Guest guest Posted January 2, 2001 Report Share Posted January 2, 2001 I was asked the following ? from a 1st time mom to be and I'd appreciate any feedback bc I don't have any info re delaying the vaccines, for I don't plan on vaxing my baby- ever. TIA! > > I have a question about immunization. How > much are the chances of negative > > reactions being decreased by waiting to > vaccinate your children? Does anyone > > know? And by waiting until what age? I read > through the sites that were > > linked in the previous vaccination post and > there was a few mentions of this > > decrease if you wait to vaccinate until your > child is older, but gave no other > > info as to how much or when to wait until. I > am pretty sure I won¹t vaccinate > > my children, but I am still in the process of > educating myself on this issue. > > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2002 Report Share Posted January 3, 2002 It is good to see that this has not caused a rift. This topic was brought up on another group board I am on and it went on for a month. We have a pediatrician in our group who put it basically the same way that you have Cate. The masses are vaccinated thus, allowing immunity to the unvaccinated. However if the child travels to other countries or to communities where immunization is not common they are then at risk. I have heard there are more than a few cases of plague that still manifest in remote parts of this country but because there are so few they are not considered outbreaks. Also when there is an influx of immigrants into your community your risk is heightened again. Too many variables and " what ifs " to take that risk. I am really impressed with the decorum of this group. I'm glad to be here. Barb D. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Cates3Gems@... Reply- Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 08:11:44 EST >I do know a lot more people have re-researched this and now have changed >their thinking. They do get their kids vaccinated. The reason so many >diseases are not seen is because of the wide population of people that were >vaccinated. One of those diseases is Smallpox. I know I too used to think >we were all over vaccinated. However, it is the TYPE OF VACCINATION used >that needs to be looked at. >A live vaccine is one that has shown to cause more problems. >I don't know about Arizona not having to have kids vaccinated and allowed to >go to school. Being a nurse in Az. I have not seen them able to attend a >public school without the major vaccinations! >Cate > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 Grace, I hope other people respond to this also with their comments. I used to do the homeopathic immunizations for families that chose to not do standard immunizations. I assume they worked. I don't recall any of my patients ever telling me that they later got one of the diseases. But this is only an assumption. The AANP (I believe Traub) published years ago a protocol for giving the remedies. I do not have that on my computer. Perhaps it is on the AANP website (anyone know??). Since studying the last several years with Dr. Gueniot I have changed my mind on immunizations and so I no longer recommend them. I prefer to treat the child in their entirety and so after managing any presenting symptoms, one MUST address their miasm. Since this will determine which conditions they will most likely get as the age (since it is a genetic predisposition as to how their vital force will express itself), the use of a plan to optimize this will also optimize immune function. So do all the obvious for kids and also treat the miasm is what I do. What do the rest of you do? D Thom Hello, I'm new to this chat group and new to drainage. Help would be greatly appreciated :} Does anyone feel confident about a homeopathic immunization protocol they have used for infants and children? Also, could you refer me to any useful resources on the topic. Does Dr. Thom have an immunization protocol or protocol to support the healthy development of the child's immune system? thanks in advance, Grace dela Cruz ND Vancouver BC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Hello, I will add my perspective on this tricky issue. What I have found is that when I explain to parents about the different types of vaccines, concerns re: having the illness vs. possible effects of the vaccine (eg. Hep , vectors of transmission and the whole idea that vaccines are trying to instigate specific immunity at an age when the body is not prepared to do that they start to get the message and understand the issues. I have not been hardnosed about this up till now but the more I learn about the negative effects in the body and the issue re: miasmatic influence due to vaccines the more conviction I feel for helping parents avoid this controversial political/fiancial conveyer belt. Often parents want me to tell them what to do and I always tell parents that it has to be their decision (I will give them the information) and if they decide to not vaccinate they can't simply sit back but need to take an active part in their child's health and be prepared to treat their illnesses with drainage etc. I also can't quite understand how a homeopathic vaccine kit would work (except for huge peace of mind - which is certainly valid) when if the person doesn't have exposure or the illness itself. I can see how it could be helpful during an illness or afterwards but my understanding of homeopathy is that unless their is an imbalance the body won't need or utilize that information. I could be wrong and if someone else has a perspective on the kits different than this please add your thoughts. The more I see in my practice children having health issues after vaccination, and my own experience in having the Hep B shots (ugh) but then purging them with the iso-vaccine homeopathic (yeah! - I vomitted bile after the third dose) the more fueled I am to become a stronger advocate against. Love to hear others' thoughts.... Polinsky immunization > Hello, > > I'm new to this chat group and new to drainage. Help would be > greatly appreciated :} > > Does anyone feel confident about a homeopathic immunization > protocol they have used for infants and children? Also, could you > refer me to any useful resources on the topic. > > Does Dr. Thom have a immunization protocol or protocol to > support the healthy development of the child's immune system? > > thanks in advance, > > Grace dela Cruz ND > Vancouver BC > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Thanks Cory, Great information Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 Hi Renate, welcome to the group. What you are saying is very interesting. I am an Infection Control Nurse and I must admit that I have never heard of the vaccinations having these as side effects. Do you have a reference - I would love to read about it. ? Some of the vaccines are produced in eggs so if you are allergic to or sensitive to eggs or sulphur in any way you would react with either hayfever or even diarrhoea. We have been talking about the cause of achalasia for ages and each of us have a unique combination of all sorts of the possible triggers. About half have had chicken pox, another group, but not all have had strep throats, some have some autoimmune disease but by not many, but none of us have all had the same thing. There are many theories but no consensus. To prove that achalasia was caused by vaccinations we should all 400+ have got it soon after vaccination. What I find puzzling is that the nerve damage is so specific. What makes it attack just the oesophageal nerves and no other? Good wishes, Joan Immunization Hi my name is Renate, I'm 27 and have had Achalasia since June 1998. Has anybody else linked this condition with an immunization? I had Hepatitis A and B immunization during my medical training and both have the side effects of possible chronic disease reaction ( Multiple Sclerosis, Reynaud's Syndrome - all degenerative/inflammatory nerve diseases; also autoimmune diseases can result ). I immediately upon receiving the 3rd booster for HepB got Hay Fever and I'm positive that Achalasia resulted from these too. Before that I had chron. diarrhea which was linked to a Polio vaccination. Has anyone else had autoimmune reactions to immunizations and/or Achalasia within 2 years of vaccination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 Well, for what it's worth, I got shingles within two weeks of a tetanus shot. Fortunately I got the medicine I needed wihin the 3 day time period and they went away in 2 weeks. That was LONG enough! > Hi my name is Renate, I'm 27 and have had Achalasia since June 1998. > Has anybody else linked this condition with an immunization? I had > Hepatitis A and B immunization during my medical training and both > have the side effects of possible chronic disease reaction ( > Multiple Sclerosis, Reynaud's Syndrome - all > degenerative/inflammatory nerve diseases; also autoimmune diseases > can result ). I immediately upon receiving the 3rd booster for HepB > got Hay Fever and I'm positive that Achalasia resulted from these > too. Before that I had chron. diarrhea which was linked to a Polio > vaccination. Has anyone else had autoimmune reactions to > immunizations and/or Achalasia within 2 years of vaccination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 > Hi Renate, welcome to the group. > What you are saying is very interesting. I am an Infection Control Nurse and I must admit that I have never heard of the vaccinations having these as side effects. Do you have a reference - I would love to read about it. ? Some of the vaccines are produced in eggs so if you are allergic to or sensitive to eggs or sulphur in any way you would react with either hayfever or even diarrhoea. > > We have been talking about the cause of achalasia for ages and each of us have a unique combination of all sorts of the possible triggers. About half have had chicken pox, another group, but not all have had strep throats, some have some autoimmune disease but by not many, but none of us have all had the same thing. There are many theories but no consensus. > To prove that achalasia was caused by vaccinations we should all 400+ have got it soon after vaccination. > > What I find puzzling is that the nerve damage is so specific. What makes it attack just the oesophageal nerves and no other? > Good wishes, > Joan yea one thing they also say that people have drink alot or smoke alot also may trigger it ... well i dont do any of those ... the vaccination theory is intersting , altho its been 4 years for me that i had any type of vaccination done .. and it was by the military as well .. maybe im just a rare case of something but i pretty much dont do anything .. and no one in the family has had it or realitives too .. so this is just kinda out of the blue for me ... i have had this since aug 03 but i was able to eat anything with only little bit of trouble , but it kicked in hyper drive in jan 04 .. and that was the point were i couldnt eat anything at all , and almost not drink too , but now im on meds till oct then i get the surgery done ... the only thing that i can think of that could of triggered it would be stress .. so now i count down the days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 wrote: Well, for what it's worth, I got shingles within two weeks of a tetanus shot. ... In grade school I had a reaction to a tetanus shot. It was probably one of the old horse serum shots and I probably had an allergic reaction to it. It is the only thing I know of that I may be allergic to. I was out of my mind crazy, but I didn't realize it, until something happened that terrified me. Then the adrenaline seemed to clear my mind. My sister on another occasion had the same kind of reaction to a tetanus shot. She doesn't have achalasia though. notan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 Joan wrote: What I find puzzling is that the nerve damage is so specific. What makes it attack just the oesophageal nerves and no other? Good wishes, Yes, it is puzzling. It may be that it is not attacking the nerves directly. It may be that they are being damaged because some supporting cells are damaged. One type of cell that may be a fit for this is,interstitial cells of Cajal (ICC). These cells are also found throughout the gut. They interact with nerves and smooth muscle and act as pacemakers of electrical signals. Read the information from the first link below. As you get into the report you will find boxes of links on the right side. The link " BOWEL OBSTRUCTION " will take you to a section that is of special interest for us. (Good to look at all sections of it). It discusses the blocking of murine (mouse or rat) small intestine with a plastic clip. After two weeks there were changes and losses in the electrical signals, and ICC were not found, in a section above the blockage. Where ICC cells were not found, cells that had some similarities to ICC, but were more like smooth muscle cells, were found. It is believed that these almost smooth muscle cells are the ICC cells but they have begun to change into smooth muscle cells (redifferentiate) and no longer function as ICC. When the clip was removed after two weeks, 30 days later, electrical parameters and ICC networks were partially restored. That reminds me of the experiment where they put bands on the LES of opossum and some time after they took them off there was some return of peristalsis. Now look at the information on the site for the second link bellow. In this case they caused damage to ICC in the myenteric plexus (Auerbach’s plexus) from inflammation by infecting it. That resulted in disordered electrical activity and abnormal peristalsis. As part of the recovery process lymphocytes moved in. In time the infection was overcome and ICC networks recovered and the lymphocytes move out. However, there was a marked increase in the population of macrophages in the myenteric plexus after the recovery. Now to put this together with some things I have discussed here before. What if you had inflammation of the myenteric plexus at the LES? You can get an infection most anywhere so it is possible. That could damage the ICC network there and the loss of electrical activity could perhaps cause the LES to have a problem relaxing. The problem relaxing acts like a blockage and ICC are damaged above the LES also, resulting in some loss of peristalsis. In time the infection is cured, but there is now an increase in macrophages in the myenteric plexus. Perhaps it is possible the lymphocytes and then the macrophages cause damage to the NO (nitric oxide) producing nerves by releasing too much NO by INOS. Now that these nerves are damaged the LES will still have a problem relaxing even though the infection is gone. The LES continues to act as a blockage and damage to ICC continues and so also damage to more nerves. Perhaps in time the immune system produces myenteric antiplexus antibodies to target the destroyed plexus parts for cleanup, which increase NO/INOS activity at the damaged plexus. The weaker your nerves and ICC are the more likely that could happen, which goes to the perfect storm idea I talked about before. Just theory notan Physiology and Pathophysiology of the Interstitial Cells of Cajal: From Bench to Bedsidehttp://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/282/5/G747 or http://tinyurl.com/6bl6o Pathology of Interstitial Cells of Cajal in Relation to Inflammation Revealed by Ultrastructure But Not Immunohistochemistry http://www.ingenta.com/isis/searching/Expand/ingenta?pub=infobike://asip/ajp/2002/00000160/00000004/art00036 or http://tinyurl.com/4624k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 The National Vaccine Information Center has a wonderful website www.909shot.com they are a national, non-profit organization. They also have plenty of links to related sites/info. sources. Everybody's immune system is different and I can imagine that the responses would be unique to each individual. Maybe some reactions could possibly be staggered over time?! This of course would be hard to prove : ) I was just wondering and thought it would be interesting to find out if anyone else had similar experiences. Thanks for all the responses. > Hi Renate, welcome to the group. > What you are saying is very interesting. I am an Infection Control Nurse and I must admit that I have never heard of the vaccinations having these as side effects. Do you have a reference - I would love to read about it. ? Some of the vaccines are produced in eggs so if you are allergic to or sensitive to eggs or sulphur in any way you would react with either hayfever or even diarrhoea. > > We have been talking about the cause of achalasia for ages and each of us have a unique combination of all sorts of the possible triggers. About half have had chicken pox, another group, but not all have had strep throats, some have some autoimmune disease but by not many, but none of us have all had the same thing. There are many theories but no consensus. > To prove that achalasia was caused by vaccinations we should all 400+ have got it soon after vaccination. > > What I find puzzling is that the nerve damage is so specific. What makes it attack just the oesophageal nerves and no other? > Good wishes, > Joan > > > > Immunization > > > Hi my name is Renate, I'm 27 and have had Achalasia since June 1998. > Has anybody else linked this condition with an immunization? I had > Hepatitis A and B immunization during my medical training and both > have the side effects of possible chronic disease reaction ( > Multiple Sclerosis, Reynaud's Syndrome - all > degenerative/inflammatory nerve diseases; also autoimmune diseases > can result ). I immediately upon receiving the 3rd booster for HepB > got Hay Fever and I'm positive that Achalasia resulted from these > too. Before that I had chron. diarrhea which was linked to a Polio > vaccination. Has anyone else had autoimmune reactions to > immunizations and/or Achalasia within 2 years of vaccination? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 I like the theory Notan ! I will take some time and read all the links over the weekend - life is bit hectic right now. By the way I also had a delayed reaction to a tetanus shot - it was also the horse serum variety ! Joan Re: Immunization Joan wrote: What I find puzzling is that the nerve damage is so specific. What makes it attack just the oesophageal nerves and no other? Good wishes,Yes, it is puzzling. It may be that it is not attacking the nerves directly. It may be that they are being damaged because some supporting cells are damaged. One type of cell that may be a fit for this is,interstitial cells of Cajal (ICC). These cells are also found throughout the gut. They interact with nerves and smooth muscle and act as pacemakers of electrical signals. Read the information from the first link below. As you get into the report you will find boxes of links on the right side. The link "BOWEL OBSTRUCTION" will take you to a section that is of special interest for us. (Good to look at all sections of it). It discusses the blocking of murine (mouse or rat) small intestine with a plastic clip. After two weeks there were changes and losses in the electrical signals, and ICC were not found, in a section above the blockage. Where ICC cells were not found, cells that had some similarities to ICC, but were more like smooth muscle cells, were found. It is believed that these almost smooth muscle cells are the ICC cells but they have begun to change into smooth muscle cells (redifferentiate) and no longer function as ICC. When the clip was removed after two weeks, 30 days later, electrical parameters and ICC networks were partially restored. That reminds me of the experiment where they put bands on the LES of opossum and some time after they took them off there was some return of peristalsis. Now look at the information on the site for the second link bellow. In this case they caused damage to ICC in the myenteric plexus (Auerbach’s plexus) from inflammation by infecting it. That resulted in disordered electrical activity and abnormal peristalsis. As part of the recovery process lymphocytes moved in. In time the infection was overcome and ICC networks recovered and the lymphocytes move out. However, there was a marked increase in the population of macrophages in the myenteric plexus after the recovery. Now to put this together with some things I have discussed here before. What if you had inflammation of the myenteric plexus at the LES? You can get an infection most anywhere so it is possible. That could damage the ICC network there and the loss of electrical activity could perhaps cause the LES to have a problem relaxing. The problem relaxing acts like a blockage and ICC are damaged above the LES also, resulting in some loss of peristalsis. In time the infection is cured, but there is now an increase in macrophages in the myenteric plexus. Perhaps it is possible the lymphocytes and then the macrophages cause damage to the NO (nitric oxide) producing nerves by releasing too much NO by INOS. Now that these nerves are damaged the LES will still have a problem relaxing even though the infection is gone. The LES continues to act as a blockage and damage to ICC continues and so also damage to more nerves. Perhaps in time the immune system produces myenteric antiplexus antibodies to target the destroyed plexus parts for cleanup, which increase NO/INOS activity at the damaged plexus. The weaker your nerves and ICC are the more likely that could happen, which goes to the perfect storm idea I talked about before.Just theory notan Physiology and Pathophysiology of the Interstitial Cells of Cajal: From Bench to Bedsidehttp://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/282/5/G747orhttp://tinyurl.com/6bl6oPathology of Interstitial Cells of Cajal in Relation to Inflammation Revealed by Ultrastructure But Not Immunohistochemistryhttp://www.ingenta.com/isis/searching/Expand/ingenta?pub=infobike://asip/ajp/2002/00000160/00000004/art00036orhttp://tinyurl.com/4624k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2008 Report Share Posted August 8, 2008 Dear Friends, The basic purose of immunization is to protect babies from preventable diseases and reduce infant and child mortality. I am reproducing some relevant info from National Health and Family Welfare Survey (NFHS III) for your perusal. According to the immunization schedule outlined by Government of India and the World Health Organization (WHO), all primary vaccinations, including measles, should be administered by the time a child is 12 months old. Children who received BCG, measles, and three doses each of DPT and polio (excluding Polio 0) are considered to be fully vaccinated. NFHS III data reports that only 36 percent of children age 12-23 months were fully vaccinated by age 12 months. Based on information obtained from a card or reported by the mother (‘either source’), 44 percent of children age 12-23 months are fully vaccinated and 5 percent have not received any vaccinations. Coverage for BCG, DPT, and polio (except Polio 0) vaccinations is much higher than for ‘all vaccinations’. BCG, the first dose of DPT, and all three doses of polio vaccine have each been received by at least 76 percent of children. Fifty-five percent of children have received three doses of DPT. Although DPT and polio vaccinations are given at the same time as part of the routine immunization programme, the coverage rates are higher for polio than for DPT (for all three doses), undoubtedly because of the Pulse Polio campaigns. Not all children who begin the DPT and polio vaccination series go on to complete them. The difference between the percentages of children receiving the first and third doses is 21 percentage points for DPT and 15 percentage points for polio. Fifty-nine percent of children age 12-23 months have been vaccinated against measles. The relatively low percentages of children vaccinated with the third dose of DPT and measles are mainly responsible for the low proportion of children fully vaccinated. As expected, vaccination coverage for each type of vaccine and for full vaccination is much higher for children for whom a vaccination card was shown than for the children whose vaccination information is all based on mother’s recall because no vaccination card was shown. As majoirty of people (hence children) in the country are in rura areas and immunization is provided to them through a vast network of PHCs and subcenters. Waht is tobe given and how many times and when are all well established in the priamry health area. As you can see from the data the proportion of children fully immunized is about 41% with wide variations from state to state. The lowest coverage is in Nagaland 21% (lower than even up UP's 23%) and Tamil Nadu showing the highest coverage at 81%. Hence the mute question is not whetehr somebody is following the immunization schedule or not but inspite of making all these vaccines free of cost by the governmetn, why the fully immnised children is less than 50%. What is coming their way to access the services available? What can be done to increase the coverage rate? Interestingly if you look at the data on partially immunised children, the proportion is quite impressive. That means people come in to the system and use servcies, but are not able to sustain the behaviour to complete the schedule of immunizations. The follow up could be weak by the health workers, timings of the clinics are not suitable in some other palces, mothers still are not yet comprehend fully the rsiks their children are subjected to by not completing the basic immunizations. I think immunization is more of a managent problem than a technical problem. Following the schedule is only a samll part of the immunization problem. But the alrger issue is what needs to be done to increase fully immunised children propoertion. Regards, Cordially yours Dr P.H. Rao Professor - Health ManagementAdministrative Staff College of IndiaBella Vista, Khaiaratabad,HYDERABAD. 500082IndiaPhone: 91-40-23310952Fax: 91-40-23312954 Explore your hobbies and interests. Click here to begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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