newbie - my plan, and a few questions

[Guest guest]

Hey all. I'm glad I've found this group--searching through the

archives has answered a lot of my questions and helped me refine my

diet plan quite a bit. I've been researching CR for the past 3/4

months, and now I think I'm ready to dive in...I'd greatly

appreciate everybody's opinions about my diet plan. Any extra

advice/pointers would be much appreciated as well!

But first, some background on me: I am a 21-year-old female, 5'7 "

currently at 125 lbs (down from 140 lbs 4 months ago, when I started

looking into CRON), about 18-20% bf (down from 22-24%). I'm

currently eating about 1,500-1,600 cals/day, mostly fruits,

vegetables, raw nuts, some whole grain, some fish, and the

occasional bit of cake, white bread, pasta, and dairy (working on

cutting those out). I'm not consciously trying to diet or lose

weight; my dietary shift just kind of happened on its own once I

started reading more about CR.

Anyways, now on to my diet plan...

Breakfast:

About 230 cals worth of high-antioxidant fruit, preferably berries

(this works out to 1 lb of blueberries, 3 large oranges, 1

pineapple, etc.) over a bed of lettuce (about 6-10 oz worth) or with

a side of 1/2 lb raw veggies of choice.

With breakfast, I will also have one huge jug (about 42 oz worth, or

5 cups) of green and/or white tea, sweetened with stevia and a bit

of pomegranate juice (I know that even green tea is kinda

controversial, but hey, I enjoy it--a lot.)

Lunch:

1 large head/1 lb of lettuce or other dark leafy salad greens, with

1/2 lb veggies of choice and 1 oz of nuts blended with low-sodium

v8, vinegar, and spices to make a dressing

Dinner:

1/2 lb of non-starchy veggies (cooked), mixed with a protein

source. For protein, I will alternate between fish (mainly salmon,

trout, shrimp, and sardines--4 oz worth) and tofu (1 entire

package/12 oz of lite extra firm). For extra flavor, I'll sometimes

use low-sodium tomato sauce, pineapple juice, and lite soy sauce.

Then, I'll drizzle the whole thing with 2 tsp. of flax oil.

Finally, all of this will be dumped over 1 lb of greens. For

variety, I'll also occasionally add in shiratake noodles (40

calories for about 2 C worth).

According to my calculations, this works out to...

1,200 cals/day (about 67% CR)

Protein: 60g/day (20% of cals), from fish and soy

Fat: 27-30g/day (20-25% of cals), from nuts and flax oil

Carbs: remainder of cals, from fruits and veggies

Exercise plan...

4 days a week, it will look like this:

20 minutes of treadmill jogging with hand weights

15 minutes of weight lifting, working 2 opposing muscle groups a day

(hams/quads, chest/back, biceps/triceps, shoulders/abs)

15 minutes of some other cardio activity (such as much-beloved and

truly addictive stairmaster)

In addition, 1 day a week will be a " free day " , in which I'll be

able to do whatever I want--the only requirement is that I'll have

to exercise for about 45-50 minutes. I'll probably take a dance

class for this.

This all works out to roughly 4 hours a week, with weekends off =)

Now for my questions...

1. I need to supplement b-12 and D, sure, but according to my

FitDay software, everything else is covered @ 110% RDA or more.

Would I benefit from extra supplementation?

2. In particular, would I benefit from a DHA (fish oil) supplement--

even though (I'm pretty sure) my diet provides enough? Does more =

better?

3. Any real drawbacks to green tea, besides caffeine?

4. Should I be worried about the lack of protein in my breakfast

meal? How many here believe in Zone-style meal-balancing, where all

3 macronutrients are consumed at each meal?

[Guest guest]

Kayla: welcome to the group!

Sounds like you have a good plan. I only have a couple of suggestions.

You've already lost a considerable amount of weight in a very short time and without even trying. I would suggest you slow down, take your time (esp since you're so young) and lose any more weight very slowly. This is not a race. At 5'7 " and 125, you're already on the slim side.

When you say you eat a head of lettuce " , I would suggest (assuming you mean iceberg) to nix that and use romaine or other greens with more nutrition.

As for supplements, if you're getting enough from food, you're just wasting your money and more is not necessarily better.

on 7/19/2005 9:01 PM, Kayla Sherer at kbsherer@... wrote:

Hey all. I'm glad I've found this group--searching through the

archives has answered a lot of my questions and helped me refine my

diet plan quite a bit. I've been researching CR for the past 3/4

months, and now I think I'm ready to dive in...I'd greatly

appreciate everybody's opinions about my diet plan. Any extra

advice/pointers would be much appreciated as well!

[Guest guest]

I don't stress weight loss below nominal. IMO, it's about calories not weight loss. I don't know where you plan to go with your, weight, but 140 # was not all that high for 5'7" female.

At one time my wife was a perfect 145# in shape at 5' 5.5 ". Find the lowest calorie intake for your activity, that doesn't drop weight below your ideal weight first.

If I don't get eat enough protein, I lose weight. On the high end, I don't want to burn protein for energy.

As far as how to eat it, there are as many answers as we have people doing CR. Everyone does it diff. I eat a 350 kcal breakfast, about 1200 lunch and 450 supper. But I usually snack too. I easily maintain 178# with 1800 kcals and do about 400 kcals exercise (walk) 4 times per week, plus other outside chores. I'm more laid back in my approach now, since I lost from 234# already.

I like the low fat approach and I'm looking at LA/ALA ratios and Fish oil right now. I believe now that LA is a very necessary thing in a low fat diet, and I also believe I'll get my EPA/DHA from fish oil. I like the choice of sardines because they have AA also. It may be the ratio in sardines is the right ratio for AA/EPA.

Don't forget to keep your doctor informed, get regular blood tests, etc.

Regards.

----- Original Message -----

From: Kayla Sherer

Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 8:01 PM

Subject: [ ] newbie - my plan, and a few questions

Hey all. I'm glad I've found this group--searching through the archives has answered a lot of my questions and helped me refine my diet plan quite a bit. I've been researching CR for the past 3/4 months, and now I think I'm ready to dive in...I'd greatly appreciate everybody's opinions about my diet plan. Any extra advice/pointers would be much appreciated as well!But first, some background on me: I am a 21-year-old female, 5'7" currently at 125 lbs (down from 140 lbs 4 months ago, when I started looking into CRON), about 18-20% bf (down from 22-24%). I'm currently eating about 1,500-1,600 cals/day, mostly fruits, vegetables, raw nuts, some whole grain, some fish, and the occasional bit of cake, white bread, pasta, and dairy (working on cutting those out). I'm not consciously trying to diet or lose weight; my dietary shift just kind of happened on its own once I started reading more about CR. Anyways, now on to my diet plan...Breakfast:About 230 cals worth of high-antioxidant fruit, preferably berries (this works out to 1 lb of blueberries, 3 large oranges, 1 pineapple, etc.) over a bed of lettuce (about 6-10 oz worth) or with a side of 1/2 lb raw veggies of choice.With breakfast, I will also have one huge jug (about 42 oz worth, or 5 cups) of green and/or white tea, sweetened with stevia and a bit of pomegranate juice (I know that even green tea is kinda controversial, but hey, I enjoy it--a lot.)Lunch:1 large head/1 lb of lettuce or other dark leafy salad greens, with 1/2 lb veggies of choice and 1 oz of nuts blended with low-sodium v8, vinegar, and spices to make a dressingDinner:1/2 lb of non-starchy veggies (cooked), mixed with a protein source. For protein, I will alternate between fish (mainly salmon, trout, shrimp, and sardines--4 oz worth) and tofu (1 entire package/12 oz of lite extra firm). For extra flavor, I'll sometimes use low-sodium tomato sauce, pineapple juice, and lite soy sauce. Then, I'll drizzle the whole thing with 2 tsp. of flax oil. Finally, all of this will be dumped over 1 lb of greens. For variety, I'll also occasionally add in shiratake noodles (40 calories for about 2 C worth).According to my calculations, this works out to... 1,200 cals/day (about 67% CR) Protein: 60g/day (20% of cals), from fish and soy Fat: 27-30g/day (20-25% of cals), from nuts and flax oil Carbs: remainder of cals, from fruits and veggies Exercise plan...4 days a week, it will look like this:20 minutes of treadmill jogging with hand weights15 minutes of weight lifting, working 2 opposing muscle groups a day (hams/quads, chest/back, biceps/triceps, shoulders/abs)15 minutes of some other cardio activity (such as much-beloved and truly addictive stairmaster)In addition, 1 day a week will be a "free day", in which I'll be able to do whatever I want--the only requirement is that I'll have to exercise for about 45-50 minutes. I'll probably take a dance class for this.This all works out to roughly 4 hours a week, with weekends off =)Now for my questions...1. I need to supplement b-12 and D, sure, but according to my FitDay software, everything else is covered @ 110% RDA or more. Would I benefit from extra supplementation?2. In particular, would I benefit from a DHA (fish oil) supplement--even though (I'm pretty sure) my diet provides enough? Does more = better?3. Any real drawbacks to green tea, besides caffeine? 4. Should I be worried about the lack of protein in my breakfast meal? How many here believe in Zone-style meal-balancing, where all 3 macronutrients are consumed at each meal?

[Guest guest]

>>>1. I need to supplement b-12 and D, sure, but according to my

FitDay software, everything else is covered @ 110% RDA or more.

Would I benefit from extra supplementation?

I dont see why you need a B-12 supplement if you are consuming some animal

protein every day. While D may not show up in Fitday, the best source is

sunlight.

>> In particular, would I benefit from a DHA (fish oil) supplement--

even though (I'm pretty sure) my diet provides enough? Does more =

better?

More= better is kinda contrary to CR-ON. If you are consuming omega 3 rich

fish, and eating lots of veggies, than you will be getting lots of Omega 3s and

also EPA and DHA from food. You can occasionally analysis your diet to see how

it is doing. Fitday is good and free but has some limitations. The USDA

Database is also online and downloadable.

>>>4. Should I be worried about the lack of protein in my breakfast

meal?

I dont see a lack of protein in your " diet " . Your breakfast meal has protein,

as all foods have protein. Some vegetables are around 40% protein by calories.

Protein requirements are not " per meal " but per day and are averages.

>>How many here believe in Zone-style meal-balancing, where all

3 macronutrients are consumed at each meal?

There is no evidence whatsoever supporting Dr Sears recommendations. He

selectively picks and chooses data to support his theory, instead of basing his

theory on the data. In fact, the " overall " body of scientific literature not

only doesnt support his theories, most of it is in actual opposition to it.

Studies n the 40/30/30 ratio have actually shown higher insulin levels not

lower.

For a better book, try Roy Walfords, Beyond the 120 Year Diet.

Regards

Jeff

[Guest guest]

>>>As for supplements, if you're getting enough from food, you're just wasting

your money and more is not necessarily better.

The Medical Letter on Drugs and Therapeutics http://www.themedicalletter.com/,

which is highly respected within the scientific community, has updated its

supplement advice in light of recent research findings. The current issue

concludes:

**Supplements are necessary to assure adequate intake of folic acid in young

women and possibly of vitamins D and B12 in the elderly.

**There is no convincing evidence that taking supplements of vitamin C prevents

any disease.

**Women should not take vitamin A supplements during pregnancy or after

menopause.

**No one should take high-dose beta carotene supplements.

**A balanced diet rich in fruits and vegetables may be safer than taking vitamin

supplements. No biologically active substance taken for a long term can be

assumed to be free of risk. [Vitamin supplements: Who should take them and who

should not. Medical Letter 47:57-58, 2005]

[Guest guest]

>> As for supplements, if you're getting enough from food, you're just wasting your money and more is not necessarily better.

(http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-07/tu-tns071805.php)

Public release date: 19-Jul-2005

Contact: Siobhan Gallagher

617-636-6586

Tufts nutrition scientists say it is premature to focus on nutrient supplements over diet Authors urge caution in JAMA article: High dose nutrient supplementation may have more adverse consequences than anticipated BOSTON, July 19, 2005, 4:00 P.M. ET--In a special communication piece that appears in the July 20th issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), Alice Lichtenstein, DSc, senior scientist and director of the Cardiovascular Nutrition Laboratory at the Mayer U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts University and the Center's director and senior scientist, , MD, report that the most promising data on nutrition and optimal health outcomes relate to dietary patterns, not nutrient supplements. They further state that there are insufficient data to justify altering public health policy from an emphasis on foods and dietary patterns to one on supplements.

The authors emphasize that nutrient supplementation, particularly for certain at-risk populations, has an important place in health care. However, they point out that there is an important difference between observing associations between particular nutrients and health outcomes and detecting causal connections.

"Perhaps no better example exists than the disheartening results of the vitamin E intervention trials for the prevention of cardiovascular disease," says . Lichtenstein explains that although observational studies suggest positive effects, "we lack supporting evidence from intervention trials, and that is critical for making recommendations to the public."

Data are insufficient in other areas as well, according to Lichtenstein.

"Disease-nutrient relationships are by their nature very complex. Within the context of high dose nutrient supplementation, outcomes are frequently unexpected. Not only have some studies failed to yield positive results but, occasionally unanticipated negative effects have been observed."

The authors point out that some of the unanticipated findings from high dose single or nutrient cocktails may be because the levels used are much higher than those necessary to prevent deficiency disease. In one study, adding a nutrient antioxidant cocktail to a well established cholesterol-lowering drug treatment actually lessened the beneficial effect. "We still have a lot to learn about the use of high doses of nutrients. The important point is to prevent the cart from getting in front of the horse; we need to validate the science before there is wide scale adoption by the general public as we saw with vitamin E. We can no longer automatically assume there will be no adverse consequences," notes Lichtenstein.

In their overview of the existing literature, Lichtenstein and , both professors at Tufts University's Friedman School of Nutrition Science and Policy and School of Medicine note that their caution is "based on the lack of a complete understanding of nutrient requirements and interactions, and disappointing results of intervention studies with single nutrients or nutrient cocktails."

"The identification, isolation, and purification of nutrients in the early 20th century raised the possibility that optimal health outcomes could be realized through nutrient supplementation," write the authors, but this advance has been "a double-edged sword."

While the current expert opinion is that there is not enough evidence to justify emphasizing nutrient supplements instead of food and diet for maintaining good health, this topic remains under rigorous research, and new data is published regularly. Based on the available information, the authors say, "eat a diet rich in fruits, vegetables, low-fat dairy products, whole grains and fish."