Sunyer FX, Boozer CN, Yi > N, Wang C, Pietrobelli A, DB. > > New York Obesity Research Center, Columbia University, New York, NY, USA. > > OBJECTIVE: We used a rodent model of dietary obesity to evaluate > effects of caloric restriction-induced weight loss on mortality rate. > Research Measures and Procedures: In a randomized parallel-groups > design, 312 outbred Sprague-Dawley rats (one-half males) were assigned > at age 10 weeks to one of three diets: low fat (LF; 18.7% calories as > fat) with caloric intake adjusted to maintain body weight 10% below > that for ad libitum (AL)-fed rat food, high fat (HF; 45% calories as > fat) fed at the same level, or HF fed AL. At age 46 weeks, the > lightest one-third of the AL group was discarded to ensure a more > obese group; the remaining animals were randomly assigned to one of > three diets: HF-AL, HF with energy restricted to produce body weights > of animals restricted on the HF diet throughout life, or LF with > energy restricted to produce the body weights of animals restricted on > the LF diet throughout life. Life span, body weight, and leptin levels > were measured. RESULTS: Animals restricted throughout life lived the > longest (p < 0.001). Life span was not different among animals that > had been obese and then lost weight and animals that had been nonobese > throughout life (p = 0.18). Animals that were obese and lost weight > lived substantially longer than animals that remained obese throughout > life (p = 0.002). Diet composition had no effect on life span (p = > 0.52). DISCUSSION: Weight loss after the onset of obesity during > adulthood leads to a substantial increase in longevity in rats. > PMID: 15897478 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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