Re: Pritikin Article

July 25, 2005

Good and funny article. If only my husband (who needs to lose about 30 pounds) would read it and heed it. What I didn't know was that the Pritikin diet doesn't allow any nuts. We eat a few mixed unsalted nuts daily, as recommended by Walford. Of course we limit our intake to 6 or so various kinds of nuts (almonds, Brazils, hazels for example) because they're high in calories, but they are nutritionally dense. Also a favorite snack of mine is allfruit spead and a bit of (pure, unsalted) nut butter on a tiny piece of whole wheat pita bread. Any comments bout nuts Jeff?

on 7/25/2005 1:40 PM, Jeff Novick at jnovick@... wrote:

A somewhat humerous article by a comunist from the Guardians experience at our center recently..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1533541,00.html <http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1533541,00.html>

Jeff

July 25, 2005

Hi Jeff:

Great article. LOL!!! The best line of the piece for me was

the: " Jeff's rule was simple, if spartan: if you pick up any food

and it has a label on it, put it back. "

Rodney.

--- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@p...>

wrote:

> A somewhat humerous article by a comunist from the Guardians

experience

> at our center recently..

>

> http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1533541,00.html

>

<http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1533541,00.html>

>

> Jeff

July 25, 2005

Jeff: besides the nut question I have another one. What is the relapse rate when people leave the sanctity of the Pritikin Center? I imagine it's difficult to stick to such spartan fare when one returns to the temptations of normal life. OTOH, most of your clients have an extra incentive such as STAYING ALIVE, rather than dying of obesity or CVD. Often after a heart episode or a scare, people will reform.

on 7/25/2005 3:37 PM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote:

Hi Jeff:

Great article. LOL!!! The best line of the piece for me was

the: " Jeff's rule was simple, if spartan: if you pick up any food

and it has a label on it, put it back. "

Rodney.

July 25, 2005

>> Any comments bout nuts Jeff?

We allow (and recommend) Nuts but they are extremely calorie dense, so we ask people to limit them to no more than 1 to 2 oz a day and if they eat them to conusme them along with other foods that are much lower in calorie density, so they dont feel hungry after eating the nuts (ie, nuts on a bow of fruit, or a salad, or some oatmeal)

Also, we recently interviewed Walford for an article that we wrote on Longevity. If you would like, I can post a link also.

Regardsjeff

July 25, 2005

I read and enjoyed the piece too but would observe that it was an entertainment piece rather than

strict medical advice and we may not be the target audience for some of that discussion. I found

it instructive that it took several days for the taste perceptions to change, I have several friends

that would benefit from a few weeks at that spa but aren't likely to attend for sundry reasons.

I fear that our cave man wiring biases us to pay far more attention to immediate risks and delegates

less urgent dangers, like metabolic syndrome to a secondary consideration. Then as our cave man

wiring gets routinely over-stimulated by the news threat du jour, personal health rarely gets the

attention it deserves. Enforced attention like in a SPA environment will maintain that focus long

enough to hopefully take root.Two weeks is probably a minimal effective period for behavior mod.

The cost is probably an added motivation for some to succeed. People don't value free advice very

highly (especially from me :-).

I personally noted the vilification of salt. While I am far from the typical "rat", I ran 5 miles earlier

today, in MS, in July. I have added improved sleep efficiency (more rest in less rack time) to

the short list of perceived personal benefits from drinking salt water (2G salt) before retiring (sorry JW).

I doubt the typical spa guest was at risk of inadequate electrolyte intake, but if you go completely

off the processed food teat (no labels), and exercise aerobically in summer heat, hydration and electrolyte

levels are worthy of some attention.

JR

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Francesca SkeltonSent: Monday, July 25, 2005 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Pritikin ArticleGood and funny article. If only my husband (who needs to lose about 30 pounds) would read it and heed it. What I didn't know was that the Pritikin diet doesn't allow any nuts. We eat a few mixed unsalted nuts daily, as recommended by Walford. Of course we limit our intake to 6 or so various kinds of nuts (almonds, Brazils, hazels for example) because they're high in calories, but they are nutritionally dense. Also a favorite snack of mine is allfruit spead and a bit of (pure, unsalted) nut butter on a tiny piece of whole wheat pita bread. Any comments bout nuts Jeff? on 7/25/2005 1:40 PM, Jeff Novick at jnovick@... wrote:

A somewhat humerous article by a comunist from the Guardians experience at our center recently..http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1533541,00.html <http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1533541,00.html> Jeff

July 25, 2005

>> I read and enjoyed the piece too but would observe that it was an entertainment piece rather than

strict medical advice and we may not be the target audience for some of that discussion.

Agreed and as presented.

>>I doubt the typical spa guest was at risk of inadequate electrolyte intake, but if you go completely

off the processed food teat (no labels), and exercise aerobically in summer heat, hydration and electrolyte

levels are worthy of some attention.

I am not sure I will count... "exercising aerobically in the summer heat" as "healthy" however, in response to the comment, which we often get,...

Doesn’t a Low-Sodium Diet Lead to Hyponatremia in Athletes?

Sweat typically contains about 1 gram of salt or 400 mg of sodium per liter and there have been cases of sodium depletion or hyponatremia in endurance athletes even consuming a fairly high salt intake (10-15 gm/day). This has led some to speculate that a low-salt diet could be dangerous for athletes or anyone who is sweating profusely in a hot, humid environment. Although it is not well recognized, the human sweat glands are quite capable of conserving sodium and chloride when the diet is low in salt. A study at the University of Michigan found that men who lost an average of 7 liters of sweat daily, doing several hours of intense exercise in a hot, humid environment were, nonetheless, able to maintain normal sodium levels on just .75 gm of salt (300 mg of sodium) per day.[127] The historian Hanneman (Salt Institute president) apparently overlooked this historic study when he suggested that a low-salt diet could be dangerous.

The human body adapts to a low-salt intake by reducing salt in sweat and in the urine. In Dr. Conn’s study the men acclimatized to a very low-salt diet had sweat that contained only 40 mg of Na/L and their kidneys excreted just 20 mg Na/day. The Yanomamo Indians of the tropical rain forest of South America do not develop hyponatremia despite a sodium intake of less than 200 mg/day, an active lifestyle, and an average daily temperature of 100+ degrees Fahrenheit.[128] This suggests that hyponatremia in athletes could be due in part to a high-salt intake. This is because it takes a week or more for the body to fully adapt to a very-low-salt intake. If athletes consume large quantities of fluid without salt but are not adapted to a low salt intake their sweat will still contain a lot of salt and after several hours of profuse sweating they can become salt depleted to the point where hyponatremia develops. The irritation of dried salt on the skin of athletes could be significantly reduced if they consumed a very-low-salt diet.

[127] Conn JW. The mechanism of acclimatization to heat. Adv Intern Med 1949;3:373-93.

[128] Oliver WJ, Cohen EL, Neel JV. Blood pressure, sodium intake, and sodium related hormones in the Yanomamo Indians, a "no-salt" culture. Circulation 1975;52:146-51.

July 25, 2005

--- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@p...>

wrote:

>

> Also, we recently interviewed Walford for an article that we

wrote

> on Longevity. If you would like, I can post a link also.

Jeff,

I thoroughly enjoyed the article, too. And I would love seeing the

Walford interview.

Thanks,

Diane

July 25, 2005

>

> Pritikin diet doesn't allow any nuts. We eat a few mixed unsalted

nuts

> daily, as recommended by Walford. Of course we limit our intake to

6 or so

> various kinds of nuts (almonds, Brazils, hazels for example)

because they're

> high in calories, but they are nutritionally dense. Also a

favorite snack

> of mine is allfruit spead and a bit of (pure, unsalted) nut butter

on a tiny

> piece of whole wheat pita bread. Any comments bout nuts Jeff?

Hi All,

See:

http://www.pritikin.com/pritikin/pritikin_EatingPlan.shtml

WHAT IS PRITIKIN?

Pritikin Eating Plan

Making optimal food choices is an integral part of maintaining a

healthy lifestyle.

.... Choose at least five servings of unrefined complex carbohydrates:

.... Avocados, raw or dry roasted unsalted nuts and seeds: e.g.

walnuts, flaxseeds, almonds, pumpkin seeds, pecans, pistachios,

sunflower seeds, filberts (hazelnuts), peanuts, cashews and macadamia

nuts. Limit to 2 oz (1/4 cup) daily.

July 26, 2005

Thanks for the article... While I'm not an expert on salt issues I have become an interested student due to some

personal issues with water/electrolyte balance. I'm not sure that I buy the suggestion that low salt intake can be

simply adapted to in a matter of weeks. I have been pretty active for decades, with salt intake dropping gradually

over the last several years as my diet evolved into it's present state of almost zero "labels". I am clearly free of

the high sodium/ processed foods treadmill. However only over the last few months have I experienced symptoms

that were mitigated by my supplementation of sodium, a simple dilute salt water before retiring (2G salt/150G water).

For the example given of the Yanomamo Indians, I'm inclined to suspect evolutionary pressure at play that may

have favored a stingy salt gene. A recent article about uber- athletes observed that Mia Hamm, the well known

football/soccer player loses only 50% (from memory so may not be exact amount) of the normal amount of

electrolyte to sweat as other similar athletes. My recollection is that the article presented this difference as a

genetic advantage rather than training acquired adaptation.

I suspect my body was doing it's best to deal with my personal imbalance but I experienced night time cramping,

and and apparently increased urinary voiding (no doubt trying to maintain electrolyte balance). A couple of G per

day of simple salt made a huge difference for me. FWIW I also have rather low BP and wouldn't be concerned if that

increased some due to salt supplementation but it hasn't. While I do not advocate others doing what I do,

moderate in the context of exercise is somewhat subjective. I share my experience for those still operating under

the general paradigm that any amount of salt is bad. Unless you're a Yanomamo Indian you can get too little salt.

Do do what I say, not necessarily what I do. Be well and moderate.

JR

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ]On Behalf Of Jeff NovickSent: Monday, July 25, 2005 3:14 PM Subject: RE: [ ] Pritikin Article

>> I read and enjoyed the piece too but would observe that it was an entertainment piece rather than

strict medical advice and we may not be the target audience for some of that discussion.

Agreed and as presented.

>>I doubt the typical spa guest was at risk of inadequate electrolyte intake, but if you go completely

off the processed food teat (no labels), and exercise aerobically in summer heat, hydration and electrolyte

levels are worthy of some attention.

I am not sure I will count... "exercising aerobically in the summer heat" as "healthy" however, in response to the comment, which we often get,...

Doesn’t a Low-Sodium Diet Lead to Hyponatremia in Athletes?

Sweat typically contains about 1 gram of salt or 400 mg of sodium per liter and there have been cases of sodium depletion or hyponatremia in endurance athletes even consuming a fairly high salt intake (10-15 gm/day). This has led some to speculate that a low-salt diet could be dangerous for athletes or anyone who is sweating profusely in a hot, humid environment. Although it is not well recognized, the human sweat glands are quite capable of conserving sodium and chloride when the diet is low in salt. A study at the University of Michigan found that men who lost an average of 7 liters of sweat daily, doing several hours of intense exercise in a hot, humid environment were, nonetheless, able to maintain normal sodium levels on just .75 gm of salt (300 mg of sodium) per day.[127] The historian Hanneman (Salt Institute president) apparently overlooked this historic study when he suggested that a low-salt diet could be dangerous.

The human body adapts to a low-salt intake by reducing salt in sweat and in the urine. In Dr. Conn’s study the men acclimatized to a very low-salt diet had sweat that contained only 40 mg of Na/L and their kidneys excreted just 20 mg Na/day. The Yanomamo Indians of the tropical rain forest of South America do not develop hyponatremia despite a sodium intake of less than 200 mg/day, an active lifestyle, and an average daily temperature of 100+ degrees Fahrenheit.[128] This suggests that hyponatremia in athletes could be due in part to a high-salt intake. This is because it takes a week or more for the body to fully adapt to a very-low-salt intake. If athletes consume large quantities of fluid without salt but are not adapted to a low salt intake their sweat will still contain a lot of salt and after several hours of profuse sweating they can become salt depleted to the point where hyponatremia develops. The irritation of dried salt on the skin of athletes could be significantly reduced if they consumed a very-low-salt diet.

[127] Conn JW. The mechanism of acclimatization to heat. Adv Intern Med 1949;3:373-93.

[128] Oliver WJ, Cohen EL, Neel JV. Blood pressure, sodium intake, and sodium related hormones in the Yanomamo Indians, a "no-salt" culture. Circulation 1975;52:146-51.

July 26, 2005

Hi Jeff:

And I imagine that almost all of the Pritikin attendees are in weight-

loss mode. But once they have achieved their desired weight and

revert to maintenance mode, then caloric intake would rise a little

and nuts could be part of that?

Rodney.

--- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@p...>

wrote:

> >> Any comments bout nuts Jeff?

>

> We allow (and recommend) Nuts but they are extremely calorie dense,

so

> we ask people to limit them to no more than 1 to 2 oz a day and if

> they eat them to conusme them along with other foods that are much

lower

> in calorie density, so they dont feel hungry after eating the nuts

(ie,

> nuts on a bow of fruit, or a salad, or some oatmeal)

>

> Also, we recently interviewed Walford for an article that we

wrote

> on Longevity. If you would like, I can post a link also.

>

> Regards

> jeff

July 26, 2005

>>And I imagine that almost all of the Pritikin attendees are in weight-

loss mode.

Most are these days. In fact, while we all know the national numbers, I am

amazed at how many of the clients are now dealing with weight issues, which

wasnt always the case, and how heavy they have become.

>> But once they have achieved their desired weight and

revert to maintenance mode, then caloric intake would rise a little

and nuts could be part of that?

Sure. What the author meant was there were no nuts or seeds out at the center,

not that we dont allow them. Most all the food at the center is available in

" buffet " style (except for the animal protein), so if we were to put nuts/seeds

out, the clients would easily over consume them. We used to put raisins out at

the breakfast bar, and people just gorged on them.

jeff

July 26, 2005

Thanks for the suggestion but wouldn't that defeat the purpose? I repeat

I am not an expert but I did stay in a Holiday Inn once. I believe the

mechanism I am trying to normalize is the system that manages cellular

water balance through modulation of the salinity of the liquid bath

surrounding the cells (osmotic pressure and all that). Even those obscure

Indians needed " some " salt to live. I've looked at " ringers solution "

as a possible model were I inclined to tweak, but I'm not so inclined

and salt which makes up the bulk of it works very adequately alone.

Sometimes the simple solution is the right one. Of course I could drink

less coffee,tea,beer eat- less fruit and vegetables, and stop running in

heat and humidity, but that ain't living brudda. I'll save my

" micromanagement " for managing the microprocessor program I'm working

on right now. :-)

JR

-----Original Message-----

From:

[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Rodney

Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 8:37 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Pritikin Article

Hi JR:

For someone who believes they need the additional sodium, is there a

way to get it without the chlorine component? Hydroxide would NOT be

good!!!

Or might there also be a problem with chloride deficiency?

Rodney.

>

> A somewhat humerous article by a comunist from the Guardians

experience

> at our center recently..

>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1533541,00.html

> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1533541,00.html>

>

> Jeff

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

--------

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

--------

> --

> ! GROUPS LINKS

>

> a.. Visit your group " " on the web.

>

> b..

July 27, 2005

2 G of salt is not all that much sodium (ha). I guess you mean 2 G of sodium.

But even that is not that much when you sweat a lot running.

Low sodium is just to avoid the HTN pills. I suspect most people who run a lot don't have essential HTN.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From:

Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 2:58 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] Pritikin Article