Re: What is it the most important to restrict?

[Guest guest]

Is sugar and/or the " inflammation " argument playng any role at all, as many

past studies have suggested?

on 6/14/2005 8:14 AM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

> Hi folks:

>

> Purely speculation here ............ taking this argument one step

> further ............ if the improved aging response in CR is a

> result of a slower rate of cell replication (and therefore a slower

> shortening of telomeres and a longer time before the Hayflick limit

> is approached/reached) and if we know (at least it is true of

> drosophila) that carbohydrate restriction is of comparatively minor

> importance, then the big question may be:

[Guest guest]

It may turn out that, for longevity, it is more important to restrict

FAT according to the following Washington Post story.

Tony

=======

Fat Found to Accelerate Aging Process

Obesity Adds Equivalent of Nine Years to Appearance of Cells, Study

Says

By Rob Stein

Washington Post Staff Writer

Tuesday, June 14, 2005; Page A02

Scientists have produced the first direct evidence that fat

accelerates aging, possibly speeding the unraveling of crucial genetic

structures inside cells that wither with age.

A team of researchers from the United States and Britain found that

the more people weigh, the older their cells appear on a molecular

level, with obesity adding the equivalent of nearly nine years of age

to a person's body.

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The findings suggest that many health problems associated with being

overweight -- heart disease, cancer, diabetes, arthritis -- may result

from fat cells hastening the natural aging process.

" We've known obesity increases your risk of many diseases, and of

dying early. What's novel here is that it seems that fat itself

actually accelerates the aging process, " said Tim Spector of St.

Hospital in London, who led the study, which was published

online yesterday by the Lancet medical journal. " This may not be

apparent because these people may not have as many wrinkles. But

underneath it looks like they are aging at a faster rate. "

That could help explain, for example, why an alarming number of obese

children are developing the most common form of diabetes, which had

been known as " adult-onset " diabetes; prior to the surge of obesity

among the young, it almost invariably had been seen only in adults.

" It might just change the whole of the body's metabolism in a way that

increases aging and increases the risk for all the aging diseases, "

Spector said.

Other researchers said the findings are provocative and could lead to

fundamental new insights into the effects of fat on a molecular level

at a time when public health experts are alarmed about the number of

obese people.

" We know obese people live, on average, less time. Here we are going

into the DNA sequence of these people and showing this condition is

associated with a biomarker of aging, " said Ravussin of the

Pennington Biomedical Research Center in Baton Rouge, La. " I think

it's going to stimulate a lot of research. "

The study comes amid intense debate over the impact of obesity. More

than two-thirds of Americans are overweight, including about one-third

who are obese, raising concern the nation could be facing an epidemic

of weight-related illnesses. Federal health officials, however, have

been criticized recently for producing conflicting estimates of the

impact of obesity, including a report that some said suggested people

who were overweight but not obese may actually have a lower death

rate. CDC Director L. Gerberding and other public health experts

said that finding was misinterpreted to suggest weight could be

beneficial, and they remain convinced obesity represents a major

public health threat.

Skeptics continue to challenge that assertion and question the new

findings, saying the researchers had failed to rule out the

possibility that other factors may be responsible for the results.

People who are overweight, for example, may not get enough exercise,

which could account for premature aging.

" It is impossible to determine if the 'aging' association with obesity

is due to obesity itself or some other factors that co-vary with

obesity, such as diet, physical activity, fitness, or other lifestyle

factor, " Glenn A. Gaesser, of the University of Virginia in

Charlottesville, wrote in an e-mail.

But Spector said the results are consistent with recent findings that,

contrary to the long-held belief that fat cells are inert blobs, they

churn out a host of substances that can be toxic to the body.

" So it may be the body has to repair itself much faster and that

accelerates the aging process, " Spector said in a telephone interview.

" We don't fully understand all the mechanisms of how obesity causes

ill health, but this may be a central one that underpins all of them. "

Spector and colleagues at the University of Medicine and Dentistry of

New Jersey studied 1,122 women ages 18 to 76, including 119 who were

obese. The researchers took blood samples so they could examine

structures inside their white blood cells called telomeres.

Telomeres are the caps at the ends of chromosomes -- the molecules

that carry genes. Every time a cell divides, telomeres shorten. In the

natural aging process, telomeres eventually get so short that cells

can no longer divide, and they then die. As more and more cells reach

the end of their telomeres and die, the inexorable process produces

the effects of aging.

Spector found a direct relationship between body weight and telomere

length, with telomere length decreasing with increasing body weight.

The lean women had significantly longer telomeres than the heavy

women, whose telomeres were significantly longer than those of the

obese women. Obesity was defined using a standard measurement based on

height and weight known as a body mass index, or BMI. Anyone with a

BMI of 30 or higher is considered obese.

In addition, the researchers found that the higher levels of a hormone

in the blood produced by fat cells called leptin, the shorter the

telomeres.

The researchers found a similar relationship with smoking, with the

length of telomeres shortening with the number of cigarettes the

smokers in the group smoked.

Rudolph L. Leibel of Columbia University said the findings were

provocative but did not necessarily mean people who are overweight, or

have short telomeres, are destined to die young.

" It may be that in a biological sense the aging process is accelerated

in these individuals, but that in and of itself doesn't necessarily

permit you to predict what the outcome will be, " he said. " Maybe the

telomere shortening is comparable to gray hair. Somebody who has gray

hair is more likely to be older, but it doesn't cause aging. "

> > > > Hi

> > > >

> > > > Im a vegan and recently began CR, i'm having an extremely

> > difficult

> > > > time reaching my protein requirement (im 5'4 " and 115 right

> now I

> > > > would like to reach 103) I belive my protein requirement if

> 40g, I

> > > > barely ingest 20g- that's on a good day.

> > > >

> > > > I honestly do not know what to do- I'm not if I have to

> > relenquish my

> > > > beliefs to con't this regimine

> > > >

> > > > ::sigh::

> > > >

> > > > prior CR i was eating nuts, legumes and grains for protein,

but

> > now i

> > > > have to cut back on my portions and I simply am not getting

> enough

> > > > protein. i can't spend $3 everyday for tofu.

> > > >

> > > > i dont know.

> > > >

> > > > i know lisa walford is a vegan, how does she do it?

> > > >

> > > > i was thinking about buying some soy protein powder but it is

> very

> > > > calorie dense and i dont want to rely on special foods.

> > > >

> > > > i dont know- very disheartened

> > > >

> > > > any advice would be greatly appreicated.

> > > >

> > > > edaz19

[Guest guest]

Hi Francesca:

Presumably reduced inflammation is somehow connected with all this,

since it is presumably a major factor in the much delayed onset of

cancer in CR mice. But I don't have any views about the mechanism.

Rodney.

>

> > Hi folks:

> >

> > Purely speculation here ............ taking this argument one

step

> > further ............ if the improved aging response in CR is a

> > result of a slower rate of cell replication (and therefore a

slower

> > shortening of telomeres and a longer time before the Hayflick

limit

> > is approached/reached) and if we know (at least it is true of

> > drosophila) that carbohydrate restriction is of comparatively

minor

> > importance, then the big question may be:

[Guest guest]

Hi Rodney/Francesca

Do you have any more to say on the subject of inflammation?

Gay

--- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...>

wrote:

> Hi Francesca:

>

> Presumably reduced inflammation is somehow connected with all this,

> since it is presumably a major factor in the much delayed onset of

> cancer in CR mice. But I don't have any views about the mechanism.

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure that there has to be " bad " macronutrient... It appears all are

pretty much part of a balanced diet... The magic aging rate mechanism we are

trying to parse out is probably more related to energy balance and perhaps the

pattern of how we consume that energy. I suspect it's difficult to completely

control for conversion efficiency in other than the most rigorous macronutrient

studies.

A lot of the energy behind good food/bad food research is probably commercial.

The gross over simplification with which most dietary advice has been presented

and promoted (via advertising) encourages our good food/bad food belief system.

Food is pretty much a source of energy and nutrients. In excessive amounts

(like the SAD) or perhaps complete avoidance, what it " is " can matter too.

JR

-----Original Message-----

From:

[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Rodney

Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 7:14 AM

Subject: [ ] What is it the most important to restrict?

Hi folks:

Purely speculation here ............ taking this argument one step

further ............ if the improved aging response in CR is a

result of a slower rate of cell replication (and therefore a slower

shortening of telomeres and a longer time before the Hayflick limit

is approached/reached) and if we know (at least it is true of

drosophila) that carbohydrate restriction is of comparatively minor

importance, then the big question may be:

" Which is more likely to slow down the rate at which cell replication

proceeds - restriction of fat? or restriction of protein? "

My **GUESS** is that restricting protein may do more to slow down the

cell replication rate than restricting fat.

But I believe cell membranes contain a fair amount of fat, so it

could plausibly be the fat.

Or, logically, perhaps a shortage of EITHER ONE would do the trick,

if the issue is that it is an inadequate supply ('bottleneck' if you

like) of any single resource necessary for cell replication that

slows down the cell replication rate. Indeed it might even be found

that restriction of one single micronutrient that is vital for cell

replication - but not so vital for normal activities - would be

enough to slow the cell replication rate, and thereby delay reaching

the Hayflick limit. In other words, which bottleneck is the most

effective at slowing the cell replication rate while negatively

affecting other biological functions the least?

It will be at least five years before we have data from mammals to

confirm/refute any of this. But **perhaps** the conventional wisdom

with regard to protein intake **may** need to be revised some time

soon. Or perhaps Pritikin's view of the world will be

confirmed as the correct one? Not just from the point of view of

overall health, but as regards extension of maximal lifespan also.

I just can't wait to see the results!

Rodney.

--- In , " Rodney " <perspect1111@y...>

wrote: