Re: Insulin resistance in lacto-ovo-vegetarians vs omnivores

[Guest guest]

Hi Al:

I think that your first sentance there might helpfully be modified to

read: " It seems that lacto-ovo-vegetarians have better insulin

resistance than those on the Standard American Diet. "

The words actually used in the study are " a traditional western diet. "

I mention this because not all omnivores consume the standard

american diet of the " ...... (general population) " .

Rodney.

--- In , Al Pater <old542000@y...>

wrote:

> Hi All,

>

> It seems that lacto-ovo-vegetarians have better insulin resistance

than omnivores.

> Note the Table 2 age effect in omnivores only of insulin resistance

values IR

> (HOMA). The oats and especially barley values for intake were

highly different.

>

> The pdf of the 3-page including references paper are available.

>

> posted the Medline citation and abstract on the Main CR

Society list.

>

> Eur J Nutr. 2005 Jun 10; [Epub ahead of print]

> No evidence of insulin resistance in normal weight vegetarians A

case control study.

> Valachovicova M, Krajcovicova-Kudlackova M, Blazicek P, Babinska

K.

> PMID: 15940383

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15940383

>

> ... Randomly selected group of vegetarians consisted of 95

> apparently healthy adult normal-weight long-term

> lacto-ovo-vegetarians, who consumed plant food, dairy

> products and eggs.A control group of 107 apparently

> healthy normal-weight non-vegetarians (general popu-

> lation) consumed a traditional western diet.The group

> characteristics are presented in Table 1.

>

> ... Table 1 Characteristic of groups, values of insulin, glucose,

insulin resistance

> and consumption of energy, selected nutrients and food

> ----------------------------

> ------Vegetarians Non-vegetarians

> ---------------------------

> n (men+women) 95 (39+56) 107 (45+62)

> Age range (y) 19–64 19–62

> Average age (y) 37.8±1.2 38.7±1.1

> BMI range 18.6–25.0 18.8–25.0

> Average BMI 22.1±0.2 22.5±0.2

> Period of vegetarianism (y) 10.2±0.5 –

> Smokers 0%0%

> Insulin (mU/l) 4.96±0.23* 7.32±0.41

> Glucose (mmol/l) 4.47±0.05** 4.71±0.07

> Insulin resistance (IR HOMA) 0.99±0.05* 1.59±0.10

> >3.8 0 %6%

> ------------------------

> Daily intake of energy, selected nutrients and food

> Total energy (kJ) 9847±151 10267±147

> Fats (g) 64.2±1.4 67.0±2.1

> Saccharides (g) 377±17 397±13

> Proteins (g) 54.8±1.2 56.2±1.6

> Fiber (g) 36.2±0.5* 26.7±0.7

> Legumes (g) 18.9±1.1* 8.0±0.6

> Oat (flakes, porridge) (g) 20.3±1.0* 2.4±0.2

> Barley pearls (g) 10.6±0.6* 0

> Whole grain products (g) 176±11* 41±2

> -----------------------------

> Results are expressed as mean±SEM

> ** P <0.01;* P <0.001

>

> ...

> Table 2 Insulin resistance values IR (HOMA) with respect to age

> ------------------------------

> --------Vegetarians Non-vegetarians----

> Age range (y) n Average age (y) IR (HOMA) n Average age (y) IR

(HOMA)

> ---------------------------

> 19–30 30 24.4±0.6 0.97±0.07 32 24.2±0.4 1.14±0.08

> 31–40 24 35.1±0.6 0.91±0.08 21 35.8±0.5 1.41±0.22**

> 41–50 25 45.3±0.6 1.14±0.10 38 45.6±0.4 1.85±0.18*

> 51–64 16 55.1±0.9 0.91±0.08 16 55.2±0.8 2.09±0.33*

> ---------------------------

> ** P <0.05;* P <0.001

>

> Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@y...

>

>

>

> __________________________________

> Discover

> Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend.

Check it out!

> http://discover./weekend.html

[Guest guest]

I think you have to start reading bewteen the lines and seeing the big

picture. Add the finding of this study to Ornish and to and

to Pritikin and the phytonutrient studies emerging on almost a daily

basis, and one begins to see the benefits of moving away from high

protein animal based nutrition to a plant based diet.

May I ask why you would substitute beef, for instance, for spinach or

lima beans etc?

> > Hi All,

> >

> > It seems that lacto-ovo-vegetarians have better insulin resistance

> than omnivores.

> > Note the Table 2 age effect in omnivores only of insulin resistance

> values IR

> > (HOMA). The oats and especially barley values for intake were

> highly different.

> >

> > The pdf of the 3-page including references paper are available.

> >

> > posted the Medline citation and abstract on the Main CR

> Society list.

> >

> > Eur J Nutr. 2005 Jun 10; [Epub ahead of print]

> > No evidence of insulin resistance in normal weight vegetarians A

> case control study.

> > Valachovicova M, Krajcovicova-Kudlackova M, Blazicek P, Babinska

> K.

> > PMID: 15940383

> >

> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15940383

> >

> > ... Randomly selected group of vegetarians consisted of 95

> > apparently healthy adult normal-weight long-term

> > lacto-ovo-vegetarians, who consumed plant food, dairy

> > products and eggs.A control group of 107 apparently

> > healthy normal-weight non-vegetarians (general popu-

> > lation) consumed a traditional western diet.The group

> > characteristics are presented in Table 1.

> >

> > ... Table 1 Characteristic of groups, values of insulin, glucose,

> insulin resistance

> > and consumption of energy, selected nutrients and food

> > ----------------------------

> > ------Vegetarians Non-vegetarians

> > ---------------------------

> > n (men+women) 95 (39+56) 107 (45+62)

> > Age range (y) 19–64 19–62

> > Average age (y) 37.8±1.2 38.7±1.1

> > BMI range 18.6–25.0 18.8–25.0

> > Average BMI 22.1±0.2 22.5±0.2

> > Period of vegetarianism (y) 10.2±0.5 –

> > Smokers 0%0%

> > Insulin (mU/l) 4.96±0.23* 7.32±0.41

> > Glucose (mmol/l) 4.47±0.05** 4.71±0.07

> > Insulin resistance (IR HOMA) 0.99±0.05* 1.59±0.10

> > >3.8 0 %6%

> > ------------------------

> > Daily intake of energy, selected nutrients and food

> > Total energy (kJ) 9847±151 10267±147

> > Fats (g) 64.2±1.4 67.0±2.1

> > Saccharides (g) 377±17 397±13

> > Proteins (g) 54.8±1.2 56.2±1.6

> > Fiber (g) 36.2±0.5* 26.7±0.7

> > Legumes (g) 18.9±1.1* 8.0±0.6

> > Oat (flakes, porridge) (g) 20.3±1.0* 2.4±0.2

> > Barley pearls (g) 10.6±0.6* 0

> > Whole grain products (g) 176±11* 41±2

> > -----------------------------

> > Results are expressed as mean±SEM

> > ** P <0.01;* P <0.001

> >

> > ...

> > Table 2 Insulin resistance values IR (HOMA) with respect to age

> > ------------------------------

> > --------Vegetarians Non-vegetarians----

> > Age range (y) n Average age (y) IR (HOMA) n Average age (y) IR

> (HOMA)

> > ---------------------------

> > 19–30 30 24.4±0.6 0.97±0.07 32 24.2±0.4 1.14±0.08

> > 31–40 24 35.1±0.6 0.91±0.08 21 35.8±0.5 1.41±0.22**

> > 41–50 25 45.3±0.6 1.14±0.10 38 45.6±0.4 1.85±0.18*

> > 51–64 16 55.1±0.9 0.91±0.08 16 55.2±0.8 2.09±0.33*

> > ---------------------------

> > ** P <0.05;* P <0.001

> >

> > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@y...

> >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________

> > Discover

> > Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend.

> Check it out!

> > http://discover./weekend.html

[Guest guest]

: have you read Tony's messages which refute your ideas on ?

/message/19115

/message/19095

should not be equated with the same stature as Ornish or Pritikin.

He is not well known at all and most of us (who are very well versed in

nutrition) had never heard of him til you brought him up.

Also: We do NOT advocate a HIGH protein animal based diet. Never did. We

advocate Walford's diet . I hope you've read: BT120YD.

on 6/14/2005 4:33 PM, drsusanforshey at drsusanforshey@... wrote:

> I think you have to start reading bewteen the lines and seeing the big

> picture. Add the finding of this study to Ornish and to and

> to Pritikin and the phytonutrient studies emerging on almost a daily

> basis, and one begins to see the benefits of moving away from high

> protein animal based nutrition to a plant based diet.

>

> May I ask why you would substitute beef, for instance, for spinach or

> lima beans etc?

[Guest guest]

Francesca, Tony and I have been communicating off-list on this, and I

wouldn't call his comments " refutations " , they are more " concerns "

than anything.

I've read everything Dr. Walford has published but this is a work in

progress is it not?

As I said the big picture starting to emerge for me is less animal,

less protein, less fat and more complex carbs (leafy greens ala Jeff

Novick). That's what is coming into focus for me. Do you disagree?

>

> > I think you have to start reading bewteen the lines and seeing the big

> > picture. Add the finding of this study to Ornish and to and

> > to Pritikin and the phytonutrient studies emerging on almost a daily

> > basis, and one begins to see the benefits of moving away from high

> > protein animal based nutrition to a plant based diet.

> >

> > May I ask why you would substitute beef, for instance, for spinach or

> > lima beans etc?

[Guest guest]

Hi :

I did not suggest substituting beef for anything. I pretty much only

eat beef when someone serves it to me in their home. I simply said

that not all omnivores eat the standard american diet - since it was

people on the standard american diet that essentially served in that

study as the control group against which vegetarians were compared.

We can all agree the standard american diet is littered with many

major shortcomings. So doing a study to compare the health of

vegetarians with those on the standard american diet is a waste of

time, money and resources. The result should have been obvious

before starting such a study.

But, that said, imo it is not only possible but quite easy to eat a

healthy diet that includes some meat. I am suggesting that eating

enough (not a lot) of any lean meat product, or especially fish, will

provide the nutrients that are not readily available from plant

sources.

But since you raise the issue of beef. Where do you get the

impression that meat is the major source of protein?

You might want to go to Fitday.com and compare the data for spinach

and broiled regular ground beef.

For 1000 calories in both cases, you will find that spinach contains

520 calories-worth of protein, and ground beef just 333.

So can I take it that you are recommending that we should eat broiled

ground beef in preference to spinach? I do eat spinach pretty much

every week without exception. I may need to change that if it turns

out that protein is proven to be 'the villain of the piece'.

I do not know what the currently ongoing University College London

study will show. I can guess that restricting either fat or protein

may each be shown to increase longevity. But, as I say I do not

know. Even when the study is released it will still leave a large

number of important questions unanswered.

Rodney.

> > > Hi All,

> > >

> > > It seems that lacto-ovo-vegetarians have better insulin

resistance

> > than omnivores.

> > > Note the Table 2 age effect in omnivores only of insulin

resistance

> > values IR

> > > (HOMA). The oats and especially barley values for intake were

> > highly different.

> > >

> > > The pdf of the 3-page including references paper are available.

> > >

> > > posted the Medline citation and abstract on the Main CR

> > Society list.

> > >

> > > Eur J Nutr. 2005 Jun 10; [Epub ahead of print]

> > > No evidence of insulin resistance in normal weight vegetarians

A

> > case control study.

> > > Valachovicova M, Krajcovicova-Kudlackova M, Blazicek P,

Babinska

> > K.

> > > PMID: 15940383

> > >

> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> > cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15940383

> > >

> > > ... Randomly selected group of vegetarians consisted of 95

> > > apparently healthy adult normal-weight long-term

> > > lacto-ovo-vegetarians, who consumed plant food, dairy

> > > products and eggs.A control group of 107 apparently

> > > healthy normal-weight non-vegetarians (general popu-

> > > lation) consumed a traditional western diet.The group

> > > characteristics are presented in Table 1.

> > >

> > > ... Table 1 Characteristic of groups, values of insulin,

glucose,

> > insulin resistance

> > > and consumption of energy, selected nutrients and food

> > > ----------------------------

> > > ------Vegetarians Non-vegetarians

> > > ---------------------------

> > > n (men+women) 95 (39+56) 107 (45+62)

> > > Age range (y) 19–64 19–62

> > > Average age (y) 37.8±1.2 38.7±1.1

> > > BMI range 18.6–25.0 18.8–25.0

> > > Average BMI 22.1±0.2 22.5±0.2

> > > Period of vegetarianism (y) 10.2±0.5 –

> > > Smokers 0%0%

> > > Insulin (mU/l) 4.96±0.23* 7.32±0.41

> > > Glucose (mmol/l) 4.47±0.05** 4.71±0.07

> > > Insulin resistance (IR HOMA) 0.99±0.05* 1.59±0.10

> > > >3.8 0 %6%

> > > ------------------------

> > > Daily intake of energy, selected nutrients and food

> > > Total energy (kJ) 9847±151 10267±147

> > > Fats (g) 64.2±1.4 67.0±2.1

> > > Saccharides (g) 377±17 397±13

> > > Proteins (g) 54.8±1.2 56.2±1.6

> > > Fiber (g) 36.2±0.5* 26.7±0.7

> > > Legumes (g) 18.9±1.1* 8.0±0.6

> > > Oat (flakes, porridge) (g) 20.3±1.0* 2.4±0.2

> > > Barley pearls (g) 10.6±0.6* 0

> > > Whole grain products (g) 176±11* 41±2

> > > -----------------------------

> > > Results are expressed as mean±SEM

> > > ** P <0.01;* P <0.001

> > >

> > > ...

> > > Table 2 Insulin resistance values IR (HOMA) with respect to age

> > > ------------------------------

> > > --------Vegetarians Non-vegetarians----

> > > Age range (y) n Average age (y) IR (HOMA) n Average age (y)

IR

> > (HOMA)

> > > ---------------------------

> > > 19–30 30 24.4±0.6 0.97±0.07 32 24.2±0.4 1.14±0.08

> > > 31–40 24 35.1±0.6 0.91±0.08 21 35.8±0.5 1.41±0.22**

> > > 41–50 25 45.3±0.6 1.14±0.10 38 45.6±0.4 1.85±0.18*

> > > 51–64 16 55.1±0.9 0.91±0.08 16 55.2±0.8 2.09±0.33*

> > > ---------------------------

> > > ** P <0.05;* P <0.001

> > >

> > > Al Pater, PhD; email: old542000@y...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________

> > > Discover

> > > Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend.

> > Check it out!

> > > http://discover./weekend.html