Re: Tanita Scales/% Body FatRMR

July 20, 2005

Do you know if age actually factors into the calculation or

is it just used to display where one falls in the optimum

range (the red, yellow, green of Tanita). I had always assumed

it was the latter and so have just left the age alone for the

last three years.

Thanks,

-

--- In , " " <crjohnr@b...>

wrote:

> I had considered modifying mine so instead just measuring between

the two foot pads one electrode was connected to both feet, and a

> second electrode connected to both hands... this would probably

need to be re-calibrated but it might be a little more stable.

>

> They seem to measure one electrical characteristic and weight, are

told age, sex, and general activity level, then use a look up

> table or simple formula. This approach is hugely variable since the

measurement varies so much with hydration level, bladder

> contents, etc.

>

> They would do themselves a great service if they simply built in an

averaging function so they could average over multiple readings

> and not appear so variable.

>

> Otherwise it's a pretty good weight scale and a nice toy.

>

> JR

July 20, 2005

Hi all

I have had a number of conversations with Tanita about my BC532. I

do love the scales but it takes some getting used to, to know what

figures you can trust. They are VERY dependent on water % which can

slew the fat% particularly. My lean mass has shown variations of up

to 10lb this week.

Mine gives a 'metabloic' age which borders on the ridiculous when

hydration levels are high. I think my best age has been 19 and

considering I'm 53 ....... (I wish!)

I used them several times a day for a while until I got used to them

and knew when to trust and when to discount the figures.

For example, my fat% this morning was 25%, this evening 21.7%. When

fat is down, lean mass is up. Bone mass varies a little. Not only

is there a big swing between morning and evening, but from day to

day sometimes. I suspect I am a little worse than many being

somewhat salt sensitive.

If you have the patience to use them regularly, they are great but

if you only weigh every week or two, I would think again, especially

if you are at all bothered by a reading that goes the 'wrong' way.

I'd be happy to send my spreadsheet figures to any-one interested so

you can see the sort of variation before you decide whether to buy

some.

Hope this helps.

Gay

ps I would still buy them but then I'm a gadget freak!

> > I had considered modifying mine so instead just measuring

between

> the two foot pads one electrode was connected to both feet, and a

> > second electrode connected to both hands... this would probably

> need to be re-calibrated but it might be a little more stable.

> >

> > They seem to measure one electrical characteristic and weight,

are

> told age, sex, and general activity level, then use a look up

> > table or simple formula. This approach is hugely variable since

the

> measurement varies so much with hydration level, bladder

> > contents, etc.

> >

> > They would do themselves a great service if they simply built in

an

> averaging function so they could average over multiple readings

> > and not appear so variable.

> >

> > Otherwise it's a pretty good weight scale and a nice toy.

> >

> > JR

July 20, 2005

I recall reading one paper about how they calibrated some of

their algorithms and I believe they used college age subjects.

I would be very surprised if they didn't add some windage into

their calculations for age. I don't recall a large jump the

last time I changed my age in the scale but it would be hard

to see in the context of day to day swings.

I would strongly suggest not relying upon a Tanita BF scale for any

important measurements like avoiding too low BF for example.

I think it's a fine weight scale... the %BF is amusing but I

find it too variable to consider credible. Not very usable without

smoothing and averaging the readings.

I hope they reinvest some of the money they must be making to

improve the utility and relevance of the characteristic they are

measuring. Be advised that resolution and accuracy are not

the same. I would be glad to give up some resolution for a little

more accuracy.

JR

-----Original Message-----

From:

[mailto: ]On Behalf Of cronzen

Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 2:43 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Tanita Scales/% Body FatRMR

Do you know if age actually factors into the calculation or

is it just used to display where one falls in the optimum

range (the red, yellow, green of Tanita). I had always assumed

it was the latter and so have just left the age alone for the

last three years.

Thanks,

-

--- In , " " <crjohnr@b...>

wrote:

> I had considered modifying mine so instead just measuring between

the two foot pads one electrode was connected to both feet, and a

> second electrode connected to both hands... this would probably

need to be re-calibrated but it might be a little more stable.

>

> They seem to measure one electrical characteristic and weight, are

told age, sex, and general activity level, then use a look up

> table or simple formula. This approach is hugely variable since the

measurement varies so much with hydration level, bladder

> contents, etc.

>

> They would do themselves a great service if they simply built in an

averaging function so they could average over multiple readings

> and not appear so variable.

>

> Otherwise it's a pretty good weight scale and a nice toy.

>

> JR

July 21, 2005

PS

My comment about " how they do it " was related to the Bone Density

figures. I am familiar with the body fat methods but wondering how they

will figure bone density/mass.

My new one will be here this week and I will track the numbers for a few

weeks and let you know what I think compared to the old one.

I also think it is a great scale, interesting for monitoring numbers and

a fun toy.

Jeff

July 21, 2005

Message: 10

Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 20:11:50 -0000

From: " Gay e " <@...>

Subject: Re: Tanita Scales/% Body FatRMR

Hi all

I have had a number of conversations with Tanita about my BC532. I

do love the scales but it takes some getting used to, to know what

figures you can trust. They are VERY dependent on water % which can

slew the fat% particularly. My lean mass has shown variations of up

to 10lb this week.

Mine gives a 'metabloic' age which borders on the ridiculous when

hydration levels are high. I think my best age has been 19 and

considering I'm 53 ....... (I wish!)

I used them several times a day for a while until I got used to them

and knew when to trust and when to discount the figures.

For example, my fat% this morning was 25%, this evening 21.7%.

--My experience is similar, with 23.something in the evening and 26+ in the

morning. I suspect it's more a function of whether the soles of my feet have

dried out (sounds silly, but that's my best guess) rather than actual body

hydration because my water loss overnight usually can't be more than a couple of

pounds, at most. Needless to say, I use the evening BF% value in my

calculations.

;-)

Maco

February 27, 2006

Jeff have tested this new scale yet? I'm interested in purchasing this

to keep an eye on my BF while CRON. If these are reasonably accurate

they would be a big help to many of us.

Thanks.

>

> In a recent discussion on % BF, several have mentioned (me included)

> that they like to use one of the scales made by Tanita. While they

> have limitations, they do show trends.

>

> In a recent move, I damaged mine, and was about to get a new one, when I

> noticed that they just came out with a new line that is supposed to not

> only measure %BF, but also Body Water %, Muscle Mass, Bone Mass, Basal

> Metabolic Rate, Metabolic Age, Visceral Fat and Physique Rating.

>

> I am not sure how they are doing it, or their accuracy and have

> contacted them about it, but I have also ordered the top ironman model

> to try it out. I am interested mostly in the RMR and Bone Mass.

>

> So, if anyone else is interested, you can see the new scales here.

> Rodney, maybe you want to also look into how they are proposing to do

> this.

>

> http://www.tanita.com/IronManScales.shtml

>

> Regards

> Jeff

>

> PS again, no financial interest in the company at all

>

> PSS, just about finished with 100 MedGem RMR tests and will compare them

> to standard RMR equations, like HB and see how they do.

>

February 27, 2006

Jeff have tested this new scale yet? I'm interested in purchasing this

to keep an eye on my BF while CRON. If these are reasonably accurate

they would be a big help to many of us.

Thanks.

>

> In a recent discussion on % BF, several have mentioned (me included)

> that they like to use one of the scales made by Tanita. While they

> have limitations, they do show trends.

>

> In a recent move, I damaged mine, and was about to get a new one, when I

> noticed that they just came out with a new line that is supposed to not

> only measure %BF, but also Body Water %, Muscle Mass, Bone Mass, Basal

> Metabolic Rate, Metabolic Age, Visceral Fat and Physique Rating.

>

> I am not sure how they are doing it, or their accuracy and have

> contacted them about it, but I have also ordered the top ironman model

> to try it out. I am interested mostly in the RMR and Bone Mass.

>

> So, if anyone else is interested, you can see the new scales here.

> Rodney, maybe you want to also look into how they are proposing to do

> this.

>

> http://www.tanita.com/IronManScales.shtml

>

> Regards

> Jeff

>

> PS again, no financial interest in the company at all

>

> PSS, just about finished with 100 MedGem RMR tests and will compare them

> to standard RMR equations, like HB and see how they do.

>

February 27, 2006

I have an older one, too, and I suspect that Tanitas are viewed as de

rigueur by many CRONies. My experience is that degree of moisture present

in the soles of my feet heavily influences the readings, making morning

(low-sole-moisture) readings of BF inaccurately high, but by viewing a

range of readings at different times (and thus sole conditions) of the

feet, one can get a pretty fair idea of one's likely true value range

(late in the day after having worn socks and shoes all day usually gives

me my lowest, thus, of course, most-likely-to-be-true values, ;-)

).

Good product, in my experience, and the values match those obtained from

alternative means.

Maco

At 11:56 AM 2/27/2006, you wrote:

Jeff have tested this new

scale yet? I'm interested in purchasing this

to keep an eye on my BF while CRON. If these are reasonably accurate

they would be a big help to many of us.

Thanks.

>

> In a recent discussion on % BF, several have mentioned (me

included)

> that they like to use one of the scales made by Tanita.

While they

> have limitations, they do show trends.

>

> In a recent move, I damaged mine, and was about to get a new one,

when I

> noticed that they just came out with a new line that is supposed to

not

> only measure %BF, but also Body Water %, Muscle Mass, Bone Mass,

Basal

> Metabolic Rate, Metabolic Age, Visceral Fat and Physique Rating.

>

> I am not sure how they are doing it, or their accuracy and have

> contacted them about it, but I have also ordered the top ironman

model

> to try it out. I am interested mostly in the RMR and Bone

Mass.

>

> So, if anyone else is interested, you can see the new scales

here.

> Rodney, maybe you want to also look into how they are proposing to

do

> this.

>

http://www.tanita.com/IronManScales.shtml

>

> Regards

> Jeff

>

> PS again, no financial interest in the company at all

>

> PSS, just about finished with 100 MedGem RMR tests and will compare

them

> to standard RMR equations, like HB and see how they do.

>

February 27, 2006