Re: National Weight Control Registry

[Guest guest]

Al asks about PMID: 9550162: " Low-fat diets are too frequently held in

low regard among us? "

Many CRoners have Zone-like maintenance diets (30%P, 30%F, 40%C)

because as you cut out non-essential carb calories, the proportion of

protein and fat gets bigger. Here is a quote from the abstract of

PMID 9550162 about the Registry:

" RESULTS: Successful maintainers of weight loss reported continued

consumption of a low-energy and low-fat diet. Women in the registry

reported eating an average of 1,306 kcal/day (24.3% of energy from

fat); men reported consuming 1,685 kcal (23.5% of energy from fat). "

Notice that the caloric intake of the " maintainers " in the Registry is

lower than that of many CRoners. 1,685 calories for men! That is 25%

CR or more for a moderately active guy of average height!

I suspect that the Registry people are still overweight, losing

weight, and not in a steady-state. Such low caloric intakes can only

be supported by burning excess body fat. The 24% Fat, low calorie

diet may be good as a weight-loss diet, but not as a maintenance diet.

Tony

--- In , Al Pater <old542000@y...>

wrote:

> Hi All,

>

> See the not, except for the free full-text to all third paper, pdf-

> available below four excerpts of abstracts from Medline.

>

> The first paper concludes, " Because continued consumption of a

low-fat, low-

> energy diet may be necessary for long-term weight control, persons

who have

> successfully lost weight should be encouraged to maintain such a

diet. "

>

> Low-fat diets are too frequently held in low regard among us?

>

> Shick SM, Wing RR, Klem ML, McGuire MT, Hill JO, Seagle H.

> Persons successful at long-term weight loss and maintenance

continue to

> consume a low-energy, low-fat diet.

> J Am Diet Assoc. 1998 Apr;98(4):408-13.

> PMID: 9550162

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=9550162 & query_hl=15

>

[Guest guest]

I was under the impression that recent mouse studies using yeast and

sugar pointed to either limiting fat or protein (they're not sure

which) to enhance CR.

http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=

get-document & doi=10.1371/journal.pbio.0030237

or

http://tinyurl.com/bfdde

I thought 30% fat might be too great. Has there been any consensus

among CRers about what the ideal P/F/C ratio should be?

I'm still tweaking ny diet. I find it difficult to reduce fat below

30% unless I increase the protein. Increasing carbs above 50% doesn't

cut it for me.

Diane

> > Hi All,

> >

> > See the not, except for the free full-text to all third paper,

pdf-

> > available below four excerpts of abstracts from Medline.

> >

> > The first paper concludes, " Because continued consumption of a

> low-fat, low-

> > energy diet may be necessary for long-term weight control, persons

> who have

> > successfully lost weight should be encouraged to maintain such a

> diet. "

> >

> > Low-fat diets are too frequently held in low regard among us?

> >

> > Shick SM, Wing RR, Klem ML, McGuire MT, Hill JO, Seagle H.

> > Persons successful at long-term weight loss and maintenance

> continue to

> > consume a low-energy, low-fat diet.

> > J Am Diet Assoc. 1998 Apr;98(4):408-13.

> > PMID: 9550162

> >

> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> > cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=9550162 & query_hl=15

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane:

The authors of that study are already well on their way to figuring

out the relative importance of protein restriction and fat

restriction. They are doing it with chemically defined diets. They

are hoping their paper may be published by year end this year. A

good one to look out for, I think.

(Also looking forward to the Mattson one-meal-a-day-in-early-evening

study. If anyone sees it please post about it.)

Rodney.

> > > Hi All,

> > >

> > > See the not, except for the free full-text to all third paper,

> pdf-

> > > available below four excerpts of abstracts from Medline.

> > >

> > > The first paper concludes, " Because continued consumption of a

> > low-fat, low-

> > > energy diet may be necessary for long-term weight control,

persons

> > who have

> > > successfully lost weight should be encouraged to maintain such a

> > diet. "

> > >

> > > Low-fat diets are too frequently held in low regard among us?

> > >

> > > Shick SM, Wing RR, Klem ML, McGuire MT, Hill JO, Seagle H.

> > > Persons successful at long-term weight loss and maintenance

> > continue to

> > > consume a low-energy, low-fat diet.

> > > J Am Diet Assoc. 1998 Apr;98(4):408-13.

> > > PMID: 9550162

> > >

> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

> > >

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=9550162 & query_hl=15

> > >

[Guest guest]

>>I suspect that the Registry people are still overweight, losing

weight, and not in a steady-state. Such low caloric intakes can only be

supported by burning excess body fat. The 24% Fat, low calorie diet may

be good as a weight-loss diet, but not as a maintenance diet.

The avergae BMI when starting their weight loss regime was 35, and now

it is 25-27, so many have achieved their weight maintainece level. But

of the apparent discrepancy is that people often under estimate their

caloric intake and the typical formulas (like HB) are inaccurate and

often overestimate caloric need sometimes as much as 30%.

As the WHO said in 11/03, they see no need advantage in increasing fat

content over 15-20% in those populations who already follow such a diet.

Except for recent times, I am not sure how anyone could have consumed a

regular diet that was over 20% fat. There is some published data (that I

will post) where they try to estimate the fat content of the ancestral

diet and the estimate is at most, around 20%. Wild game is low fat

(5-15%), plant foods are also around 3-18%, except for nuts, seeds and

avocados, which were rare if available at all. There was no other

concentrated forms of fat. Yes, there is the exception here and there

of tribes that have had higher fat content, (and of those who also had

lower fat content) but on average, how would you get over 20%.

The healthiest diet to me would be one which the fat content is around

15-20%, 15-20% protein and 60-70% carb. I would consider the the excess

calories from protein, and fat, above and beyond the needed levels of

the essential nutrients (plus maybe a little extra for a rainy day) as

" non essential " and not the calories from carb as non essential.

Jeff

[Guest guest]

>>Except for recent times, I am not sure how anyone could have consumed

a regular diet that was over 20% fat. There is some published data (that

I will post) where they try to estimate the fat content of the ancestral

diet and the estimate is at most, around 20%.

Simopoulos AP. Evolutionary aspects of diet: fatty acids, insulin

resistance and obesity. Obesity:

new directions in assessment and management. Philadelphia:

Press, 1995:241-61.

World Rev Nutr Diet. 2003;92:1-22. Importance of the ratio of

omega-6/omega-3 essential fatty acids: evolutionary aspects.

Simopoulos AP.

Simopoulos AP. Evolutionary aspects of diet and essential fatty acids.

World Rev Nutr Diet. 2001;88:18-27.