Re: Maximum Heart Rate can change

[Guest guest]

The heart is a muscle and all of our other muscles adapt depending

on how they're used. It's logical that the heart could change with

how it is worked.

While the maximum may loosely be considered a biomarker for aging,

I am not aware of any studies wrt CR and suspect it might be

confounded by exercise patterns.

JR

-----Original Message-----

From:

[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Gay e

Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 8:40 AM

Subject: [ ] Maximum Heart Rate can change

Most people focused on exercising to a given percentage of maximum

heart rate seem to believe that Max Heart Rate can't be changed

other than minimally downwards with age.

I make no statement as to whether it can or can't be but here is the

answer I got from Polar.

Quote:

-----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Gay,

Thank you for your email.

Indeed the HRmax can change, it is not a once defined, always

constant value.

As already stated: Your maximum heart rate changes to some extent in

relation to your fitness. Regular exercise tends to decrease it

whereas detraining tends to increase it. There may also be some

variation according to the sport you go in for.

E.g. running HRmax > cycling HRmax > swimming HRmax.

For most basic fitness levels, the changes will be very moderate,

but high end athletes will get replicable changes in their HrMax

For more info:

'Maximum heart rate is the highest heart rate achieved in an all-out

effort. It is very individual due to heredity, fitness level and

age. Endurance training does not have great influence on maximum

heart rate but it tends to lower it (Zavorsky, 2000).'

http://support.polar.fi/PKBSupport.nsf/ALLDOCS/42256C2B001E0F6A422568

F7003372E6?OpenDocument

You should also be able to find documents concerning this subject in

the internet, using search-engines like f.e. google.

One example: 'Significant increases in VO2max and O2pulse occurred

in the DWR group that were not found in the control group.

Significant decreases occurred in HRmax of the DWR group compared to

the control.'

http://physiotherapy.curtin.edu.au/resources/educational-

resources/exphys/00/deep_water.cfm

Best Regards,

Olivier Pierrot

Customer Support Specialist

Polar Electro Oy,Finland

[Guest guest]

>>Most people focused on exercising to a given percentage of maximum

heart rate seem to believe that Max Heart Rate can't be changed other

than minimally downwards with age.

I make no statement as to whether it can or can't be but here is the

answer I got from Polar.

The answer from polar sounds like it is more directed at VO2 max and not

MHR. As far as I know, MHR can not be changed and if it cant, it isn't

so easy. It is " estimated " to decline with age, but I don't know of how

one would increase it.

On the other hand, VO2 max can be increased, does decrease with

detraining and is different amongst different groups of Athletes,

identically as was stated in the polar response for MHR.

Does anyone know of any clinical evidence, or studies showing that MHR

can be changed?

Thanks

Jeff

[Guest guest]

I've been searching for articles about MHR and whether it can change,

but can't find scientific material. All I can find are " fitness "

articles, which are suspect, IMHO.

Whether or not it can change, it won't change much. A better measure

of fitness is RHR, not MHR. And the HR that is used to determine VO2

max is the maximum HR achieved during the exercise, not a person's

actual HR.

So knowing MHR is useful for determining at what level you should be

exercising, but not for determining your fitness level.

Diane

--- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@p...>

wrote:

> >>Most people focused on exercising to a given percentage of maximum

> heart rate seem to believe that Max Heart Rate can't be changed

other

> than minimally downwards with age.

> I make no statement as to whether it can or can't be but here is the

> answer I got from Polar.

>

> The answer from polar sounds like it is more directed at VO2 max

and not

> MHR. As far as I know, MHR can not be changed and if it cant, it

isn't

> so easy. It is " estimated " to decline with age, but I don't know

of how

> one would increase it.

>

> On the other hand, VO2 max can be increased, does decrease with

> detraining and is different amongst different groups of Athletes,

> identically as was stated in the polar response for MHR.

>

> Does anyone know of any clinical evidence, or studies showing that

MHR

> can be changed?

>

> Thanks

> Jeff

[Guest guest]

Hi JR:

For speed, the point of the entire exercise is to WALK the mile as

fast as you possibly can, and take your pulse rate at five minutes

and at the end.

Elevation is required to be flat with no stoppages (at intersections,

for example). A measured athletic track would be ideal.

Bored to death? You only have to do it once every five years, or

whatever. Not five times every day! You must have a low threshold

for boredom ;; ^ )))

Rodney.

--- In , " " <crjohnr@b...>

wrote:

> Unless you control for speed and elevation (and to a

> lesser extent ambient), I wouldn't expect this to tell

> you much.

>

> I fear I would be bored to death walking a mile if I

> wasn't going somewhere

[Guest guest]

Some interesting thoughts on this subject. I think I'm inclined to

agree with in that is there any reason why, the heart being a

muscle, that it shouldn't be subject to some change?

I must admit I was expecting to be able to increase maximum heart

with fitness as well as VO2max and I was startled to see Polar

suggest that it would come down as the heart got more efficient.

Having said that, that is exactly what happened to me so I can

accept that, although since I'm using a Polar monitor that's not a

very scientific conclusion.

BTW, the suggestion that it is beiing confused with VO2Max, I can

assure you that it is not as regards the reply from Polar, not is it

being confused with max heart rate ACHIEVED during workouts.

As regards studies I found the deep water study mentioned in my

originial post interesting. There doesn't seem to be THAT many

studies around either for or against Heart Rate Max changing.

I think the thing that is perhaps more relevant, to me at least, is

whether one can protect the heart with some form of high intensity

training in short bursts. If so it would be wise to be reasonably

sure of your MHR. I think I will trust the Polar as being more

accurate than the 220-age formula. That will do for me, as I too

wouldn't want to go to the extremes of a clinical test to pin it

down a point or two more.

As for the idea of 10 minutes a day, eg as per Al Sears, I think

that will be fairly easy to see if I can " train " my heart gradually

to get a quick reponse to rapid exertion and a quick recovery, and

whether 10 minutes like that 3 times a week is adequate. Having

said that, I will be warming up first!

Regards, Gay

ps I have just got s Heart Monitor Training, suggested by

Diane, - tonights bedtime reading! Oh and I do agree with Diane

that resting heart rate is more important re fitness, and in my

case, the ambient heart rate as I often experience a big change

between lying and sitting, especially on my 'CFS' days!