Re: Newbie on Coconut oil and Chocolate

[Guest guest]

Connie,

This is what the Institute of Medicine (IOM) has to say about

saturated fat:

http://www.iom.edu/report.asp?id=4340

" The report doesn't set maximum levels for saturated fat, cholesterol,

or trans fatty acids, as increased risk exists at levels above zero,

however the recommendation is to eat as little as possible while

consuming a diet adequate in important other essential nutrients "

What the IOM doesn't say is that even if your diet has zero saturated

fat your body will make it from carbohydrates (de novo synthesis of

fatty acids). The most reasonable thing to do is keep your saturated

fats low, check your cholesterol level, and if it is elevated increase

your soluble fiber and linoleic acid (omega-6) while cutting back on

saturated fats. From the Hegsted equation it seems that a diet that

has 10% saturated fat and 20% omega-6 should result in normal blood

cholesterol levels, but as far as I can determine, it is a trial and

error process.

Tony

> Hi,

>

> I have been including small amounts of coconut milk and dark

chocolate

> in my diet for some time now. Based on what I've read, I thought

that

> even though they contain saturated fat, they would not effect my

> cholesterol adversely. However, I am wondering whether that

> information is accurate.

>

> I couldn't find any past posts regarding this subject. Also, what

> percent of lipids should be saturated? And does that include all

> saturated fats?

>

> Connie

[Guest guest]

Tony, do you mean 10% (saturated) and 20% (omega 6) of all fat, or of

all calories? If " of all fat " , is the rest to be omega 3?

> From the Hegsted equation it seems that a diet that

> has 10% saturated fat and 20% omega-6 should result in normal blood

> cholesterol levels, but as far as I can determine, it is a trial and

> error process.

>

> Tony

[Guest guest]

Hi Connie:

Coconut milk? Well what can I say? It depends on what you believe.

Nutrition is far from a finally defined science so may be you are

right.

Then, on the other hand, perhaps you are not.

For my part, the two 'foods' I avoid like the plague are vegetable

shortening and coconut.

Some people think that fats in general are bad and saturated fats

especially are very bad. For those who believe that, I cannot

imagine eating ANY coconut milk. No less than 97.3 percent of its

calories are derived from fat, and 88.7% of this fat is saturated.

I suppose some would argue that not all saturated fats are

dangerous. But why would anyone take the risk of eating anything

so totally loaded with saturated fat? Are there not other foods you

could substitute for this stuff?

The only arguments I have seen here (yes I am not joking about this)

in favor of coconut products is that if you are on a desert island

with IV equipment and need to use it but do not have the liqid you

need for it, then you can safely substitute the liquid from coconuts.

So, if you live on a desert island, need to be fed by IV and are

unable to locate the stuff you need then perhaps there may be a

reason to use it. Otherwise I wouldn't touch the stuff with a

hundred foot pole.

But we all make our own decisions here. Perhaps there is some

magical ingredient in coconut that science has yet to discover that

has miraculous properties. My choice is to wait until science

provides us with enough serious evidence to justify believing it.

Empirical evidence derived from feeding plenty of coconut milk to

humans, or to animals that also suffer cardiovascular disease, and

then checking their arteries, would be the kind of evidence that I

would find helpful. As far as I know it hasn't been done.

Rodney.

> Hi,

>

> I have been including small amounts of coconut milk and dark

chocolate

> in my diet for some time now. Based on what I've read, I thought

that

> even though they contain saturated fat, they would not effect my

> cholesterol adversely. However, I am wondering whether that

> information is accurate.

>

> I couldn't find any past posts regarding this subject. Also, what

> percent of lipids should be saturated? And does that include all

> saturated fats?

>

> Connie

[Guest guest]

,

The percentages are for the fat composition. Assuming a Zone-type

diet (30%P, 30%F, and 40%C), the 30% calories from fat might have a

composition like:

10% saturated (myristic, palmitic)

60% monounsaturated

20% omega-6

5% omega-3 (to get a 4:1 ratio of omega-6 to omega-3)

5% other (stearic, DHA, etc.)

Compare this to Olive oil:

13% saturated (palmitic)

71% monounsaturated

10% omega-6

1% omega-3

5% other (3% stearic, etc)

Although stearic acid (C18:0) is a saturated fat, it does not

influence cholesterol levels substantially. This is why I put it

under " other " .

Olive oil diets tend to increase cholesterol because there is not

enough omega-6 to offset the cholesterol increase from the palmitic

acid created as a result of de novo synthesis of fatty acids from

carbohydrates. Combining olive oil and grape seed oil provides a

better balance of fatty acids for normal cholesterol levels.

Tony

==

Pedersen A, Baumstark MW, Marckmann P, Gylling H, Sandstrom B., An

olive oil-rich diet results in higher concentrations of LDL

cholesterol and a higher number of LDL subfraction particles than

rapeseed oil and sunflower oil diets. J Lipid Res. 2000

Dec;41(12):1901-11. PMID: 11108723

===

> Tony, do you mean 10% (saturated) and 20% (omega 6) of all fat, or

of

> all calories? If " of all fat " , is the rest to be omega 3?

>

>

>

> --- In , " citpeks " <citpeks@y...>

wrote:

>

> > From the Hegsted equation it seems that a diet that

> > has 10% saturated fat and 20% omega-6 should result in normal

blood

> > cholesterol levels, but as far as I can determine, it is a trial

and

> > error process.

> >

> > Tony

[Guest guest]

Regarding chocolate, a search on " cocoa " should turn up lots of

good information. I introduced the topic some time back and it

produced a lengthy thread.

-

> Hi,

>

> I have been including small amounts of coconut milk and dark

chocolate

> in my diet for some time now. Based on what I've read, I thought

that

> even though they contain saturated fat, they would not effect my

> cholesterol adversely. However, I am wondering whether that

> information is accurate.

>

> I couldn't find any past posts regarding this subject. Also, what

> percent of lipids should be saturated? And does that include all

> saturated fats?

>

> Connie

[Guest guest]

Tony, thanks... it is only now beginning to dawn on me, despite your

very useful posts over time on this subject, along with those of

others, that I should limit the fat in my diet MUCH more carefully.

After your last post (below) I started figuring out that on a 1200

calorie day, I could only have 2g of fat (stearic) from chocolate

(yikes! I'm way over that), and the rest is 4g saturated, 24g

monounsaturated, 8g omega-6, 2g omega-3.

I was wondering if you had figured out how to achieve this balance

of 10/60/20/5/5 in your daily food choices. I expect you'll tell us

it's accomplished with a balanced whole food diet (including a small

serving of fish, a few raw nuts and a sliver of avocado) in which

the only added fat is a salad dressing made with olive oil and grape

seed oil. And in which one is permitted a small amount ground cocoa,

lean animal protein, and egg yolk.

Gee, is this food plan starting to sound familiar?

By the way, the only time my cholesterol ever went up above 143 was

when I experimented with Atkins-style eating... it skyrocketed

immediately into the 170s.

--- In , " citpeks " <citpeks@y...>

wrote:

> ,

>

> The percentages are for the fat composition. Assuming a Zone-type

> diet (30%P, 30%F, and 40%C), the 30% calories from fat might have a

> composition like:

>

> 10% saturated (myristic, palmitic)

> 60% monounsaturated

> 20% omega-6

> 5% omega-3 (to get a 4:1 ratio of omega-6 to omega-3)

> 5% other (stearic, DHA, etc.)

>

> Compare this to Olive oil:

> 13% saturated (palmitic)

> 71% monounsaturated

> 10% omega-6

> 1% omega-3

> 5% other (3% stearic, etc)

>

> Although stearic acid (C18:0) is a saturated fat, it does not

> influence cholesterol levels substantially. This is why I put it

> under " other " .

>

> Olive oil diets tend to increase cholesterol because there is not

> enough omega-6 to offset the cholesterol increase from the palmitic

> acid created as a result of de novo synthesis of fatty acids from

> carbohydrates. Combining olive oil and grape seed oil provides a

> better balance of fatty acids for normal cholesterol levels.

>

> Tony

> ==

>

> Pedersen A, Baumstark MW, Marckmann P, Gylling H, Sandstrom B., An

> olive oil-rich diet results in higher concentrations of LDL

> cholesterol and a higher number of LDL subfraction particles than

> rapeseed oil and sunflower oil diets. J Lipid Res. 2000

> Dec;41(12):1901-11. PMID: 11108723

>

>