Guest guest Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 MHR can and does change, sometimes day to day. Factors that are involved are humidity at the time of determination, oxygen level in the air at the time of determination, levels of carbon monoxide in the air at the time of determination, heart chamber size, of the person in question, glycogen levels in the muscles, all of which will have a factor in how fast your heart can beat. This doesn't include the levels of potassium and calcium in the blood. As these become lower, the hearts ability to contract fast is diminished. Most of these factors will also impact the resting heart rate. A runner with 10% body fat may have a lower resting heart rate than a weight lifter with 2% body fat. The first increases heart chamber size, the second increases the muscle thickness of the heart. Part of the adaptive process, the weight lifter's heart has to beat against levels of high blood pressure, the runner's does not. I hope everyone had a great 4th. Warmest regards, Don White Seguin, Tx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 Part of the confusion may be semantics but are we talking about true absolute MHR or observed/tested relative MHR? For instance, many factors may influence the " relative " maximum amount of weight someone can lift on a day, or their " relatvie " maximum speed they can run in a day, but they wont change the " absolute " maximum of weight or speed the person can ultimately acheive. Jeff ________________________________ From: on behalf of Don White Sent: Wed 7/6/05 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Maximum heart rate MHR can and does change, sometimes day to day. Factors that are involved are humidity at the time of determination, oxygen level in the air at the time of determination, levels of carbon monoxide in the air at the time of determination, heart chamber size, of the person in question, glycogen levels in the muscles, all of which will have a factor in how fast your heart can beat. This doesn't include the levels of potassium and calcium in the blood. As these become lower, the hearts ability to contract fast is diminished. Most of these factors will also impact the resting heart rate. A runner with 10% body fat may have a lower resting heart rate than a weight lifter with 2% body fat. The first increases heart chamber size, the second increases the muscle thickness of the heart. Part of the adaptive process, the weight lifter's heart has to beat against levels of high blood pressure, the runner's does not. I hope everyone had a great 4th. Warmest regards, Don White Seguin, Tx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 Not to be the cynic here, but does anyone have any data to support the claims about the abiltiy to change MHR? It would seem that with all the research into training and all the elite athletes in competition who are being studied, who this could be so important to, that this data would be readily available on whether it could change and how to change it. Personally, I havent seen any of it. Why would there be so much data on VO2 max, RHR, Anerobuc threshold, RMR, etc etc but not this? >>>BTW, the suggestion that it is beiing confused with VO2Max, I can assure you that it is not as regards the reply from Polar, not is it being confused with max heart rate ACHIEVED during workouts. How is that you can be so sure of what some one else is saying, or implying just from a written response and be so sure that they cant be mistaken? While this list does respect people opinions, insights and perspectives, it is predominately based on its members providing the science and evidence to support any claim we make, such as the above above changing MHR. Thanks jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 IMO, the confusion is simply stated in your previous post (thanks for the ref) - HR changes with BP, ie, the volume the heart can produce. The guy before me to the treddy collapsed and they hauled him to St. Luke's, so I know his MHR was very low. That MHR deficient heart can maybe be raised but I doubt exercise will do it. Now my exercise HR can be raised maybe, but my experience is, with a known daily input of exercise, my exercise HR came down. When I started tredding, it was 10 min at 2 mph and got me breathing heavy. I did that to warm up for weight machines. When the gym closed I got a treddy and in 6 months I was doing 3 miles - 3 mph at 10 % slope - HR 61. That amount of exercise keeps my BP reasonable and by my def that's the extent of my need for medical or LE. Actually my doc says 30 min per day. Now the question that's important (to me anyway) is WHY would I want to race anyone? Certainly not to extend lifespan. Using more calories seems unreasonable. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Novick Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:55 AM Subject: RE: [ ] Maximum heart rate Part of the confusion may be semantics but are we talking about true absolute MHR or observed/tested relative MHR?For instance, many factors may influence the "relative" maximum amount of weight someone can lift on a day, or their "relatvie" maximum speed they can run in a day, but they wont change the "absolute" maximum of weight or speed the person can ultimately acheive. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 I find this attention to max HRT something for those with too much time on their hands (who me?) and of minimal relevance to CR other than the natural expectation that if CR slows aging it could also slow the decline of max Hrt. I find " relative " a bit confusing. In the context of V02max " relative " relates that metric to body mass. I'm not aware of any such relationship wrt max HRT. The problem here may be more of definition. In my understanding max heart rate is a natural or physical limit that the heart is capable of when fully involved. The observed hrt that we experience during extreme or maximal workouts is better characterized as a peak heart rate for that given activity. This observed peak will by definition be less than the absolute physical limit due to variations in how many of our muscle groups are involved, conditions, etc. As previously noted this is of some value during high performance athletic training (and perhaps for selling HRT monitors) but IMO listening to your body should be adequate for setting reasonable effort levels when exercising. I suspect the simple but not very accurate age equation was probably popularized by commercial interests to give people something to do with their expensive HRT monitors.:-) JR -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Novick [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Jeff Novick Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:56 AM Subject: RE: [ ] Maximum heart rate Part of the confusion may be semantics but are we talking about true absolute MHR or observed/tested relative MHR? For instance, many factors may influence the " relative " maximum amount of weight someone can lift on a day, or their " relatvie " maximum speed they can run in a day, but they wont change the " absolute " maximum of weight or speed the person can ultimately acheive. Jeff ________________________________ From: on behalf of Don White Sent: Wed 7/6/05 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Maximum heart rate MHR can and does change, sometimes day to day. Factors that are involved are humidity at the time of determination, oxygen level in the air at the time of determination, levels of carbon monoxide in the air at the time of determination, heart chamber size, of the person in question, glycogen levels in the muscles, all of which will have a factor in how fast your heart can beat. This doesn't include the levels of potassium and calcium in the blood. As these become lower, the hearts ability to contract fast is diminished. Most of these factors will also impact the resting heart rate. A runner with 10% body fat may have a lower resting heart rate than a weight lifter with 2% body fat. The first increases heart chamber size, the second increases the muscle thickness of the heart. Part of the adaptive process, the weight lifter's heart has to beat against levels of high blood pressure, the runner's does not. I hope everyone had a great 4th. Warmest regards, Don White Seguin, Tx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2005 Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 Hi Jeff When I wrote " The suggestion that it is being confused with VO2Max, I can assure you that it is not as regards the reply from Polar, nor is it being confused with max heart rate ACHIEVED during workouts. " : The reason I can be sure is that I emailed back specifically to make sure I had understood what they were saying, after a similar conversation with Diane. They, Polar, clearly believe that it can be changed and will differ according to ones chosen sport. I am inclined to believe that too, though perhaps not enough to spend too much time thinking about. Of course, that's not to say there isn't an element of them having a vested interest in people thinking that since they sell products for measuring their own calculation of HRmax and VO2max. I'm sure they could also simply be wrong, just as there are many that state that HRmax can't change who could equally be wrong. Using " The Physiology of Deep Water Running as a Training Program " , Hamer and Morton (1990), Polar quote: 'Significant increases in VO2max and O2pulse occurred in the DWR group that were not found in the control group. Significant decreases occurred in HRmax of the DWR group compared to the control.' http://physiotherapy.curtin.edu.au/resources/educational- resources/exphys/00/deep_water.cfm Since trying to track down the truth, I now know that for me at least, any changes to HRmax will be small, so it's more of an academic question. Still it would be nice to have an answer. Regards, Gay --- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@p...> wrote: > How is that you can be so sure of what some one else is saying, or implying just from a written response and be so sure that they cant be mistaken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Athletes can hang in that 80-90% range for up to an hour. So, if you're in good shape it's not all that weird or alarming. My question to you would be how did you feel? If you were totally dying for the entire 20 minutes, gasping for air and barely able to continue, you might want to drop it down a notch. If you felt fine (challenging workout, breathing hard, dripping sweat, really pushing it on the " 10s " but recovering ok afterward) then reducing your intensity just so that the numbers look a certain way isn't necessarily going to help your workouts. Here's something I've posted before about heart rates. The idea of the 20-minute solution cardio in the book is to train your heart through all of the ranges, including flirting with your max heart rate for the " 10 " . When I hit a 10 I'm giving it 110% literally! LOL ~~~ Heart rate formulas have never worked for me. Those formulas are just estimates, and for a lot of people, especially older athletes in crazy shape, they're just flat out wrong. According to my heart rate monitor, when I'm hitting a 10 at around 200 bpm (considerably higher than my estimated " maximum " of 182), I should be dead, or at the very least on my way to the emergency room. I'm not, I'm flying along at top speed, grinning like an idiot, and feeling great... you know, right up until the lack of oxygen and lactic acid build-up hits me. :-) Unless you've been put on a treadmill and given a stress test by a doctor, you have no idea what your maximum heart rate really is. You're probably better off going by perceived exertion. Maybe walking fast feels like a 5 to you and running full speed on a step mill feels like a 10. If it's a 10, it's totally anaerobic and you can only maintain it for a few seconds. If you're staying in a comfortable zone, if you feel like you could go faster or keep doing it longer, you're definitely not hitting a 10. Here are some things to read: Heart Rate Zones http://www.skwigg.com/id10.html Maximum Heart Rate Formula is Wrong http://www.drmirkin.com/fitness/9156.html ~~~ Now, having said that, I should definitely add a disclaimer. Consider your fitness level and medical history before running your heart up as fast as it goes. If you have any doubts, get cleared for takeoff by your doctor. On 10/20/05, <savanah_7@...> wrote: > well..i just got a heart rate monitor...i have been exercising > (weights/cardio) for a long time...during my HIIT yesterday, I noticed > that my heart rate remained above 85% for nearly the entire > time...mostly averaging 92%...dropping to the upper to mid eighties > for my lower level intervals...is this bad??...from what I've read, > one shouldn't remain in this high zone...note...my resting heart rate > is usually aroung 54 or so...thanks > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 I have to say I hardly ever workout without my HRM, I think I am addicted to the numbers. I have found when I was taking a supplement to give me energy my heart rate was very high, and would be sweating buckets, it was kinda scary. Are you taking any kind of fat-loss supplements or any thing to give you energy? The time of day and stress plays into your heart-rate also. Pam --- <savanah_7@...> wrote: > well..i just got a heart rate monitor...i have been exercising > (weights/cardio) for a long time...during my HIIT yesterday, I noticed > that my heart rate remained above 85% for nearly the entire > time...mostly averaging 92%...dropping to the upper to mid eighties > for my lower level intervals...is this bad??...from what I've read, > one shouldn't remain in this high zone...note...my resting heart rate > is usually aroung 54 or so...thanks > > > > > > > __________________________________ - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 > > well..i just got a heart rate monitor...i have been exercising > (weights/cardio) for a long time...during my HIIT yesterday, I noticed > that my heart rate remained above 85% for nearly the entire > time...mostly averaging 92%...dropping to the upper to mid eighties > for my lower level intervals...is this bad??...from what I've read, > one shouldn't remain in this high zone...note...my resting heart rate > is usually aroung 54 or so...thanks > Take this with a grain of salt and just my two cents on the subject, but I don't bother with heart monitors at all. I'm healthy and get great results without them. BFL is made to be simple and that just complicates it too much for me Colleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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